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George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


tithin posted:

Consideration: is it possible you're both town who are tripping over each other looking for scum?

consideration, is it possible that we're all town and we should just dance and sing forever and ever?

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EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


tithin posted:

Consideration: is it possible you're both town who are tripping over each other looking for scum?

what kind of question is that to ask the best mafia player in the game, mocco ravo, if not the whole community?? it is a foolish question and were you not australian that is were you not of the large island continent known colloquially as "the Down Under" I would suspect you were a fool, but because you are from that island continent I know that it is in your culture to be foolish due to your inhospitable climate and criminal ancestry!

obviously it is possible we are both town but that could be the case for any case ever made in a mafia game, but is there something about the substance of my case or his defense that suggests we are both town? because if there is not or if you are unwilling to say as such then perhaps this question would be best left unsaid in the entirety that is this question has wasted my time and yours because it is one without substance!!!

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


TMM watching a movie is a pretty poor basis for voting him

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


mwahhahahaha

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


Birdstrike posted:

TMM watching a movie is a pretty poor basis for voting him

But you're voting me?

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


Birdstrike posted:

TMM watching a movie is a pretty poor basis for voting him

that is another false interpretation of my case against TMM! and by false I mean that it is not true, that is there are true interpretations and that is an untrue one, and by interpretations I really mean just one interpretation, singular, without plural, because my posts are very clear and there can only be one way to reasonably interpret them, and you have chosen a way that is not the correct one, it is incorrect, and therefore it is false!

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


TMMadman posted:

But you're voting me?

huh?

Max posted:

Oh, I knew I forgot something

Let's turbo Tomm again

##vote Tomm

Birdstrike posted:

okay ##vote tmm

poo poo. sorry. Im sorry
im trying to remove it

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

Ralsei, The Lonely Prince, is now your ally.

The power of fluffy boys shines within you.


EccoRaven posted:

what kind of question is that to ask the best mafia player in the game, mocco ravo, if not the whole community?? it is a foolish question and were you not australian that is were you not of the large island continent known colloquially as "the Down Under" I would suspect you were a fool, but because you are from that island continent I know that it is in your culture to be foolish due to your inhospitable climate and criminal ancestry!

obviously it is possible we are both town but that could be the case for any case ever made in a mafia game, but is there something about the substance of my case or his defense that suggests we are both town? because if there is not or if you are unwilling to say as such then perhaps this question would be best left unsaid in the entirety that is this question has wasted my time and yours because it is one without substance!!!

I'm actually Scottish, I just live in Australia, for now.

As for your question, it just seemed to be a possibility, you're both relatively earnest in your defence / offence, and I can understand his argument, and I can understand yours (even though yours seemed a little forced, it looks like you're probably doing it not through any particular belief that he's scum, but as a way to force conversation?)

Kindly reiterating my request for you to drop the PR please though.

iajanus
Aug 17, 2004

#GOAT


Oh hey this game has started. Morning, everyone. Town checking in. Sorry for getting drunk at the video game bar in the city last night and forgetting to check this.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


TMMadman posted:

But you're voting me?

lol you should know birb's vote on you was a joke vote

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


##uncote

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


ah sprry ##unvote

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


tithin posted:

Kindly reiterating my request for you to drop the PR please though.

while I appreciate the politeness in your request, that is to say you have asked something of me with the appropriate formalities associated with good breeding in such a way that suggests my previous assertion as to your nationality was erroneous, and ordinarily when one uses such polite terms one is inclined to assent to the request unless the request is unreasonable or impossible to be performed, I must just as politely decline the request, since the manner of posting in which I am engaging must be seen until its better end, that is to say I will continue to speak in this way until the game reaches its end or until I am removed from the game, which though the game would continue, barring some unforeseen ability for removed players to return to the game at a later date, it would from my perspective be as if the game had ceased to be since I would no longer be a part of it as a consequence of being removed from it.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


Uh oh, I think birbs been infected by gaspy!

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

Ralsei, The Lonely Prince, is now your ally.

The power of fluffy boys shines within you.


Tommunist posted:

who is scum then tithin

nfi, i am curious why <ax is voting you though, did i miss something in the meta and you're his policy vote?

tithin
Nov 14, 2003

Ralsei, The Lonely Prince, is now your ally.

The power of fluffy boys shines within you.


EccoRaven posted:

while I appreciate the politeness in your request, that is to say you have asked something of me with the appropriate formalities associated with good breeding in such a way that suggests my previous assertion as to your nationality was erroneous, and ordinarily when one uses such polite terms one is inclined to assent to the request unless the request is unreasonable or impossible to be performed, I must just as politely decline the request, since the manner of posting in which I am engaging must be seen until its better end, that is to say I will continue to speak in this way until the game reaches its end or until I am removed from the game, which though the game would continue, barring some unforeseen ability for removed players to return to the game at a later date, it would from my perspective be as if the game had ceased to be since I would no longer be a part of it as a consequence of being removed from it.

Ok, this is art.

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


TMMadman posted:

Uh oh, I think birbs been infected by gaspy!

Not so much infected as we combined in the manner of the best transformer, Superion

(also I just wanted to use that @dril joke)

imgay
May 12, 2014

dog


You guys ever play Destiny at all?

Tommunist
Dec 11, 2013



tithin posted:

nfi, i am curious why <ax is voting you though, did i miss something in the meta and you're his policy vote?

jhoke from last soldier game

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


Yeah I reread and I don't think TMM is scummy. Mountain out of a molehill, Ecco.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


I could totally understand why someone would post going to a movie in jokephase. The thread was mostly idle chat anyways. Now with all this discussion flying around, if someone did the same thing, I think the context would be different and it would look quite a bit scummier.

Juchero
Feb 15, 2008


Wedge Regret

imgay posted:

You guys ever play Destiny at all?

I played up until before The Taken King came out, then quit because 1. It was around the time my youngest was born and I didn't have time and 2. The whole Red Bull DLC scheme really pissed me off which is appropriate because red bull tastes like piss.

imgay
May 12, 2014

dog


I only played vanilla and got bored of it

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

Yeah I reread and I don't think TMM is scummy. Mountain out of a molehill, Ecco.

luckily that is but one point in my case against TMM, and though all cases are ultimately matters of interpretation, that is they come down to judgment over how they are to appear and what would be more likely to be done by scum or by town, and though I obviously disagree that it is not a valid point against him since I created the case and I would not have done so if I did not believe in what I was saying, I ask how you feel about my other two points, because those points have also been developed and discussed by me, Mocco Ravo, and I would appreciate your input on them not only so that I can shore up any weaknesses you find in those points but also because it lets me and others hear your own thoughts and determine the sincerity of them which helps us and yourself as well in a reciprocal way, unless you are scum in which case it only helps us and not you!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


Sure Ecco. Both your first and second points refer to this post:

TMMadman posted:

Alright, for a serious case, I don't really like Ecco's posting. While it isn't impossible to read, the style just makes my eyes want to glaze over it. I don't really think gimmick posting is very helpful past jokephase, so I hope Ecco doesn't plan on doing it for the full game.

Also, this post doesn't sit right with me because MMT is responding to my post about how there are no joke votes with a vote that I think is obviously a joke vote, so I don't know why Ecco feels the need to try and clarify it.

Your first point regards how criticizing your PR avoids attacking the substance of your posts. He clearly read your posts and pointed out something he found scummy, and his reasoning re: your pr reads genuine to me.

Your second point about misrepresenting you I don't really get. I thought your post was weird too, because MMT made a very clear joke post.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


BottleKnight posted:

He clearly read your posts and pointed out something he found scummy

he did not, unless you are referring to him disliking the style of my posting entirely, which my original case said is illegitimate because the style of my posting is not scummy and cannot be unless it is being used to hide or obscure my meanings and that is not happening since by TMM's own repeated admission my meanings and intentions are very clear.

BottleKnight posted:

Your second point about misrepresenting you I don't really get. I thought your post was weird too, because MMT made a very clear joke post.

EccoRaven posted:

- it does not matter if MMT's post is a joke or not, again you mischaracterize my point against you! what matters is that you presented MMT's vote on you falsely in order to incriminate me further, that is to say you fabricated evidence in order to construct a case against me, which is scummy not only because I am town and obviously so but because it was just as obvious why MMT was voting for you whether a joke or sincerely!

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


EccoRaven posted:

he did not, unless you are referring to him disliking the style of my posting entirely, which my original case said is illegitimate because the style of my posting is not scummy and cannot be unless it is being used to hide or obscure my meanings and that is not happening since by TMM's own repeated admission my meanings and intentions are very clear.

I'd like you to quote the posts where I've said your meanings and intentions are clear.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


repeat: the substance of MMT's vote was responding to TMM asking for the jokevote phase in this game to be long and robust. it was presented as a joke due to the presence of emoticons, but the underlying substance upon which she voted was legitimate because wanting a robust jokevote phase is inherently scummy, and so I asked her if it was a joke or if it was serious.

that is irrelevant to my point against TMM regarding that vote, because TMM presented MMT's vote as "she voted for me because I said there were no jokevotes" when she did nothing of the sort and that can be clearly seen from placing her vote after quoting TMM saying that he wanted a more robust jokevote phase, which again is scummy.

because TMM manufactured the reason why MMT voted for him, it read to me that he was faking content this game, which has been the thrust of my case against him this whole time!

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


TMMadman posted:

I'd like you to quote the posts where I've said your meanings and intentions are clear.

TMMadman posted:

While it isn't impossible to read, the style just makes my eyes want to glaze over it.

TMMadman posted:

Why shouldn't we talk about it? If multiple people bring up the fact that they don't like the way she is posting, don't you think Ecco should think about changing the style?

TMMadman posted:

You seem awfully worried about someone bringing up your posting style. Do you really expect anyone to read all that and make sense of it?

TMMadman posted:

I'm not responding to it because it's complete garbage.

you have continually, that is repeatedly, that is have multiple times over a period of hours, said that you dislike the style of my posts rather than the substance, and that as I have said, again repeatedly, is scummy.

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


EccoRaven posted:

repeat: the substance of MMT's vote was responding to TMM asking for the jokevote phase in this game to be long and robust. it was presented as a joke due to the presence of emoticons, but the underlying substance upon which she voted was legitimate because wanting a robust jokevote phase is inherently scummy, and so I asked her if it was a joke or if it was serious.

that is irrelevant to my point against TMM regarding that vote, because TMM presented MMT's vote as "she voted for me because I said there were no jokevotes" when she did nothing of the sort and that can be clearly seen from placing her vote after quoting TMM saying that he wanted a more robust jokevote phase, which again is scummy.

because TMM manufactured the reason why MMT voted for him, it read to me that he was faking content this game, which has been the thrust of my case against him this whole time!

Hmm. Rereading that exchange between the two of them I guess I agree that TMM is stretching an interpretation, but I don't find it an intentional misrepresentation. I mean, it could be I suppose, but when I first read MMT's wordless emoticon vote I also thought it was a jokevote riffing on TMM talking about jokephase. So if anything you read far more into it than I did, which explains why you asked her!

So, I guess I'll say this. When I originally read MMT's post, I was more in line with TMM that it was a jokevote (but not as far as you say he went with that interpretation). So I found your post asking MMT weird. But now that you've cleared up your read I find both your reads genuine.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


EccoRaven posted:

you have continually, that is repeatedly, that is have multiple times over a period of hours, said that you dislike the style of my posts rather than the substance, and that as I have said, again repeatedly, is scummy.

Except that's not what you've been saying, so try again. Here is what you said, I've bolded the important part:


EccoRaven posted:

he did not, unless you are referring to him disliking the style of my posting entirely, which my original case said is illegitimate because the style of my posting is not scummy and cannot be unless it is being used to hide or obscure my meanings and that is not happening since by TMM's own repeated admission my meanings and intentions are very clear.

So, do you want to try actually posting the several times I've stated that your meanings and intentions are clear?

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


EccoRaven posted:

you have continually, that is repeatedly, that is have multiple times over a period of hours, said that you dislike the style of my posts rather than the substance, and that as I have said, again repeatedly, is scummy.

You dodged the request lol.

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


TMMadman posted:

Except that's not what you've been saying, so try again. Here is what you said, I've bolded the important part:


So, do you want to try actually posting the several times I've stated that your meanings and intentions are clear?

it is called inference. you are correct in that I overstated how you felt about my posting, however many others said that my posting was clear to them, including our Dear Leader, and so I thought your assessment of my posting was as well. that was a mistake on my part and I humbly apologize, that is I would be humbly apologizing if it meant my case against you was significantly weaker as a result of my mistake. my case however remains strong because you explicitly saying my posts are clear is NOT the thrust of my case against you, the point is you were attacking me exclusively for the style of my posts, that is for their length, rather than explaining why those posts were actually bad, that is incorrect and also fake. that to me was a very fake opinion. yes my posts are longer than most because I am explaining my thoughts more fully and giving them the time to develop in ways that most players do not, but there is no way you can actually say my intentions within my posts are not clear.

Bernstrike
Oct 30, 2008

Bern To Run


did mojo jojo post like Zizek? because I kind of feel that's what ecco is going for

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


repeat:

- TMM is not saying that my posts are unclear (he is not saying they are clear either). he is saying that my posts are difficult to read because of their "style," that is because of their length and the manner in which I am explaining my thoughts more fully so that there is no risk of misunderstanding or miscommunication. whether that is true or untrue, it is SCUMMY to suggest that that reason alone is enough to think someone must be scum. if he thinks I am doing it to hide my intentions then he is mistaken since my intentions are very clear with every post I make as a direct result of my expanded posting style this game, and it is a belief so unreasonable that I believe it is fake, that is to say it is deliberately presented to look genuine but is in fact fabricated, and that is something scum would be more likely to do instead of town and that therefore makes me think TMM is more likely scum than town.

TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


EccoRaven posted:

it is called inference. you are correct in that I overstated how you felt about my posting, however many others said that my posting was clear to them, including our Dear Leader, and so I thought your assessment of my posting was as well. that was a mistake on my part and I humbly apologize, that is I would be humbly apologizing if it meant my case against you was significantly weaker as a result of my mistake. my case however remains strong because you explicitly saying my posts are clear is NOT the thrust of my case against you, the point is you were attacking me exclusively for the style of my posts, that is for their length, rather than explaining why those posts were actually bad, that is incorrect and also fake. that to me was a very fake opinion. yes my posts are longer than most because I am explaining my thoughts more fully and giving them the time to develop in ways that most players do not, but there is no way you can actually say my intentions within my posts are not clear.

You know, except for the fact that I did explain why the style is bad:

TMMadman posted:

Why shouldn't we talk about it? If multiple people bring up the fact that they don't like the way she is posting, don't you think Ecco should think about changing the style?

If she's town and the way she's posting is annoying people then her message is going to get lost because people are just going to skip right over her posts.

While it's not impossible to read, I find the style distracting and several others have voiced the same opinion. People are going to skip over posts they have trouble reading and that means your message is going to get lost in the shuffle.

So do you want to backtrack some more?

imgay
May 12, 2014

dog


keepin it 100, im not gonna read any of the eco blocks

EccoRaven
Aug 15, 2004

there is only one hell:
the one we live in now


TMMadman posted:

You know, except for the fact that I did explain why the style is bad:


While it's not impossible to read, I find the style distracting and several others have voiced the same opinion. People are going to skip over posts they have trouble reading and that means your message is going to get lost in the shuffle.

if people skip over my posts because they do not want to read posts then that is on them, it is not my job to spoonfeed the lazy and intellectual disinterested except insofar as I wish people to read my cases and to vote with them, but I have made the judgment that players who are unwilling to read my very clear posts simply because they are longer and explain my thoughts more fully are unlikely to be interested in playing mafia at all and so they are not the audience to whom I am trying to appeal but rather to those who wish to actually win the game by hunting for mafia and removing them from the game that is to say the town!

furthermore if players believe I am scum simply for posting in this fashion then they are making an unreasonable stance, which again is my point against you, TMMadman, known scum!

George Kansas
Sep 1, 2008

ad astra per proletarii


TMMadman posted:

People are going to skip over posts they have trouble reading and that means your message is going to get lost in the shuffle.

Okay, since you prefaced your original post with "Alright, now for a serious case," how is this scummy?

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TMMadman
Sep 9, 2003

He will be injured, but in the World Series he will be raised from the DL. And the Indians were filled with grief.


EccoRaven posted:

it is called inference. you are correct in that I overstated how you felt about my posting, however many others said that my posting was clear to them, including our Dear Leader, and so I thought your assessment of my posting was as well. that was a mistake on my part and I humbly apologize, that is I would be humbly apologizing if it meant my case against you was significantly weaker as a result of my mistake. my case however remains strong because you explicitly saying my posts are clear is NOT the thrust of my case against you, the point is you were attacking me exclusively for the style of my posts,that is for their length, rather than explaining why those posts were actually bad, that is incorrect and also fake. that to me was a very fake opinion. yes my posts are longer than most because I am explaining my thoughts more fully and giving them the time to develop in ways that most players do not, but there is no way you can actually say my intentions within my posts are not clear.

Also, to the bolded part here is the summary of your case:

EccoRaven posted:

IT IS NOT GARBAGE, HOW DARE YOU CALL IT GARBAGE!! I, Mooooocco Ravo, will not stand for you to call it garbage when it is anything but garbage! garbage is smelly and sticky and can easily be discarded, but my case against you can-NOT be easily discarded for it touches on your behavior this game and explains why that behavior is more likely to be from scum than town!

the case summarized below with shorter bullet points that are easier to read for people whose time is too precious to fully appreciate the broader points that I discussed above in ways that were again very clear to anyone who bothered to read them!

- you continually attack the way I speak this game over the substance despite repeatedly saying that it is very clear what I am saying!!

- you falsely presented MMT's vote on you, which you then used that false light to case aspersions against me, Mocco Ravo, the best scumhunter in the game! this is bad because it is scummy because it is something scum would be more likely to do than town because scum must fake all their content!

- you announced you would be leaving the thread for a few hours on a Saturday afternoon, which was not necessary and in truth was quite awkward since a secure town player would not feel the need to make such an excuse but an insecure scum would!

The very first point of your summary is that I've repeatedly said that it's very clear what you're saying.

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