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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


I half-seriously suggested a thread in this vein in the PYF Dark Enlightenment Thinker thread, and other posters liked the idea, so here we are.

What is a tankie?

Wikipedia posted:

Tankie was a pejorative term referring to those members of the Communist Party of Great Britain that followed the Kremlin line, agreeing with the crushing of revolts in Hungary and later Czechoslovakia by Soviet tanks; or more broadly, those who followed a traditional pro-Soviet position.

SJWiki posted:

A Tankie is an apologist for the violence and crimes against humanity perpetrated by twentieth-century Marxist-Leninist regimes, particularly the Soviet Union under Joseph Stalin (1924 - 1953). More broadly, the term may refer to any leftist who is perceived to support or defend authoritarian regimes on the basis that they are enemies of the United States. This can include regimes that are not and do not claim to be communist such as those of Vladimir Putin in Russia and Bashir al-Assad in Syria.

r/shittankiessay posted:

The modern usage of the term tankie means someone who unequivocally supports various tinpot dictators and nations, either as being muh "actually existing socialism" or on a principle of unprincipled "anti-imperialism."

What is an authoritarian moonbat?

RationalWiki posted:

This is a category for anti-democratic far-left, and most either embrace or heavily sympathize with authoritarian varients of communism. While they are all on the authoritarian far-left most are at odds with each other, for instance Stalinists and Maoists.

Thread guidelines:
  • The scope of this thread is intentionally somewhat vague, but try to stick to people who are apologists for dictators, advocate violent revolution to create a dictatorship of the proletariat with a straight face, espouse bigoted views such as homophobia from a "left-wing" perspective, or are at least vaguely Old Left. People you simply consider overly "woke" or "Tumblr-y" are a completely different category and should be avoided (we actually used to have a PYF mock thread for them, and it collapsed because of arguments about whether the people being posted were really all that unreasonable, and because a fair amount of the thread was at least arguably punching down). There will be some overlap in the form of "Maoism-Third-Worldism" and similar ideologies, but those should be OK to post, because I think pretty much everyone here can agree that they are silly.
  • There's no hard rule that you have to post a quote in every post or anything like that, but some amount of finding quotes instead of just discussion helps keep mock threads from dying.
  • On the other hand, try to keep quotes to a reasonable length.

Now on to the quotes!

The Stalin thread on RevLeft has some amusing bits.

quote:

That Stalin "made a fine Emperor" is not a Marxist analysis, nor are claims that he "crapped up" arts.

quote:

Sorry mates. My overall view of Stalin is actually positive. My main man Žižek is a self-proclaimed Stalinist, who am I to argue. Still,he did some questionable things. Like all that constant history-modifying, how's a worker supposed to make the right conclusions from history if the history itself is unreliable?

Then there's the American Herald Tribune, where the headlines say it all. It was actually what inspired this thread in the first place.

quote:

Homosexuality and Bourgeois Decadence: Reflections on the Orlando Massacre

One of the section headings is "Neoliberalism- a gay science."

quote:

9/11 and the Zionist Question: Is Noam Chomsky a Disinfo Agent for Israel? - Part 13

It's the "Part 13" that really makes this one.

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012



https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...921274102419456

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/halabtweets/sta...228565300371456

Edit: Actually, I might have broken my own guidelines here; @halabtweets is probably an Assad supporter/propagandist actually living in Syria, not a Western Assad apologist.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:41 on Aug 31, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Gabriel Pope posted:

Tack on a few more "Syria vs."s at the start and this is basically accurate.

Plus tack on a few more "vs. imperialism"s on the end.

In other words, it actually is complicated!

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...456086260867072

It took me a moment to realize that he's criticizing Putin for not being Stalin-like enough.

Because Stalin would never support appeasement!

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:51 on Aug 31, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


divabot posted:

To quote myself from the vile socjus regressive-left wiki:


Worth excerpting for the first post?

I think the Wikipedia quote I used already touches on the derivation ("agreeing with the crushing of revolts in Hungary and later Czechoslovakia by Soviet tanks").

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


The Spartacist League is icky.

quote:

Our defence of Polanski, like our longstanding defence of NAMBLA (North American Man/ Boy Love Association, which advocates the decriminalisation of consensual sex between men and boys), is based on our Marxist programme for women’s liberation through socialist revolution. Government out of the bedroom! Hands off Roman Polanski! Drop the charges!

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...144669844807680

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Haha, of course he's a 9/11 Truther.

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...691662109646848

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...802788025536512

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


pookel posted:

Isn't Duterte a *right-wing* anti-American despot? Shouldn't they hate him on those grounds?

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...161621694873600

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...161767820201988

So I guess the logic is "sure, he's a bad guy, but Max Blumenthal is pointing it out in bad faith"?

Except when he suggests that Duterte didn't do anything bad after all. But you see, he's just asking questions!

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...154907381698560

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...156386628898816

The actual logic seems to be that right-wingers are only bad when they're from or allied with First World countries.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...931972156375040

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Mycroft Holmes posted:

See, you could do something really interesting with a Communist Harry Potter. Magic invalidates a lot of traditional economic notions and the conditions amongst the persecuted underclass in Wizarding Britain is ripe for revolution. However, this fanfic is poo poo.

I couldn't get past the first few lines (the spelling alone was hurting my eyes), but it's a parody, right?

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Amanda Froelich posted:

I’m a 20-year-young Holistic Nutritionist (RHN Diploma, CSNN), Live Foods Chef (previous work experience at the Tree of Life Rejuvenation Center, Pomegranate Café (AZ), and Farm of Life (Costa Rica)), Energy Worker (Reiki II), Artist, Musical vocalist and instrument player, Freelance Writer (specialty: alternative health, sustainable living, conscious living and spiritual connectedness), and entrepreneur.

The italicization of Artist is hers.

You'd expect someone with a bio like that to believe a lot of other silly things, but 1930s-style antisemitism is a surprising one.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...697528431570945

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://maoistrebelnews.com/2011/01...ral-revolution/

quote:

In 1966 over a million students were in Beijing at any given time. These students were there to openly criticize the reactionary and authoritarian teachers and education systems. The complaint was that the teachers were creating experts with no political consciousness. The result of this student rebellion was rightist and revisionist administrators and teachers were paraded through the streets with dunce caps and were made subject to public criticism at meetings and all-night “struggle sessions.”

When did this ever happen here? Where in the Western world was it ever okay to disobey teachers who were taking students something they thought was wrong and corrected them in such a way? Never, but during the Cultural Revolution the students decided what they would be learning. They democratized the education system and the students organized it.

Red Guard organizations changed the old imperial names of streets and stores and searched homes, temples and churches for evidence of counter-revolutionary activities, hoarding wealth, and the practice of feudal customs. This was not mindless violence that was portrayed in the Western press, but a political movement to uproot the old ideas and customs of the exploiting classes. However, there were excesses, including serious physical attacks on people in relatively privileged positions, which Mao and others in the party leadership recognized and sought to correct.

quote:

On a more important note, if Mao was such a dictator, then why did he allow this [the "January Storm"] to happen? Surely a dictator would object to the entire party apparatus in a city being over thrown being. It was nothing of the sort, Mao hailed them as having a true revolutionary spirit. They were confronted with an unjust and harmful government policy and they destroyed it.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


uber_stoat posted:

people like these guys are a danger to themselves and no one else.

Maybe true-ish in general, but you chose an unfortunate example to illustrate your point. Someone who rapes other far-leftists can't be trusted not to surprise sex other people as well. And the surprise sex of the other SWP member shouldn't be fuel for ridicule either; it was genuinely awful and should be treated as such.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 22:04 on Sep 21, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Kim Ives posted:

[Dady] Chery also slaughters many sacred cows. I particularly liked her spirited defense of the institution of restavek, which is often presented by North American liberals as child slavery. “One cannot talk about orphaned Haitian children without confronting two highly controversial and interwoven subjects: Vodou and restavek,” Chery writes. “Both are part of the very fabric of the Haitian family, which is currently under vicious attack.”

Chery’s mother had been a restavek in her grandparents’ home, and she relates many anecdotes to argue that the “restavek system is profoundly subversive in that it intimately binds Haitians of different socioeconomic classes.”

Dady Chery posted:

Vaccines are an amazing opportunity to administer drugs to perfectly healthy people. Normally you give drugs to people who are sick. In the case of vaccinations, you are taking perfectly healthy people and giving them something that might actually harm them. Now, there is the notion of primum no nocere: first do no harm. This is part of the Hippocratic oath. You are not supposed to harm people, if you are a doctor and you are trying to help them. Okay. So that’s number one.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 14:58 on Oct 3, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Zizek posted:

One of the specifically pernicious effects of the politically correct Cultural Studies position is a (concealed, but hence even more effective) prohibition against revealing the structural problem of lesbian subjectivity; against an attempt to understand the clinical fact that most lesbian relationships are unusually cold, emotionally distant, radically narcissistic; that love within their context is impossible, and the subject’s own position is problematic. As if drawing logical conclusions from this fact (and not just handwaving it away as an effect of internalized patriarchal repression) was equivalent to accepting classical patriarchal “wisdom”.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 21:09 on Oct 6, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/cordeliers/stat...917345478815744

OK, "as always" is probably meant somewhat hyperbolicly, but it's still an absurd statement.

https://twitter.com/PhilGreaves01/s...813692352913408

Not specifically authoritarian, but talk about putting the cart before the horse!

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 02:18 on Oct 12, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Gearoid O Colmain (American Herald Tribune) posted:

During the zenith of the Black civil rights movement in the United States, black homosexuals were used as double agents by the White ruling class to weaken and destroy the black liberation movement. A key actor in this ruling-class intrigue was Bayard Rustin, a homosexual pedophile, who managed to advise Dr. Martin Luther King to abandon black liberation and settle for minor reforms. Rustin persuaded Dr. King to abandon armed protection of his home. Poor security of Dr. King would eventually lead to his assassination by state agents.
...
Black Lives Matter is a ruling-class psyop which is exploiting the anger and frustration of the black lumpen-proletariat in order to stoke up race-war in the United States. As E.Micheal Jones shows, the Black Lives Matter movement was used in Missouri in an attempt to overthrow the government which was against gay marriage.
...
Black revolutionary Irritated Genie is an activist you are unlikely to hear of in respectable White, middle-class leftist forums. Yet he, along with Dr. Umar Johnson, is perhaps one of the most important leaders in America since Malcolm X. Communists will disagree with the racial focus of the movement but it has a far better class analysis than the Black Lives Matter charade.

Irritated Genie's lectures describe how Jewish mogul Jay Heller took over the US hip hop industry in the 1980s, in order to sideline groups such as 'Public Enemy' who were promoting radical, grass-roots activism.

Through the glorification of violence, misogyny and surprise sex, the Jewish-owned hip-hop industry has managed to poison and incarcerate the Black mind far more effectively than any previous form of slavery.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 15:50 on Oct 14, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


I probably shouldn't be signal-boosting right-wing troll-polling of this sort, but I might as well mention it since it's on-topic and mildly interesting:
https://twitter.com/DailySignal/sta...979005286756354

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Peztopiary posted:

So if you look at the poll you'll see it's YouGov. So it's an online poll with 2300 respondents, and it's easily gamed. At this point, any poll not done over landlines or cellphones is basically useless because of how easy they are to brigade. They've got the actual poll/poll results at the bottom of the link, if you're interested.

That's even troll-ier than I thought. I suppose I shouldn't be surprised.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Lunchmeat Larry posted:

Democrat party line now is Red Menace stuff about Putin being an evil communist out to corrupt the brave USA and how we need to establish an Un-American Activities Committee to root out leftists and traitors, no surprise.

Source your quotes.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/VNGiapaganda/st...436081401036800

FALSE FLAG!

https://twitter.com/BrianArmas_/sta...673647144529920

opposition to authoritarianism is basically the same as anarchism

https://twitter.com/RedKahina/status/791979148092768256

I'm not entirely sure what "incl. slaves" refers to in this context.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 18:05 on Oct 28, 2016

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Some hot takes from tankie twitter on the shooting of the Russian ambassador in Turkey.

https://twitter.com/cordeliers/stat...893783604850688

https://twitter.com/robinmonotti/st...892871779946497

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


A human heart posted:

can you explain whats bad about this exactly

In practice, it tends to turn into the dictatorship of a single man.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/wokieleaks1/sta...733607126224898

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/TankMaster5000/...107811683733505

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Interesting thread here (read the whole thing): https://twitter.com/AudaciousBeat/s...917103138975744

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Bryter posted:

Pinkwashing is terrible and if they made the parade look like a shitshow good imo

Sure, but if you read the whole Twitter thread, it's clear that @audaciousbeat approves of the actual gulags.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012



To be fair, authoritarian centrists do exist, and I've occasionally considered creating a thread about them to complete the trilogy. Like Tom Friedman's "China for a day" fantasies and Macron comparing himself to Jupiter. I decided against it partly because a lot of D&D and C-SPAM is devoted to making fun of that sort of thing already, and partly because it would spark too much serious political argument for PYF.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Baronjutter posted:

I've never seen Tankies go to bat for loving Imperial Japan

Is that an actual tankie? The lack of capital letters makes it come across as a shitpost, but the "lowercase = sarcasm/shitpost" thing might be limited to SA.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://twitter.com/sam_kriss/status/892358778473021440

https://twitter.com/sam_kriss/status/892390062704529408

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


https://www.theguardian.com/politic...havez-oligarchs

quote:

Ken Livingstone, a former mayor of London, has blamed the turmoil in Venezuela on the unwillingness of the former president, Hugo Chávez, to execute “oligarchs” after he came to power.

Livingstone, who is suspended from the Labour party, also blamed the economic crisis in the country on the government’s failure to take his advice on investment in infrastructure, which he said would have reduced the Latin American state’s dependence on oil.

The former mayor, a longtime supporter of the late president Chávez and his successor Nicolás Maduro, said the socialist leader’s enemies wanted to restore their power.

“One of the things that Chávez did when he came to power, he didn’t kill all the oligarchs. There was about 200 families who controlled about 80% of the wealth in Venezuela,” Livingstone told Talk Radio.

“He allowed them to live, to carry on. I suspect a lot of them are using their power and control over imports and exports to make it difficult and to undermine Maduro.” When pressed, Livingstone said he was “not in favour of killing anyone”.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


http://john-steppling.com/2017/07/the-past-is-not-safe/

John Steppling posted:

And one aspect of this is to shape dissent — a faux dissent in which a *new* left, branded and capitalized, in their guise as reasonable and adult, make sure to police real dissent more ruthlessly than even conservatives or liberals. This is the left that makes sure to denigrate Chavez and Maduro, to label Syria a *regime* and laugh at those crazy North Koreans. For this is proof that they have a seat at the table of reality.

What's interesting about this isn't the tankie sentiment itself (which is something of a commonplace), but the context it comes in: a rant about how the characterization and scene-setting of movies these days is shallow. Steppling's train of thought in these essays seems to meander.

http://john-steppling.com/2017/06/the-frail-athletes/

This essay is fairly boring (although it does suggest Steppling's opposition to mainstream medicine's views of mental illness), but I feel the need to share this gem from the comments (even though it's not actually political):

tetradugenica posted:

I think the closest to real tragedy I’ve encountered in contemporary media is Dark Souls 1. It has the heroic inevitability of failure and the gods helplessly trying to stop things that cannot be stopped

http://john-steppling.com/2017/05/d...tic-domination/

John Steppling posted:

Ok…so in other words one has to be or sell yourself to a millionaire, essentially. But the point here is about democracy. Chavez was elected several times but is still called a dictator (Bernie Sanders called him a dead communist dictator). And yet, Venzeuela is among the most democratic nations on earth. Russia is democratic. But all these places suffer problems, too. Corruption usually at the top. But who is the most corrupt nation on earth? Im guessing the United States (saudi arabia just pledged a hundred million to Ivanka Trump’s company…and Obama just did a speaking gig for three million…THREE loving MILLION DOLLARS to talk at a climate change conference?). So clearly corruption exists throughout the institutions of governance in the US. Look at the courts, the racial bias, and clear inequality of the make up of those in prisons. Rich people do NOT go to jail in the US. Is that democratic? Or how something like 90% of judges and lawyers in capital cases are white. But ok…then we come to US allies. The US loves to speak of european democracy. And yet Belgium, Sweden, Norway, England, Denmark, Luxembourg, Spain, and the Netherlands all have Kings or Queens. And the influence of those monarchs vary from country to country, but its not without influence in any of them. And symbolically, Id say that sends a pretty strong message about privilege and class hierarchy. But thats just my opinion. Mostly I find people have been conditioned to adore royalty. Its partly the selling of a narrative of romance and partly just dreams driven by unrealistic desire for wealth themselves.

So...he's saying Russia is more democratic than Sweden because Sweden has a queen?

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 00:55 on Aug 8, 2017

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


The original tweet was either deleted or its account made private, but screenshots are forever.

https://twitter.com/NAChristakis/st...741275843022848

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012



He's LoB-quoting a John Steppling post on CounterPunch.

Edit: What's really weird and annoying about Steppling is that he doesn't really make arguments in defense of Milosevic et al. The goodness of Milosevic is a premise; the conclusion being argued for is generally about why Hollywood is bad.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 19:31 on Nov 7, 2017

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Pope Guilty posted:

I'm sorry, is the argument here that only Americans care about white supremacy or have whiteness as a concept?

I think it's more than only Americans treat "whiteness" as the most significant category in determining who's an "Other" and who isn't. Though even then, I think "whiteness" has a similar status in, e.g., Australia.

Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Pope Guilty posted:

Europe is white supremacist as hell they just like to pretend otherwise.

There's definitely plenty of racism in Europe. It just doesn't seem to fall into the white/nonwhite binary quite as consistently as in the US. Like, a lot of people in the UK despise Poles without, as far as I know, thinking of Poles as nonwhite. The majority of racism even in the UK is probably still against black and Asian people, though.

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Silver2195
Apr 4, 2012


Edit: Never mind, this post was too off-topic.

Silver2195 has a new favorite as of 14:59 on Nov 22, 2017

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