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redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

dud root posted:

Do Samsung SSDs juggle data around when idle for wear leveling purposes? Curious if the cells where my large static data is stored have been written to once, or if the controller is smart enough to eventually move 50Gb.italy.holiday.#blessed.mkv to the most used cells

Using a 950 Pro

Yes we all assume they do wear leveling. I don't think anyone has access to a controller to know for realsies.

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redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

afkmacro posted:

950 pro (512)
Read 2,500 MB/s
Write 1,500 MB/s

960 pro (512)
Read 3,500 MB/s
Write 2,100 MB/s

That's a substantial increase in perf. I would upgrade my 950 pro if xpoint weren't right around the corner.

sustained isn't the only metric that matters, in fact 4k random better represents workstation workloads

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Now we know why the Intel 750s have that gigantic heatsink

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Potato Salad posted:

What are y'all using to perform maintenance / imaging on m.2 NVMe drives? You'd have to have some kind of USB 3.1 device to actually use a four-lane NVMe device at full speed, but if all you're doing is maintenance / troubleshooting, 3.0 ought to be fine...

Macrium Reflect

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Concurred posted:

How soon are we talking? They were just announced late September and I'm finalizing my build next week. I was gonna go with an Intel 750 or 600.

Those are not really similar drives other than both being NVMe. The 750 should destroy the 600 of course.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

quote:

The Intel 600p only switches into a read-only mode when the spare area is exhausted. Intel also noted users can copy the data from a read-only SSD by installing it as a secondary drive in another computer. Intel provided an official response outlining the recovery procedure, and we include a more detailed explanation in the link.

Assuming this is actually what happens, bravo Intel. You simply cannot use a SSD with no spare NAND. I'd happily buy one.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

"The Optane SSD was able to achieve 7.2x times more IOPS at low queue depth and upto 5.21 times the IOPs of conventional SSDs at high queue depths. Optane SSDs also provide 8.11x times lower latency than conventional NAND solutions.
An Optane Technology based SSD has 10x times the density of conventional SSD drives.
The marketing material also claims it is 1000x faster than the competition available on the market but it isnít clear to what exactly they are referring to.
Optane SSDs will have 1000x the endurance Ė which, if true, should mean the device has virtually unlimited life span for practical purposes."

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

ConanTheLibrarian posted:

Ars has some interesting graphs suggesting the 960 Pro's higher specs don't translate to a real world performance boost for PC users: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2016...-you-can-buy/3/ (last set of charts)

I think we are dealing with Windows storage subsystem inefficiencies at this point. Faster SSDs don't do much for workstation workloads.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

goodness posted:

Just traded weed for an Intel s3510 1.2tb ssd .

Is this good for an average user desktop?

Oh sure, its a insane good drive and will probably last as long as you use it.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

The NVMe Drives are so fast you could probably burn one out in a month doing constant writes.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

I swear it doesn't feel like I am waiting for the SSD anymore. It feels more like Windows 10 has inefficiencies that cause delays rather than waiting for a HD to load. Also the task manager says my Intel 750 tends to be around %50 or less usage regardless of what I am doing.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Yeah.. lame! WTF Intel?

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

blowfish posted:

Uhhhhhh
I wouldn't call the current Intel consumer drives good. Adequate perhaps but not good (as in "has a reason to exist when 850 EVO/X400 exist")

Well the 750 line is pretty badass. Not cost competitive though.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Malcolm XML posted:

750 line is a data center drive in consumer marketing

Its a better 960 pro without throttling and in a 2.5 form factor

I know, I own one. Its a rocket of a hard drive. I got the PCIe form factor because the 2.5" one is harder to deal with.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

quote:

Thanks for ditching the QA teams, Nadella.
This just cannot be the new normal for Windows OS.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Combat Pretzel posted:

Eh, there's still some dedicated QA over there, but it got apparently drastically reduced and some of the remaining testing responsibilities moved over to the dev teams IIRC. I'm not sure what to think about all of it. In the past, there were huge QA teams and dedicated beta tests. Latter don't necessarily imply being better than the insider preview stuff in terms of reach, but at least there were proper communication channels. Now there's just this lovely nearly useless Feedback app.

I've been sending constant feedback with that app. A bunch of my feedbacks have definitely been fixed. Probably a coincidence.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Totally agree about no return path for communication, nor a bug tracking thing of any kind. Pretty pathetic overall. I feel like I should be getting really familiar with Linux because Windows might be jumping the shark.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Nice Van My Man posted:

So I was starting up my computer, and my 850 EVO was reading SMART status BAD. I tried different cables etc. etc. and eventually just shipped it back to Samsung and they sent me a refurb. Fortunately I had backups, so nothing lost.

It only had ~8TB of writes, and hadn't been showing any strange signs before that. I'm kind of scared to plug my new SSD into the computer in case it's something I did which damaged it. Am I being paranoid? I've heard power failures can brick SSDs, is there anything else I should look out for?

When it showed BAD status did you try and get any data off the thing? I would have been really interested to know. Based on that answer you can poo poo your pants or not.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Nice Van My Man posted:

Yep, hooked it up to another computer. It connected as "FAT32" with a storage space of 0GB. Fortunately I have a backup, so nothing lost. I was more just scared that something about my computer or usage might fry SSDs, but it seems like I was just being paranoid.

Commence pants making GBS threads. Not good at all. (not really) but goddamn SSD controllers!

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Loucks posted:

I want an mSATA SSD for my Thinkpad X230. Is the 240GB Intel 525 worth the $50 over the 250GB Sarnsung 850 Evo? My primary concern is reliability.

Not worth it at all. Get the 850. Or a Sandisk x400 for a little savings.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

BIG HEADLINE posted:

For those of you who have a 960 EVO/Pro or SM951, Samsung put out a new driver today that should net you some extra performance: http://www.guru3d.com/files-details...r-download.html

Also recent firmwares, drivers, and toolbox for Intel 750: https://downloadcenter.intel.com/pr...e-3-0-20nm-MLC-

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

nielsm posted:

Windows still does not handle completely full filesystems well, you should definitely keep 5-10% free on an NTFS volume regardless of overprovisioning on the partitioning or firmware level.

BS. What is this based on.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Is it really the case that the Intel 600p NVMe drive is actually much slower than the 850 EVO SATA? Jebers.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Eletriarnation posted:

No?

They kind of trade blows on stats - PCIe gives the Intel an edge on sequential reads as long as you have one of the larger-capacity models and possibly sequential writes too, and the Samsung's controller is capable of more IOPS so it tends to pull ahead on random loads.

As far as subjective "feel" goes, I have the 512GB 600p in my laptop and the 500GB 850 EVO in my desktop and I honestly can't tell a difference between them unless I use a benchmark.

Note also that the 600p's stats initially came out showing the same durability in TB written across all models. A lot of people pointed out that this was nonsensical and Intel released new numbers that looked proportionally better for the larger models, so if what you're looking at shows an oddly low durability for the 600p make sure you're not looking at the original stats.

Gotcha. Thanks, 600p inbound.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

the 1500mb/sec burst reads are mighty nice anyhow

It's a good price for NVMe for sure. Hopefully it wont bite me in the rear end over some odd write-blocking problem.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Bob Morales posted:

I'd happily take an ADATA with a SF2200

You would take a 6 year old SSD controller? k

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Agrajag posted:

totally getting myself a 1tb nvme if they start getting cheaper. i am in love with my intel 600p.

Yeah the one I got is a goddamn rocket. I am pretty sure it is a bit faster than the 850 evo.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Dogen posted:

Does SMART data mean anything for SSDs? Magician just had an update and says "good" for drive status, which I looked at the data and it has fails on uncorrectable error and ECC error rate, wondering if I need to start worrying about replacing this stupid 850 pro.

Post the SMART datas

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Dogen posted:



I know for regular old hard drives any bad sectors (esp more than 1-2) meant new HDD time, but I haven't run into this with SSDs before.

From googling a bit, you might actually want to RMA that drive. You could also keep backups and keep running the drive. Some say it could be a cable/data issue, one time kind of thing. Others say it could be the beginning of the drive outright failing.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Ika posted:

Does the 960 EVO also have throttling issues? I just installed one in my work PC, and tried backing up a 40gb database file I had copied to it earlier, and by the time the file had finished copying the average speed had dropped to 400MB / s. This is using win7 with the samsung NVM driver but without magician.


That is normal. 40GB is enough writes to make the drive perform at its lowest speed since the cache is full.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Yeah the x400 is a great line of drives. The best cheap option.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

quote:

The DC P4800X purportedly offers up to 30 DWPD (Drive Writes Per Day) of endurance, which measures how many times you can fill the drive per day over the warranty period. 30 DWPD is unheard of for NAND-based SSDs; the most endurant modern SSDs top out at 10 DWPD. The DWPD metric can be muddy due to differing capacities, but overall, the DC P4800X can absorb up to 12.3PB of data during its service life. Intel's 450GB DC P3520 SSD, which is NAND-based, can withstand only 590TB, so apparently, 3D XPoint offers almost 21x more endurance than NAND.

Hot sex. Still, not 1000x greater endurance than NAND like the hype said way back when.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

WhyteRyce posted:

Might have been oversold but this is also the first iteration of this brand new memory type

Yeah the devil is in the details and this stuff is rad. I want it.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Those tiny USB drives just don't match up to even a mechanical HD. Probably your best hope is something like Samsungs USB 3.0 SSD is the smallest while also being fast as hell.

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-T3-P...samsung+usb+ssd

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Maneki Neko posted:

So maybe dumb question, I replaced my 5 year old Crucial M4 with a bigger SSD. I know SSD technology has continue to mature over the years, anyone have any sense if there's much life left on that M4? I know I've seen 10+ year endurance lifetimes kicked around for newer gear, any more definitive answers on the older stuff?

Basically just trying to figure out if it's worth giving to someone (and not handing them a ticking time bomb) vs just secure erasing/recycling.

Run something like Crystal Disk Info and look at the Wear Level Indicator metric. It counts down from 100 to 0 and supposedly around 10 is where the drive should start telling Windows it is bad.
http://crystalmark.info/software/Cr...fo/index-e.html

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

lordfrikk posted:

Is steady-state something that every drive will reach eventually (I guess like some kind of burn in) or does it require long enough uninterrupted usage after which it will return to "normal" (non-steady-state?)? I'm trying to understand if tests using speeds reached in steady-state are of any consequence for regular consumer workload.

Steady state occurs when a drive has burned through its buffers and has to directly write and read to the NAND. Consumer models can sustain high levels for shorter amounts of time and are tuned for bursts of i/o whereas enterprise drives are tuned to provide better performance while in steady-state.

Benchmarks tend to hit worst-case scenereos so this means more i/o than the buffers can take and then you get to see steady-state performance.

On a consumer machine you will probably never reach a steady-state.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

da anime bulldog posted:

So, im building a computer for gaming, and I'm getting back into the swing of learning what all this poo poo means as I select parts. I'm going to go with a Samsung SSD.

Heres my question - it sounds like NVMe is something I want to go for, but I'm not quite sure what the difference between Samsung Evo and Pro is, and what the major differences are for 850, 950, and 960. Whats the deal?

NVMe is a faster protocol and was created to work with NAND flash storage. It is far more efficient at using solid state memory than the SATA protocol and does really good when hit with a ton of concurrent requests. So, you definitely want NVMe if your stuff has support for it.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Ataxerxes posted:

How do I determine a good controller?

Good controller = Intel. If your mobo has extra SATA controllers like Marvell do not use those.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Bob Morales posted:

Somewhat faster than top of the line SSD, not nearly as fast as RAM, what problem are we solving here?

quote:

3D XPoint has about one thousandth the latency of NAND flash (or about ten times the latency of DRAM), and tens times the density of DRAM.


A nice improvement vs NAND to be sure.

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redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

quote:

Running Sysbench 0.5 with a 70-30 read-write split, and with the data stored on a 400GB Intel DC P3700, the rack could handle only 1395 transactions per second. With the 375GB DC P4800X, that number soars to 16480 transactions per second with similar 99th-percentile latency. That's an impressive performance boost from mostly the same hardware.
Nice. That is pretty amazing considering the DC P3700 is a goddamn fast random i/o drive.

quote:

$1,520 for 375GB.
loving ouch.

redeyes fucked around with this message at 22:04 on Mar 19, 2017

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