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redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

gently caress Adata and their substandard NAND

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Cygni
Nov 12, 2005

raring to post



ďAdata uses substandard nandĒ sounds like ďmy soundsystem has warmer soundĒ to me.

What does substandard nand even mean? Is the claim that they donít meet the speed or durability ratings on the box? And if so, what evidence is there?

I donít own any Adata products but I find it hard to believe that all the people who gave the 8200 good reviews missed some big scam.

Star War Sex Parrot
Oct 2, 2003



Muldoon

Cygni posted:

What does substandard nand even mean? Is the claim that they donít meet the speed or durability ratings on the box? And if so, what evidence is there?
I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel.

Just look at failure rates for that brand. It's not that they use some other NAND, they use the left overs the major companies don't use for themselves.

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


redeyes posted:

Just look at failure rates for that brand.
Sure, where can I see the real failure rates?

I'm reminded of how everyone thought seagate made the most reliable hard drives until backblaze started putting out hard data.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010

What is it with Japan and ridiculous hair colors?


Buglord

Klyith posted:

Sure, where can I see the real failure rates?

I'm reminded of how everyone who never owned a drive made by seagate thought they made the most reliable hard drives until backblaze started putting out hard data.

ftfy

SlayVus
Jul 10, 2009


Grimey Drawer

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

I'm curious whose "substandard NAND" they're accused of using. There are like, 6 manufacturers: Samsung, Toshiba, Sandisk/WD, Micron, Hynix, and Intel.

It could be that buying the outside ring of the wafers. Since the outside ring is going to have e the greatest number of defects, they just stick more chips in for the same capacity and use the extra chips for wear leveling. So they could be using the same chips Samsung uses for their pro series drives, but they're the rejects that even Samsung wouldn't use(Hypothetically). That's the only logical thing I can come to on the "substandard" NAND chips.

Anime Schoolgirl
Nov 28, 2002

~perfect~
battlebrother





the real difference between vendors is the warranty (and ADATA is historically notoriously poo poo), since inferior NAND binning is largely offloaded to house brands like inland or salvage dies like the BX500 (the MLC basically makes up for the inferior TLC retention there). SM/phison SSD controllers have more or less converged towards "competent" and the only real difference is custom firmware, with Micron's custom firmware being the best (yet they still refuse to put out a consumer NVMe drive....)

and you never worry about the NAND failing, the controller will poo poo itself long before that becomes a consideration, even with QLC on the horizon.

Anime Schoolgirl fucked around with this message at Sep 15, 2018 around 20:55

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Nobody who buys the Adata SSDs complains about them in the deals threads I monitor (which do feature a lot of previous purchasers sharing their opinions.) I mean I'm sure there are failures, but most users are happy with them, and if you use them as intended (i.e. the SU800 as a 2nd-tier OS drive or the SU650 as bulk storage) I'd bet you'd be satisfied with them.

Also on the subject of HDD reliability, my gaming desktop from 2013 has, no joke, a ST3000DM001 that's still working perfectly, ~5.5 years later, and I have another external one attached to the same PC that's been fine for a few years. As I wrote in a different thread a couple months ago, the latter drive was in a Buffalo USB enclosure (the one with 1 GB of DRAM for a write cache) that itself failed, but I shucked the drive and threw it in a new $20 enclosure and it works fine. So I'm aware that this drive model has a bad reputation, and the ones I'm using are long out of their warranty, but they're not in some ridiculous Backblaze storage pod and also they don't get a ton of usage given that I only run the gaming desktop a couple days a week (so maybe ~1k hours per year.)

Xenomorph
Jun 13, 2001


5.5 years?

I just stopped using a bunch of Maxtor drives with nearly 12 years of power-on time.

Maxtor made some crummy drives, from what I remember. I only stopped using the drives because they take up too much room for how big they are (500 GB each).

Klyith
Aug 3, 2007

GBS Pledge Week


Xenomorph posted:

5.5 years?

I just stopped using a bunch of Maxtor drives with nearly 12 years of power-on time.

Maxtor made some crummy drives, from what I remember. I only stopped using the drives because they take up too much room for how big they are (500 GB each).

It's notable because the seagate drives of that series are now known to be poo poo for reliability. But not quite so poo poo that it's worth pre-emptively throwing them away like the old deathstars.

my HDD that died earlier this summer was a ST2000DM. I knew it was sketchy so I didn't have any personal data on it other than a few videogame saves. But even losing poo poo that I could torrent again is annoying. Mine had a lot of power on hours racked up, more than Atomizer it sounds like.

Atomizer
Jun 24, 2007

Bote McBoteface. so what


Xenomorph posted:

5.5 years?

I just stopped using a bunch of Maxtor drives with nearly 12 years of power-on time.

Maxtor made some crummy drives, from what I remember. I only stopped using the drives because they take up too much room for how big they are (500 GB each).

What Klyith said; you should really Google that model number to see what I was talking about. Certainly there are functioning drives (in general) with more time and power cycles, but those Seagates are ticking bombs if you believed what you'd read about them, and then there's that class-action lawsuit on top of all that.... I'm not saying they're perfect or conversely as bad as that Backblaze report indicated though. My point was that I'd realized I had a couple of those drives in service after learning of their reputation. And my estimate from my previous post was right, the older drive of the two I mentioned only has about 5.5k hours after 5.5 years of use. Part of the reason it's been reliable, I'm sure, is the relatively low workload, but also the fact that it's in a consumer desktop as intended rather than in a high-vibration storage pod.

I do have other drives around with far more power-on time, i.e. 20k+, and they all still work; the only dead drive I've encountered in recent memory was a 1 TB 2.5" Toshiba(?) from a gaming laptop that simply died even though it had seen very little use.

And wow, I haven't seen a Maxtor drive in years, and until you mentioned them I hadn't realized they weren't around anymore. I just learned they were bought in 2006 by...Seagate.

Since we're on the subject, I went through a box of older HDDs that I'd removed from PCs to make it easier to wipe them in an enclosure. (I did find a few 20-80 GB Maxtor PATA HDDs but they're too small to bother dealing with.) I think 500 GB is capacious enough to still be useful, and am trying to find uses for the lower-capacity drives. I put 3x 250 GB SATA drives striped together in a Shuttle XPC, and they make a nice 750 GB array of 200 MB/s r/w for some games on that older PC. Beyond that, I've got a bunch of 250 GB drives and a handful of 120 & 160 GB ones; they're definitely of limited usefulness, but remember that 120-256 GB SSDs are still useful (for their performance, despite their capacity,) and ultimately they're a cheap (free) way to store some games. The lower-capacity 2.5" drives are more valuable than the 3.5" ones since the former can just go in a cheap <$10 external enclosure and become portable storage, with a single cable and no extra power supply to deal with.

Also along these lines, a lot of the older (120-250 GB) drives are PATA, and before I dug them up again I didn't really remember how much I appreciate SATA! Not just for the faster transfer rates and added functions, but those loving ribbon cables and 40-pin connectors, plus the molex power connectors, are sometimes a pain in the rear end to work with! Another issue is squeezing all of the performance out of them, since they're not going to be mounted in a desktop tower, they have to go in an external enclosure. There aren't any native PATA-USB3 enclosures; they're all USB2 and that's still enough of a bottleneck for even the 120 GB drive I benchmarked (they all hit ~35 MB/s r/w sequential.) The best I've found is PATA-eSATA, and I have a couple of desktops with at least 300 MB/s eSATA; on top of that I discovered there are eSATA-USB3 cables, so hopefully that will make that enclosure practically universal. I'll be playing around with that and running benchmarks over the next week or two.

One of the 500 GB drives has uncorrectable sectors, and another has reallocated sectors, per CDI. I ran the WD software (including a long scan) on the WD drive, however, and it didn't report any issues; from what I've researched, each manufacturer determines what values are within spec, so CDI is throwing up a general warning but at least the one drive is still "fine" per WD (the other one is a different brand and I haven't gotten around to investigating it yet.) Certainly the safe thing to do would be to toss the drives, but if they're still functional I figure it's fine to throw some games on there until they die.

ChiralCondensate
Nov 13, 2007

what is that man doing to his colour palette?


The first HD I bought with my own money, a Maxtor 853 MB, still spins up nicely. Time to put it in my mergerfs setup and see how long it will last.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I still put Maxtors out of service from time to time. They were good drives.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010

What is it with Japan and ridiculous hair colors?


Buglord

redeyes posted:

I still put Maxtors out of service from time to time. They were good drives.

I literally just finished wiping some Maxtor drives to give to the thrift store or something. They're fine, but their power on hours timers in SMART have rolled over so they're now reporting only 350 hours of use or something. While in reality they've ran 24/7 for years in an old homeserver that didn't spin the disks down.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Geemer posted:

I literally just finished wiping some Maxtor drives to give to the thrift store or something. They're fine, but their power on hours timers in SMART have rolled over so they're now reporting only 350 hours of use or something. While in reality they've ran 24/7 for years in an old homeserver that didn't spin the disks down.

In general they could do more iops than other drives which translated to a more responsive desktop.

Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


A friend of mine gave me a gift. I can store all the data I hate and don't ever want to see again on them!


Uploading myposts.txt.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

W o o F


I thought they were coasters. Checks thread title... oh.

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Rexxed
May 1, 2010

Dis is amazing!
I gotta try dis!


Yeah my phone camera's been acting up so my photos seem fuzzy which doesn't help. Maybe I should clean the lens. Meh.

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