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SMT Mara is the best thing about the entire series
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Mar 13, 2017 09:20
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So when do we get the sidequest in which we have to fetch a variety of demon dicks so Mara can complete the dickship which will take him home (  )?
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Mar 13, 2017 10:33
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Seraph was a lifesaver for the final boss fight.
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Mar 13, 2017 10:48
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Oh yeah, is there any context or reason why Mara has such a rockin theme song in Imagine? Not complaining in the slightest, just deathly curious.
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Mar 13, 2017 11:22
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He's a boss fight. That's basically it, really! I don't know why it's such incomprehensible gibberish though (but I can understand MOST of the more comprehensible parts; "big and meaty" indeed...) or why it has a death metal breakdown that also samples Amazing Grace. I can, however, make a very reasonable guess why it was remixed for the 2014 Valentines Day event battle theme. 
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Mar 13, 2017 11:29
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If you were dumb like me and didn't have Dragonatrix's encyclopedic knowledge of the demons and stuff in the game, Seraph made the Law route a lot easier. You can just coast through most fights once you have him with Big Bang. I used him and Huang Long and I think Amaterasu as my grinding team and just farmed Trumpeters on B8F. Good times.
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Mar 13, 2017 15:52
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I liked the invisible floors part actually, the trick is to actually look at the upper screen to see the landmarks in the distance to get a clue about where you are supposed to go. Nice timing for that puzzle since you'd normally look at the upper screen while exploring more often at the beginning of the game but by this time players usually focus on the minimap.
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Mar 13, 2017 22:19
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I still think Riot Gun Copy's attack powers was typoed or something and is meant to be 500. It's supposed to deal so-called "Severe" damage like Riot Gun does. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Mar 13, 2017 |
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Mar 13, 2017 22:45
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 A Land Bringing About Life Alright, so this is what our loadout is going to be for Mem Aleph. I normally don't bother with this, but for Mem Aleph it's pretty important to have no weaknesses where possible. Very, very important. You could arguably swap the Fimbul/Dragon Vest for the Faerie Armor because of its Curse immunity but that's too risky. ABSOLUTELY HAVE THE DRAGON RING. This one is not negotiable at all. yet  Remember this thing? We got it after Delphinus for getting the first four Black Boxes. This is not mandatory for Mem Aleph, it's just a very, very good idea to use this! Mem Aleph is one of like three fights where it is genuinely useful.  So, let's do this.   We must give our all to defeat Mem Aleph, holder of our vast energies. I thank you, Hitonari. I would have been unable to come this far without you. Had you not saved me so long ago, I could not have brought this body's destiny to fruition... ...Beyond victory lies the world of the Lord. Now, let us go.> You passed through the door with Zelenin. Eternal Throne   Hitonari... As things stand, you cannot see Mem Aleph. But with my hymn... Law Theme Eternal Throne I really don't know how to feel about Mem Aleph's design. It's certainly memorable and all but I dunno. After Maya and Jimenez's third style, she just... is kind of a disappointment I guess?   This power... This is the work of the Three Wise Men!? Those cursed beings! How dare they forget their obligation! Do they think to prevent us demons from reclaiming the Earth at any cost!? Hitonari... You must defeat Mem Aleph! Now is your chance! And we desire a world shackled by the God of order's hand even less! You would connect the world's spirits to seal away we demons, we gods of old! Human who we once walked with... You have chosen not the path of revival, but the path of death! But I shall stand against you!   Mother Mem Aleph Take The Shield, Raise The Spear  Okay so, Mem Aleph? In a rare moment for this game: she's not a complete cakewalk! In fact, if you fight her legit she will probably kick your rear end at least once. Probably. There IS some degree of luck to it, but that's because she has so, SO many moves that are straight-up lethal.  She has exactly zero single target skills, so uh that's fun. Things like Ice are, well, exactly what they sound like.  A very, very, VERY powerful multi-target skill that blasts the gently caress out of everyone once.  Stronger than the dynes, stronger than Maya's Gates, they Just Hurt. Their attack names are even just the element - she's just using the primordial element itself to attack you. That is kind of terrifying AND kind of awesome!  In a rare moment, Mem Aleph is possibly the only fight where having demons with a healing spell (that is not Salvation) is helpful. Kind of. Hitonari alone CAN deal with it if you have enough Bead Chains.  But it's not just the regular ol' attack elements she has, oh no. She has Expel and Curse as well for good measure.  Except, as you would expect, they're both loving terrifying on paper. Die For Me!, reminder, has an 80% chance to work at base. Light and Dark are 100%. So, yeah, leaving that open at all is a TERRIBLE idea! You might be thinking "oh but what about Sacrifices?" They do help, sure, but they only proc if the Dragon Ring's Endure has already been used. You don't want to waste the Dragon Ring on these.  Oh right, but she doesn't just have her own unique skills (of which she has more). She just so happens to also have this from Asura and Asherah real casual like.  Also Disaster Cycle. It might be tempting upon seeing this to ignore the Dragon Ring for the Supple Ring to avoid that random chance of Hitonari getting Petrified but DON'T DO IT. NO. BAD. Also bad? Buffing and debuffing.  You can kind of maybe get away with it for a little while, but it's really not worth the hassle. With any buffs or debuffs in play at all, she can throw out a Nocturne reference to do a Silent Prayer. And also heal for less than 9% of her max HP. I don't know why it's 607 but it's always 607 for some bizarre reason. She has 7000HP so I really don't get it.  Great Flood is also a casual reference, albeit this one is Biblical thetruegentleman posted:In fairness about the Great Flood attack, it's actually not exclusive to the bible: for China, there's the myth "Great Yu Controls the Waters", India's Manu (who escaped the flood courtesy of Vishnu), Greece's Zeus killing everyone who didn't hide in a chest at some point, and Hawaii has the goddess Pele, which is a strange case of the flood helping to create the Hawaiian islands (by making them habitable) on top of also being an uncontrollable flood. Oh and it's multi-target Almighty damage with a baked in Sukunda. It could be worse, I suppose. OH WAIT IT IS.  Mother's Kiss is the most dangerous attack she has by a mile and a half. It's random number of hits that also randomly target. The amount of times it can hit? 3 to 8. loving hell. do you maybe see now why you want the dragon ring? yes its for this The one small mercy to Mother's Kiss is that it is just good ol' Phys damage and not Almighty for some bizarre reason. I dunno, but at least that means its resistable.  So, yeah, that's Mem Aleph. A fight with actual teeth for once. Odd how she has exactly one skill for every element except Gun, huh... Hmm, I wonder... Oh, resistances? Uh, she's immune to Gun, Expel, Curse and all ailments. That's it.  End Chaos Theme I suppose in the end that wasn't TOO bad, really... No... I... still... Did you defeat her, Hitonari!? Mem Aleph is...> You can hear a voice from somewhere...    > The space around you began to distort!  ...Mem Aleph is a Mother Brain foetus? Uhhh...   MY SOLE DESIRE IS TO CRUSH YOUR SPIRITS INTO ATOMS... ...AND DISAPPEAR INTO THE AIR.  Empty Mem Aleph Take The Shield, Raise The Spear  Of course she has a second form. At least this IS a separate fight so the Dragon Ring is refreshed if it needs to be. And it's even more important than ever here. MUCH MORE IMPORTANT. Not JUST because she's a lot more happy to use Mother's Kiss without issue or care here.  Empty Mem Aleph has all the exact same moves as Mother Mem Aleph, but that's somewhat expected. She also has 9000 HP and her resistances are a bit different here: she reflects Phys and Gun, is immune to Expel, Curse and all ailments and... is Weak to Fire...? What?  So, this is what Gibo Eyes looks like in combat. It doesn't tell you if something IS a good idea, but it tells you what is nullified, drained or reflected.  Like s-- wait, WHAT? She's not immune or anything to Wind what's... Empty Mem Aleph is a barrier change boss. gently caress. She reflects two elements and makes up for it by being weak to a third. And it IS an actual genuine weakness. It's also really obvious what her weakness is from the reflects. If you look at the element order on the bottom screen/status bar/etc, she is always weak to the one to the right of her reflects: Reflects Elec and Wind = Weak to Phys Reflects Phys and Wind = Weak to Gun (hello best-case scenario) Reflects Phys and Gun = Weak to Fire Reflects Gun and Fire = Weak to Ice Reflects Fire and Ice = Weak to Elec Reflects Ice and Elec = Weak to Wind There are two things floating around about when she changes: every turn and whenever she uses a special skill. These are both wrong. She changes every I think 6 turns (obviously the first turn doesn't count towards this). That's it.  This is the skill that some people claim makes her do a barrier change. You can see for yourself how wrong that is, so I don't know how this became a commonly claimed thing! Anyway, Mem Aleph is a pain of a skill. It picks one of the three alignments and autoforces all demons of that alighment back into your stock. How very annoying. It's not a big respite despite seeming like it, because this leaves you VERY vulnerable. Very, very vulnerable.  Mainly to this. MA is insanely dangerous and there is shitall you can to prevent it or anything. It's her ONLY single-target skill across both fights. It has no element and does proportional damage. It deals 100% of the target's current HP. It then HEALS Mem Aleph for the exact same amount done. The only real saving grace here is that it CAN miss, at least. It also happens to be both a thing she can do whenever AND also her counter to using a Mirror. So, uh, don't do that.  And unlike, say, Waking Dream she can target anyone with this. Mother's Kiss is dangerous and can gently caress you up but that's survivable. This isn't. If you don't have the Dragon Ring('s Endure left) and this targets Hitonari? You lose, game over, try again.  But that's all she has that's new here. A barrier change gimmick, two new moves and the decency to add a weakness albeit a revolving one. MA adds an implicit timer, even moreso than Disaster Cycle existing does, which is kind of annoying especially since she can just decide that you lose whenever she wants. Beyond that, if you don't get oneshot, you can probably survive. Probably. Or you can just do what I'm going to do later and NOT give her a fair fight. That also works. You'll see... End Silence WITHOUT ME... THE EARTH WILL... HAAAAH... BE STOLEN BY THAT ARROGANT GOD...    Morale Thank you, Hitonari. Now we can create a beautiful Earth...> Light is shining in from somewhere... > The light enveloped you...!   You have finally fallen. You have at last atoned for the sins of that body. Tadano, Zelenin. You have done excellent work in breaking the eternal curse. How beautifully your spirits shine!  The fear of the demons' invasion... The destruction of the foolish humans... It shall all vanish. By law and order shall the spirits play... By law and order shall the spirits play... By law and order shall the spirits play... Let us go now... to the start of our next journey.  It's really weird how for the back half of the game, even on the Law route no less, Mastema was completely MIA save for that one bit in Grus and the actual ending. What the heck, man?  We now possess all the keys to the new world. The Exotic Matter, the Cosmic Eggs... And you, Zelenin, who knows the Lord's hymn. The threat of demons shall be no more and humans shall truly be saved, to reach a new zenith... I shall go and inform the Lord of this glorious moment. Farewell... May we meet again in the new world. We entered the Schwarzwelt as an investigative team, and through the trials we endured... We received the guiance of the Holy Spirit to save mankind.  Now, Hitonari. Unleash the power you hold. The new... eternal earth filled with light shall be wrought. The World of Law  So, now we use the Vanishing Point for one last time. Hopefully this time it'll actually work properly. The World of Law It starts off mostly the same as before save for one minor difference...  Hitonari and Zelenin are stood outside what remains the Red Sprite... and Hitonari has taken his helmet off? Uhh, what?  Man, the Cosmic Eggs are about the size of a Cadbury's Cream Egg at a generous estimate.  I figured they'd be bigger than that considering they're a key to creating an entire world.  But regardless, the four float on over to the Vanishing Point...  And zoom on in.  The weird purpley stuff vanishes and is replaced with this rapdily expanding aura of light. Silence It begins to leak out of the Schwarzwelt itself.  ...And then the Schwarzwelt begins to rapidly expand?!  Fortunately it's not as bad as it seems as as the Schwarzwelt is then ungulfed by the blue aura which then continues to spread ever onwards.  Before it overtakes the entire world and now the blue marble is a very accurate moniker... Scepter of Justicerecommend proclick  Cue the credits...? Um, that was rather sudden and out of nowhere, huh. The credits just go on for a while showing us 1 part of each sector (the Blue Jet for Antlia, Mitra's throne room for Bootes etc.) and then a few shots from the ending we just saw.  More important is that after the credits are done, we get the rest of the ending.  > The sacred power annihilated the invading demons and erased the Schwarzwelt... > From there, it continued to engulf human civilization.    All has become as our Lord on high wishes it. Humans will no longer fight and snarl at each other... And my body, reborn like this world... It shall stand in the center of the people and live on eternally in the world of our Lord on high. Law Theme > The skyscrapers became altars to commune with God. > Zelenin stands in the center of these altars...   Silence And with that, we've finished Strange Journey, hurray! It wasn't really all that strange a journey in the end. One frought with interesting decisions, bad ideas and an attempt to cram in too many themes and just neglect and ignore them beyond the most token of efforts but it was something.  But wait, there's more!  We do have New Game+ to contend with, and it's going to make that as painless as possible at least. Good thing too, because it has some unique content including half of loving Grus god dammit.  It took a long while to get through the first time, but on a second cycle onwards? Well, with this many unfair advantages (that I shall proceed to ignore for any new content) it goes by much, MUCH quicker.  One ending down, two to go... Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 17:55 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 07:54
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It's hard to get pumped up by a final boss that is just laying on the floor like they're waiting for dinner to be served. But seriously, what a ludicrous fight. Please utterly destroy Mem Aleph next chance you get. (It's not a spoiler to say there will be other times you fight her, right?)
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Mar 14, 2017 13:19
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This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:31
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NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. Have you played Tales of Berseria?
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Mar 14, 2017 13:41
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NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. Did you really not feel the uncanny undercurrent during the whole thing? Every person on Earth dressed in white and singing praises is just not natural.
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Mar 14, 2017 13:43
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NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. "A world where everyone is forced to think like me is the ideal world." - NikkolasKing and Tallgeese, 2017
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Mar 14, 2017 15:35
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NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. Are you loving serious? That is not a good ending. Mission complete, you've successfully erased free will and now everyone's a holy zombie. The Lord thanks you. No one is against it, because they're either brainwashed or dead. Yay! Dragonatrix posted:
"Not" indeed. Blaze Dragon fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 16:47
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NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. you are a strange strange man, but i guess the eternal trick of fate is that you have the free will to have this opinion unrelated, but i hate mem's fivehead, it looks weird, bad weird not good weird i do like her second form tho, thats the good kind of weird
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Mar 14, 2017 17:06
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So I guess everyone just prays to the God of Order all the time now? That seems like a...shallow life and a sad ending to humanity.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:18
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SweaterGear posted:So I guess everyone just prays to the God of Order all the time now? That seems like a...shallow life and a sad ending to humanity. Hello and welcome to SMT Law!
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Mar 14, 2017 17:19
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Strange Journey doesn't present its neutral route until right before locking you to your ending. Until then, the schwarzwelt engulfing the Earth is treated as an inevitability unless you side with Law, and Mastema is one of the few helpful characters that doesn't act like a jackass. Compared to Jimenez and Louisa, Zelenin and Mastema are much more reasonable. In fact, many of the law dialogue options also sound like they would be neutral answers in other SMT games, because the alternatives sound just plain worse. Brainwashing people, while loving terrible, is arguably more humane than straight up slaughtering them. And the ending just a few ministries short of 1984 is probably better than the field of corpses Louisa tries to sell you as a good thing. By the time Gore shows up and tells you that there is another way, you can't turn back on Law. And so you get to brainwash all your friends into husks of their former selves and give YHVH the power to cherrypick who lives and who dies. Humanity goes out not with a bang but with a whimper. A better written game would have something to say here about how people can be fooled into giving up everything that makes them human out of fear, loneliness or uncertainty. Strange Journey is not that game, but I appreciate that at least you can read it that way. NikkolasKing posted:This ending made me perfectly satisfied with my choice of going Law for my introductory SMT game. Everyone lived happily ever after, the end. Everyone living happily ever after. posted:I, too, am perfectly satisfied with the systematic genocide of people who disagree with me.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:21
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MA and Mother's Kiss are just nasty. Mem Aleph is kind of bullshit because of the sheer number of ways she can simply decide "no you lose now" but for some reason I didn't mind the fight all that much.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:26
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I wasn't sure if I wanted to reply but gently caress it, let's have a serious talk about dumb video games.mandatory lesbian posted:you are a strange strange man, but i guess the eternal trick of fate is that you have the free will to have this opinion GimmickMan posted:A better written game would have something to say here about how people can be fooled into giving up everything that makes them human out of fear, loneliness or uncertainty. Strange Journey is not that game, but I appreciate that at least you can read it that way. It is the beauty of human free will that we can give up that free will if we so choose. It's not about being fooled or deceived. Some people simply like it. There's nothing wrong with finding security or happiness in submission to some authority. Now of course Law has genocide and brainwashing and I don't approve of that. But as far as I know "a lot of people die" is just how most SMT games end. All I can do is follow which side makes the best argument, which is why I went with Lucy in Nocturne. As you just pointed out, Neutral makes no real argument in this game and Chaos is no real option. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 17:34
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In fairness about the Great Flood attack, it's actually not exclusive to the bible: for China, there's the myth "Great Yu Controls the Waters", India's Manu (who escaped the flood courtesy of Vishnu), Greece's Zeus killing everyone who didn't hide in a chest at some point, and Hawaii has the goddess Pele, which is a strange case of the flood helping to create the Hawaiian islands (by making them habitable) on top of also being an uncontrollable flood. It's actually a pretty clever choice, assuming the devs knew about any of that.
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Mar 14, 2017 17:37
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They almost certainly did, honestly. Some of it I did as well, but I'm just a big ol' dumb and really like looking at this one particular tree rather than checking out the entire forest. (Just gonna casually edit that in if you dont mind) Blaze Dragon posted:"Not" indeed. Somehow missed that in the like four passes this update took for Various Reasons. Fixed no Lotus Aura fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 17:54
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NikkolasKing posted:I wasn't sure if I wanted to reply but gently caress it, let's have a serious talk about dumb video games. Only one person made that choice though. For everyone else they were robbed of free will.
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Mar 14, 2017 18:25
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That's true of absolutely every route. Note also that the ending does not actually say everyone else was killed - only returned to a shapeless existence... whatever that is supposed to mean. It's unusual in that one would expect them to be more blunt. I'm going to assume they all turned into Unknowns. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 19:03
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Hunt11 posted:Only one person made that choice though. For everyone else they were robbed of free will. I just chalk that up to one of those SMT things that can't be helped. If we were really absolutely weighing which one was 'not as bad' between Law and Chaos, then I guess I'd pick the former too. I just think it's weird when someone talks of it like it's something to be cheery about. Especially when like Strange Journey itself doesn't seem to be trying all that hard to sell you that 'at least some good has come of this'. eternaldough fucked around with this message at 19:09 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 19:06
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thetruegentleman posted:In fairness about the Great Flood attack, it's actually not exclusive to the bible: for China, there's the myth "Great Yu Controls the Waters", India's Manu (who escaped the flood courtesy of Vishnu), Greece's Zeus killing everyone who didn't hide in a chest at some point, and Hawaii has the goddess Pele, which is a strange case of the flood helping to create the Hawaiian islands (by making them habitable) on top of also being an uncontrollable flood. It's also mentioned in the epic of Gilgamesh as part of the backstory. So yeah, the concept is pretty old.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:06
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freshlybaked posted:I just chalk that up to one of those SMT things that can't be helped. I point out that we already have an example of what happens to people affected by the hymn, and they don't exactly seem unhappy with it. Just think of it as an ending in which you are high 24/7, which if it were presented as such would probably cause opinion to flip into "OH YEAH I WANT THIS" immediately, hah.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:09
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NikkolasKing posted:Now of course Law has genocide and brainwashing and I don't approve of that. But as far as I know "a lot of people die" is just how most SMT games end. All I can do is follow which side makes the best argument, which is why I went with Lucy in Nocturne. As you just pointed out, Neutral makes no real argument in this game and Chaos is no real option. If mass murder goes for all endings and all we have to go with are arguments, then Chaos is at least honest with itself and everyone else. Law pretends to take the moral high ground and acts like all of the horrible poo poo it pulls is just breaking a few eggs to make an omelette.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:10
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Tallgeese posted:I point out that we already have an example of what happens to people affected by the hymn, and they don't exactly seem unhappy with it. Not that I would ever choose to shape the world like that, but I would probably prefer if the angels and Zelenin constantly talked like a stoner. (Which in some ways, I guess she already does if you use your imagination?)
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Mar 14, 2017 19:13
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Tallgeese posted:I point out that we already have an example of what happens to people affected by the hymn, and they don't exactly seem unhappy with it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
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Mar 14, 2017 19:16
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quote:Stockholm syndrome is considered a "contested illness," due to many law enforcement officers' doubt about the legitimacy of the condition.[4] Oops. Stockholm syndrome is about as valid as the concept of the midlife crisis. It was made up after the fact to neatly explain, funny enough, a "lack of" submission to authority. Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Mar 14, 2017 |
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Mar 14, 2017 19:18
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Tallgeese posted:Oops. I expected you to understand that what I was saying via pithy quote was that psychologically breaking someone to the point that they're happy is considered a bad thing because "happiness" is not intrinsically good, but I think you're just an idiot
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Mar 14, 2017 19:27
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And there are some who would make the argument that psychotherapy is getting clients to do that and think they came up with it. Just because you attach strong words to it does not make it so.
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Mar 14, 2017 19:32
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Tallgeese posted:And there are some who would make the argument that psychotherapy is getting clients to do that and think they came up with it. Just because you attach strong words to it does not make it so. I can't.... There is a loving world of difference between the two, you deliberately obtuse idiot.
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Mar 14, 2017 23:56
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More pertinent than Stockholm syndrome, those affected by the song have literally no choice other than to be happy with it; that is kind of how the song works.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:21
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Doesn't seem to work on everyone, judging from the ending. Rather unfortunate, that.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:49
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The crew of the Red Sprite and the other ships were tasked by the United Nations to save Earth from the Schwarzwelt. The other teams died so the Red Sprite are the only ones left to do anything about this planet wide threat. One faction of demons said that they should rule and slaughter everyone, another faction said they should rule and subjugate everyone. At the very end, a third option arises that said humanity can end the Schwarzwelt by itsellf. Picking Chaos or Law is straight up failing the mission and letting all of humanity suffer. Neutral is completing the mission and saving humanity. If one person makes a choice that affects the world, then the choice that doesn't plunge most of humanity into different stripes of hell has to be the best. It's that simple.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:54
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I recall that the general idea of hell involves suffering. I don't see that on display - seems to be quite the opposite.
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Mar 15, 2017 00:58
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Tallgeese posted:I recall that the general idea of hell involves suffering. I don't see that on display - seems to be quite the opposite. If there's no one left alive, is anyone suffering?
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Mar 15, 2017 01:45
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