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Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
I haven't checked in years but did the deals forum SSD thread go away?

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Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

td4guy posted:

No deals had been posted since Black Friday, so it got archived.

Well poo poo.

Can someone give me some examples of what a 'good' deal looks like these days? The last time I bought an SSD it was like $150 for a 240GB sandforce was a good deal.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Are these 'datacenter' SSDs no good for laptops?

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sgv/sop/d/brand-new-sealed-box-samsung/6191810519.html

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
When you format an SSD, how does the SSD know it’s a format operation and zeros all the blocks? Is there a special format ATA command that should be sent during a format? Pershaps older OSes might not be able to do this correctly?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
When you enable trim in macOS using trimforce, it kinda hangs for a while. Is that hang time the OS sending the SSD all unused blocks and the SSD zeroing them? Seems to take about as long as a secure erase.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

nielsm posted:

"Full format" does, "quick format" only rewrites the basic file system so it appears empty.

Actually I’m not sure. A full format to the SSD controller is just a bunch of random writes even if all zero could be valid data. I had a brain fart when I posted. I think you have to send the secure erase ATA command for the SSD to know the blocks are free. So traditional formatting does nothing other than destroying the file table for the OS. The SSD still thinks there’s valid data.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Star War Sex Parrot posted:

It's probably issuing TRIM to all of the unused LBAs, but I've never watched the specific behavior of trimforce through an analyzer. The SSD's behavior is indeterminate since different FTLs do whatever the hell they want.

Right. I just figured since the hang time is kind of long for just issuing the list of unused blocks. Not sure if there’s another ATA command that forces the SSD to flush its zeroing queue but if it’s not gonna take long then it would make sense to do it when trim is enabled.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Is this a pricing mistake?

https://www.amazon.com/HP-Internal-Solid-2LU81AA-ABL/dp/B075CPBWMX/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1515732576&sr=8-4&keywords=s700+pro

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

ChiralCondensate posted:

And read the whole thing before you do it: don't do it from (certain?) USB-SATA adapters and brick your drive like I did!

I bricked a regular HDD by sending it a secure erase command for shits :downs:

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Anime Schoolgirl posted:

$280 sounds like a normal price unless you're seeing something different

Oh nm. I haven't shopped SSDs in a while. Wasn't expecting 1T drives for that price and the S700 pro initial reviews put the price for 1T at over $100 more than that.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
You can secure erase with Parted Magic bootable linux. Not free tho. I have the same XLR8 but not nearly as much use on it.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
My XLR8 firmware is marked on the sticker as CS211101

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Naffer posted:

My sticker says FW version 5.4.1. We might have different controllers.
EDIT: Apparently this drive came with a 5 year warranty if you registered it, but only a 3 year if you didn't. I bought it 3.5 years ago. Lets see what PNY says.
EDIT2: I just realized XLR8 is pronounced "accelerate". That makes way more sense now.

Guh do I need to register my SSDs now?....nah gently caress it. Ain’t got no time to reg the 1000s of parts I have.

GL with Don. Keep us posted.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Palladium posted:

MX500 is better every way through and through.

No quirks with the MX500 reported? I'm thinking of getting a 1T or 2T

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
So...an SSD controller actually knows how much actual data is on it if the drive is properly trimmed right? So an external could in theory have accurate usage displayed on an embedded display without using any assistance software and no dependence on the file system like previous attempts at an embedded capacity display.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
I think those older gen e-ink displays relied on an application running on a host OS to send the capacity use to some embedded controller on the external. It wouldn't be accurate if you plugged into another computer and started adding/deleting stuff.

If the SSD controller were in directly control of the display, it could use trim info to determine usage but that also assumes every device that writes and deletes from it is trim capable.

Maybe in the future.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
So will all NVME SSDs operate in AHCI mode if necessary? How much faster is AHCI mode on PCIe x4 vs 6G-SATA?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Klyith posted:

NMVe is its own thing, and a NVMe drive can only operate in NMVe mode. Setting AHCI or RAID mode on the bios should have no effect on it, that only effects the SATA drives. don't confuse NMVe with M.2

SATA: a bus standard (the wires, connector, and which protocols the devices on it will use)
AHCI: an interface protocol (the commands & data that both sides use to talk)
M.2: a physical standard (a connector & dimensions of the device) with 2 bus standards (SATA and PCIe+NVMe)
NMVe: an interface protocol used over the PCIe bus standard

Simple!


a NMVe drive can be a lot faster than AHCI at some tasks, but those tend to be outside the zone of most home user or even prosumer use. Big databases love it, regular "read a gigabyte of data" jobs don't really see much benefit. NVMe drives that use all 4 PCIe lanes won't hit the bandwidth cap that SATA has with fast SSDs, but even that isn't exactly a common thing for most people.

Thanks. I got confused a bit reading some other articles online about how some(?) Samsung NVME SSDs will also fall back to AHCI if the chipset or whatever doesn't support NVME. I'm looking into some hackery with a Z87 that usually doesn't support NVME booting and would require a M.2 PCIe card for said fuckery.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Sigh. Ebay has their 15% going on now too.

860 Pro 512 for $200
MX500 1TB for $200
1100 2TB for $300 edit: lol gently caress it I gotta pay tax for CA

...Sigh. I don't even need one but I've got spare machines that could use it for no other purpose than to be on an SSD.

Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Mar 20, 2018

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Snagged a 860 Pro 512G for $199. Don't hate me thread!

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Tangentally industry related but RED, the company that makes cameras, got exposed for using cheap off the shelf SSDs in their 'proprietary' SSD media with something like a 10x markup based on the market price of the internal SSD. Kind of blowing up on youtube, etc. RED of course is doubling down on their decision and marketing.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

coke posted:

https://www.cinema5d.com/whats-inside-a-red-mini-mag-the-controversy-jarred-lands-statement/

lol the tech bro CEO is really doubling down


and lol @ selling the 480GB msata ssd (341 on newegg) for $1450

their camera naming scheme and marketing always seemed obnoxious too

He's not a tech bro. More like a tech dad with smug Oakleys on.


This guys videos are getting weirder. Trying to simplify some basic computer concepts seems to have made the message harder to interpret but whatever. Looks like this guy is going to take Red to the grave if he has to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osWtyplOMKA

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Klyith posted:

LTT made an SSD RAID array that was so rear end-backwards that he needed professional recovery services from single failures. Being LTT seems like a low bar.


I can't tell or bother to look up if LTT deliberately does dumb poo poo just for the attention it would get . They obviously know it does and I'm sure they have deliberately done stuff but how much of it is accidental vs purely contrived? I'm leaning towards contrived since there's no way his entire staff are that dumb.

Linus: Here's a guy that knows fabrication and used to build dune buggies and poo poo
LTT: shows dude making a heatsink that looks like cat food
Linus: this is so cool it's the best we can do!
:rolleyes:

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
What kind of sales prices can I expect for a 4TB sata SSD in general and maybe around black friday?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Probably none. Biggest you'll likely see is 2TB.

BF/CM is more a closeout than anything else - 4TB drives are still 'luxury' items for professionals and top-shelf enthusiasts.

KK, what should I be looking for as far as 2TB prices?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Lol I still remember the $1/GB days weren't that long ago.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Bob Morales posted:

My XM-25 was $200 and only 80GB :(

I still have mine and I think I paid around the same. Core2 4ever.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
What 2.5” 1TB SSDs would have been around in 2015?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
I'm seeing 2T MX500s for less than 2 bills on ebay.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
What are some good sata SSD controllers that are good at operating in a trim-less environment as a legacy OS drive.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

Xenomorph posted:

We've had mixed luck with this.
...

Thanks. That's really informative but I'm sure there's a lot more to be said. Right now I'm mostly interested in running SATA native(no PATA adapter) SSDs in OS X 10.4 and 10.5.

I thought Win7 didn't have Trim?

And you can't do that fancy partitioning in OS X using CLI tools?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

orcane posted:

Pretty sure Windows 7 had SSD/TRIM support since release.

If memory serves I recall it wasn't added until later and even then it needed to be manually enabled.

e: it's also the dumbest flag/variable with a negate logic.

Is trim enabled? (This is the logical question)

Is disable trim enabled? (This is the actual variable) :psyduck:

Shaocaholica fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Oct 21, 2019

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Is there a PCIe x16 SSD that can use all 16 lanes? I'm trying to do something stupid on an old system. Doesn't need to be bootable.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

priznat posted:

There are but they’re usually quad m.2 drives behind a PCIe switch and big bucks.

Gigabyte just dropped an 8TB one that is PCIe Gen4 compatible too:


https://www.gigabyte.com/Solid-State-Drive/AORUS-Gen4-AIC-SSD-8TB#kf

:eyepop:


How does this work? Is there an IC that sits between the M.2 NVME drives and the PCIe bus or does that just expose itself as 4 independent drives each using 4 lanes?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E

priznat posted:

It also looks like if you use it with certain gigabyte motherboards the bios supports doing different RAID things with it. In this case it could look like one single drive.

So if it's just 4 independent drives on the PCIe bus then any raid functions would have to be done somewhere on the main board or I guess it could be watered down raid that requires an OS driver which does raid ops on the CPU like intel used to do :/

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
I lost a 2TB MX500 out in the field in an external enclosure with my name and phone number. Let’s see if it turns up.

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
It can't be straight forward logic that makes it stop working. There has to be some sort of unhandled exception. But still, JFC

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
Is samsung Rapid mode BS in 2020? Shouldn't that be something the OS kernel should be optimizing for?

Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
It just seems kind of inefficient to cache files to ram outside of the OS doing it.

Not sure how default windows does it but at work in linux if I access a file over the network cold it goes as usual but after that its almost instantaneous since its cached and I don't think I've ever ran into limits like file size so even big rear end files are cached as long as I have free mem. And I'm sure the OS is checking if its been updates on the network but most of the time that's not an issue.

Like in windows if you open a 2GB photoshop file the next re-open of that file should be significantly faster if you have the spare memory and without any gimmicky 3rd party IO hacks.

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Shaocaholica
Oct 29, 2002

Fig. 5E
What budget/used NVME should I get for a Z97 system?

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