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Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




SlayVus posted:

If you want to reduce writes to the drive, move internet browser cache to an hdd, change default download location to hdd, turn off hibernation if OS is on SSD. That's what I can come up with, some will disagree with me on the first two options, but those are just my opinion.

Except don't bother doing any of these things because the drive will be just fine without babying it.

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Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




redeyes posted:

Steady state occurs when a drive has burned through its buffers and has to directly write and read to the NAND. Consumer models can sustain high levels for shorter amounts of time and are tuned for bursts of i/o whereas enterprise drives are tuned to provide better performance while in steady-state.

Benchmarks tend to hit worst-case scenereos so this means more i/o than the buffers can take and then you get to see steady-state performance.

On a consumer machine you will probably never reach a steady-state.

Tell that to my 256 GB Samsung 830 back when I was installing GTAV and had just cleared out 35 GB of stuff to make room for it. Turns out Steam's way of reserving the space is the old-fashioned write-a-giant-empty-file method.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Double Punctuation posted:

The "Turn hard disk off" setting does nothing for an SSD, so you can turn it off.

On the flip side: why would you? At best leaving it enabled will give a few minutes more battery life and at worst it will have no detrimental effect (because SSDs don't need to spin up any platters).

Hibernate and hybrid sleep are pretty much down to personal preference. It's not like you need to coddle your SSD to prevent writes anymore.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




redeyes posted:

Samsung has a secure erase utility worth trying. Most likely you will have to pull the power cable out of the SSD while booted with the secure erase utility, then plug back in. The drives are locked at boot up and pulling power fixes that for some reason.

Imagine if they weren't and cryptolocker type malware would secure erase your SSD after the countdown expired.

Requiring the user to fiddle with the power plug while the system is powered on is a nice way to prevent just that from happening and I'm still amazed that viruses/malware targeting the BIOS haven't gotten back in vogue now that they're all flashable from within Windows.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




redeyes posted:

If the BSOD mentions anything about windows system files, generally its RAM memory. Could also be corrupt HD but usually RAMs.

Counterpoint: When my old video card was dying it caused BSODs for ntoskrnl exclusively, instead of the AMD drivers like you'd have expected.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




lllllllllllllllllll posted:

This is a bit silly, but I'll ask. I'm about to build a PC for someone who will turn it on maybe twice a week, if at all. Is that too sparely for a ssd? I heard that's not good for them? I doubt there is data for reliability when used rarely?

I have an SSD in my laptop that I maybe use once or twice per year, if that. It's totally fine.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Bob Morales posted:

SSD's are not for long-term data storage when powered off.



Am I reading this chart correctly? Is retention time really significantly improved by writing at 55C and then storing at 25C (or probably colder) over writing at ambient temperatures?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Potato Salad posted:

Squirrel burying acorns with microSDs inserted would be pretty resilient storage

Throw your microSD card down a crevasse of an actual glacier.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




I'm on 256 GB for roughly 4-5 years and it is fine if you don't want to install more than a small handful of Steam games at a time. But to be honest, I really loving hate that I have to uninstall games the moment I wanna try a different one I just bought in the sale.

I've been seriously thinking of just getting a bigger one because 256 is too small. Especially with SSD prices being much lower nowadays.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Secure erase the SSDs, completely overwrite the HDDs.

Or just open the HDDs and use the platters as tiny mirrors to scare birds or something. Bonus: Get some strong magnets out of it as well.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Lambert posted:

ATA Secure Erase for both of them, HDDs support it as well.

I did not know that. Last time I read up on it I read that it bricked HDDs. But that's probably only for old ones, with newer ones supporting it. How would that differ from completely overwriting, though?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Lambert posted:

It ensures reserved/retired sectors are overwritten as well. Also, with newer drives, there's no guarantee the sector mapping the OS sees corresponds to the actual layout of the data on the drive (with Shingled Magnetic Recording, for example).

ATA Secure Erase doesn't brick drives. But if you remove power before the drive is finished secure erasing, you'll have to manually unlock it with an ATA command before it becomes operable again. That's probably where the "bricked" stories stem from.

Thanks for the explanation!

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Klyith posted:

Sure, where can I see the real failure rates?

I'm reminded of how everyone who never owned a drive made by seagate thought they made the most reliable hard drives until backblaze started putting out hard data.

ftfy

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




redeyes posted:

I still put Maxtors out of service from time to time. They were good drives.

I literally just finished wiping some Maxtor drives to give to the thrift store or something. They're fine, but their power on hours timers in SMART have rolled over so they're now reporting only 350 hours of use or something. While in reality they've ran 24/7 for years in an old homeserver that didn't spin the disks down.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Windows XP doesn't even know what an SSD is and has no notion of TRIM whatsoever.
I think some vendors did include manual trim options in their toolkits back in the day, but good luck hunting down a version that'll still run on XP. Other than that, you've done pretty much everything you can do to make XP more SSD-friendly.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




SSD prices can't go down far and fast enough.
I really wanna stop juggling stuff around on my 256 GB Samsung 830 that I bought for 175 euros six years ago, but now I'm balking at paying roughly the same for 1TB.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Wasn't there some Intel(?) drive that went into read-only mode one time and then wiped itself after a reboot?

WhyteRyce posted:

Why do people stress over the cell write lifespan when HW and FW design purposely build a solution around that and the overall drive write per day lifespan is a sufficient measurement for most cases?

Because NUMBER GO DOWN AAAAA WORLD IS ON FIREEEEE

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Atomizer posted:

I have not heard that specifically, probably because the "read-only" part is incompatible with the "wiped itself" part.

Turns out I wasn't crazy, after all. Just slightly misremembering things posted ITT a year ago (emphasis mine):

Klyith posted:

Intel are super duper extra conservative about lifespan with respect to total writes. That 40% life remaining is 40% of an amount that's well under what the drive could statistically likely do, but is intentionally given a very low bar to make any sort of wear-related errors very unlikely.

So you should feel pretty comfortable using it all the way up to 0% life remaining. At which point an Intel SSD will lock itself into read-only mode to keep you safe from data loss, then brick itself after the next power cycle.

And then the part I forgot a few posts later:

Potato Salad posted:

"Brick" means "I don't write anymore" in this case.

And the read is made slow enough that it's unbearably painful to just ignore and continue using as a read only drive. Intel wants you to recover your data and replace that sucker.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




I can't wait for them to start putting the warnings on Apple products.

"Using Apple products causes harm to yourself and others around you." Accompanied by a before and after picture of a phone headphone jack disappearing.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




So, what happens when we get to 5 bit deep cells? Those would be Quint Level Cells, which shortens to QLC too.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




priznat posted:

If this catches on at all (no guarantees) I could see a firmware key unlock type scenario where you buy the default drive and pay a license fee if you need the capability. Its easier this way than multiple silicon devices.

Can't wait for always-online SSDs that lock you out of your data if you've been offline for more than 48 hours.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




SnoochtotheNooch posted:

Theyre both intel 500gb SATA SSD. I would think that there would be some way to view the spec of the C drive to see its serial number which would tell me right away which drive was alive.

CrystalDiskInfo can show you the serial number. And I'm betting the Intel SSD utility can do so as well.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Combat Pretzel posted:

Seen it earlier in the thread, SSDs running Bitlocker. I understand the need/desire for encryption, but limiting SSD performance wholesales is an interesting choice, too. Too bad Windows 10 doesn't support automounting of virtual disks on its own (you can create and attach them in Disk Manager, without needing the Hyper-V stuff installed), because that's a nice compromise. I'm running a Bitlocker VHDX as "safe storage".

Don't a lot of SSDs come with native hardware-based encryption that'll make the performance impact of stuff like bitlocker negligible?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




BangersInMyKnickers posted:

That is the opal spec and, as you might expect from a hard drive manufacturers that have almost zero security training or discipline, is dogshit garbage that leaks key material all over the place and should not be used and actively disabled in favor of software encryption

Figures. I'd just hoped they'd got their act together after that report came out that blasted every single one of them for being terrible.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Even if you keep Samsung magician installed, it won't touch non-Samsung drives. Or even some OEM Samsung ones.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




makere posted:

I don't have extensive experience with XMP, but I have heard from many that it barely never works stable.

I think you need better sources. If your RAM doesn't work stably with the XMP profile needed to get to its advertised speeds, you return it under warranty because it is faulty.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Volguus posted:

Being signed was not the problem here (would have bought another 3 years). 16 bit is the problem.

Power on Hours being load bearing seems like more of a problem. I have a hard drive that actually rolled over its power on hours counter and just keeps on trucking (with only data I'm fine with losing at any time).
I know it's not a fair comparison for an SSD that likely needs to use power on hours for scheduling internal maintenance jobs or something, but for it to completely and totally gently caress up an SSD if some weird data happens?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




I bought a Corsair Force MP510 960GB to put in the rest of the parts I also bought today.

What's this that I'm reading about NVMe drives needing you to turn off write cache flushing to get to full speed? Is it a return of the old really bad advice from when SATA SSDs were just starting to become usable or is there actually any merit to it?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Cool, thanks. I figured as much, but asking in here seemed like a safe bet.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Binary Badger posted:

Current Phison E12 drives are shipping with ECFM 22.4, a jump from 12.3.

Phison seems to be playing their cards close to their chest because literally no updaters for generic 22.x drives seem to be out in the wild, unlike with 12.x.

Mine (Crucial Force MP510) shipped with 22.5, for what it's worth.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




If anything, they're in a race to see who can re-invent the wheel the most and in the most infuriating way. USB Implementers Forum is currently in the lead with its psychotic renaming of old standards to be as confusing as humanly possible.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




endlessmonotony posted:

You need to align the sectors to the pages and cloning software not aware of the hardware limitations doesn't necessarily do that.

Stop using Norton Ghost from 1999, then.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Klyith posted:

I don't think that's true. The MX500 for example has 512 total GB of nand, and 500 capacity. 12 GB extra space is plenty for most purposes, but it isn't 10%.

Don't forget that space reported by the computer is in gibibytes while size on the box is in gigabytes. So that 500 GB will only be ~488 GB available space. That makes ~24 GB of overprovisioned space, still just around 5%, but double what you were thinking.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Klyith posted:

No, the flash packages are also made in multiples-of-1000 gigabits.

Oh huh. Never mind me, then.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




ItBreathes posted:

NVMe is hot swappable?

Anything is if you're courageous enough.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




It also wouldn't kill MS if they made their GUI disk management tool halfway competent. Why do I even need to pull up a CLI tool like diskpart to clean a disk?

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




FRINGE posted:

Diskpart is great and very reliable. I hope they never touch it.

What I meant was they should make the GUI tool just as great and reliable. Instead of whatever the gently caress it is now where it just shrugs at anything remotely different from the norm and refuses to touch it.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Steam allocates disk space before starting the download by writing an empty file. I know because one time I'd just deleted GTA5 from my nearly full 256 GB Samsung 830 to download a different big game and had to look at the allocation progress crawl along because TRIM hadn't had a chance to do its thing yet.

So you might just hit the cache limit if you install a big enough game.

Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Klyith posted:

Allocating disk space does exactly what it says, it reserves disk space for files without writing them. The operation writes a comparatively trivial amount of data to the NTFS master file table, like "game.dat is 4 GB and takes up <clusters> on the disk". It doesn't write all zeros across 4GB or something.

That's what I always figured and expect, but it sure isn't the behavior I got in that situation. I even opened resource monitor to check and saw Steam was writing data the whole time.
Maybe the 830's controller gets weird about space it hasn't trimmed yet being allocated?

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Geemer
Nov 4, 2010




Klyith posted:

Just booting the OS isn't doing that though. You'd have to either leave the drive running to wait for it to find those on it's own, or force reads across all data. Then check the error count.

So there's finally actually a use for chkdsk /r?
I can't believe we actually found one after floppy drives went out of vogue.

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