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8-Bit Scholar
Jan 23, 2016

by FactsAreUseless

This is madness

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Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Heath posted:

you kind of answered your own question with this tho. including any trigger warnings necessitates including ALL possible trigger warnings, because literally anything can be argued to be a trigger for someone. let's say you have a class that discusses sexual assault and put trigger warnings: sexuality, sexual assault, derogatory epithets, violence. then someone comes to class and flips poo poo that you didn't put up a trigger warning for bicycles because the girl that was assaulted was on her bicycle and some bitchmade idiot retard scraped their knee when they fell off a bike 16 years prior and now have outbursts of violent sobbing and now the school has to include a bicycle trigger warning on a class lecture on sexual assault. since "trigger warning" as a category is kind of a new thing there's no etiquette or style sheet on what constitutes an appropriate addition to the category. trigger warnings are treated equally by necessity across the board, which has the dual effect of minimizing legitimately traumatic things (like rape, racism, abuse) while elevating peoples' pet peeves to legitimacy (pomegranates, bicycles, rocks arranged to look like a dick & balls)

I dunno I feel like there's some logic breakdown at some point when you are making an equivalency between sexual assault or rape and falling off your bike and hurting your knee though and a decent person in charge should be able to draw the line in a reasonable place.

It's not that you're a special snowflake and deserve a warning, it's that some issues affect large numbers of people in a predictably negative way so they deserve special warning maybe before being discussed publicly. It's not reasonable to expect a person to be triggered so dramatically by mention of a bicycle, but it is reasonable to expect people to be uncomfortable if you're talking about genocide and showing images of mass graves.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
lmao at people concocting increasingly specific hypothetical scenarios where trigger warnings go too far

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
though i did have a prof once let people leave if they were too disturbed by Night and Fog, that coddling fucker

Decebal
Jan 6, 2010
Isn't exposure to a certain stimuli a way to get rid of phobias ?

Maybe they need to be "triggered" until the brain doesn't respond in such a way ? Nothing can have the same impact it had the first couple of times if you do it repeatedly.

ate shit on live tv
Feb 15, 2004

by Azathoth

Pretty sure that is a satire website.

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!

Decebal posted:

Isn't exposure to a certain stimuli a way to get rid of phobias ?

Maybe they need to be "triggered" until the brain doesn't respond in such a way ? Nothing can have the same impact it had the first couple of times if you do it repeatedly.

exposure therapy for rape has proven to be ineffective iirc. people didn't respond well to repeated rapes

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
Plus there's a lot of things that in the end come down to 'what would a reasonable person do' as decided by a court. It's not like our rules and things are always so black and white like that where it's like oh we have parental advisory warnings for cuss words and graphic violence now we gotta have em for every random little thing someone trips about.

Heath
Apr 30, 2008

🍂🎃🏞️💦

Moridin920 posted:

I dunno I feel like there's some logic breakdown at some point when you are making an equivalency between sexual assault or rape and falling off your bike and hurting your knee though and a decent person in charge should be able to draw the line in a reasonable place.

they should, but they also have concerns regarding liability and someone making a claim that their legitimate disorder/concern was ignored by the school. if as an institution you are willfully committing to the inclusion of trigger warnings, you're committing to that for all students, and there's nothing that designates that a burden of proof should be put on the victim (and it shouldn't be) to prove that whatever their trigger is is legitimately detrimental to their health & wellbeing

BexGu
Jan 9, 2004

This fucking day....

8-Bit Scholar posted:

This is madness

Its also fake! (That website is like The Onion for the military)

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Decebal posted:

Isn't exposure to a certain stimuli a way to get rid of phobias ?

Maybe they need to be "triggered" until the brain doesn't respond in such a way ? Nothing can have the same impact it had the first couple of times if you do it repeatedly.

okay but maybe it isn't on you to take up the mantle of deciding everyone gets to have therapy unannounced and out of the blue. Maybe you should not in fact make those decisions in such a blanket fashion for everyone else and instead just say 'hey we're talking about some sensitive issues regarding rape in this lecture just heads up.'

also done badly that can cause additional trauma which then makes it harder to get the person to recover from. Exposure therapy yes but that doesn't mean the best way is to toss them in the deep end and say good luck sink or swim fucker.

Heath posted:

they should, but they also have concerns regarding liability and someone making a claim that their legitimate disorder/concern was ignored by the school. if as an institution you are willfully committing to the inclusion of trigger warnings, you're committing to that for all students, and there's nothing that designates that a burden of proof should be put on the victim (and it shouldn't be) to prove that whatever their trigger is is legitimately detrimental to their health & wellbeing

tbh i think you're talking a bit out of your rear end on this.

like I said there's lots of things that come down to 'what is reasonable' legally and being angry about bicycles is not reasonable. It's not victim blaming to say your reaction is not one of a reasonable person and courts do it all the time.

Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Aug 25, 2016

Spunky Psycho Ho
Jan 26, 2007

by zen death robot

This area is actually pretty nice

ClamdestineBoyster
Aug 15, 2015
Probation
Can't post for 10 years!
I don't understand how ptsd is so common now. Like do they write a letter to all the allergy people saying they aren't going to scale back the botony program? :shrug:

ate shit on live tv
Feb 15, 2004

by Azathoth

Decebal posted:

Isn't exposure to a certain stimuli a way to get rid of phobias ?

Maybe they need to be "triggered" until the brain doesn't respond in such a way ? Nothing can have the same impact it had the first couple of times if you do it repeatedly.

Probably easier to just call people attention whores and then disregard their input.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

ClamdestineBoyster posted:

I don't understand how ptsd is so common now. Like do they write a letter to all the allergy people saying they aren't going to scale back the botony program? :shrug:

idk we have been at war with multiple countries for the better part of 2 decades now and the economy sucks assholes too so tons of young people join the armed forces

for one thing

Decebal
Jan 6, 2010

Moridin920 posted:

okay but maybe it isn't on you to take up the mantle of deciding everyone gets to have therapy unannounced and out of the blue. Maybe you should not in fact make those decisions in such a blanket fashion for everyone else and instead just say 'hey we're talking about some sensitive issues regarding rape in this lecture just heads up.'


So where do you draw the line ? Just at rape triggers or what ?

Heath
Apr 30, 2008

🍂🎃🏞️💦

Moridin920 posted:

tbh, speaking as someone with lawyers in my family, i think you're talking a bit out of your rear end on this.

like I said there's lots of things that come down to 'what is reasonable' legally and being angry about bicycles is not reasonable. It's not victim blaming to say your reaction is not one of a reasonable person and courts do it all the time.

okay, so what if it's something along the lines of an intense and debilitating phobia? i have a friend who is completely paralyzed by the mere sight of a spider, real or not, and freezes up completely if she sees one. if in a biology class the topic of arachnids comes up and a big ol' slide of a tarantula pops up on the screen without warning and it interrupts her ability to take notes/concentrate/breathe for the rest of the class, is the school liable for that? the school has no way to account for the specific subject of the trigger, what matters is the student's reaction to the trigger

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
i feel traumatized every time i pay attention to this election cycle lol



Decebal posted:

So where do you draw the line ? Just at rape triggers or what ?

I feel like GBS isn't the place to be deciding this but simply put there are experiences that are universally reviled yet experienced by many; getting raped, living through war/genocide, seeing people killed, etc.

It is reasonable for someone to be upset by those things so let's put some kind of something informing people before they just sit down and get hit with images of mass graves from Auschwitz.

Being upset by bicycles and demanding everyone change the rules surrounding bicycle discussion to cater to you is not reasonable because no one would expect such a reaction.

Decebal
Jan 6, 2010

Moridin920 posted:

idk we have been at war with multiple countries for the better part of 2 decades now and the economy sucks assholes too so tons of young people join the armed forces

for one thing

How come those WW2 guys were such badasses then ? No complaining, just hard work and putting people on the Moon! Maybe they would have whined as much but it was strongly discouraged and the country was better for it ! Harden the gently caress up

Applewhite
Aug 16, 2014

by vyelkin
Nap Ghost
Good. I'm glad of it, OP. Sounds like the folks at UoC know what college is all about.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Decebal posted:

How come those WW2 guys were such badasses then ? No complaining, just hard work and putting people on the Moon! Maybe they would have whined as much but it was strongly discouraged and the country was better for it ! Harden the gently caress up

it was called shell shock back then, or 'combat stress reaction.'

quote:

As the size of the British Expeditionary Force increased, and manpower became in shorter supply, the number of shell shock cases became a growing problem for the military authorities. At the Battle of the Somme in 1916, as many as 40% of casualties were shell-shocked, resulting in concern about an epidemic of psychiatric casualties, which could not be afforded in either military or financial terms.

fuck the ROW
Aug 29, 2008

by zen death robot
im seeking damages (scared by image of mice, spiders) to the tune of all your fuckin money noob

Frog Act
Feb 10, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 10 hours!
WW1 and 2 hosed like everybody on earth up for ~25yrs

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Powercrazy posted:

Pretty sure that is a satire website.
If a man insisted always on being serious, and never allowed himself a bit of fun and relaxation, he would go mad or become unstable without knowing it.


e:

8-Bit Scholar posted:

This is madness

Niice.

Moridin920 posted:

idk we have been at war with multiple countries for the better part of 2 decades now and the economy sucks assholes too so tons of young people join the armed forces

for one thing

Unless it's vets going around with cateye glasses and purple hair, I think you're misattributing the cause.

Frosted Flake fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Aug 25, 2016

Heath
Apr 30, 2008

🍂🎃🏞️💦

Moridin920 posted:

Being upset by bicycles and demanding everyone change the rules surrounding bicycle discussion to cater to you is not reasonable because no one would expect such a reaction.

herein lies the problem, you only insist that it isn't reasonable, but a trigger is fundamentally an emotional and not rational reaction. you can't be like "no, your trigger isn't reasonable and we don't have to accommodate it" simply because you say it isn't reasonable for someone to become violently ill at the sight of pomegranates, because there's no reason involved here.

and just so we're clear i completely agree with you but these are the kinds of arguments people make for having trigger warnings at the first place. i think UoC is making the right choice here in refusing to include any trigger warnings, but giving a preamble "hey, these topics will be discussed in this class and your participation or lack thereof will necessarily impact your grade" is, imo, due diligence done on the part of the school

Decebal
Jan 6, 2010

Moridin920 posted:

it was called shell shock back then, or 'combat stress reaction.'

Yeah, but they kept it a private thing like it should be ! A disease should be kept private since it doesn't make you special.

Blue Raider
Sep 2, 2006

ClamdestineBoyster posted:

I don't understand how ptsd is so common now. Like do they write a letter to all the allergy people saying they aren't going to scale back the botony program? :shrug:

could you imagine if ppl these days fought in the napoleonic wars

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Heath posted:

and just so we're clear i completely agree with you but these are the kinds of arguments people make for having trigger warnings at the first place.

I mean sure but see how far "you don't get to decide what is reasonable" gets them in reality when there is actually a legal term (with Latin and all) denoting 'reasonable person' and tons of jurisprudence and documentation surrounding it.

At some point the administrator needs to say 'this is good, but this is going to far' and that's better than simply ignoring both sides or going one way or another in the extreme.

quote:

i think UoC is making the right choice here in refusing to include any trigger warnings, but giving a preamble "hey, these topics will be discussed in this class and your participation or lack thereof will necessarily impact your grade" is, imo, due diligence done on the part of the school

Eh just semantics at that point really. I'll agree trigger warnings is kind of a really dumb phrase though.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:

could you imagine if ppl these days fought in the napoleonic wars

I'd really, really like to see if this phenomenon is happening in countries with the draft. Are Swiss and Austrians mode resilient because they spent their late teens early twenties digging trenches or climbing the alps?

Blue Raider
Sep 2, 2006

i guess life back in the day was hard enough that people didnt have the luxury to worry about bullshit

Decebal
Jan 6, 2010

Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:

could you imagine if ppl these days fought in the napoleonic wars

"Sarge, my hair was frozen to the ground again when I woke up. This is so unfair !" "I have to stand at attention in rank while 9 and 12lb artillery rains down on us ?!"

DeusExMachinima
Sep 2, 2012

:siren:This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!:siren:

Put this loser on ignore immediately!
The French shot tons of people for shell shock/cowardice in WW1. I'm not saying that was the right move back then but it would be the right move for anyone with a tumblr nowadays. Anyway that's my opinion, laters.

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:

i guess life back in the day was hard enough that people didnt have the luxury to worry about bullshit

yeah I mean that's why most of these people are bourgie white folk

real poor and oppressed people have real problems to worry about

Heath
Apr 30, 2008

🍂🎃🏞️💦

Moridin920 posted:

I mean sure but see how far "you don't get to decide what is reasonable" gets them in reality when there is actually a legal term (with Latin and all) denoting 'reasonable person' and tons of jurisprudence and documentation surrounding it.

At some point the administrator needs to say 'this is good, but this is going to far' and that's better than simply ignoring both sides or going one way or another in the extreme.


Eh just semantics at that point really. I'll agree trigger warnings is kind of a really dumb phrase though.

i think the issue is that "trigger warning" has connotations that can't really be divorced from the PTSD therapy from which it comes, it's just been coopted by idiots on the internet to such a degree that it has become extremely broad and you can't delineate what is and what isn't a justified trigger without 1) asking the victim to justify it, which has moral implications and 2) setting off a bunch of other people who feel their education or ability to freely and openly discuss a topic is diminished by the presence of someone who was victimized (or, what the alt-right types think happens when a trigger warning is given.) i don't think anyone is really and truly opposed to any kind of notification that sensitive topics are going to be discussed, but the phrase "trigger warning" sets people the gently caress off for some reason.

and simply ignoring both sides is what we've always done up until very recently. educational neutrality has always been an issue but i don't see any way to tactfully approach this and still maintain that neutrality (how that works out in reality remains to be seen, ofc)

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless
I'ma just post a headline that popped up on Bloomberg here bc lol:

"Father of Teenage Hedge Fund Manager Accuses Regulators of Thuggery"


gotta get daddy to help you out even when you're managing a hedge fund these days lmao

Zombiepop
Mar 30, 2010
Wtf happened to the internet? like when I was a scrub tween the hot poo poo was to de-sensetize yourself by looking at disgusting hosed up poo poo online?
like anti-triggering, and It worked, now I can only get an erection from really sick poo poo. :pervert:

JediTalentAgent
Jun 5, 2005
Hey, look. Look, if- if you screw me on this, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine, you rat bastard!
There was an article about a year ago when all the protests were going on and a community college was asked why their school wasn't experiencing the same thing.

The response was akin to, "Our students are too busy with jobs, families, school, commuting, etc. to have the time to stop to protest."

Moridin920
Nov 15, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

JediTalentAgent posted:

There was an article about a year ago when all the protests were going on and a community college was asked why their school wasn't experiencing the same thing.

The response was akin to, "Our students are too busy with jobs, families, school, commuting, etc. to have the time to stop to protest."

Occupy was a bunch of bourgie white people for the most part too, for that exact reason.

no wonder it failed miserably.

Frosted Flake
Sep 13, 2011

Semper Shitpost Ubique

I have a serious question about this stuff: Do some of these concepts create examples of themselves?

All of the Poly/Genderqueer/misc. whatever people I know are in Social Work, Womyns Studies, or Psych. So, if these people stayed in their small towns and never heard of these concepts, would they still be genderqueer? Or would they just be a sort of tomboyish farmer's daughter and marry that good Thompson boy from down the lane?

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Spunky Psycho Ho
Jan 26, 2007

by zen death robot
Occupy Wall Street had a huge problem because the cops wouldn't serve them vegan lunch when they got arrested

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