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craig588
Nov 19, 2005



I have an Ubuntu installation on a USB drive for anytime I need to look at strange computers. Ubuntu seems to have fallen out of favor and everyone says "no don't do that" but it seems to work fine for me.

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



Honestly if the BIOS isnt seeing it, in all likelihood nothing else is going to either. You can boot from a USB to check out the other drives, though. I assume you swapped SATA plugs on the motherboard around too?

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Yeah if BIOS fails to detect a drive you don't try a software solution, you try different cables, controllers and computers.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003



Armacham posted:

Update for my saga. I was able to borrow a spare 2.5" drive from someone and it was recognized fine. Guess I'll see if Samsung wants to try replacing it again without it disappearing for 3 weeks again. In the mean time I was able to convince dell to send me a new interposer cable for free.

You could also try a USB-SATA adapter, that would eliminate any possible problems with the motherboard controller or SATA cable. Such an adapter could be useful to have around anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-SATA-P.../dp/B014OSN2VW/

Knifegrab posted:

Is there bootable software I can load onto a usb drive to confirm my suspicions that my ssd is toast? My bios attempts to detect it saying "Auto detecting SATA1..." but it hangs there for a while, then jumps to a "Please insert a boot drive, or restart" screen. It doesn't even show up in my bios or boot menu when all my others do. I have tried swapping cables too so that is not the issue.

Anyone have any recommendations for that software?

The opinion from others that this won't be fixed by different OS is most likely correct, but there are a multitude of different software that can be used for this. There are dozen different Linux distributions that can be used from USB stick without installing. Knoppix is a full desktop environment designed to be run only from CD or USB drive. System Rescue CD is a small Linux normally used from command line. Hiren's Boot CD is a large collection of different tools including HDD diagnostics, partition and disk management software and even a Windows XP PE that can be used from single USB drive.

My suggestion is to have at least USB sticks with System Rescue CD and Hiren's Boot CD lying around permanently so you don't need to start creating them when the need arises.

SamDabbers
May 26, 2003

Oh my god...

Lipstick Apathy

A while ago, I got a used Acer Veriton desktop with an Ivy Bridge Pentium in it for my mom off eBay for around $60 shipped. Why was it so cheap? For some reason, the BIOS will not boot from any SATA hard drive or SSD connected to it. It will recognize the drive, but it is unselectable in the boot order screen. Booting from USB works fine, and I verified that the drive showed up using a Linux live USB.

My solution was to keep a USB stick with GRUB on it plugged in, configured to chainload the Windows bootloader on the first hard disk with no delay or menu. I set the partition type to FAT32 (Hidden) and it doesn't show up in My Computer. Windows acts like it isn't even there and boots right up.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

Saukkis posted:

You could also try a USB-SATA adapter, that would eliminate any possible problems with the motherboard controller or SATA cable. Such an adapter could be useful to have around anyway.
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-SATA-P.../dp/B014OSN2VW/

Yeah I'm gonna borrow one from a friend next week and check that out

CFox
Nov 9, 2005


Armacham posted:

This may be worth it's own thread in the support forum, but I thought I would ask this here first. I'm trying to install a Samsung 850 EVO in the 2.5" slot of my laptop.

My 7577 has the same issue, looking over the dell community forums there's others having the same issues. It just seems like some 2.5" drives won't work while others will.

Evil Crouton
Oct 4, 2004

The Amish scare me

Planning to replace my boot drive and haven't played around with NVMe drives before. I'm replacing an old 256gb 850 pro with a 960 evo tomorrow. Does the ASUS Z170-A have any quirks I need to look out for?

BIG HEADLINE
Jun 13, 2006

Make your move...'cause mine's gonna be ugly.

Evil Crouton posted:

Planning to replace my boot drive and haven't played around with NVMe drives before. I'm replacing an old 256gb 850 pro with a 960 evo tomorrow. Does the ASUS Z170-A have any quirks I need to look out for?

You might want to update to BIOS 3703 as it specifically mentions remedying a "Samsung M.2 device issue." Also, Samsung's drivers tend to be faster than Windows'.

Here's the Station Drivers page for the Z170-A: http://www.station-drivers.com/inde...mid=169&lang=fr

And here's a download link for the most recent Samsung NVMe drivers: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details...r-download.html

Oh, and even though you definitely want to just keep it around and disable it from running on startup, Magician 5.2: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details...gician-4-5.html

Seems you might want to hold off on uploading the most recent 960 EVO firmware: https://us.community.samsung.com/t5...ble/td-p/213624

BIG HEADLINE fucked around with this message at Feb 4, 2018 around 06:56

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

CFox posted:

My 7577 has the same issue, looking over the dell community forums there's others having the same issues. It just seems like some 2.5" drives won't work while others will.

This is very irritating. I hope I didn't spend money on a drive I can't actually use...

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005



Does anyone here have experience using one of the 900p Optane drives as a boot drive? I'm putting together a new system, and I'm on the fence about shelling out the extra cash relative to a more traditional NVMe SSD. Are the Optane drives significantly faster?

Also, for the motherboard I'm using, I'd have to go with U.2 form factor, using an m.2 adapter. Is there any downside to that in terms of speed, compared to the HHHL?

craig588
Nov 19, 2005



Are you going to do any sort of pro work like running VMs or databases? I have a 960 evo and it does benchmark very well, but I don't really notice a difference over my old 840 pro and knowing the real world difference is so small for consumer workloads I'm planning to go with another SATA drive in the future as long as they stay significantly cheaper.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005



craig588 posted:

Are you going to do any sort of pro work like running VMs or databases? I have a 960 evo and it does benchmark very well, but I don't really notice a difference over my old 840 pro and knowing the real world difference is so small for consumer workloads I'm planning to go with another SATA drive in the future as long as they stay significantly cheaper.
I'd primarily be using it for gaming.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

DID YOU KNOW: A ruddy duck produces huge eggs. A full clutch of eggs can weigh more than the hen that laid them!

~SMcD

Ersatz posted:

I'd primarily be using it for gaming.

you will not notice the difference, it's a waste of money.

(even a regular nvme drive like a 960pro is extremely marginal. at the current time, reading data from a fast SSD is not the bottleneck for video games, even in level loads. the difference between top-of-the-line nvme optane and a sata evo is inside the error bars for many games.)


e: people have put games on ramdrives and found no improvement versus a ssd

Klyith fucked around with this message at Feb 6, 2018 around 09:54

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014




Tortured By Flan

That optane holds no added benefits over a high end nvme to even hardcore mega gamers, especially after considering value.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





though if ram prices keep going up it might be worthwhile to use those lovely optane modules as purely swap

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014




Tortured By Flan

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

though if ram prices keep going up it might be worthwhile to use those lovely optane modules as purely swap

Yeesh

Buy, yeah

necrobobsledder
Mar 21, 2005
Lay down your soul to the gods rock 'n roll

All the high-end SSD performance characteristics fall squarely into “if you have to ask if you need / can benefit from it, you don’t need it or won’t benefit from it” territory. The closest thing to a gaming scenario that would materially benefit is if you’re multi boxing like 10 MMOs concurrently.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

CFox posted:

My 7577 has the same issue, looking over the dell community forums there's others having the same issues. It just seems like some 2.5" drives won't work while others will.

Okay so update on my issue. I had dell send me a new interposer cable and it's working fine now. I'm not sure why a cable would work with one drive and not another but who knows.

CFox
Nov 9, 2005


Armacham posted:

Okay so update on my issue. I had dell send me a new interposer cable and it's working fine now. I'm not sure why a cable would work with one drive and not another but who knows.

Oh really? Cool. I'm pretty sure my spare SSD is an 850 EVO so I'll hit them up for a new cable then.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

CFox posted:

Oh really? Cool. I'm pretty sure my spare SSD is an 850 EVO so I'll hit them up for a new cable then.

Good luck. I had to yell at them on twitter to get them to send me one without charging me, even though I'm in warranty

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005



Klyith posted:

you will not notice the difference, it's a waste of money.

(even a regular nvme drive like a 960pro is extremely marginal. at the current time, reading data from a fast SSD is not the bottleneck for video games, even in level loads. the difference between top-of-the-line nvme optane and a sata evo is inside the error bars for many games.)


e: people have put games on ramdrives and found no improvement versus a ssd
Cool - thanks.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005



Anime Schoolgirl posted:

though if ram prices keep going up it might be worthwhile to use those lovely optane modules as purely swap
Speaking of the lovely "Optane memory" modules, I know that Intel has designed them to only be usable with a primary drive, and they only really provide a speed boost for an HDD. So, using them in the intended way requires you to have a new motherboard, but to still be using an HDD as your boot drive. Is there any way to use the modules as cache for a secondary drive? Or are they really that useless?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

No Optane is a normal SSD now. Stop saying 'OMG GAMERZ WONT NOTICE A DIFFERENCE!!'. Disk performance is not that important for games and this is a dumb argument. On the other hand, people that DO use large data sets will notice a huge difference with faster SSDs.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





Ersatz posted:

Speaking of the lovely "Optane memory" modules, I know that Intel has designed them to only be usable with a primary drive, and they only really provide a speed boost for an HDD. So, using them in the intended way requires you to have a new motherboard
I'm going to stop you right there, nobody but OEMs actually do this.

Any motherboard with a PCIE M.2 slot can use a 32gb Optane module for swap, it's assumed you're using something else as the OS drive (preferably any SSD made in the last 4 years) and the reason to do so is the insane QD1 4k IOPs that Optane has.

Another reason to is that dram prices are going to shoot to the moon because lol lmao let's face it that's what's gonna happen until there's a breaking point (which is likely to be phone manufacturers at the end of this year or halfway into next year)

and they're coming out with 60/120 (58/118) actual OS drive sized Optane SSDs Soon™ (Q2).

nielsm
Jun 1, 2009




Fallen Rib

Does anyone know of research/whitepapers on the phenomenon of SSD NAND cells losing data if not refreshed once in a while? One of my EE friends doesn't believe this is a thing that actually happens.

Armacham
Mar 3, 2007

Then brothers in war, to the skirmish must we hence! Shall we hence?

nielsm posted:

Does anyone know of research/whitepapers on the phenomenon of SSD NAND cells losing data if not refreshed once in a while? One of my EE friends doesn't believe this is a thing that actually happens.

I did a google search for "nand cells losing data" and got about a million results.

Ex: http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewc...354&context=ece

Here's a good anandtech article about it too. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9248...-data-retention

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005



necrobobsledder posted:

All the high-end SSD performance characteristics fall squarely into “if you have to ask if you need / can benefit from it, you don’t need it or won’t benefit from it” territory. The closest thing to a gaming scenario that would materially benefit is if you’re multi boxing like 10 MMOs concurrently.
To be fair, I was multiboxing five instances of Eve Online a few years ago...

I definitely appreciate the collective feedback though. Looks like I'm going to pass on this particular Optane drive.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Armacham posted:

I did a google search for "nand cells losing data" and got about a million results.

Ex: http://repository.cmu.edu/cgi/viewc...354&context=ece

Here's a good anandtech article about it too. https://www.anandtech.com/show/9248...-data-retention

A real world example is I have a workstation with a Samsung 850 (PRO!). It's been in use for oh, 2 years. Suddenly my backup system was throwing an error there was an unreadable sector. And there WAS an unreadable sector. Just one, thankfully in some file that I had in a previous backup.

Point being, its possible and does happen even though the controller does everything it can to prevent it. Rare, yes.

BobHoward
Feb 13, 2012

The only thing white people deserve is a bullet to their empty skull


nielsm posted:

Does anyone know of research/whitepapers on the phenomenon of SSD NAND cells losing data if not refreshed once in a while? One of my EE friends doesn't believe this is a thing that actually happens.

An individual NAND cell is a bit like DRAM in that the idea is to trap some electrons in a device which amounts to a capacitor. NAND differs from DRAM in that reads disturb the existing state of charge much less, and leakage is close to zero. However, “much less” and “close to” are not the same as perfect. Tell them they should be ashamed as an EE to assume that it is physically possible to build the moral equivalent of a diode whose IV curve is a perfect 90 degree angle consisting of the -V and +I axes.

Rastor
Jun 2, 2001



You can't assume any storage device will retain data permanently, other than maybe m-disc. For all the other formats it's not a design goal. It's in their interest to deliver a certain amount of reliability, sure, but not 100%.

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

The major benefit for something like Intel's optane in m.2 or PCI-e would be a cache drive. The 900p SSDs have insane drive endurance, something like 10 drive writes per day for 5 years. The m.2 16gb and 32GB have a 100GB DWPD endurance for 5 years and the new 58 and 118GB versions have 200GB DWPD. The 16GB and 32GB would be great for regular Windows caching like pagefile and chrome cache. Then you get prosumer levels of endurance for things like video editing 4k potentially with the 58/118.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





https://www.anandtech.com/show/1240...-2tb-ssd-review

Not much better than the 850 EVO. Sick sequential benchmarks tho

However:



Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

https://www.anandtech.com/show/1240...-2tb-ssd-review

Not much better than the 850 EVO. Sick sequential benchmarks tho

However:





If I won the lottery I'd buy a pile of 2TB and 4TB drives and put them in everything I own.

OhFunny
Jun 26, 2013



https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/201...2-5-inch-drive/

Samsung's managed to make a 30TB 2.5inch SSD.

WhyteRyce
Dec 30, 2001



40GB of DDR

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



downside: costs as much as a midsize car
upside: you PROBABLY* wont need another SSD for a decade and a half or so?? TELL me thats not a good value!!




*probably

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