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Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe

You'd think that the various examples of South America, Korea, Vietnam, Egypt etc would conclusively show that military juntas are never an expression of popular will, but I guess in this case the people are on the side of the CIA, and need to be oppressed for their own good.

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thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


Mr. Sunshine posted:

You'd think that the various examples of South America, Korea, Vietnam, Egypt etc would conclusively show that military juntas are never an expression of popular will, but I guess in this case the people are on the side of the CIA, and need to be oppressed for their own good.

I have to wonder if tankies just kind of hate democracy. Some love to say that North Korea is the most democratic country in the world or whatever but most of them just seem to have a hard-on for authoritarianism

Neo_Crimson
Aug 15, 2011

"Is that your final dandy?"

thetoughestbean posted:

I have to wonder if tankies just kind of hate democracy. Some love to say that North Korea is the most democratic country in the world or whatever but most of them just seem to have a hard-on for authoritarianism

I mean, duhh?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


It's sort of in the name that the big appeal comes from the crushing people with tanks rather than any of the other stuff. But the tanks have to be painted red.

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


Neo_Crimson posted:

I mean, duhh?

Yeah I’m not sure why I thought it was some sort of revelation when I typed it

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


It is odd to me that for how isolating it must be, you would think they would go for something more interesting than just "whoever the US is at war with is unquestionably the good guy"

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007




Mr. Sunshine posted:

You'd think that the various examples of South America, Korea, Vietnam, Egypt etc would conclusively show that military juntas are never an expression of popular will, but I guess in this case the people are on the side of the CIA, and need to be oppressed for their own good.

In fairness military juntas are neutral, the CIA has supported plenty of them in the past as well.

ChaseSP
Mar 25, 2013



Oh tankies absolutely hate free democracy that isn't just a party that can freely and blatantly choose who can run under their banner. You think the Democrats are hosed, the CCP is an full on closed party that requires an indepth application process while in schooling.

Aramek
Dec 22, 2007

Cutest tumor in all of Oncology!

They are just Eastern imperialists instead of Western imperialists.

NightGyr
Mar 7, 2005
I � Unicode

David Frum said this about Republicans:

David Frum posted:

 If conservatives become convinced that they can not win democratically, they will not abandon conservatism. The will reject democracy.

This applies in lots of places where democracy is not the #1 value - tankies see crushing capitalism as more important than silly things like freedom and democracy.

The balance of democracy vs. other priorities gets uncomfortable and blurry at times, since not every compromise of democracy goes straight to sending in the tanks. The Second Spanish Republic banned the Jesuits and postponed elections. Lincoln suspended habeas corpus.

Liberal ideology at its most idealist is the view that democracy will win out and fix everything. History has shown that democracy gets squeezed and squished and needs to be finagled at times.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


But I don't even know what they conceptualize as "capitalism" because certainly they don't seem to have any coherent view of its antithesis. Unless they are absolutely insane they clearly cannot believe that workers in China, Syria, or North Korea control the means of production and their own lives in a meaningful way that workers in the west do not. So what is capitalism? Or at least what is it about it that must be destroyed in favour of a slightly differently organized bunch of assholes running everything and making all the decisions?

To me all I see is people arguing that the problem isn't the hierarchical organization of society into rulers and ruled but that the process for picking the rulers is simply not optimal and if we just change that we will pick the right rulers who will make all our lives better. Also this is very different from when the liberals argue that the market will guide our meritocracy to achieve the same result. Or when the monarchists argue that the divine blood of the sovereign and their aristocracy are the measure by which the best ruler is determined. Or when the politicians get together and hire some praetorians to stab the current emperor. This is the next stage of history, and clearly is not like anything else you could point to.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





OwlFancier posted:

But I don't even know what they conceptualize as "capitalism" because certainly they don't seem to have any coherent view of its antithesis. Unless they are absolutely insane they clearly cannot believe that workers in China, Syria, or North Korea control the means of production and their own lives in a meaningful way that workers in the west do not. So what is capitalism? Or at least what is it about it that must be destroyed in favour of a slightly differently organized bunch of assholes running everything and making all the decisions?

To me all I see is people arguing that the problem isn't the hierarchical organization of society into rulers and ruled but that the process for picking the rulers is simply not optimal and if we just change that we will pick the right rulers who will make all our lives better. Also this is very different from when the liberals argue that the market will guide our meritocracy to achieve the same result. Or when the monarchists argue that the divine blood of the sovereign and their aristocracy are the measure by which the best ruler is determined. Or when the politicians get together and hire some praetorians to stab the current emperor. This is the next stage of history, and clearly is not like anything else you could point to.
I do not think that most tankies, especially nowadays, reached their opinions through considered reason and analysis. (Maybe some did in the 1950s, or earlier.) I believe a large part of this involves addressing emotional and psychological needs on the part of the opinion's advocates, and I think this is also why you see a relatively affluent skew in a lot of tankies: they have the time to focus on shocking the bourgeoise, and indeed, they probably mostly know the bourgeoise.

So when we say, "it's obvious, Capitalism/liberalism/whatever is just what they don't like," I think that that is accurate, in terms of describing "the idea or target which these people are signifying towards or about." The question becomes where you go from that information. I have no idea. But they sure are funny.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Nalpraxis is the new account of unpaidcomintern.
The sheer strength of the inverted American exceptionalism of Nalpraxis is spectacular how it leads to a rank and open hypocrisy and cruelty.


https://twitter.com/BumboJumbo666/status/1380220501411381249
https://twitter.com/BumboJumbo666/status/1380177008257335296
https://twitter.com/nalpraxis/status/1380199072821284865
https://twitter.com/BumboJumbo666/status/1380201427306491904

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


https://twitter.com/torontorsm/status/1386769393380691969?s=21

The Toronto tankie scene is something

The Vosgian Beast
Aug 13, 2011

Business is slow

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/status/1388190335986278404 MRNA stands for Mengele RNA

Douche Wolf 89
Dec 9, 2010



thetoughestbean posted:

The Toronto tankie scene is something

Oh surprise surprise they are having an internal power conflict:

https://communistworkers.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/destroy-the-old-and-build-the-new-with-gonzalo-thought-as-our-weapon/ posted:

After roughly six months of acute internal crisis between the Left line of the Revolutionary Student Movement (organizationally manifested as the Vancouver, Toronto, and former Montreal sections) and the consolidated Right-Opportunist Line of the RSM’s national Coordinating Committee, the Vancouver and Toronto sections are no longer able to recognize the leadership of the Coordinating Committee.

What's the fight about?

https://communistworkers.wordpress.com/2021/04/30/destroy-the-old-and-build-the-new-with-gonzalo-thought-as-our-weapon/ posted:

This decision has come on the basis of months of attempts at two-line struggle by the Left, which has been met with nothing but expulsions, slander, doxxing, bureaucracy, wrecking, and liquidation by the Coordinating Committee. The struggle against the Coordinating Committee has reached a point where we are no longer able to keep this struggle internal. It is now our duty to reveal to the masses and fellow Communists the reactionary character of this clique. The Coordinating Committee can no longer be seen as the leading body of a revolutionary organization, but as a tool of the “Revolutionary Communist Party”–Charles Gagnon Cell axis of revisionism in their war on Gonzalo Thought, and by extension they wage war on Maoism itself.

Doxxing, that sounds serious... wait "Gonzalo Thought"? Why is that famili-

1983 Lucanamarca massacre posted:

The Lucanamarca massacre was a massacre of 69 peasants in and around the town of Lucanamarca, Peru that took place on 3 April 1983. The massacre was perpetrated by the Shining Path, the Maoist guerrilla organization that launched the internal conflict in Peru.

Julius CSAR
Oct 3, 2007

Switches Set



Really showed those 7th graders

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


https://twitter.com/torontorsm/status/1385245402581045251?s=21

https://twitter.com/torontorsm/status/1387552293726347267?s=21

Their main demographic seems to be kids who smoke

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





I realize that I am a running-dog lackey of Bidenist thought or something, but surely you'd want to say "workers" at the middle school. These guys are like chaos magicians trying to meme Communism into reality, except chaos magicians at least are aware of what they're doing.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Nessus posted:

I realize that I am a running-dog lackey of Bidenist thought or something, but surely you'd want to say "workers" at the middle school. These guys are like chaos magicians trying to meme Communism into reality, except chaos magicians at least are aware of what they're doing.

Given that they appear to be high school students (who smoke) I think you're giving them too much credit.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug


I mean, when it comes to the ol’ Venn diagrams, “high school communists” is a small circle entirely contained in the much larger “high schoolers that smoke” one.

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe

Douche Wolf 89 posted:

expulsions, slander, doxxing, bureaucracy, wrecking, and liquidation

A marvelous phrase. Like Stalin and Tumblr had a baby.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


https://twitter.com/karl_was_right/status/1388598910302658566?s=21

https://twitter.com/abovetheclouds/status/1388601100601905158?s=21

trapped mouse
May 25, 2008




Second one was already deleted, what was it?

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


I have to wonder if this person simply is unaware that it is possible and quite fashionable to try to wipe out cultures (especially among western imperial powers) or whether they just think it is something that China could never do.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


trapped mouse posted:

Second one was already deleted, what was it?

“If you replace "Uyghurs" with "Germans" and "Han" with "migrants", you get verbatim the discourse of the German far right.”

Fojar38
Sep 1, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->


OwlFancier posted:

I have to wonder if this person simply is unaware that it is possible and quite fashionable to try to wipe out cultures (especially among western imperial powers) or whether they just think it is something that China could never do.

To these people, "imperialism" is not an abstract concept of political science that can exist anywhere, bur rather it's a geopolitical distinction and that's it. So if you are in one group of countries (US and allies) then you can do imperialism. If you are in another group of countries (countries ruled by governments hostile to the US and allies) then you cannot by definition.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

Fojar38 posted:

To these people, "imperialism" is not an abstract concept of political science that can exist anywhere, bur rather it's a geopolitical distinction and that's it. So if you are in one group of countries (US and allies) then you can do imperialism. If you are in another group of countries (countries ruled by governments hostile to the US and allies) then you cannot by definition.

It gets really funny when they call the IJA anti imperial.

Bear Enthusiast
Mar 20, 2010

Maybe
You'll think of me
When you are all alone


Ugly In The Morning posted:

It gets really funny when they call the IJA anti imperial.

It's one of those ironic names like a big guy named Tiny or something.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



Douche Wolf 89 posted:

Oh surprise surprise they are having an internal power conflict:


What's the fight about?


Doxxing, that sounds serious... wait "Gonzalo Thought"? Why is that famili-

i assume feel like this is a mix of like freshmen college kids/ high school kids and couple late 30 or 40 with handels like MaoistRebel or something all vying with each other over who gets to be chairmen. also this poo poo reads like weird theocratic fights after a while.

Dapper_Swindler has a new favorite as of 01:47 on May 3, 2021

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Comparing Chinese government interference with Islamic worship to the british monarchy running the church of england.
https://twitter.com/Sevsk11010101/status/1388697308955496451
The king running the Anglican church literally ended up causing a civil war when the scottish rebelled against Englands attempt to impose the Anglican church on them.


https://twitter.com/VenturCommunist/status/1388636807269605381

https://twitter.com/pefimoan/status/1388606915865980936

Its utterly baffling how tankies refuse to acknowledge the literal mountains of paperwork online that the Chinese government puts out describing what they are doing to the Uyghurs.

Douche Wolf 89
Dec 9, 2010



Dapper_Swindler posted:

i assume feel like this is a mix of like freshmen college kids/ high school kids and couple late 30 or 40 with handels like MaoistRebel or something all vying with each other over who gets to be chairmen. also this poo poo reads like weird theocratic fights after a while.

It's their only other non-social media link on that linktr.ee page. Even if you are inspired by them tagging the smoker pit of your highschool, you're going to be disinterested with their inability to stop re-enacting the Menshevik-Bolshevik split.

Don Gato
Apr 28, 2013

Actually a bipedal cat.

Grimey Drawer

Pharohman777 posted:

Its utterly baffling how tankies refuse to acknowledge the literal mountains of paperwork online that the Chinese government puts out describing what they are doing to the Uyghurs.

It's because most of that is in Chinese, and learning Chinese is counterrevolutionary as the teachers are all CIA spies who will brainwash you into learning Chinese wrong so you look at documents and think they're actually bad instead of good.

Pharohman777
Jan 14, 2012



Fojar38 posted:

To these people, "imperialism" is not an abstract concept of political science that can exist anywhere, bur rather it's a geopolitical distinction and that's it. So if you are in one group of countries (US and allies) then you can do imperialism. If you are in another group of countries (countries ruled by governments hostile to the US and allies) then you cannot by definition.

I think fundamental to a Tankie view of the world is Lenin and Stalins attempts to defend/justify the actions of USSR by trying to isolate it from political analysis via brand new definitions of imperialism and such that don't apply to 'socialist' countries.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

Pharohman777 posted:

I think fundamental to a Tankie view of the world is Lenin and Stalins attempts to defend/justify the actions of USSR by trying to isolate it from political analysis via brand new definitions of imperialism and such that don't apply to 'socialist' countries.

Yeah, but they’re taking that and applying it to tons of countries that aren’t even nominally socialist, like Imperial Japan.

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



Ugly In The Morning posted:

Yeah, but they’re taking that and applying it to tons of countries that aren’t even nominally socialist, like Imperial Japan.

what do you call the extreme opposite of Jingoism/patriotism/etc. because thats what alot of them are. if you ever fought the US then your the good guy no matter what you did. except the nazis because the soviets fought them.

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


Dapper_Swindler posted:

what do you call the extreme opposite of Jingoism/patriotism/etc. because thats what alot of them are. if you ever fought the US then your the good guy no matter what you did. except the nazis because the soviets fought them.

Negative exceptionalism

Dapper_Swindler
Feb 14, 2012

Shitposting 24/7 without regrets. my parents would be proud.



thetoughestbean posted:

Negative exceptionalism

well its that then.

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Help I have fallen into south american weeb catholic monarchist theocracy twitter and I can't escape.

https://twitter.com/notinbts/status/1389006073420566529

https://twitter.com/AstroImperial/status/1384905816021606402

There's like a whole pile of these weridos.

https://twitter.com/Noxmgbr
https://twitter.com/CatSoc_Raphi

They all retweet each other and do that weird right wing "fren" poo poo.

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Giggle Goose
Oct 18, 2009


thetoughestbean posted:

Negative exceptionalism

I really do like this idea as a framework for understanding the tankie mindset. I can't imagine how they would react when presented with such an idea but it sure makes sense to me.

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