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oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



If in doubt, Samsung.

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oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



There was an issue with some serious slow down over time (It was still more responsive than a HDD) but it got fixed in a firmware update and it has been good ever since.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



The 840 is no really fast and doesn't max out SATA like the EVO which handily out outperforms it several times over. But it is a reputable SSD and anything reputable is going to outperform any HDD in any real world metric outside of price per Gig.

Magician will tell you if you have the latest firmware or not and you can upgrade from there. They provide Linux boot images, but that is mostly for non-windows machines.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



having Magician installed is fine, just turn all the performance stuff off. No big deal. It is great for checking the condition of you drive in an easy manner and the easiest way to do any firmware updates.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



You can always just adjust the over-provisioning and forget about it.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



OhFunny posted:

You're suppose to leave 10-20% of the space on a SSD free right?

or was that for HDDs?

Overkill these days. What you do need enough space for is expanding updates for Steam games and Windows services. Some games want up to 30GB to use as swap Like Payday 2 whenever a big update drops. You can fill an SSD up, but just don't do it on a system drive, but it is not done out of a wear and tear issue. The amount of punishment the good drives like Samsung can take are so high above the stated amount no normal person in a normal situation will ever encounter it.

GreenBuckanneer posted:

If I connect it on the Sata 3 port will I really get 500MB/s read/write speeds or is that an advertised theoretical maximum?

Here is my Samsung 840 EVO SSD hitting that advertised theoretical maximum on uncached write and generally what you should be seeing in synthetics. So there is some truth in it.

code:
Results	967.18	
	System Info		
		Xbench Version		1.3
		System Version		10.11.6 (15G1212)
		Physical RAM		32768 MB
		Model		MacPro3,1
		Drive Type		Samsung SSD 840 EVO 1TB
	Disk Test	967.18	
		Sequential	621.19	
			Uncached Write	896.88	550.67 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	651.31	368.51 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	389.43	113.97 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	818.98	411.61 MB/sec [256K blocks]
		Random	2183.18	
			Uncached Write	3158.46	334.36 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Write	1178.17	377.18 MB/sec [256K blocks]
			Uncached Read	5943.27	42.12 MB/sec [4K blocks]
			Uncached Read	2005.82	372.19 MB/sec [256K blocks]
Marvell or Jmicron at all cost unless you're plugging in a HDD just to store your TV shows. They say "6Gb SATA" but deliver SATA 2 performance. You are actually better connecting it to a normal SATA 2 port than one of those.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Got an 850 Evo in hk for better than even the newegg price and 1/3 less than New Zealand. Got other bunch of things that are a steal compared to nz.

Should be even snappier than the 840evo which is going into the Windows part of the machine and that old ssd into the MacBook Pro. Then I will have a spare one I can flog off for some change.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



You would have to be a real cheap skate not to take 8GB these days. An SSD is still 50 times slower and as a rule never use swap. If you have to use swap you don't have enough RAM.

I suggest you take RAM out of his machine and see what happens. I am sure he would be most interested in the results.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



redeyes posted:

The 840 EVO has serious read problems. The controller doesn't refresh data correctly and files sitting for a long time can start to read extremely slowly. They kind of fixed this with a firmware update which also burns through more nand. The 830 is likely to have higher performance. Also I haven't had any 830s die on me at all. I have had 4 84O evo and pros die on me. :/

This is bollocks. The firmware update fixed the problem.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



No reason to do that, just shove everything on one SSD if you have the space.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Wilford Cutlery posted:

Samsung migration tool, or Macrium Reflect Free. Is he getting an SSD the same size as his current OS drive?

Thanks for bringing this up. I tried Macrium but it hosed up and didn't setup boot manger properly. Maybe it was because I ordered it to expand the partion to the larger drive.

They are both Samsung drives so that should have been what I should have used.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



If you have a pair of Samsung SSDs just use their cloning software, Macurium Reflect doesn't do it for "Reasons". I still have to check it with GPart and see if it expanded into the new volume properly as the software isn't exactly forthcoming with options or feedback.

I assume everyone else has had better luck with Macurium.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



It is perfectly fine although massive overkill for a laptop. If it is cheap or equal to it's consumer counterparts sure why not assuming you trust that you will get what you are buying. Maybe you will run a server one day.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



For that not really and even then you have to be hitting it pretty hard, much harder than any normal laptop use case.

What you are buying there is a lot of extra endurance. Everything else is pretty much the same as a consumer drive.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



redeyes posted:

I'm sure there is an Apple joke in there somewhere.
Paying more so It Just Works.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



craig588 posted:

840 evos have performance degradation problems, they've had several firmware updates to mitigate it but it's something fundamentally wrong and even with the latest version they still have issues. I'd keep using it for a non critical system though.

umm yeah I don't know where is this coming from at this point but they are fine. You're throwing shade at it for no reason and it's not like people can't get 850. If someone is clearing stock go nuts.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Macrium Reflect didn't work for me for ?reasons?. It cloned but didn't boot giving me the Bootmgr error because Windows don't like moving disks.

If you have a Samsung their utility has like 3 buttons to push and off to the races you go.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



MonsterEnvy posted:

K it all worked. But now my computer feels slow. I did not unplug HDD just changed the boot order in Bios so I think I will do that instead.

You can "Unplug" the HDD logically, no need to open the case.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



MonsterEnvy posted:

How is that done.

In the

http://smallbusiness.chron.com/bios...sata-70772.html

Here you go. Even if you don't set the new startup disk it should search for the next boot disk down the list assuming there isn't another two Windows as that juts confuses windows from my experience because Bootmgr is dumb.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Boris Galerkin posted:

This laptop has one M.2 slot but it's used by the wifi card.

Caddys are $35+ from what I'm seeing and also I could probably pick up the cables at a local store today instead of waiting for shipping.

Wifi dongle maybe?

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Put your OS, applications and games on the SSD. For other media and downloads point it to a cheap spinning disk for mass storage. It takes a couple of clicks to redirect your browsers etc to a new folder.

Macrium is fine but for ??reasons?? it didn't work as it refused to boot afterwards. Samsung's cloner for their SSD was flawless.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Missing TRIM on a mom workload isn't going to be remotely noticeable unless the controller is poo poo tier. She just wouldn't use the drive enough for it to be an issue unless it is paging alot and if there was slow down she likely won't notice it as it would happen over a long period of time.

Don't worry about TRIM if you can't get it to work.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



SSD not making a difference on load time is a myth btw. If you are taking consoles as evidence they barely move the stick most of the time because they choke on the very poor CPU and lean hard on streaming. Data sets also vary a lot and files get compressed not only do they take less space decompressing them increases effective bandwidth. Depending on the game it can load several time faster if not near instantaneous compared to 30+ second wait on a HDD.

MD is MD and there is no way to change it as it is a key part of the OS as much as the windows folder when it comes to any application that goes to it. Some games might have a option deep in the config file to change it though so on per-game basis maybe.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



isndl posted:

Right-click Documents -> Properties -> Location tab. You've been able to move it since Win7 at least, not sure about XP/Vista.

I am owned good sir.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Klyith posted:

I would love to see the example that gets that much improvement.

Level loads are way down the list of things that get optimized by devs. An SSD that you can put a bunch of games on is a nice luxury, but given the choice between a big SSD with 20% faster load times, or a small SSD and a video card with 20% better FPS, I know which one I'm taking.

I haven't booted it up in a while but one of the pre-SSD games I played post SSD was Insurgency where I went from the last person waiting for about 30 seconds to join the server to the first then waiting another 10 seconds for the next. The load itself would take 5 seconds at most. While a lot of people have caught up most of the time I am still first and get the pick of what position I want.

That is something of a false idea you presented given the discussion is SSD vs HDD and the myth that games don't benefit from improved load times, not the value proposition. Like any other application it has to load data and why wouldn't games benefit? Loading browsers use to take a while even with a blank page and you still have to wait for it to become responsive, now it loads it yesterday with a bunch of tabs.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



ProjektorBoy posted:

This is no joke. I've refurbished Core2Duo machines and blown the minds of end-users with the results when all I did was stick in 8GB of RAM and an SSD. Throw in even the cheapest dedicated GPU and the system is strong enough to handle today's common computing tasks without breaking a sweat.

I can definitely attest to this. They think you're magic or something.

However there is an exception of some sort is cheap poo poo laptops with an SSD. Either the SSD was below poo poo tier or the rest of it is too much of a shambles to take advantage of it. My last boss asked me for a recommendation, ignored it to buy this nasty AMD thing for $400-500 US. It was so poo poo it couldn't even update after 8 hours where even the poo poo office ones with an HDD could do in 2 at most. What I recommended him was ~$800 meeting every requirement with upgrades on sale. Hell, the cheapest option was just to put a SSD in his old one. I giggle at the thought of him trying to use that thing.

Edge case strikes again?

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



HDD still have their place but applications is not one of them and games are fundamentally applications that mess around with data a lot.

If you're talking about console load times not having much of a difference, it is because of the very weak CPU chokes on the data and can't load it any faster. It is a side effect of how games are loaded. The data files are compressed not only to save space but increase effective throughput as more data comes out of the CPU than it goes in. Console games also make a lot of effort optimising load times because they have to or else you are going to be sitting there for a very long time, a legacy effect from CD/DVD and the bottom of the bin 5200RPM drives.

PC has always been pretty whatever when it comes to loading times. When I switched from HDD to SSD it was night and day as "Whatever" became meaningless. I have games that took tens of seconds to load to seemingly near instantly.

Just treat games like an application and store it on the SSD. Arguing edge cases is a waste.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



jfc just stop.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Level Slide posted:

Is that the elongated port that's right next to the SATA connector? I don't remember ever having to use that on the Kingston, and it still booted just fine until it didn't. I'll still see if the power supply has any cables that connect to it.

Classic PEBCAK. Don't sweat it, everybody has it at one time or another.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Spinners are still good for backups, media and archiving. Do you really need 500MB/s to watch Robocop(1987)?

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



There is no reason not to run any application or game on an SSD if you have the space. Waiting 20 seconds when it could load in 2 isn't really sane.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Well, gee, why do you have an SSD in the first place with you are happy running everything on spinning rust waiting 20 seconds on an "Non-massive" game? Jackass.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Post update on the 840Evo never had an issue since. The slow down was real thought.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Turn on encryption and forget the key.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



I thought they were coasters. Checks thread title... oh.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Just pay the extra $20. If you can't I think you have bigger problems.

I have an old laptop from 2013 and is a champ with an SSD. If the laptop was a poo poo box when it came out the SSD isn't going to change much.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



Wouldn't compressing and decompressing is going to be CPU limited unless you're spinning rust?

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



DrDork posted:

You can also get something like Paragon Disk Manager or Macrium Reflect that will happily do the migration for you, as well.

For *reason* neither worked for me. Tried several times nada. Remembered I have a Samsung, click click, done. I don't know what the problem was and I would have trouble shot it eventually(Each run takes a while) but Samsung was just that easy.

oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



DrDork posted:

I don't know if this was your specific issue, but some of the drive migration tools do not deal well with shrinking drives. I had endless issues trying to move from a 1000GB Samsung 840 Evo to a 960GB SX8200--all the data would move, but for whatever reason it would refuse to boot from the new drive, regardless of what I did. Ended up just throwing in the towel and doing a fresh install of Win10.

This is mostly what happened except win 7 and HDD->SSD. My next migration after I didn't mess around going straight to Samsung even though I was going from small to large.

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oohhboy
Jun 8, 2013

It doesn't matter who hurt you, or broke you down, what matters is who made you smile again.



The slow down was quite real but in the end the 840 Evo issue was definitely overblown. The fix took next to no effort and the damage to endurance is pretty much nothing compared to how understated the official numbers are. I can't remember the numbers but actual endurance was just crazy high.

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