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WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



Gen 2 Optane review up
https://www.storagereview.com/review/intel-optane-ssd-p5800x-review

plz buy optane you know you need 100 DWPD

WhyteRyce fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Apr 6, 2021

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movax
Aug 30, 2008



WhyteRyce posted:

Gen 2 Optane review up
https://www.storagereview.com/review/intel-optane-ssd-p5800x-review

plz buy optane you know you need 100 DWPD

Wonder if the Chia miners will be all over this...

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



movax posted:

Wonder if the Chia miners will be all over this...

I stopped paying attention to the cryptocurrency thread awhile ago but I'm assuming you are talking about the alternative currencies that attempt to "fix" the bitcoin mining problem by making their mining algorithms huge memory hogs?

It would be fantastic to see the cost of this crammed into as many PCIe slots as possible on a board
https://www.shopblt.com/item/intel-optane-enterprise-1pk-ssd-dc/y543_ssdpf21q016tb01.html

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Does optane require write conditioning to reach steady state like nand?

I seem to recall it does.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



There is wear leveling stuff but the threshold and performance drop offs are no where near the same based off the extended workload benchmarks people have done

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

I was thinking about it more, Optane still uses DRAM right? I'm interested in drives for PCIe benchmarking but most NVMe SSDs are a pain because you have to precondition them before you can run write benchmarks. And then the performance drop off due to wear levelling after a lot of that, which Optane will mitigate. But the preconditioning, blargh. Currently use NVRAM devices because capacity doesn't matter just want raw speed! Only available in Gen3 though.

Another good option is GPUs using the ROCm/CUDA stuff but it's nice to have a variety of choices.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



I know Intel showed some cherry-picked benchmarks of Optane vs. NAND in sustained heavy workloads because it was one of the areas Optane clobbers NAND, but I don't recall where they are. Someone did put together a white paper on it's observed characteristics and had the following which should interest you
https://www.usenix.org/system/files/hotstorage19-paper-wu-kan.pdf

quote:

We now study the long-term performance of Optane SSD.
First, we explore its performance when the device gets full.
According to our experiments, there is no need to worry about
garbage collection in Optane SSD.
We examine sustained 4KB random and sequential writes
on Optane SSD and Flash SSD over three hours. The device
is completely unmapped using the trim command before each
experiment; the two devices tested share a similar capacity
(960GB vs. 1TB). We maintain QD= 32 for each workload.
Figure 10 presents sustained write performance. For Flash
SSD, after the device becomes full, write throughput drops
significantly because subsequent writes constantly trigger
garbage collection. After about 6000 seconds, write throughput stabilizes: sequential throughput is around 350MB/s and
random throughput is 170MB/s (only 7% of the maximum
throughput). The throughput of sequential writes is better
than random because of lower garbage collection cost. Different from Flash SSD, Optane SSD maintains maximum
throughput for sustained writes. The flat throughput for
Optane SSD indicates no cost for garbage collection.

quote:

Optane SSD behaves quite differently; no
matter how we precondition the device, the pattern occurs
when reading according to LBA. Hence, Optane SSD likely
adopts LBA-based mapping. This design is enabled by 3D
XPoint memoryís capability to perform in-place updates. As
a result, Optane SSD doesnít require garbage collection and
can deliver sustainable performance over time.

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

Oh that's cool, thanks! I need to order us a couple now that it is now in the Q2 budget period.

It's ridiculous how much stuff we take for granted, I found someone was using an 11TB micron drive to tilt a lab monitor up

mmkay
Oct 21, 2010


priznat posted:

I was thinking about it more, Optane still uses DRAM right? I'm interested in drives for PCIe benchmarking but most NVMe SSDs are a pain because you have to precondition them before you can run write benchmarks. And then the performance drop off due to wear levelling after a lot of that, which Optane will mitigate. But the preconditioning, blargh. Currently use NVRAM devices because capacity doesn't matter just want raw speed! Only available in Gen3 though.

Another good option is GPUs using the ROCm/CUDA stuff but it's nice to have a variety of choices.

The reason NAND SSDs need preconditioning is that (especially) during random write workloads the data inside the drive will be increasingly defragmented (valid/invalid blocks) and it will need to relocate some of it in order to erase/program the next user input. This a) takes up bandwidth available to the user b) until the distribution of valid/invalid blocks is uniform across NAND dies, the performance will be unstable.

Both NAND and Optane still will do relocations due to wear leveling, but it's not anywhere near as significant as garbage collecting.


I don't believe Optane (SSDs) has the same magnitude of DRAM inside the drive as NAND (assuming this is what you mean), but don't quote me on that. The PM modules have DRAM for sure, but I don't recall any ratios there.

WonkyBob
Jan 1, 2013


priznat posted:

Oh that's cool, thanks! I need to order us a couple now that it is now in the Q2 budget period.

It's ridiculous how much stuff we take for granted, I found someone was using an 11TB micron drive to tilt a lab monitor up

Ooff I try to quietly correct stuff like that, maybe throw in a "don't use this item like that again, please" because there are guys in my department who would absolutely respond with "that is worth about £6000 and I'm going to get you sacked for negligence".

priznat
Jul 7, 2009

Let's get drunk and kiss each other all night.

WonkyBob posted:

Ooff I try to quietly correct stuff like that, maybe throw in a "don't use this item like that again, please" because there are guys in my department who would absolutely respond with "that is worth about £6000 and I'm going to get you sacked for negligence".

Iím just happy when the jr engineers donít carry the 300k analyzers around by their cables. Itís really shocking the disregard people often have towards expensive equipment!

WonkyBob
Jan 1, 2013


priznat posted:

Iím just happy when the jr engineers donít carry the 300k analyzers around by their cables. Itís really shocking the disregard people often have towards expensive equipment!

Always seems like it's due to the "I didn't pay for it so why should I care" mentality. I've seen people slamming work provided ipads on desks but treat THEIR device as though it was a newborn...

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



I know yall don't need to see any more benchmarks to know that PCIe 4 drives can throw big numbers... but here have some anyway!

I picked up a 1tb WD SN850 after reading some reviews, to replace a 970 Evo that is going in a new build for my brother. The Evo was cloned in situ, and is a full realworld situation. And yeah, the Evo was mostly full but again, real world install and should have its full cache available with the space left.

Here is the 970 Evo on an i7 8700K/Z370:



And the SN850 on the same platform (so limited to PCIe 3).



Still a small improvement, but nothing impressive. Now lets move that same drive/install over to a 5950X build:



Niiiiiice.

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admiraldennis
Jul 22, 2003

I am the stone that builder refused
I am the visual
The inspiration
That made lady sing the blues


Cygni posted:



Niiiiiice.

Well into DDR2 speeds on the sequentials!

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