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Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars




Plaster Town Cop

anyway are there any issues with the 2TB TLC silicon power NVMe?

Oh gently caress a duck they changed out the controller without changing the SKU. Performance went from 'meh' to 'dogshit'.

It really is samsung or loot box, huh?

E: Lol WTF is this chart even trying to show, is this a parody?
https://www.storagereview.com/review/xpg-gammix-s50-lite-pcie-4-0-ssd-review


E2:

This is pcie3 so i'm not too concerned with getting a 4.0 drive. Threadripper 2920x so next upgrade will probably be threadripper 69x0 series, at which point i'll be buying 4tb PCIe 4 nvme.

Ok, so the sabrent rocket (3.0) has great revie.... oh it's been downgraded without a SKU change too. gently caress capitalism, gently caress marketing, gently caress beancounters.

Harik fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Apr 19, 2021

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Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



Harik posted:

It really is samsung or loot box, huh?

WD also does in-house controllers and so doesn't pull that poo poo, just don't expect to save a ton on the high end drives compared to Samsung.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars




Plaster Town Cop

yeah they cost exactly as much as samsung so might as well just buy the best.

e: or more, lol. black sn850 $380, 980 pro $350.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



SN850 and 980 Pro are the two best drives in the market and functionally the same, although the 980 Pro has a trim bug that wrecks some peoples drives potentially forever so Samsung has been slashing prices.

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



I am certainly not mad that I happened to be browsing 2TB drives on pcpartpicker when I found the SN750 on sale for $215 a few weeks ago.

Especially when I was considering the SN550 for $10 more, lol.

GRINDCORE MEGGIDO
Feb 28, 1985




Cygni posted:

SN850 and 980 Pro are the two best drives in the market and functionally the same, although the 980 Pro has a trim bug that wrecks some peoples drives potentially forever so Samsung has been slashing prices.

Oh, Samsung.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!


Testing mine. Oh the joy of new tech.
[edit] yep hosed. fun!!!

redeyes fucked around with this message at 23:28 on Apr 19, 2021

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

I'M JUST HERE TO KISS TITTIESS AND WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!
(AND GET EVERYBODY FIRED)


For older laptops (in this case, a Dell Latitude e7470), I like to replace the old SSD with a Crucial P5. Is there a better choice to consider?

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

For older laptops (in this case, a Dell Latitude e7470), I like to replace the old SSD with a Crucial P5. Is there a better choice to consider?

Yes: the P5 is one of the most power-hungry, hottest NVMe drives around and IMO not a good choice for a laptop.

The SK Hynix P31 is the polar opposite: super low power use and heat. But it's still in the same performance zone as a P5, SN750, and other best-of-PCIe3 class drives.

(the one thing to be aware of is that the S31 is a sata drive, and the packaging is near identical. iirc a goon earlier ITT ordered a P31 and got a S31, probably because an amazon warehouse worker has 0.3 seconds to grab a box from the shelf.)

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

I'M JUST HERE TO KISS TITTIESS AND WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!
(AND GET EVERYBODY FIRED)


Thanks!

Edit: looking for something in the 240/250/256GB range, got anything comparable?

TITTIEKISSER69 fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Apr 20, 2021

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

Thanks!

Edit: looking for something in the 240/250/256GB range, got anything comparable?

Note that if you're going for a small drive you won't get performance results equal to reviewed larger-capacity drives, even from the high-performance model lines. Parallel IO to multiple flash chips is a big part of performance and a 256 GB drive these days only has two flash chips. That means at least half the controller's bandwidth to the flash is basically unused, so the controller doesn't really matter very much.


The next best for power use after the sk hynix are bog-standard phision e12 drives like an adata XPG 8200 Pro or a HP EX920, those are available in ~256 size.

Max Wilco
Jan 22, 2012

I'm just trying to go through life without looking stupid.

It's not working out too well...

Klyith posted:

There's that, but these days you kinda have to look hard to find PSUs that are actively hateful. And cooling is almost always gonna be adequate on day 1. I believe that there's a way bigger factor in play that's 100% psychological.


Say someone gets the fancy $300 racing stripes mobo that every website says "amazing, Gold Star award" and the only thing in the cons list is "expensive!", and they bungle the build. In that case they are probably predisposed to take a 2nd and 3rd look at things. They know they've got the best stuff, the starting assumption is that it should work great, so there's an easier path to blaming themselves.

On the other had you have someone who buys the cheap mobo because it's what they can afford, and they know it's not the best, and they bungle it. For that person the bias is very different, maybe the mobo is just crap. How thoroughly they review their own work & make efforts to troubleshoot problems is gonna be influenced by that.

There are a lotta people in this world for whom "maybe I hosed up" is not a natural thought.


The computer I have was built at a local shop back in 2015. It only included the main SSD (Samsung 850 EVO 500GB), which still seems to be fine, based on what Crystal Disk says (Health Status is 'Good - 93%'). I added the HDD in 2015 myself because I was hurting for space, and I added the other SSD about two years ago (I asked about it here, because I was having trouble figuring it out).

The power supply on this computer has been replaced, along with the video card from when I first bought it (it was sometime in 2017; it had an issue where there was an error, and the power supply wasn't strong enough, causing the computer to shut down on its own; it now has a Corsair CX850M, which still seems to be working fine). The motherboard is a ASUS Z97-A-USB31.

I know I've hosed up when it comes to installation. With the second SSD, I initially used a WD Blue, but I used a cord from the old power supply by accident, and it shorted the drive (at least I think that's what happened, based on what I asked about at the time).

Point I'm trying to make is that I err on the side of "I'll probably gently caress up, so I need to double make sure I'm doing it right and check it with other people before making a decision."

TITTIEKISSER69
Mar 19, 2005

I'M JUST HERE TO KISS TITTIESS AND WIN FOOTBALL GAMES!
(AND GET EVERYBODY FIRED)


Klyith posted:

Note that if you're going for a small drive you won't get performance results equal to reviewed larger-capacity drives, even from the high-performance model lines. Parallel IO to multiple flash chips is a big part of performance and a 256 GB drive these days only has two flash chips. That means at least half the controller's bandwidth to the flash is basically unused, so the controller doesn't really matter very much.


The next best for power use after the sk hynix are bog-standard phision e12 drives like an adata XPG 8200 Pro or a HP EX920, those are available in ~256 size.

Thanks, trying to be budget conscious and keep it around $50ish, I already replaced the screen ($80) and I've ordered a new battery ($43), so I don't want to spend too much more if I can help it. This is for my brother and his storage needs are small, I just want an SSD snappy enough to make up for the age of this laptop. Performance demands will include lots of browser tabs and occasional Zooms.

I had originally used the Crucial P2 when refurbing this model (for work), but installing Windows on that alone was abysmal. I then switched to the P5, noted the improved performance, and reissued the laptop. So I never noticed the heat and power traits.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


TITTIEKISSER69 posted:

Thanks, trying to be budget conscious and keep it around $50ish, I already replaced the screen ($80) and I've ordered a new battery ($43), so I don't want to spend too much more if I can help it. This is for my brother and his storage needs are small, I just want an SSD snappy enough to make up for the age of this laptop. Performance demands will include lots of browser tabs and occasional Zooms.

I had originally used the Crucial P2 when refurbing this model (for work), but installing Windows on that alone was abysmal.

Aha, got it. So what you encountered with that P2 is QLC write performance when you run out of SLC buffer, which is awful. And on a 256GB drive you have a very small buffer. (My god selling 256gb QLC drives should probably be criminal.)

So for your purposes you're good with anything that's cheap & not a QLC drive, which right now the current low price candidate is a HP EX900 for only $40. It's TLC which is the main thing you care about, and has no major downsides for that purpose.

quote:

I then switched to the P5, noted the improved performance, and reissued the laptop. So I never noticed the heat and power traits.
Heat you wouldn't notice unless you gave the drive a workout, and the power thing you have to read reviews to know that it has way higher idle power consumption than other drives. So maybe you get 5 minutes less battery life, not a huge deal.

KinkyJohn
Sep 18, 2002



Is the new Mushkin Delta 1TB pcie4 a decent drive? I have a 5600x and b550 msi aorus elite v2 so my system should be able to do pcie4 presumably

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


KinkyJohn posted:

Is the new Mushkin Delta 1TB pcie4 a decent drive? I have a 5600x and b550 msi aorus elite v2 so my system should be able to do pcie4 presumably

Delta is a QLC drive, so read performance is always good but write performance is abysmal in condition where you run out of SLC (large writes, filling the drive over like 80% full). Maybe that doesn't matter, for example if this is a games drive, but as a general system drive IMO I'd rather have TLC or at least a big 2TB drive to deal with QLC.


But also buying PCIe 4.0 drives right now is just pretty dumb all around. They cost a hefty premium over 3.0 drives, and nothing uses 4.0 read speed.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars




Plaster Town Cop

Klyith posted:

The next best for power use after the sk hynix are bog-standard phision e12 drives like an adata XPG 8200 Pro or a HP EX920, those are available in ~256 size.

The XPG 8200 pro was silicon motion SM2262ENG, not phison e12. It's been downgraded twice since the reviews.

E: My lootbox contained a SM2262G for my 512g 8200 pro

So I got an 8200 instead, but for a higher price. YAY ME! Basically they quit making the pro line and just labeled their 8200 production as "pro". gently caress them so hard.

At this point reviewers should just do the right thing and ignore the given hardware and review a $5 USB keyfob for companies playing these lovely games. There's zero reason to put your weight behind a blatant lie.

Harik fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Apr 20, 2021

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Yet another reason that PCIe 4.0 isn't a must-have right now: DirectStorage will work with PCIe 3 drives when it comes out.

Harik
Sep 9, 2001

From the hard streets of Moscow
First dog to touch the stars




Plaster Town Cop

That's still bouncing through system RAM though, right?

Adata pinky swears they'll sell you the non-gimped model of the 8200 pro that's using the reviewed chipset: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TY2TN64

$209 after $30 'click' coupon. I fell for it, I'll know tomorrow if I got what I ordered or if they're getting a very angry return.



E: Got the SM2262ENG as advertised, nice.

Harik fucked around with this message at 00:17 on Apr 24, 2021

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



Yeah the initial release of DirectStorage is a faster path for SSD->RAM->GPU, a Microsoft rep mentioned that a SSD->GPU path is on the roadmap for a future update

I suspect the latter route will be like ReBAR in that it was theoretically always possible but ends up requiring a concerted effort from all the hardware players to get it working reliably

repiv fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Apr 22, 2021

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule



I am sure this is going to be the wrong thread but hey it has smart goons and SSDs:

My Gigabyte 240GB SSD is borked. Please advise if there is a way to get it working again (I don't care about data, only to see if I can get it operational)

It shows in Disk Management but when trying to initialize it will disconnect and reconnect:

Before anyone asks... yes it's Disc 16. That isn't something funky. I have a D2600 connected doing PLEX things.


Some errors in Event Viewer for those that might be smart enough to help:









A GUI partition error checker fucken HATES it and its at time of posting almost 12 hours into a quick scan:


Diskpart causes it to crash on initial read (same wsort of errors as above in Event Viewer). Background is that this SSD was a primary boot drive for a bog standard Win10 install. It's not even old enough to have issues IMO, poo poo I still have an OCZ SSD running fine - that company doesnt even exist anymore?!

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Humphreys posted:

My Gigabyte 240GB SSD is borked. Please advise if there is a way to get it working again (I don't care about data, only to see if I can get it operational)

Look at it with CrystalDiskInfo and see what that says. Post a screenshot if you need help interpreting the different values.

Also, if you have another PC to try it with (or an external usb caddy) that's always a good troubleshooting step with possibly-busted drives.


Could be that it got a bad batch of nand and is already failing out. That sometimes happens, and is a reason that some people prefer to buy SSDs from companies that make their own flash (samsung, WD/sandisk, crucial, & now sk hynix).

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule



Klyith posted:

Look at it with CrystalDiskInfo and see what that says. Post a screenshot if you need help interpreting the different values.

Also, if you have another PC to try it with (or an external usb caddy) that's always a good troubleshooting step with possibly-busted drives.


Could be that it got a bad batch of nand and is already failing out. That sometimes happens, and is a reason that some people prefer to buy SSDs from companies that make their own flash (samsung, WD/sandisk, crucial, & now sk hynix).

I think this thing is cooked (running over a USB hub)



Oh and this isn't first computer I've tried, just my nerd station.

Humphreys fucked around with this message at 15:55 on May 1, 2021

TOOT BOOT
May 25, 2010



The only and only time I had problems with an SSD drive it ended up being the SATA cable instead of the drive.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!



I just had an Adata XPG 128GB NVMe die in a laptop, first dead SSD I've seen since OCZ. It does happen, though. I doubt there's going to be a way to get that Gigabyte working again if it's choking just trying to initialize. The upside of the speeds and durability does balance against the downsides of when they're broken they're basically bricks.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Some motherboards now come with a secure erase tool in the BIOS. If your motherboard does, you could always try using that on the drive to wipe it completely and see if it can be brought back at all.
Edit: to be on the safe side, I would disconnect all other drives before doing this (just so you don't get the wrong one erased somehow) and it might not work over USB.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Rexxed posted:

The upside of the speeds and durability does balance against the downsides of when they're broken they're basically bricks.

No high-power magnets to harvest and play with or use on the fridge? Clearly inferior technology.

Bofast posted:

Some motherboards now come with a secure erase tool in the BIOS. If your motherboard does, you could always try using that on the drive to wipe it completely and see if it can be brought back at all.
Edit: to be on the safe side, I would disconnect all other drives before doing this (just so you don't get the wrong one erased somehow) and it might not work over USB.

You can access ATA secure erase in linux (including off a live usb stick) on any mobo, the instructions are mildly convoluted but not difficult.

Though for a dead SSD I'd rather just hit it with a hammer for a bit than try to make secure erase work on a drive that can't even report its smart attributes. Much more satisfying.

Of course I neither work for, nor am a person of interest to, the CIA.

Humphreys
Jan 26, 2013

We conceived a way to use my mother as a porn mule



Thanks goons. I might open it up for fun and see what I can see.

Humphreys fucked around with this message at 04:01 on May 2, 2021

EVIL Gibson
Mar 23, 2001

Internet of Things is just someone else's computer that people can't help attaching cameras and door locks to!


Switchblade Switcharoo

This has happened to me a couple times but is there a way to stop an ssd from preventing a boot?

The last ssd that went bad last week was a Kingston Digital SSDNow UV400 240GB which I had for five years. It had a life of first boot drive for windows 7, then a cache/log drive for ZFS, and then sat on my Windows 10 box using it for machine learning storage and swap space .

It failed but as long as this drive is connected to the motherboard on boot, it's very existence prevents windows or Linux from booting. I think the bios has to know it is there because I noted the error/status code for the BIOS shows the MB is done with everything and executes the final ide/sata handoff.

I've had two Samsungs and several OCZ do this as well. I've heard of upgrading their firmware helps, but do controllers just die and just return constant garbage so the boot process just freezes?

Yes, the SMART for them is filthed up but except for the OCZs they are not in bad states yet.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



i am still in the build process, should I steer away from the Samsung 980 then?

Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



Alan Smithee posted:

i am still in the build process, should I steer away from the Samsung 980 then?

It primarily comes down to price, and the WD SN550 tends to be cheaper while performaing about the same. If I was in the market, I'd still keep an eye on the Samsung in case of a sale.

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



I've heard whispers about issues with the Samsung 980, particularly the 1tb, what's the lowdown?

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Klyith posted:

No high-power magnets to harvest and play with or use on the fridge? Clearly inferior technology.


You can access ATA secure erase in linux (including off a live usb stick) on any mobo, the instructions are mildly convoluted but not difficult.

Though for a dead SSD I'd rather just hit it with a hammer for a bit than try to make secure erase work on a drive that can't even report its smart attributes. Much more satisfying.

Of course I neither work for, nor am a person of interest to, the CIA.

I meant the secure erase could be tested to see if it will make the drive work again, not for deleting the data (though it should do that, too). It's a long shot, though

kliras
Mar 27, 2021


Alan Smithee posted:

I've heard whispers about issues with the Samsung 980, particularly the 1tb, what's the lowdown?
I think an update dropped this Friday that fixes it, but before that, write speed crashed to ~1,000 because the TRIM feature was broken.

Test: https://www.cdrlabs.com/reviews/samsung-980-pro-2tb-pcie-nvme-solid-state-drive/trim-performance.html

Fix: https://linustechtips.com/topic/1262379-samsung-980-pro-1tb-slow-write-speeds/?tab=comments#comment-14692044

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Applied firmware update. Worked. Nice. 980Pro back in business.

Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twwyBdsRYL4

lol

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

TL;DR: Don't even consider buying used SSDs now unless you've got a means of getting your money back.

Killer_B
May 22, 2005


I have been looking at getting a 1-2TB nvme drive for a new build, folks seem to recommend the SN550 at the minimum, it seems as all the recent chia hype has made the 2TB models get socked with the scalper/farming tax.

Outside of say, the SN750s, were there any other manufacturers I might look at outside of Samsung?

It would be getting used as a boot drive; the 1TB models rose a bit, but not as ridiculously as the 2TB models.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



I keep thinking that I should use chia at my job to try and kill drives but I know multiple people that have been fired or almost fired for using Bitcoin to do stress and validation so probably not the best idea

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Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Killer_B posted:

I have been looking at getting a 1-2TB nvme drive for a new build, folks seem to recommend the SN550 at the minimum, it seems as all the recent chia hype has made the 2TB models get socked with the scalper/farming tax.

Outside of say, the SN750s, were there any other manufacturers I might look at outside of Samsung?

It would be getting used as a boot drive; the 1TB models rose a bit, but not as ridiculously as the 2TB models.



The SN550 is IMO more or less the perfect drive for an average budget-conscious system builder. It's cheap, TLC, and has no major gotchas. DRAMless drives are absolutely fine for normal desktop users: the workloads that choke without the ram cache are server & workstation stuff.

For $10 more, the HP EX920 is a step above the SN550 and a step below the SN750.


Also it doesn't look to me like 2TB drives really jumped in price at all, at least in the US. They've always been sold at a premium compared to 1TB, more than double the price. Firstly a number of low-cost models don't have 2TB models so there's less downward price influence. Second, all the mfrs generally are like, anyone who wants a 2TB ssd is probably an enthusiast who we can gouge a bit.

Prices on SSDs are a little bit up across the board, just like prices on everything silicon.

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