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KinkyJohn
Sep 18, 2002



Mushkin pilot-e 1TB or hp 950ex 1TB if they cost the same locally?

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


KinkyJohn posted:

Mushkin pilot-e 1TB or hp 950ex 1TB if they cost the same locally?

They're effectively identical hardware, but the ex950 has a 5 year warranty and the mushkin has 3.

(Mushkin has better quality of warranty service than the ex950. I'd still take the 2 extra years though.)

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Would I be better going for the Western Digital SN550 1TB for £95 or the SN750 1TB for £110? The 750 is £80 off at Amazon at the moment.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


WattsvilleBlues posted:

Would I be better going for the Western Digital SN550 1TB for £95 or the SN750 1TB for £110? The 750 is £80 off at Amazon at the moment.

For home desktop & games stuff there is very little penalty to what the SN550 is missing (no dram: this has big impact in highly random IO, which isn't a normal home user workload). The SN750 is also faster at sustained writes, but that only matters if you do something that writes at over a GB/second.

15 extra for the SN750 is like, eh if 15 doesn't matter at all to you it is a drive which is statistically better for a reasonable price bump. For some professional/server applications it matters, but for most of us there's no real practical difference.


SN750 drives are on big discounts recently because PCIe 4 drives are coming out and the SN750 will be replaced by the SN850.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Klyith posted:

For home desktop & games stuff there is very little penalty to what the SN550 is missing (no dram: this has big impact in highly random IO, which isn't a normal home user workload). The SN750 is also faster at sustained writes, but that only matters if you do something that writes at over a GB/second.

£15 extra for the SN750 is like, eh if £15 doesn't matter at all to you it is a drive which is statistically better for a reasonable price bump. For some professional/server applications it matters, but for most of us there's no real practical difference.


SN750 drives are on big discounts recently because PCIe 4 drives are coming out and the SN750 will be replaced by the SN850.

Cheers. I'm planning on keeping this new machine I'm building for as long as I can, better part of a decade. Does that change the equation at all?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


WattsvilleBlues posted:

Cheers. I'm planning on keeping this new machine I'm building for as long as I can, better part of a decade. Does that change the equation at all?

If you play video games, the new consoles have very high speed (PCIe 4 type) storage. There's some likelihood that maybe 5 years from now games will start to expect equally high-speed drives on the PC. OTOH that doesn't change much between the SN550 and the SN750, because they're both PCIe 3 drives that have approximately the same read speed. It would be more of an argument for moving up to much more expensive PCIe 4 drives (or waiting for them to get cheaper later this year).

Aside from that, I doubt what we do with PCs will be all that different in ways that make the SN750 a ton better.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Klyith posted:

If you play video games, the new consoles have very high speed (PCIe 4 type) storage. There's some likelihood that maybe 5 years from now games will start to expect equally high-speed drives on the PC. OTOH that doesn't change much between the SN550 and the SN750, because they're both PCIe 3 drives that have approximately the same read speed. It would be more of an argument for moving up to much more expensive PCIe 4 drives (or waiting for them to get cheaper later this year).

Aside from that, I doubt what we do with PCs will be all that different in ways that make the SN750 a ton better.

SN550 it is then. I don't intend to play many future games on it at this stage for various reasons, but for prior generation games the 550 will do the job. When PCI-E 4 becomes necessary I'll upgrade in a few years, if the world makes it that long.

DrDork
Dec 29, 2003
commanding officer of the Army of Dorkness

WattsvilleBlues posted:

SN550 it is then. I don't intend to play many future games on it at this stage for various reasons, but for prior generation games the 550 will do the job. When PCI-E 4 becomes necessary I'll upgrade in a few years, if the world makes it that long.

By the time PCIe 4 becomes "needed" we'll be discussing the merits of paying the extra costs for PCIe 5 drives. Storage speeds aren't something to worry about other than "is it a SSD or a HDD?" honestly.

aparmenideanmonad
Jan 28, 2004
Balls to you and your way of mortal opinions - you don't exist anyway!

Fun Shoe

DrDork posted:

By the time PCIe 4 becomes "needed" we'll be discussing the merits of paying the extra costs for PCIe 5 drives. Storage speeds aren't something to worry about other than "is it a SSD or a HDD?" honestly.

Yeah, the first SSD I ever bought is still chugging along happily and the entire ancient i5 system it's built with boots into windows less than a second slower than the rig I finished last month.

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

aparmenideanmonad posted:

Yeah, the first SSD I ever bought is still chugging along happily and the entire ancient i5 system it's built with boots into windows less than a second slower than the rig I finished last month.

I do enjoy that the narrative is already being crafted that you NEED a PCIe 4.0 drive to take advantage of DirectStorage, when everything I've read says 3.0 is fine.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

aparmenideanmonad posted:

Yeah, the first SSD I ever bought is still chugging along happily and the entire ancient i5 system it's built with boots into windows less than a second slower than the rig I finished last month.

Is NVMe not meant to be BIOS to login in a flash?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

BIG HEADLINE posted:

I do enjoy that the narrative is already being crafted that you NEED a PCIe 4.0 drive to take advantage of DirectStorage, when everything I've read says 3.0 is fine.

I had to look this up and.. huh. I don't get why they can't fix the windows i/o scheduler to take better advantage of fast SSDs.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


WattsvilleBlues posted:

Is NVMe not meant to be BIOS to login in a flash?

With Win10 fast startup (and a simple / recently installed system) it's pretty drat fast on any SSD. Slurping a few gigs of hibernation file off the drive takes 2 seconds on a sata SSD and 1 second on NVMe.

redeyes posted:

I had to look this up and.. huh. I don't get why they can't fix the windows i/o scheduler to take better advantage of fast SSDs.

a) I don't think the technique they use could work with anything but NVMe, and the standard windows i/o system has to support sata and legacy

b) most assuredly there are some downsides or limitations that would be bad when used for purposes other than gaming or gaming-like tasks

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Klyith posted:

With Win10 fast startup (and a simple / recently installed system) it's pretty drat fast on any SSD. Slurping a few gigs of hibernation file off the drive takes 2 seconds on a sata SSD and 1 second on NVMe.

I think my GPU (Radeon HD 7950) holds me back. After about 2013 there was some change to GPU firmware that allowed faster boot, even though I have an SSD. A laptop with iGPU boots faster than my much more powerful system.

You know, before it died.

My Hyper 212 Black Edition cooler should be here tomorrow (although I haven't had any dispatch notification from Amazon, so I'm getting nervous).

Coming from an i5 3570K (4.5GHz OC) with 8GB 667MHz RAM and a Samsung 850 EVO, am I likely to see some nice improvement with a 5600x build with 16GB 3200MHz CL16 RAM and an NVMe drive?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006


Just wear the fucking mask, Bob

I don't care how many people I probably infected with COVID-19 while refusing to wear a mask, my comfort is far more important than the health and safety of everyone around me!



WattsvilleBlues posted:


Coming from an i5 3570K (4.5GHz OC) with 8GB 667MHz RAM and a Samsung 850 EVO, am I likely to see some nice improvement with a 5600x build with 16GB 3200MHz CL16 RAM and an NVMe drive?

In benchmarks, yes.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


Klyith posted:

a) I don't think the technique they use could work with anything but NVMe, and the standard windows i/o system has to support sata and legacy

b) most assuredly there are some downsides or limitations that would be bad when used for purposes other than gaming or gaming-like tasks

a - Why not? The API shouldn't dictate that the backend IO request fulfillment be done over NVMe. If it does, DirectStorage is very badly designed, because an I/O API should provide some abstraction from the underlying hardware.

b - Why? The flip side of good API design is making sure that it works for many categories of software, especially when there's low friction for doing so (and I can't see why there would be any friction here).

Microsoft's dev blog posted:

Unfortunately, current storage APIs were not optimized for this high number of IO requests, preventing them from scaling up to these higher NVMe bandwidths creating bottlenecks that limit what games can do.

You can just substitute "applications" for "games" there and the statement remains true, yeah? Games aren't profoundly different from other software. Narrow and specialized, but if you're a game dev unhappy with how much I/O performance you can get through conventional filesystem APIs, you can bet that there's also non-game devs in the same boat.

I mean, it's possible. Maybe Microsoft plans to shoot themselves in the foot by designing something so bespoke and tailored that it's useless for anything but games running from NVMe drives. It's just... while I'm no Microsoft fan, I have a slightly higher opinion of them than that.

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Bob Morales posted:

In benchmarks, yes.

It'd better blow my socks off as promised by some goon a few weeks ago.

Or I wil unleash... hell.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

WattsvilleBlues posted:

It'd better blow my socks off as promised by some goon a few weeks ago.

Or I wil unleash... hell.



It should be quite a bit faster at day to day stuff and a poo poo load faster at games, cpu, etc.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




It won't chug surfing the internet

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



WattsvilleBlues posted:

It'd better blow my socks off as promised by some goon a few weeks ago.

Or I wil unleash... hell.

That doesn't sound like a thing I'd say...

WattsvilleBlues
Jan 25, 2005

Every demon wants his pound of flesh

Some Goon posted:

That doesn't sound like a thing I'd say...

LOL! Hahahaha I'm actually loling!

Palladium
May 8, 2012


aparmenideanmonad posted:

Yeah, the first SSD I ever bought is still chugging along happily and the entire ancient i5 system it's built with boots into windows less than a second slower than the rig I finished last month.

It's because SSD 4K QD1 read speeds has crossed the good enough mark at 22MB/s since 2011 and peaked in 2018 at 60-70MB/s.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup





So, should I be worried about seeing this from my 500GB 970 EVO?



If so, then that's 0-2 for Samsung drives, considering my old 850 EVO up and died one day with no warning.

Klyith posted:

If a HDD makes a lot of noise like that, it's generally because your case is resonating with the vibration of the drive. Sometimes even outside the case -- I've had PCs on wood floors where it was the floor that was producing sound, and putting something soft under the case to break that vibration stopped it.

There's ways to silence HDDs and do vibration isolation but that'll depend on your case. (Recent Corsair cases for example have really crappy HDD trays, so your only option is gonna be to make your own suspension setup or something. I have a corsair case for a guest / secondary PC, that's the one that I have to put a towel under to not produce a constant hum.)

Reminds me of the time I suspended my old HDDs using a bunch of rubber bands. Seemed a bit janky to me, at the time, but it worked.

PirateBob
Jun 14, 2003


Why are drive manufacturers still getting away with the false marketing of selling e.g. [2 billion bytes or whatever] drives as "2TB", when the usable space is actually only 1.81TB?

endlessmonotony
Nov 4, 2009


These are some bad posts, but they're not as bad as OOCC. I pray you recover enough to someday throw OOCC's keyboard into the sea and claim your rightful role as the worst C-SPAM poster.

PirateBob posted:

Why are drive manufacturers still getting away with the false marketing of selling e.g. [2 billion bytes or whatever] drives as "2TB", when the usable space is actually only 1.81TB?

Because it's tera-bytes and not binary terabytes.

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup





While in the middle of making an image with Macrium Reflect:



Yep. Looks like this fucker's done, unless I'm missing something.

And I'm done with Samsung. How's the Crucial P5?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

90s Solo Cup posted:

While in the middle of making an image with Macrium Reflect:



Yep. Looks like this fucker's done, unless I'm missing something.

And I'm done with Samsung. How's the Crucial P5?

Which one died?! I wouldn't just jump to Crucial.. they arn't special or something.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


90s Solo Cup posted:

How's the Crucial P5?

Fine, but not at all competitively priced seeing as it's a PCIe 3 drive and they haven't dropped prices like everyone else with gen4 drives upcoming. (Also it runs quite hot, fine for a desktop but if you have a laptop I'd avoid it.)

Go for a WD.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Klyith posted:

Fine, but not at all competitively priced seeing as it's a PCIe 3 drive and they haven't dropped prices like everyone else with gen4 drives upcoming. (Also it runs quite hot, fine for a desktop but if you have a laptop I'd avoid it.)

Go for a WD.

It's funny Micron's only competitive product under their own in-house brand is the MX500 and that's only because of the Silicon Motion controller doing all the heavy lifting, while their rest of the lineup ranges from meh (P1, P5) to complete dumpster fires (P2, BX500).

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

PirateBob posted:

Why are drive manufacturers still getting away with the false marketing of selling e.g. [2 billion bytes or whatever] drives as "2TB", when the usable space is actually only 1.81TB?

Because their marketing is exactly correct. It's your computer that is wrong claiming it's 1.81TB instead of 1.81 TiB.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Saukkis posted:

Because their marketing is exactly correct. It's your computer that is wrong claiming it's 1.81TB instead of 1.81 TiB.

TiB and GiB and all that crap isn't used by companies. It's a modern thing. I myself can't do TiB. Too old.

crazypenguin
Mar 9, 2005
nothing witty here, move along

At least drive manufacturers standardized on 1000, so they're comparable.

I once saw a service that reported storage metrics in "GB": 1000*1024*1024 bytes

Rocko Bonaparte
Mar 12, 2002

Every day is Friday!


I think my Intel SSD system drive had a stroke last night and died traumatically. I am trying to figure what I might be able to do to salvage anything from it. I moved most of my crap off of it when I got a larger spare, but there's always some loose ends.

I determined this after finding the system could boot fine to a Hiren boot CD if I unplugged that drive. If I had it connected, all boot options disabled, and manually started the Hiren boot, I'd eventually be stuck with the Win10 logo and spinny balls.

I normally would expect to come up in a rescue OS and yell at the drive unsuccessfully instead of failing to boot a rescue OS with it connect at all. A memtest boot worked. The next think I am trying is a Linux-based rescue of some kind.

Is there something I should try in particular?

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

I'M JUST HERE TO KISS TITTIESS AND WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!
(AND GET EVERYBODY FIRED)


SATA to USB adapter? You could try plugging it in after you've booted into Hiren's

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

The drive likely wont come online anymore so you are screwed. Sorry man.

Get a USB adapter, another computer, have software ready to copy your important files, or just a command prompt.. in case the drive actually does come online.

Thanks Ants
May 21, 2004

Bless You Ants, Blants



Are there any recommended 2.5" USB enclosures to put an old SATA SSD in, or is this a product category that is now reliant on chancing your luck at the Amazon flea market?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


A thing that's known to work with other sata SSDs is:
1. unplug the sata data cable, leave the power plugged in
2. turn on PC, leave on for ~1 hour
3. without turning PC off, plug in sata data cable
4. press the reset button to reboot without turning off power

(This works because during step 2, if the drive is still functional you're giving it a bunch of idle time to do its error correction routines.)

Rocko Bonaparte posted:

I determined this after finding the system could boot fine to a Hiren boot CD if I unplugged that drive. If I had it connected, all boot options disabled, and manually started the Hiren boot, I'd eventually be stuck with the Win10 logo and spinny balls.

If this is happening something isn't correct with the boot options, unless Hiren has some sort of pass through to windows. I've never used that before. For a lot of older CD boot discs you need to turn on legacy boot in the bios, because they aren't UEFI. ...edit: ok Hiren does UEFI so that's not a problem, but Hiren is also a windows PE environment -- so I'd guess that Hiren itself would be displaying the win10 logo and balls. and it could be hiren stuck unable to boot because it's trying to access the drive.

I'd definitely try a modern Linux live USB.

With a SSD I feel like you can take your time and try a couple things. HDDs it was always a race against the clock if they were going bad, because it was probably a mechanical problem that was going to get worse every minute the drive was turned on. SSDs aren't like that, sometimes they're even the opposite as with the idle self-repair thing.


Thanks Ants posted:

Are there any recommended 2.5" USB enclosures to put an old SATA SSD in, or is this a product category that is now reliant on chancing your luck at the Amazon flea market?

It's a product category that's so cheap and simple that any old thing works. Look for "UASP" as a supported feature and you'll get something that's decent.

Klyith fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Feb 6, 2021

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



Thanks Ants posted:

Are there any recommended 2.5" USB enclosures to put an old SATA SSD in, or is this a product category that is now reliant on chancing your luck at the Amazon flea market?

I'm not sure if there's a better one, but I have two of these Sabrent ones that have been solid:
https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LS31KQG/

90s Solo Cup
Feb 22, 2011

To understand the cup
He must become the cup





redeyes posted:

Which one died?! I wouldn't just jump to Crucial.. they arn't special or something.

The 970 EVO is the one that's apparently committing digital seppuku. The number of media and integrity errors apparently jumped from 1 to 59 over the past couple of months and now it's jumped to 234 overnight. And besides the read errors while trying to image the thing with Macrium, it's now throwing out similar errors when I attempt to move certain files in Windows. I figure "better safe than sorry" when it comes to hard drives, so this one's getting swapped and RMAed.

I've had good luck with my previous Crucial M4 SSD and the MX500 I have now as a secondary drive, but I guess I lucked out by cherry-picking the best.

E: went ahead and picked up a WD.

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redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Solid choice. I was just curious more than anything. Figures.
Just realized I've been buying WD Blue SSDs. Couple 2TBs.

redeyes fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Feb 7, 2021

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