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Triggered posted:My personal terrible mainstream religion ranking list would be: So is Islam the worst then, or is this list top to bottom? Since gay marriage is legal now, has the Church said anything about homosexuality?
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Sep 12, 2016 03:35
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The LDS church asks gays to be loveless and celibate or gtfo. Sham marriages are don't ask don't tell.
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Sep 12, 2016 03:40
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It's also not likely to change because the male/female marriage thing is doctrinally necessary. If you go into the deeper doctrines you find that marriage outside the temple is only a placeholder or a kind of substitute for the eternal temple marriage, which is eternal and necessary for a man to himself become a god and for the wife to become a Heavenly Mother, which is the kind of finer doctrinal point that is very difficult to get people to even mention outside the Temple, though it's been acknowledged publicly a few times. The Church's doctrines are that as spiritual children we must have heavenly parents, and that as children we must grow up to be like our parents, so baby puppies inevitably become dogs; kittens, cats; and children of God must become God. Also, it obviously takes a man and a woman to create a baby, so it must take a Heavenly Father and Heavenly Mother to produce a child of God. From a hymn, Oh My Father maybe? There's a line: quote:In the heavens are parents single? So because this is a critical aspect of the theology of Exaltation, Mormon term for the process of apotheosis, it's super unlikely the Church will ever change something like this. Because it's believed that eternal marriages must be reproductive, and that legal marriages are just facsimile of eternal marriage, they have no way to reverse on this issue without calling into question the entire basis of Exaltation which forms the deeper doctrines. There's no easy "god changed his mind" way to change course like on the African issue - changing course here would mean self destructing the most important sacrament in the religion.
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Sep 12, 2016 04:16
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Triggered posted:I wrote something about this in the GBS Utah thread: Very fascinating insight, being Mormonism as opposed to mainline Reform and evangelical Christianity seems based on entirely works, rather than Grace of God. I could see a relatively comfortable income by one husband, strained to its limits when factoring in many many kids, no working wife and an LDS pressured lifestyle.
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Sep 12, 2016 04:55
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Cowslips Warren posted:So is Islam the worst then, or is this list top to bottom? Islam is the worst, reddit gives ex people a natural place to group up so the exmormon, exjw and exmuslim talk to each other. I have heard some bad stories from people trying to leave Mormonism and JW but the stuff coming from Muslim guys makes everyone else go  The church has doubled down on homosexuals since gay marriage has been legalised in the states. Since last November children who are living with a gay parent in a same sex marriage cannot be baptised in the church. They have to wait till they are 18, denounce their parents marriage and they need approval from the top 3 leaders in the whole church. Note the church did not give a poo poo when same sex marriage had been legalised in other countries, the church only cares about what happens in America.
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Sep 12, 2016 05:50
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Pellisworth posted:Yeah I'm mostly curious about comparisons to broader Christianity. I could attend an LDS service I suppose, the most "different" service I've been to is an Eastern Orthodox Divine Liturgy and I'd love to check out an Armenian one sometime. They're hardcore, like almost three hours long. Orthodox Christian checking in. https://orthodoxwiki.org/Mormonism This article is super helpful, if a bit long. TL:DR "Mormons have a very difficult time understanding why Orthodox and other Christians deny that they are Christian. The simplest answer to this question is that the Mormon god is simply not God--at least not the God worshipped by Orthodox Christians (and other Trinitarians). This does not mean that the Mormons are necessarily immoral or wicked people, simply that they worship a god completely dissimilar from the Christian Trinity. "
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Sep 12, 2016 23:30
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Are Mormons into Catholic-bashing? It seems like they'd have an inferiority complex about Christian sects that actually date back to antiquity
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Sep 13, 2016 02:23
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Not directly but they have firm policies against Saints, crosses and ornate decorations in chapels, paid clergy, unmarried leaders, wine, and most of the stuff that gives Catholicism its flavor.
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Sep 13, 2016 03:16
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Triggered posted:Islam is the worst, reddit gives ex people a natural place to group up so the exmormon, exjw and exmuslim talk to each other. I have heard some bad stories from people trying to leave Mormonism and JW but the stuff coming from Muslim guys makes everyone else go To be fair, of my friends who are Muslim, and of the vast majority of Muslims I've dealt with... most people don't actually leave the faith in terms of formally renouncing it, or converting to another religion, even if they stop being observant -- and many will just do whatever they want anyway (drinking alcohol, sex outside of a heterosexual marriage, etc.) according to their own conscience while still identifying as Muslim. So, my guess is that most people who actually identify as "ex-Muslim" are dealing with leaving the more extreme and toxic communities within the religion. While I have no doubt their experiences are absolutely horrific in many/most cases, I don't know it's representative of most Muslims who simply decide to quit following the rules, or were never particularly observant to begin with, especially those not living in countries governed by Islamic law. I don't mean to defend them or anything -- I have been called an anti-Muslim bigot on a lot of occasions for some of my opinions on Islam -- I just call them like I see them. Certainly, in the worst cases, leaving Islam is pretty much the most dangerous form of leaving a religion you can imagine. Is there an option for a Mormon to basically become inactive/non-observant without "leaving" the religion?
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Sep 13, 2016 04:42
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PT6A posted:To be fair, of my friends who are Muslim, and of the vast majority of Muslims I've dealt with... most people don't actually leave the faith in terms of formally renouncing it, or converting to another religion, even if they stop being observant -- and many will just do whatever they want anyway (drinking alcohol, sex outside of a heterosexual marriage, etc.) according to their own conscience while still identifying as Muslim. So, my guess is that most people who actually identify as "ex-Muslim" are dealing with leaving the more extreme and toxic communities within the religion. While I have no doubt their experiences are absolutely horrific in many/most cases, I don't know it's representative of most Muslims who simply decide to quit following the rules, or were never particularly observant to begin with, especially those not living in countries governed by Islamic law. You technically are in an inactive/non-observant state unless you are 1. Excommunicated 2. Stop going and make it a point to have your name removed from the records of the church Basically most people that stop being Mormon are the inactive/non-observant type. I have quite a few individuals in my wife's family that go to other churches but never had their names removed from the LDS church's records. We always go to Rock N roll church with one Bro-in-Law when we visit in TX. One thing when I served my Mormon mission in Detroit, we were explicitly instructed we couldn't teach the Muslims in Dearborn. It wasn't because it would of been hard to convert, LDS leaders basically said "if one of these individuals decides to convert and their family finds out they could be killed". Church didn't want to be the cause of a death like that. Only way we could teach them was if they proved their extended family was OK with them learning and we had approval from higher ups. I used to take my morning run to a mosque and talk with the local muslims coming out of prayer in the morning. Loved the friendly theological discussions because they knew we weren't going to join their religion and we wouldn't try to push ours. Now the same two ladies from the Jehovah's witnesses that knew where we lived and came by EVERY Saturday at 10am wanting to Bible bash, we had to practice deflecting religion and being nice with them. A thing in Islam most people don't understand is the Koran teaches them to learn about other religions. We gave a lot of free Bibles or Books of Mormon to Muslims. Never offered to teach, but always offered to take out their garbage or clean up their yards. I'm still a mostly-active Mormon (I do love sleeping in on Sundays though). I will try to chime in later in the thread for some viewpoints of someone who still follows the faith. I also was roommates with a bunch of Muslims at BYU (I purposely avoided LDS roommates because they annoyed me). Was great "fun" to see the blatant discrimination there. I'd go to bat for them at the honor code office. Pretty sure my name was on a list of "assholes that interfere on our unjust system of Honor". Literally the BYU honor code office could have someone anonymously call in that :Person X was smoking or drinking" they would have a witch hunt over those tips. Never give students power like that, lots of items like that piled up which led to me leaving BYU. Cheap school, good education but the naive Mormon kids really were tough to deal with. On a sidenote, I took a general ed science class from the BYU Professor who was big into 9/11 was an inside job. I'd sit in the back row and sleep although he was a really really nice guy. That class was still boring as hell. Question for any active/ex-mormons reading the thread: How many of y'all saw the whole Utah Mormon/ Non Utah Mormon divide in attitude/behavior? I live in Utah now but I grew up in the Northwest. Its shocking how back biting and "click-ish" native Utah Mormons can be in their "holier than thou" attitudes. If my wife and I both didn't have really good jobs, we'd have left the state already
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Sep 13, 2016 06:48
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Langolas posted:One thing when I served my Mormon mission in Detroit, we were explicitly instructed we couldn't teach the Muslims in Dearborn. It wasn't because it would of been hard to convert, LDS leaders basically said "if one of these individuals decides to convert and their family finds out they could be killed". Church didn't want to be the cause of a death like that. Only way we could teach them was if they proved their extended family was OK with them learning and we had approval from higher ups. I used to take my morning run to a mosque and talk with the local muslims coming out of prayer in the morning. Loved the friendly theological discussions because they knew we weren't going to join their religion and we wouldn't try to push ours. I guess it's not surprising that the mormon hierarchy has some crazy loving ideas about muslims, but come on. There are countries where getting murdered for leaving islam is a serious risk. The USA is not one of them.
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Sep 13, 2016 07:10
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Slaughterhouse-Ive posted:Are Mormons into Catholic-bashing? It seems like they'd have an inferiority complex about Christian sects that actually date back to antiquity Yes, the Catholic church was labelled as the great and abominable church in the first edition of the book Mormon Doctrine written by a guy who became a mormon apostle. He was forced to retract that in later editions but its still  among mormons,PT6A posted:To be fair, of my friends who are Muslim, and of the vast majority of Muslims I've dealt with... most people don't actually leave the faith in terms of formally renouncing it, or converting to another religion, even if they stop being observant -- and many will just do whatever they want anyway (drinking alcohol, sex outside of a heterosexual marriage, etc.) according to their own conscience while still identifying as Muslim. So, my guess is that most people who actually identify as "ex-Muslim" are dealing with leaving the more extreme and toxic communities within the religion. While I have no doubt their experiences are absolutely horrific in many/most cases, I don't know it's representative of most Muslims who simply decide to quit following the rules, or were never particularly observant to begin with, especially those not living in countries governed by Islamic law. Hmmm even my moderate beer drinking and smoking muslim workmates still believed in Sharia. You will see mormons and JWs say they got shunned when they left the church, I have seen too many exmuslim people saying they are having to live the religion because they are scared of being killed. Out of all the lovely religions, Islam comes out on top (well apart from literal death cults but Islam has its fair share of them as well). To leave mormonism you need to formally resign. On the exmormon subreddit there is a lawyer who will submit your resignation for free because the church is infamous for its stalling tactics but will poo poo its pants as soon as anything actually legal heads its way. I still have my name on the books, I will resign as soon as my parents die. Langolas posted:You technically are in an inactive/non-observant state unless you are How do you still reconcile your faith with the history behind it all, are you going just for the culture or do you actively believe. Utah is generally mocked outside the state, especially when they turn up to a ward and think they are Gods gift because they have lived in Zion. On my mission we called them Utards because they did not understand living outside the bubble.
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Sep 13, 2016 08:36
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How do Mormons you know feel about Mitt Romney?
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Sep 13, 2016 11:10
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Vegetable posted:How do Mormons you know feel about Mitt Romney? Hes rich and white, mormons worship him.
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Sep 13, 2016 12:39
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Triggered posted:. Religion is a very personal choice to me that my Dad encouraged I explore and figure out what I want to do for myself. I was inactive for a number of years while exploring other religions. The Universe is chaotic in some senses, but its too well organized in other ways for me to say there isn't some sort of "God" or Higher source of intelligence out there influencing things. I do see why there are atheists out there and agnostic folk though as they have some very valid points. I came back to the LDS faith because it felt what was right for me. I don't really do anything social in the church so the social aspect isn't a big deal for me. I have plenty of family that left the church for their own reasons. My family is very open about religion though. Same with my wife's family, half of her siblings aren't religious or go to other churches. I do take things with a grain of salt and I've gotten in trouble for pushback towards local leaders deciding to make their own rules or preaching stories that are dubious at best. Do I believe the doctrine? Most of it, I still struggle with some items especially those related to historic events. LDS church spins it one way, Anti-Mormons spin it another. Truth lies in the middle, I was a history major so I have to go and find information and verify sources instead of blindly believing a story. There is a lot of misinformation out there from both sides in regards to items like Joseph Smith's plural marriages or his stories of the first vision or even the seer stones. As my atheist buddy jokingly says, if you're going to be religious why wouldn't you want to be LDS? Exaltation for Mormons is eventually becoming a God yourself! Glad I wasn't the only one that referred to Utah Mormons as Utards. They still are Utards. Living in the Utah bubble makes me want to make a few people disappear every once in a while. Seriously I can't believe the naivety I see from some of the local born and raised LDS Utahns. For a Mormon though, I'm pretty out of the norm when it comes to items I firmly stand behind. I was very Anti-Prop 8 while my sister was campaigning to get it passed. I have a firm belief that everyone has their own right to make their choices. Its not my place to tell someone what they have to do and shun them for not being the same as me. Everyone on this earth is different, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. We all can learn and grow from each other and influence one another to do good in this world. If we force our beliefs on others we'll end up in a state like some of these Islamic "caliphates" springing up in Iraq/Syria. Lots of needless hate Mitt Romney is a oval office. Not a fan of him. But I also am a moderate person and hate most Mormon politicians. Thanks dudes for taking more money from big business to screw us over. What is funny is looking at Salt Lake City's political climate. Mormon leaders pulling strings one way, Openly gay Mayor who she just married her partner giving them the political finger. Its entertaining.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:03
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Langolas posted:Religion is a very personal choice to me that my Dad encouraged I explore and figure out what I want to do for myself. I was inactive for a number of years while exploring other religions. The Universe is chaotic in some senses, but its too well organized in other ways for me to say there isn't some sort of "God" or Higher source of intelligence out there influencing things. I do see why there are atheists out there and agnostic folk though as they have some very valid points. Thats all well and good, but there are some obvious smoking guns that are impossible ignore for active members. The Book Of Abraham for one, as someone who looks into history how can you not come to the conclusion it was entirely made up? Also when you read some of the things Joseph did, how can you not come to the conclusion he was a sexual predator? We can go down the south park road where both sides have a point but this is being punched in the face kinda stuff, you cant really ignore it. I have no problems with people wanting to live their own lives and live their beliefs. I do have a problem with people of faith trying to push their own misguided beliefs on others. As we can see from Utah, mormons would heavily influence everyone else through the government if it had half the chance.
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Sep 13, 2016 18:39
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Do Mormons understand that being fake nice comes off as really insincere to people? How common are untreated mental illness?
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Sep 13, 2016 19:47
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Panfilo posted:Do Mormons understand that being fake nice comes off as really insincere to people? Parts of Utah have some of the highest RX rate for anti-depressants in the country if that gives you an idea.
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Sep 13, 2016 20:11
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Triggered posted:I am intentionally being vague about where I live, where I served my mission and when. These motherfuckers are very real https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strengthening_Church_Members_Committee I may sound I don't understand. Are you closeted about being out of the church? If so, what are you afraid of (seriously)? Will your family (or some of your family) shun you if they find out you've left the church? And I'd just like to add to your own misgivings about lack of archaeological evidence. The LDS is one of very few religions whose tenants (Jews being Indians, great battles in North America, etc.) can be disproved via genetic and linguistic evidence. E.g. no native American language is, in any way, related to Hebrew (or any other Semitic language), and there is demonstrable genetic proof that native Americans are in no way related to the people of the middle east. Are Mormons, in general, taught to eschew this type of science? One more thing, what happens if you don't tithe? Do they kick you out of the church? What happens if you're poor? Do they still expect you to tithe? McPhock posted:Orthodox Christian checking in. Atheist who knows way to much theology chiming in. That's an interesting thing about Mormons. Their god is literally one of many possible gods, and their version of Jesus--since their god actually had sex with Mary to make Jesus--is really a demigod. In fact, some versions of the Mormon afterlife postulate the raising of good Mormon men to godhood. So in many ways, the faith is prima facie polytheistic. They also, magically, abide by the doctrine of apostolic authority, but claim this vanished when the last apostles died and wasn't renewed until Joseph Smith. This is, of course, magical because the standard gospels of the new testament, which the Mormons still use, were written 50 to 100 years after the death of the last apostle. By all rights their theological foundation should dictate that these gospels were apostate, and thus, garbage. The only other Christian church to use the doctrine of apostolic authority is the Roman Catholic Church; however, they at least thought this through, and claim apostolic authority was passed on from Peter to the Catholic Church, thereby preserving the little things--like the new testament and the absolute authority of the church. (PS discussing the above with Mormon missionaries has twice resulted in me being told, "we will check with the bishop and come back" for me. On neither occasion did the missionaries come back.) ZombieLenin fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 20:22
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but I don't want anything to be forwarded to my family (I personally know someone this happened too).
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ZombieLenin posted:One more thing, what happens if you don't tithe? Do they kick you out of the church? What happens if you're poor? Do they still expect you to tithe? I to am an exmormon btw. Edit: I should clarify the active Mormons would consider me an inactive Mormon. At this point in my life I concider myself a former Mormon. side_burned fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 20:38
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ZombieLenin posted:The only other Christian church to use the doctrine of apostolic authority is the Roman Catholic Church; however, they at least thought this through, and claim apostolic authority was passed on from Peter to the Catholic Church, thereby preserving the little things--like the new testament and the absolute authority of the church. That's not true, most Christian groups historically have held the doctrine of apostolic succession/authority, they just disagree on who holds highest authority (Catholics would say the Pope). It's only some Protestant groups that stop caring about maintaining an unbroken line of consecrations back to the apostles. Edit: like, there's a Coptic Pope in Egypt https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Tawadros_II_of_Alexandria and Eastern Orthodox recognize the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople as first among equals https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bartholomew_I_of_Constantinople Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 21:15 on Sep 13, 2016 |
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Sep 13, 2016 21:08
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ZombieLenin posted:I don't understand. Are you closeted about being out of the church? If so, what are you afraid of (seriously)? Will your family (or some of your family) shun you if they find out you've left the church? I no longer go to church, I would just rather not have any of my comments online getting back to my family as it would land me in poo poo. If you are poor you are still expected to pay tithing, tithing first, food second. The church will help members out through the welfare program, its still destructive though. To be fair it was mainly brother Brigham who went with the sex with Mary thing. It isnt taught at all in the church. Bishops are just guys from the local congregation and I guarantee they dont know poo poo.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:14
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ZombieLenin posted:
My experience matches yours in that the missionaries did not come back. If by the "only other Christian church to use doctrine apostolic authority" you mean LDS, then I disagree. The Orthodox Church maintains the full essence of the faith from the establishment of the Church. ~~~~~~~~~ Like many Restorationist heresies, Mormons believe that the Church entered an age of opprobrium several years after its founding. In doing so, say they, it lost all right to perform sacraments, consecrate priests, or otherwise act in God's name. And from that moment until 1830, say the Mormons, there was no true Church anywhere on the earth. While Mormons offer no specific date for this alleged catastrophe, they tend to believe that it had occurred by the era of St. Constantine the Great and the First Ecumenical Council in A.D. 325. The Orthodox Church, which traces her unbroken succession to the Apostles themselves and alone teaches the fullness of their doctrine, is ergo in apostasy (with all other non-LDS churches) according to the Mormons. Mormons point to New Testament scriptures that they assert as speaking of a complete apostasy of the entire Church, as proof of their claims. While Orthodox Christians would agree that these passages did indeed speak of apostates to come--such as Arius, Nestorius and Paul of Samosata, for instance--they emphatically reject the Mormon interpretation (advanced to varying degrees by nearly all Protestants) that the entire Apostolic Church would fall into heresy. In St. Matthew 16:18, our Lord clearly states that the "gates of hell shall not prevail" against the Church He had founded--a Church which the Mormons agree existed, but which they claim to have been subsequently "lost", in violation of our Lord's words. Mormons believe ardently in the necessity of Apostolic Succession, which they refer to as "Priesthood succession" or "Priesthood lineage." However, since they recognize no valid church between the alleged "Great Apostasy" and the establishment of their own in 1830, they trace their succession to one of four "exalted beings," who purportedly visited Joseph Smith on two separate occasions in the 1820's, just prior to their church's founding. ~~~~~~~~~ This topic is super interesting to me 
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Sep 13, 2016 21:16
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OP I hope you didn't already post this and I just missed it - you left the church, what do you consider yourself now, religiously? Christian? Atheist? Something else? You also mentioned you wish your kids could get the public speaking experience and confidence that comes from proselytizing, and there's gotta be a camp or something out there that would be excellent for that. I guess that comment struck me so powerfully because I have a toddler son - I grew up in a Methodist household and left the church very early on (like 13-14 years old) and would absolutely not send him to any church-run event. I'm not militantly atheist (or at all), I just think it's best to keep him out of the hands of people who might lie or frighten him in the name of gaining a new member. Having said all that, he goes to a Jewish daycare, so clearly my priorities are weird... shabbat every friday? Totally fine! Vacation Bible Schooll? OH HELL NAW
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Sep 13, 2016 21:29
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Tourette Meltdown posted:OP I hope you didn't already post this and I just missed it - you left the church, what do you consider yourself now, religiously? Christian? Atheist? Something else? I consider myself agnostic, I am 99.999999% sure there isnt a god but who knows it might just all be a cruel joke. Its quite rare to find exmos who turn to another faith, it happens but everyone I personally know who has left is atheist/agnostic. One thing I am finely attuned to now is smelling the undeniable bullshit that comes from the different faiths. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. With my kids I know they would be fine in the local congregation because I know everyone in there. They will get the chance to dig around if they want in the future but its a source of pride that they dont know how to pray.
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Sep 13, 2016 21:39
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What did you guys think of Big Love?
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Sep 14, 2016 04:07
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Tourette Meltdown posted:he goes to a Jewish daycare, so clearly my priorities are weird... shabbat every friday? Totally fine! Vacation Bible Schooll? OH HELL NAW Well, to be fair, Jews in general don't encourage people to join. If you want to convert, and you're serious about it, they'll accept you, but they won't push it on you. As for the nutjobs ruining the moderates' image, that's common to all the Abrahamic religions at least -- Islam has ISIS, Mormons have their crazy(-er) offshoots, Baptists have the local church/unaccredited university in my hometown that that got kicked out of the SBC for being too bigoted. I'm sure Catholics and Jews have similar "they're using our name but they're extremists we don't talk to" groups, but you don't hear much about those over the conspiracy theories about the main churches.
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Sep 14, 2016 14:03
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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GORDON posted:What did you guys think of Big Love? I think the church had a "WE DONT DO POLYGAMY ANYMORE!!!!!!!!" statement but that was about it. Wasnt an amazing popular show so no one really cared.
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Sep 14, 2016 15:37
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Delivery McGee posted:I'm sure Catholics and Jews have similar "they're using our name but they're extremists we don't talk to" groups, but you don't hear much about those over the conspiracy theories about the main churches. There is a group of Catholics who basically believe there hasn't been a valid pope since Pius XII died in the 50s. Some groups have gone as far as to elect their own pope. I give you Pope Michael: 
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Sep 14, 2016 17:47
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stubblyhead posted:Pope Michael I had to look this up to believe it and stumbled on this little gem: "Bawden claims to have been elected to the papacy in 1990, in a papal conclave attended by five other people, including his parents." 
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Sep 15, 2016 06:44
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LDS splinter groups are a dime a dozen. My favorite are these idiots: http://www.latterdaymormon.co.uk English fella has decided to go down the Joseph Smith route. He has translated an ancient set of scripture recording the prophets words on the British Isles. I dont know if an angel with a flaming sword has commanded him to start having sex with 14 year olds yet but it cant be far away. As you can see from the pictures, the membership appear to be brain damaged.
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Sep 15, 2016 11:09
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Crazier but also chiller Mormons. Why the heck not!
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Sep 15, 2016 14:27
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So they're latter day latter day saints?
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Sep 15, 2016 15:39
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Have you guys read Stolen Innocence by Elisa Wall? Is that what an average breaking up with the church process looks like? I'm aware that she is from the FLDS, not the mainstream LDS church, but I don't imagine the process being very different. Space Kablooey fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Sep 15, 2016 |
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Sep 15, 2016 15:47
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feedmegin posted:So they're latter day latter day saints? Even latterer.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:57
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One of my most favorite splinter groups was the Strangites - after Joseph Smith died, there was some debate over who should really lead the church. One group said it should go to Joseph's son (they became the RLDS church), another group said it should be Brigham Young (and when his face supposedly took on the countenance of Joseph Smith during a speech, that sealed the deal for many people). There was another guy who claimed to be the successor, however. His name was Walter Strang and he claimed to have found a set of plates that proved he was the next living prophet and seer. He took a good number of people with him when he left, including Joseph Smith's only surviving brother, Joseph Smith's mother, the Mayor of Nauvoo and some other big names. He was murdered by some angry Strangites a few years later, after establishing a community on Beaver Island in Michigan. His interpretation/implementation of Mormon doctrine was interesting because he re-instated animal sacrifice, allowed women to receive the Priesthood, etc. I think there are still a few believers from that group kicking around these days.
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Sep 15, 2016 15:57
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HardDisk posted:Have you guys read Stolen Innocence by Elisa Wall? Is that what an average breaking up with the church process looks like? Not that I am one to defend the mainstream LDS church, but the FLDS are on another planet in comparison. The worst you will get out of mormonism is being shunned by your family, some people in the FLDS end up dead. LDS are at least encouraged to be part of the wider communities, FLDS live in their own secluded compounds.
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Sep 15, 2016 16:00
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HardDisk posted:Have you guys read Stolen Innocence by Elisa Wall? Is that what an average breaking up with the church process looks like? "Breaking up" consists of just not showing up anymore. There's some paperwork you can fill out so you aren't considered a member anymore, but most people don't bother. Hey, OP, you said you consider yourself an atheist. From a religious studies perspective, it's very common for Americans to switch religious affiliations, but less so for members of the more conservative churches to go straight to atheism. Did you stop at some other churches on the way or was your decision to be atheistic part of a larger radical shift in worldview?
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Sep 15, 2016 16:10
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Brennanite posted:"Breaking up" consists of just not showing up anymore. There's some paperwork you can fill out so you aren't considered a member anymore, but most people don't bother. Interested in the OPs perspective too. When I left the LDS faith, I became an atheist as well. I used to be on some religious boards as a Mormon and I would get into deep debates with other religious people about why they were wrong and Mormonism was right. This kind of stuff was encouraged by my family, because my step-dad's family is crazy deep doctrine Mormons who like to discuss things like the Discourses of Brigham Young where he basically says that Adam and Eve are aliens, Adam was God, etc. That was also the beginning of my path to leaving the LDS faith and religion in general behind. I started to read more things that the church labels "anti" (anti-Mormon literature - not always anti-Mormon, but anything that doesn't agree with the LDS perspective was considered anti by my giant, extended family). I read stories about Zelph - a Native American skeleton found in a burial mound by a group that Joseph Smith was traveling with, and that he created a big backstory for - learned that when he died, it wasn't just a mob breaking into his jail cell, but that there had been guns smuggled in and a shootout, that he had destroyed printing presses printing things he didn't agree with, married young girls. So then I tried to justify my faith in general and talked to my Stake President (basically someone in charge of all of the local congregations for a group of counties or large city, etc) who answered my doubts by saying "Well, what's the worst thing that happens if the church isn't true? You're paying tithing - basically a membership fee - to be part of an organization that teaches you how to be a good member of society, how to be a good parent and how to be moral. Isn't that worth something"? I started reading Dawkins, Hitchens, Sagan and the like and pretty quickly realized that my doubts weren't JUST with the flavor of religion I was in, but with religion in general. I got into atheist activism for a while but that's a mess too. Now I volunteer for a humanist kids camp (Camp Quest) and enjoy spending my Sunday mornings drinking coffee and spending time with my kids.
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Sep 15, 2016 16:30
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Brennanite posted:"Breaking up" consists of just not showing up anymore. There's some paperwork you can fill out so you aren't considered a member anymore, but most people don't bother. Like I said earlier I dont know anyone personally who has left the church go to another religion. They are all atheists or agnostics. After I reasoned the church was a fraud I went straight down the "there is no God" route. No need to hop to other faiths on the way because I could easily see the gaps in logic that are needed to believe. The church does a good job of reinforcing its position as the "one true church". When that tumbled, religion in its entirety tumbled with it. I used to be scared of death but now I dont really. Obviously I dont want to die but I have come to accept its inevitably which is supposed to be reversed I think. In church you are supposed to do every little thing right or you are separated from your family for eternity!!!! That isnt there anymore. I will do a write up tomorrow on the priesthood (in Mormon terms) because there were a couple of guys above talking about apostolic succession.
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Sep 15, 2016 19:11
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