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Palladium
May 8, 2012


AVeryLargeRadish posted:

The thing is that the random 4k performance is by far the most important metric and as you can see in the charts posted earlier a SSD will be 40-100 times faster in that type of work so yeah, even with the bottleneck a SSD will be vastly faster than any HDD.

Not to mention latency even on a SSD on slowass SATA is still some ~500x faster than a HDD.

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Palladium
May 8, 2012


GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:

In the comments for the optane articles, people are mentioning how Intel's original released specs have been totally missed. They're being shut down by comments like "Intel didn't specify gen 1"

Isn't Samsung getting in on a low QD / latency optimised SSD?

I too have a hard time wrapping my head around the people defending this consumer Optane turd. If the end result doesn't justify the pricing then whatever cherry-picking of paper spec becomes inconsequential.

Alas, now one more reason to keep money in the bank than dumping it into a PC upgrade.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


WhyteRyce posted:

Besides the shortage, apparently more and more companies are converting over to slower TLC. So maybe used MLC drives are starting to command a premium.

Those NAND manufacturers are laughing their way to the bank until China starts dumping homegrown NAND by the shiploads by 2019.

In fact China's Achilles heel in electronics supply chain is their lack of fabs that it has become a national strategic objective to acquire them by all means necessary.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Nill posted:

I just entered the SSD world via an emergency involuntary upgrade (9yo WD Velociraptor finally started clicking, immediately migrated over to an 850 evo).

All the "so now you own an SSD" guides I've found regarding which functions or services you should enable/disable to best optimize your ssd experience seem hilariously out of date.

I have the basics covered (partition 4k aligned, TRIM working, etc.) but should page files still be offloaded to spinning discs? Indexer & sys restore disabled?

All of those tweaks are nonsense if you are on Win 7 or later.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


https://www.anandtech.com/show/1216...tb-ssd-review/4

Finally a non Samsung SATA SSD that doesn't suck in a while.

Oh, and there's one more tidbit to share: https://www.usenix.org/conference/f...ation/schroeder

quote:

We see no evidence that higher-end SLC drives are more reliable than MLC drives within typical drive lifetimes...over 6 years of production use in Google’s data centers

Palladium fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Dec 20, 2017

Palladium
May 8, 2012


kloa posted:

I thought there have been plenty of faster SSDs, but they’re nowhere near Samsung’s longevity/speed price ratio yet. That’s why Samsung’s are always recommended over other brands.

Samsung was so dominant before the MX500 because the reputable brands like Crucial are only slightly cheaper but also slower than the Evo lineup, and nobody really cares about the unreputable ones like Adata and Kingston.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


If you ask me the real world differences between those two NVMe drives will be zero in like 99% of workloads.

But then again I'm speaking as a SATA3 peasant.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


baquerd posted:

Thanks, on the fence at just replacing the whole thing. Everything still works great, but it's only a matter of time.

A SATA3 SSD on a SATA2 is only present a bottleneck when it comes to transferring large enough files to a faster drive (like a SATA3/NVMe SSD), otherwise in normal usage there should be no difference because latency and IOPs are still the same.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Yup, why take the chance? All the second tier SSD vendors still have to source their NAND from the big three (Samsung, Micron, Toshiba), so the only way they can realistically cut their costs on is the controller which is a very bad idea for the consumer.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


TOOT BOOT posted:

What's actually the bottleneck on startup now? Why does it take 8 seconds instead of 2?

IMO, besides the obvious POST sequence, its prolly because software code itself becomes a bottleneck once the underlying hardware becomes faster than a certain threshold. Because from what I see even on a RAMdisk old games like Red Alert 2 would still have a few seconds of load time; in fact it's virtually the same speed if they were on a SSD.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


I'm more interested when will the floodgates of cheap anti-price fixing chinese NAND so I can fill up my PC with $100 2TB slow-but-still-fast-enough non spinners

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Looking forward to the NVME MX500 numbers, hope there isn't a big premium over an equivalently-sized SATA version.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Anime Schoolgirl posted:

if the 860 pro review is anything to go by, 80 (because you know it's always going to be on perma-"discount") to 150 dollar markup for a minor improvement over something within 2 percent of the 850 evo isn't very compelling.

and i'm not sure samsung has the inertia with solid state drives as intel does with CPUs, OEMs (which are most of the sales) love sandisk more than anyone else.

I go as far as to say if you take the 860 Pro over a much faster (raw) 960 Evo which also costs around the same GB/$, you are pretty much an idiot, much less the far cheaper (and lol still faster) MX500.

Palladium fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Jan 24, 2018

Palladium
May 8, 2012


I dunno, but from all the teardowns I seen of recent iPhones and iPads, Samsung is rarely sourced for DRAM and never for NAND.

Which make sense since Apple wants to avoid helping the DRAM/NAND top dog as much as possible.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Samsung has been having it too good in the SSD market for too long, about time somebody lit a fire up their rear end.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Killer_B posted:

Performance-wise, is there any appreciable difference between the WD Blues and the newer Crucial MX500 series?

In a similar vein, are they pretty similar reliability wise as well?

MX500 is better every way through and through.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Just when NAND prices are finallly edging downwards, comes a power outage at Samsung NAND fab: https://www.anandtech.com/show/1253...nd-flash-output

How very convenient!

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Zarin posted:

gaming
would I possibly even NOTICE the difference

No.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


redeyes posted:

Yeah 500GB is enough for anyone when they can have 1TB.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


redeyes posted:

Whether or not NVMe is faster for loading x game is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. SATA is old loving tech. NVMe is new tech designed for solid state media. Get on board goons. There are many technical reasons it is a better technology but as with everything, if you don't have bleeding edge bux, feel free to buy older stuff.

lol looks like someone bought into the NVMe hype and got burnt despite all the easily available evidence to the contrary out there

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Just tossing the dog a bone before Samsung conveniently cuts power to their NAND fabs again because.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


I jumped on that anyway since its even cheaper than a MX500 1TB locally, and I believe Micron is massively underrating the write endurance.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


dogstile posted:

Can I bring this back up?

What the gently caress is this?

I dunno but they go totally goes against what I learnt in high school for math functions

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Atomizer posted:

There was even a lightning deal on an Adata SU655 (DRAMless) 480 GB for ~$68 earlier in the morning.

Some NAND fab is just going to have a convenient disaster soon isn't it.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


I paid $400 for my 1TB M550 in 2014.

Now I got a 2TB Micron 1100 for just $250, which is 3.2x the GB/$ of that.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


redeyes posted:

Yeah, never buy ADATA SSDs. They use the poo poo NAND the major manufactures don't want. That also goes for most genericish SSD brands. Samsungs are solid. I still have all the original 830s running strong.

Yeah, how much of a foolish penny pincher one has be to buy the poo poo tier stuff is just only slightly cheaper than big named OEM branded stuff or any <250GB SSD even for an OS drive?

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Atomizer posted:

Gigabyte 512 GB SSD for $95. Toshiba TLC 64-layer 3D NAND, 512 MB DRAM cache, 200 TBW. Same price as the SanDisk SSD Plus 480 GB on Amazon right now, $5 less than the WD Blue, but otherwise $15-20 less than an MX500 or 860 Evo seem to be. Probably worth a shot.

Looks not bad at all, but once again for why not just pay $20 more for the tested and proven 4K IOPS champion MX500.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Grog posted:

Hm. Too bad those Rakuten deals are only for the US.

I got my 1 TB MX500 in the mail today and am currently running a 512 GB 840 Pro as my system drive. Would it make more sense to replace the 840 Pro with the MX500 as the OS drive, or just add the MX500 as a secondary drive? I don't think I've tried cloning drives before so I don't know how much of a hassle it is or if that messes with Windows 10's activation or anything.

Just add the MX500 as a sec drive. There will be no performance differences between the two outside of synthetic benchmark tools.

Well even Rakuten is kinda spotty for US residents, as they have been known to cancel orders for no good reason. That said I'm been trying my luck to get a $245 HP EX920 1TB NVMe from them; that's even cheaper in GB/$ than my 64GB Samsung microSD I bought a week ago.


https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/...rsupply_prices/

Oh BTW we will be entering a glorious golden age of low SSD prices

Palladium fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Aug 1, 2018

Palladium
May 8, 2012


I'll be the first guy to admit this is silly overkill, but with the low NAND GB/$ currently I made the jump to dump my remaining 3TB rust platters with new my HP EX920 NVMe 1TB and Micron 1100 2TB together with my existing M550 1TB.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


redeyes posted:

It's never overkill to get rid of spinners. Having said that, I hope that Micron 1100 doesn't poo poo itself. I am suspicious based on price.

poo poo happens but I'll trust Micron cheap poo poo more than any of the second/third tier vendors. Besides I survived the dumpster planar TLC fire called the Evo 840.

I'm also surprised that has power-loss protection like the MX500 according to Micron's product PDF.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


oohhboy posted:

Spinners are still good for backups, media and archiving. Do you really need 500MB/s to watch Robocop(1987)?

You are not wrong though. Most of SSD performance gains comes from using it as an OS drive while freeing up precious IOPs on HDDs, and for the typical user the diminishing returns kick in hard afterward.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


The Silicon Motion controllers + Micron NAND combo undercutting SSD prices at this rate pretty much means nobody smart will be buying a 500GB HDD or any Samsung consumer SSD.

Palladium
May 8, 2012



The 1TB version is a very fast NVMe drive as long as you never go beyond 140GB SLC and at the worst a SATA3 one if you do. The endurance at half the 960 Evo is also a total non issue for consumer workloads especially considering how potentially cheap the replacements in the next 3 years will be. After the usual -33% SSD firesale discounts it would be ~$140, and this price it's a complete no brainer over current $170 1TB SATA TLC SSDs.

I can see SATA QLC drives are going to be even cheaper like <$100/TB, small wonder WD is downsizing their HDD operations.

EDIT: And a big at people still beating up the write endurance boogeyman.

Palladium fucked around with this message at 10:09 on Aug 8, 2018

Palladium
May 8, 2012


It's not bad per se except the MX500 500GB has hit $80 days ago.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Lockback posted:

Can you explain this?

The 1TB version has a 140GB SLC cache, the controller writes data to the fast cache first before writing to the slow QLC NAND. If no more than 140GB gets stored on the drive there isn't any performance penalty incurred by accessing the slow QLC since all the data can be 100% mapped on the cache. However once more data gets written over that 140GB the cache becomes less and less effective and the effects of slow QLC gets increasingly felt.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


LRADIKAL posted:

Tariffs going to run any Chinese sourced ones up 15-25% any time now. Others could also increase, but balance that with flash prices coming down.

Wouldn't matter where's is the source, everyone on this gay earth is gonna pay more because *~.capitalism.~* will find any big enough convenient excuse to jack up prices.

In other news, there's now a Gloway brand 120/240GB SATA SSD at mid tier SATA performance and otherwise completely unremarkable, except for the fact it's the first retail SSD to use 100% Chinese designed and 100% Chinese fabbed controller and 32-layer 3D NAND.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Lockback posted:

The "NVME is a waste for home users" is aging rapidly.

Only if you are ignoring SSDs above 1TB. The Micron 1100 2TB sometimes go as low as $210.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


DrDork posted:

Unless you're doing almost constant write cycles (like, your job is to process UHD videos all day), you will never exhaust the TBW on even a 256GB drive, let alone a 2TB drive.

The few times reviewers have bothered to actually test TBWs, they've found them all to be hilariously conservative, too. The 250GB version of the 840 Evo lasted out till something like 800TBW, with many others getting similar results. Those were MLC/TLC setups, so QLC chips should get somewhat less endurance, but still.

The 840 Evo also has the worst practical endurance in a retail SSD since it uses the smallest planar TLC has the suckiest charge retention. The current breed of 3D NAND drives have much larger cells which will boost write endurance by leaps and bounds.

Palladium
May 8, 2012


Previa_fun posted:

The Crucial MX500 looks like a good deal, thanks!

Keep an eye out for discounts on the Adata SX8200 NVMe, the 512GB/1TB versions can be found for just $20 more than the equivalent MX500.

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Palladium
May 8, 2012


https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-EX920-M...z4AAOSw8WdbfEy4

$179 for 1TB of NVME goodness

priznat posted:

I remember when the best way to speed up the boot was hit escape while it was testing the 8MB of RAM or whatever

The funny thing with NVME on my new Z370 mobo is while the Win10 loading is pretty much instant, the BIOS takes so long to train the DDR4 at boot that the overall power on to desktop time takes longer than my old H81 + SATA3 SSD.

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