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EasilyConfused
Nov 21, 2009


one strong toad

Giggle Goose posted:

I really do like this idea as a framework for understanding the tankie mindset. I can't imagine how they would react when presented with such an idea but it sure makes sense to me.

I'm pretty sure they'd call you a fascist op

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thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


EasilyConfused posted:

I'm pretty sure they'd call you a fascist op

Or worse: a Trotskyist

Dr. Luau
Mar 14, 2010


Dapper_Swindler posted:

also this poo poo reads like weird theocratic fights after a while.

That's exactly what they are: Theocrats, minus the God stuff.

VictualSquid
Feb 29, 2012

Gently enveloping the target with indiscriminate love.


Dapper_Swindler posted:

what do you call the extreme opposite of Jingoism/patriotism/etc. because thats what alot of them are. if you ever fought the US then your the good guy no matter what you did. except the nazis because the soviets fought them.

Negative nationalism. Instead of saying that everything "country" does is good, they say everything "country" does is bad. They are still seeing the world as "country" vs. everybody else (even the country's citizens).
I remember finding this term in an article from the 40s. But I don't remember clearly enough to find it.

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe

VictualSquid posted:

Negative nationalism. Instead of saying that everything "country" does is good, they say everything "country" does is bad. They are still seeing the world as "country" vs. everybody else (even the country's citizens).
I remember finding this term in an article from the 40s. But I don't remember clearly enough to find it.

I think it was either Orwell or Shaw, and I think it's been quoted in this thread before.

acyclicity
Oct 27, 2008


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Yeah, but they’re taking that and applying it to tons of countries that aren’t even nominally socialist, like Imperial Japan.

Seems like a side-effect of treating politics like sports fandom. You pick your team, and you keep cheering for them even after all the players retire/get traded away. Or, you pick a team to hate, and you keep cheering for their opponents, no matter who they might be.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


https://twitter.com/BryBrightside/status/1384610239949987841

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.



The leftís principles of letting people die to covid?

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014






Both USSR and China were really into compulsory vaccination. And China still is. I guess it's another case of when a socialist country does something, it can never be bad, and if a capitalist country does the same thing, it's bad always.

Aramek
Dec 22, 2007

Cutest tumor in all of Oncology!

Vaxxes own, all y'all get them.

(Pfizer gang.)

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014






Aramek posted:

Vaxxes own, all y'all get them.

(Pfizer gang.)

I don't know, I was kind of feeling like poo poo the entire day. Sure, I won't die of COVID now, but man, it was mildly inconvenient.

Aramek
Dec 22, 2007

Cutest tumor in all of Oncology!

My first one did absolutely nothing, my second one kicked my rear end 18 hours post shot.

Worth it.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug


But the vaccines protect disabled and immunocompromised people even if they canít get it? Iím missing this guys point here.

Fojar38
Sep 1, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->


The whole concept of "manufacturing consent" sounds suspiciously like a justification for ignoring consent (because it was manufactured you see, and so it isn't REALLY consent/nonconsent.)

I know it was a Noam Chomsky book which is one of the damning aspects of the concept

SMEGMA_MAIL
May 4, 2018


THUNDERDOME LOSER 2021





Iím sure you have much more to contribute to the discussion than Noam Chomsky.

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


Itís weird because people usually cite Manufacturing Consent to deny genocide, not allege it.

(Indeed, the entire book is basically, when you get down to it, Herman and Chomsky trying to justify their denial of the Cambodian genocide. Herman himself went back to the well twenty years later and tried to extend it to Rwanda.)

Not So Fast
Dec 27, 2007




The USA was responsible for a massive slaughter in Cambodia, alongside the mass slaughter that was happening in Vietnam and Laos. When it came to claims of genocide for the other side, its not surprising they weren't believed at first by Chomsky.

trapped mouse
May 25, 2008





Huh, seems pretty-



oh

Bonus:

thetoughestbean
Apr 27, 2013

Do not attempt to interact with the hogs.


Itís weird to say ďliberatedĒ instead of ďboughtĒ, as if you took the land by force. Also: good lord do not join a commune led by a man who puts on Joker makeup and yells about how Anne Frank was evil

TinTower
Apr 21, 2010

You don't have to 8e a good person to 8e a hero.


https://twitter.com/BlkHmmrTimes/status/1389329917079400450

Fojar38
Sep 1, 2011


Sorry I meant to say I hope that the police use maximum force and kill or maim a bunch of innocent people, thus paving a way for a proletarian uprising and socialist utopia


also here's a stupid take
---------------------------->


SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Iím sure you have much more to contribute to the discussion than Noam Chomsky.

Thanks I'm pretty sure you're right, though that's not a very high bar.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar


I only glanced at this one initially and thought it was a picture of Ayn Rand and thought "Where's the problem?"

BrainDance
May 8, 2007

Disco all night long!


Fojar38 posted:

The whole concept of "manufacturing consent" sounds suspiciously like a justification for ignoring consent (because it was manufactured you see, and so it isn't REALLY consent/nonconsent.)

I know it was a Noam Chomsky book which is one of the damning aspects of the concept

Did you actually read the book?

It's not really a controversial or widely disagreed with idea, especially post Iraq war. There are issues with it (they really only focused on how America does it. Chomsky has said why later, but people still miss the point and take it as an only American phenomenon) but the main thesis of it is solid.

Youth Decay
Aug 17, 2015

a little too tithonic
yeah I really do think


trapped mouse posted:



Huh, seems pretty-



oh

Bonus:

10,000 feet up means it is going to be literally inaccessible in the winter and difficult to grow or raise anything

also rural Colorado is chock full of neo-Nazis so good luck getting any kind of empathy from the local government

Gaius Marius
Oct 9, 2012



I mean they're burning Anne Franks diary, I think Neo Nazi's can get behind that

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Gaius Marius posted:

I mean they're burning Anne Franks diary, I think Neo Nazi's can get behind that
They could genuinely have outreach based on the senior datum of hating the libs.

Haw haw! No, these are clearly women. I do remember the white nationalist/black nationalist tentative cooperation at some points when reading about the 60s and 70s, though.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

I fuckiní canít anymore.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Ugly In The Morning posted:

I fuckiní canít anymore.


So like, you give them $200 and work for them for eight weeks, apparently in large part on recruitment, and in return you get a uniform? I guess it is all about the grift, huh.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

Paying to recruit is just...


Fuckiní Multi-Level Maoism over here, my brain just broke.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




Ugly In The Morning posted:

Multi-Level Maoism

Pro tier username

Vincent Van Goatse
Nov 8, 2006

Don't be so gloomy. After all it's not that awful. Like the fella says, in Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder, and bloodshed, but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci, and the Renaissance.


Smellrose

Mr. Sunshine posted:

I think it was either Orwell or Shaw, and I think it's been quoted in this thread before.

iiRC it's from Orwell's "Notes on Nationalism".

OwlFancier
Aug 22, 2013

It is a powerful visual metaphor for my posting.


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Multi-Level Maoism

Thread's peaked, it's all downhill from here.

Definitely needs to be the thread title.

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe


Child from a persecuted minority killed by literal fascists seems like a weird icon to rail against, but I guess that's the terminally online anti-imperialists for you.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

OwlFancier posted:

Thread's peaked, it's all downhill from here.

Definitely needs to be the thread title.

Done! Normally I wouldnít have done that with my own joke but I wanted to practice with the thread editing buttons.

ChubbyChecker
Mar 25, 2018



trapped mouse posted:



Huh, seems pretty-



oh

Bonus:

amazing

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

"You are all going to freeze or starve to death"
"Why won't you join up then "

(of course they aren't going to freeze or starve to death, mom will pick them up after they get bored with their larping camping trip and steal all the donations)

System Metternich
Feb 28, 2010

But what did he mean by that?



Can anyone tell me why those guys hate Anne Frank so much? Is it just that their sorry excuse for a brain goes Jew = Israel = Coloniser and therefore decides that a teenaged Dutch girl that was murdered by the Nazis clearly must have the blood of Palestinians on her hands, or is it something else?

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe

System Metternich posted:

Can anyone tell me why those guys hate Anne Frank so much? Is it just that their sorry excuse for a brain goes Jew = Israel = Coloniser and therefore decides that a teenaged Dutch girl that was murdered by the Nazis clearly must have the blood of Palestinians on her hands, or is it something else?

The idea that Anne Frank is just some kid killed by the nazis is manufactured consent, and in reality she was a white cis zionist colonizer. Also, I am not an immature gently caress-you-dad edgelord, I am actually an enlightened anti-imperialist.

Mr. Sunshine
May 15, 2008

This is a scrunt that has been in space too long and become a Lunt (Long Scrunt)


Fun Shoe

steinrokkan posted:

"You are all going to freeze or starve to death"
"Why won't you join up then "

(of course they aren't going to freeze or starve to death, mom will pick them up after they get bored with their larping camping trip and steal all the donations)

Let's all join up! Goon project!

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Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017

Exploration is ill-advised




System Metternich posted:

Can anyone tell me why those guys hate Anne Frank so much? Is it just that their sorry excuse for a brain goes Jew = Israel = Coloniser and therefore decides that a teenaged Dutch girl that was murdered by the Nazis clearly must have the blood of Palestinians on her hands, or is it something else?

While see above, I'ma guess misogyny plays a part, along with attention getting and the idea of attention being paid to Anne Frank is attention that is not being paid to meeee

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