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Can we just not have this discussion? Don't get me wrong, I love arguing over pointless things that don't matter as much as the next guy, but this is honestly just getting annoying. Tallgeese likes the Law path, the rest of us are Neutral. That's everything we need to know and there's no reason to continue further.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:04
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serefin99 posted:Can we just not have this discussion? Don't get me wrong, I love arguing over pointless things that don't matter as much as the next guy, but this is honestly just getting annoying. Tallgeese likes the Law path, the rest of us are Neutral. That's everything we need to know and there's no reason to continue further. Nah son. "The rest of us" don't like the Neutral path. Hell it was the most boring on SMTO. I loved it. It was just...there. Like all the neut paths in the SMT games amirite?
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Mar 23, 2017 17:07
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Tallgeese posted:Hmm? That was your whole point. The question is whether he was lying the whole time or if it was a character switch that is never hinted at anywhere else. Yes, you do, considering you have neglected to mention the rest of the conversation after that, either because the implications of it were too difficult for you to grasp, or you're a gimmick poster. Mastema: You were attacked by Asura in the blighted lands, but I do not think that is the case now... However... You may be encountering the problem man has always faced. Zelenin: And that is...? Mastema: You see, daughter of man, humans are creatures I cannot understand. Why do you rely so on "trust"? You believe there is virtue in trust, that it has the power to produce good results, but... Why are you not more hesitant to rely on such an uncertain thing? Trust comes from the freedom of the heart... And the human heart is susceptible to errors. Basically, Mastema is saying that humans cannot be trusted and must be forced to be 'good'. You know, the part you happened to leave out. There is zero contradiction between him being a manipulative poo poo and him convincing Zelenin that trust is a human flaw and that force is required to make humans be obedient to God and 'good'. The Mattybee fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Mar 23, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 17:08
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Do you want to edit that out given the, for once, actually polite post on the top there, or do you want me to respond?
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Mar 23, 2017 17:11
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Tallgeese posted:Do you want to edit that out given the, for once, actually polite post on the top there, or do you want me to respond? Given that you have a long history of your law gimmick posting... no, not really.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:18
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No to which? You are being unclear. Also... I'm kind of touched you went that far to track down my posts. It's cute, but also disturbing. Especially when the first link doesn't actually have any sort of arguing in it.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:28
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You shouldn't get so angry when making an argument with Tallgeese. There is no point to arguing with him unless both people are having fun.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:30
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Docahedron posted:Does everyone not realize this is a Japanese RPG that is infamous for (1) making GBS threads on the Christian idea of God every opportunity (2) making any Chaos route the "better" one (to angsty teens but that's another story entirely) (3) making absolutely no sense when it comes to continuity, logic, or...anything, ever? it's more making GBS threads on the jewish idea of god
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Mar 23, 2017 17:30
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Haven't you heard? There's a goon who...likes...the law path
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Mar 23, 2017 17:30
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BlazeEmblem posted:You shouldn't get so angry when making an argument with Tallgeese. There is no point to arguing with him unless both people are having fun. Thank you! Dear Lord, where's Blind Sally when I need them?
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Mar 23, 2017 17:32
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Honestly I much rather argue with Tallgeese as at least he is willing to do more then just make a statement about law being awesome. In a more general meta way it feels appropriate for SMT game threads to be filled with the same arguments as everybody believes that this time they will be able to convince everybody else that their side was right.
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Mar 23, 2017 17:39
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Docahedron posted:Haven't you heard? There's a goon who...likes...the law path yeah, it's me also good lp, i'm playing catch up atm but i like it so far
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Mar 23, 2017 18:25
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I can't wait to have this argument a hundred times again when we get to the neutral ending.
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Mar 23, 2017 18:55
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Ages ago in the original Strange Journey LP thread I remember seeing Tallgeese's posts and thinking "oh, it's some sort of weird RP gimmick poster where they were hit with the mind control song". And I for one commend the effort it takes to commit to such a one-note gimmick for years and years and years no matter how exhausting it is for anyone to ever look at, read, or deal with.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:31
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the incredible gimmick of "liking a route in a video game i don't like"
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Mar 23, 2017 19:43
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I like the Law route in this game. The endless disingenuous stanning for it is exhausting.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:49
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neongrey posted:Ages ago in the original Strange Journey LP thread I remember seeing Tallgeese's posts and thinking "oh, it's some sort of weird RP gimmick poster where they were hit with the mind control song". And I for one commend the effort it takes to commit to such a one-note gimmick for years and years and years no matter how exhausting it is for anyone to ever look at, read, or deal with. It's not actually effort when it takes approximately 2 sentences to rile up certain goons about videogames. Really it comes down to Tallgeese: I like thing. Other Guy: *extended paragraphs of "no you're wrong because you're not part of the groupthink"* Tallgeese: I still like thing. Others: CONFORM! CONFORM! The internet as a whole is like this though, so.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:50
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Yeah nah this is the toned down version of his posting and it's still a lot of 'this is the best because of circular logic that only works if you take it as being best going into it and I am going to have this argument at every possible moment'. It's exhausting. If it were just about liking the law route and wanting to defend it there's any number of other people who also have liked this route and liked it well enough to speak in its favour.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:55
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Really, the thing I am offended about is the notion that I put any amount of effort into anything.
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Mar 23, 2017 19:59
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Docahedron posted:It's not actually effort when it takes approximately 2 sentences to rile up certain goons about videogames. I don't give a poo poo about this argument, but I find it hilarious that the CONFORM! CONFORM! side in your simplified conversation is the one talking against the Law path.
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Mar 23, 2017 21:00
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mandatory lesbian posted:it's more making GBS threads on the jewish idea of god It does a really poor job of it, speaking as a jew That's mostly because I don't think japanese media gets judaism at all
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Mar 23, 2017 23:50
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If I recall correctly, just after World War 2, the only thing many Japanese thought about the Jewish people were "they make lots of money, we should emulate what lets them make lots of money". Everything else was kind of secondary, what with reconstruction and all. Which, to be fair to Japan, is not exactly far removed from a lot of Westerners' thinking... Tallgeese fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Mar 24, 2017 |
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Mar 23, 2017 23:56
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 Now that we've done a violence on Mastema, there's not really all that much left to do. We'll just zoom on down to the bottom of Horologium and see Mem Aleph.  Chaos Theme   I gotta go get my final orders, too. The angels tried to stop us, but looking back... they didn't put up much of a fight, huh? ...There's still one that didn't show, though... C'mon, let's go. To Mem Aleph...> You passed through the door with Jimenez.   What you hold in your hands are undoubtedly the four Cosmic Eggs. You have fulfilled your duty. I'm glad you're happy, Mother Mem Aleph. We're always with you... The human souls who gnawed away at the Earth shall be eradicated... And humans shall regain their true, vibrant selves. On that day, we demons will also reclai our strong and beautiful forms. When humans are beautiful... So will demons be. Demons alone... humans alone... Neither can exist on Earth by themselves. We've always been taught that demons are the enemy, but in fact, they're an inseparable part of us. So, Mother Mem Aleph... Can you tell us what we need to do next? We're done collecting the Cosmic Eggs... Yes. I shall give you your final order. When it is complete, the wish we demons have held so long shall be granted.> Mem Aleph took a deep breath...  Their overwhelming power will remove the cursed ones and change the face of the Earth. It will become a place worthy of the beautiful ancient gods. The gate...? Ahhh, the Vanishing Point, right. I get you. Take this orb. You have three already. With this final key... The gate shall open, revealing the way to Earth. The final Exotic Matter, huh...? I, too, have one final thing that I must accomplish. I must entrust this orb to you. I... shall disappear. But only for a short while. When the Earth has been restored... I will be there.  > The four Cosmic Eggs began to shine...  For us to be able to reshape the Earth the way it should be... We have to send our reborn Mother to the Earth. C'mon, Lance! To the Vanishing Point! Let's create a world of free souls!We'll head to the Vanishing Point in a while, but first... we have to go back to Grus. There's something we still have to do there. The Land Where The Seed's Memories Lie Buried In particular, we need to head on over to where Grendel was in the Phase Shifter B Sanctum. He's still here, just... stuck as an Unknown. > The creature that was once a demon is moaning an indescribable moan... Chaos Theme> You can hear a voice from somewhere...   I have been waiting for you to return to this place.  You seem to have reduced my cohorts to jelly with that song, but... You've earned the right to see me. Come, then. I shall be waiting for you there. That is, if you wish to sign with me and gain tremendous power...No reason to not just immediately zip on over to Maya's old room.  In answering to the call of my chaotic brethren, I have come! So you've come, praiseworthy human who hopes to bring about a world of chaos... Hrm... Humans can't be taken lightly. You have potential. Alright. There's a favor I'd like you to do for me. Our goal is the restoration of the ancient world. And you know, surely, there are some who are trying to prevent it. That's right... the angels. They haven't made any drastic moves up to now, but this time it's different. They're planning something outrageous... And I want you to put a stop to it. I'd go myself, but the angels are moving sooner than I thought. I tried manifesting in this world a little quicker, but I'm still not quite stable. Update's borderline mandatory in-game reference to Nocturne? Check. You'd rather have me in my perfect form, wouldn't you? Of course. Yes! Exactly! Then will you accept the job? Yes. Good answer. If you can stop whatever those angels are up to... But it's your choice. That place you call sector Horologium... Go there now. I'll be along once my form stabilizes. Silence I'll make a note of where the angels are on that thing. Fortunately, we know where that is and can get there very easily. It's the exact spot where Seraph was made before after all. Let's just take a casual walk on over. A Land Bringing About Life  Let us begin the ritual. Things do play out very, VERY, slightly different this time though. We get a chance to intervene and stop Seraph from existing.  Though, uh, that does nothing in practice. drat it.  After that everything plays out the same until Seraph itself exists.  Lance... I have seen thy deeds through the eyes of many an angel... I had hoped that thy spirit would be holy, but in the end, thou art an example of thy cursed species. Receive the judgment of my flames and return to dust! Herald Seraph Vehement Rage So, Seraph... can be a pain in the rear end, or he can be a complete joke.  Y'know, cause he has Big Bang. Which is More Powerful Megidolaon. And this is with him debuffed! Not fully, but still. He's not dumb enough to use Holy Wrath though, sadly. Probably a good thing all things considered!  Instead he just Debilitates. Because Big Bang isn't strong enough as it is, I guess!  So, yeah, he's a Seraph. Weak to Ice, resists Phys and Gun, drains Fire. He has 2200HP so this fight is probably going to be quick regardless of the outcome!  End A Land Bringing About Life  Well, don't that beat all. Still, I'm surprised they brought out a Seraph. Sorry I made you do all the hard work, but... Guess I was worried for nothing. Hahaha... It all worked out. Now then... here's your reward. It's pretty nifty, if I do say so myself. Now then, as you can see, I'm back in my perfect form. You and me, raising hell... get me? Yes. Good to hear it! And thus was formed the greatest force ever for chaos and violence! I'm counting on you to hold up your end. Now let us go... to the world overflowing with energy! A free Mara is pretty nice, I dunno.  Mainly because we can make him actually good this time around. No fusion level limit after all. ...Really still weirds me out that he has a Phys skillset but his best stat is Magic. Mara please.  Peacemaker IS the best gun. Moan Bullet, highest Attack of all guns, Grateful One is 175 Power ST Gun damage which makes it the best thing for that. Not much point to it now but hey. Biggest downside is that its Chaos only so in practical terms Meteor Dragoon is better. Second biggest downside is that I forget to equip it. I am a genius. Anyway, Eridanus! Vanishing Point! Let's go! I do remember to equip the Dragon Ring, though, yes. Silence This Vanishing Point will become a gate to Hell. But there'll be no torments or prisons for us there... this gate'll set our souls free. We'll establish a beautiful world where might makes right!  You will not open that gate! There will be no world of demons created today! ...You... So the wannabe angel shows her face...! Why will you not accept the perfect guidance of our Lord? It was difficult to reconcile my desire to save everyone with His wishes, it is true... Law Theme  The evil soul is rotten down to the foundation. No hymn can absolve it... You don't even realize how utterly under God's thumb you are. If that's bliss to you, I can't help you there. But we're not so weak that you can take us out with borrowed power, I guarantee. One of us is gonna be eradicated from this world, but which one? Wanna test it, Zelenin? Use that opportunity to take her down!  Pillar Zelenin Take The Shield, Raise The Spear  So, Zelenin.... is no Mem Aleph that's for sure. Hell, she's barely comparable to Jimenez. And that's a matchup I think she'd lose. Quick reference, she has 10,000HP, resists Gun and reflects Elec. Except not really. She's ALSO a barrier change boss, but it's less important or relevant than with Mem Aleph; those resistances are just her default stats (she starts with no weakness but adds one later oops). It's explictly tied to one of her skills in this case, so that's nice at least.  Megido Storm is arguably her best attack and, uh, it's Electric elemental. Probably a bit of a goof on her part, yes.  Requiem is marginally more interesting since it's an instant death skill. It's very inaccurate though, since it's Almighty elemental. That just means you can't Tetraja it. Whatever. It also causes her weaknesses and resistances to change. Nothing quite like her using this and then a follow-up Riot Gun smashing for over 5000 damage. Yes, really:  That's okay but we can (and will!) do better.   And Sinner's Song is... her last unique attack. It's multi-target Almighty damage with a chance to Charm. Much like with Mastema's Great Lament I've never seen the Charm actually work so, uh, good job there I guess.  Her last actual attack is Wave of Death. You probably don't remember, but we have seen this before; Ouroboros used it in her second fight.  So, all-in-all Zelenin's really not difficult. The Chaos route is, by far, the easiest one yeah. End Morale Pretty embarrassing way to go out, Zelenin. You all got together and sang hymns to God... probably felt like you were part of something bigger. Hah! What a load of it! You weren't any bigger! You just lost yourself...!> Jimenez walked closer...  Right, Lance? We came here to solve the mystery of the Schwarzwelt... But what we cound was an even stronger bond between demons and humans. Can you see it yet? Maybe not, with that Demonica still on. But I can see it. Just past that giant gate... Release it! Set it free! The power of the Schwarzwelt...!  Bestow this power, this life, of the Schwarzwelt... ...to the Earth that cries out in pain. And I... The World of Chaos The World of Chaos And with that, we're just about done yet again.  It's really immediately obvious that this cutscene is completely identical to before...  Except everything that had a blue aura now has a red one instead.  It makes this bit look kind of cooler at least? I think so anyway. Sort of has more weight.  This "everything" does include the expanding Schwarzwelt of course. Scepter of Justice And then credits etc. screenshots from each sector, part of the CGI scene... Silence Then the actual ending part of the ending. > Its power covered the Earth in an instant...  > After this great cataclysm... > The power of creation will rebuild a new world. > A world full of life, ruled over by demons... Chaos Theme Once the Earth is purified by the demons, it'll regain its power. Yep, those who are supposed to die will die... that's the way of the beautiful world of old. As they revert to their divine selves, our world will regain its former power. Under demon rule, the days of training one's body and mind will start. Now c'mon, Lance! To our home, pulsing with life...! > They descended upon the Earth as gods of power, freedom, and hope. > There are no fallen humans left there to bring ruin...   EndI'm kind of disappointed that Jimenez's cool third design wasn't visible anywhere in there. Pillar Zelenin was explicitly mentioned AND visible in the Law ending after all.  Ah well, that's two worlds created... See you next mission!
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Mar 24, 2017 02:12
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drat, it's like the demons combined Evangelion with Warhammer to create a world that's somehow extra lovely .
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Mar 24, 2017 03:14
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As is usual for SMT: Law is bad, Chaos is unequivocally worse. My prediction for Neutral is that it will be 'better' but also lame, as usual.
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Mar 24, 2017 03:32
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Man, the Law bosses really loved getting up in your personal space. Those sprites were ridiculously huge.
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Mar 24, 2017 04:07
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Yeah, I liked the law ending for the horror aspect, Chaos... feels really unsatisfying to play. In a lot of ways the game just hands you the win. Which makes sense contexually but. Mleh.
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Mar 24, 2017 05:42
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That's 2 for 2 in failing the main mission and giving Earth over to demons. Hopefully, the third time is the charm!
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Mar 24, 2017 05:48
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I feel like they got it out of order, you should be fighting Zelenin first, and then Mastema - not in terms of power, but storywise.
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Mar 24, 2017 05:50
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i really do love that gigeresque statue at the end there
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Mar 24, 2017 06:39
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Robindaybird posted:I feel like they got it out of order, you should be fighting Zelenin first, and then Mastema - not in terms of power, but storywise. Mastema admitted outright that the angels had lost their power over humans, so Zelenin is actually more important than him if the angels want to achieve their goal; as such, they couldn't really afford to risk her until the situation was FUBAR.
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Mar 24, 2017 07:41
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Pillar Zelenin is kind of a joke, sadly. I will say that I've had the charm land from both her and Mastema, though, so either you're lucky, I'm unlucky, or I was just using bad demons for it, because it's not like the game tells you anything about status resistances!
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Mar 24, 2017 16:36
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They should've made you fight Mastema and Zelenin at the same time to compensate for the lack of Mem Aleph. Also, their ideas may suck, but Chaos has some sick architects. I wish Horologium looked like a Giger dungeon. Or one of the repeat aesthetics like Fornax/Grus.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:24
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Zelenin actually managed to murder me once with Requiem. This led me to think, for a long time, that she was as bad as Mem Aleph. She's hardly even Orobouros tier.
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Mar 24, 2017 22:31
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So, uh, who exactly wanted a 3DS remake of this?
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Mar 26, 2017 14:44
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Dragonatrix posted:So, uh, who exactly wanted a 3DS remake of this? Sincere question, will you be getting it? Also talk about impeccable timing.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:19
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It would have to majorly overhaul it's mechanics and story for me to consider getting it - I love the concept and the co-op is interesting in theory, it's the execution.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:26
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If they fix the mechanics (unlikely), improve the worst dungeons (also unlikely) and the new characters improve the cast as a whole (likely, but that's a low bar) this might be a top shelf SMT game. Looking forward to it not happening, I guess.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:27
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Honestly, I'm surprised SJ gets a remake, far as I'm aware, it's not a super-popular game in the Megaten umbrella.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:30
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Robindaybird posted:Honestly, I'm surprised SJ gets a remake, far as I'm aware, it's not a super-popular game in the Megaten umbrella. I can't think of any DS Atlus game that hasn't been or going to be remade for 3DS at this point. Except the Trauma Center games, but those did move to the Wii.
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Mar 26, 2017 15:52
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