|
http://www.grandforksherald.com/news/north-dakota/4110814-north-dakota-governor-asks-national-guard-assistance-pipeline-protestquote:MANDAN, N.D. -- Gov. Jack Dalrymple activated the North Dakota National Guard in a limited role Thursday to provide support for civilian authorities dealing with the Dakota Access Pipeline protests south of Mandan as a key court ruling loomed Friday. Another article, this one by Bill McKibben (apparently some members of 350.org are helping out) http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily...TAwMDU2ODU5MwS2 A choice excerpt: quote:Their foe, most directly, is the federal government, in particular the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which has approved a path for the pipeline across the Missouri under a “fast track” option called Permit 12. That’s one reason the Dakota Access Pipeline, as it’s known, hasn’t received the attention that, say, the Keystone XL Pipeline did, even though the pipe is about the same length. Originally, the pipeline was supposed to cross the Missouri near Bismarck, but authorities worried that an oil spill there would have wrecked the state capital’s drinking water. So they moved the crossing to half a mile from the reservation, across land that was taken from the tribe in 1958, without their consent. The tribe says the government hasn’t done the required consultation with them—if it had, it would have learned that building the pipeline there would require digging up sacred spots and old burial grounds.
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 06:46
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 14:14 |
|
|
moller posted:The story doesn't fit into the election narrative, or an of the larger left vs. right narratives - petrochemical companies are proudly bipartisan. I think it's both in this case, as isn't part of the argument eminent domain abuse to get the land in the first place?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 08:57
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:I think it's both in this case, as isn't part of the argument eminent domain abuse to get the land in the first place? This has happened forever, state and federal governments have taken every opportunity to renege on treaty agreements and confiscate land promised to the reservations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sioux_Reservation I actually don't know how tribal sovereignty plays into eminent domain but as long as you're stealing land from Natives who gives a gently caress??
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 09:17
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:This has happened forever, state and federal governments have taken every opportunity to renege on treaty agreements and confiscate land promised to the reservations. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Sioux_Reservation Or, after losing a battle to a confederacy of local Tribes to steal their land and build an expansion of the Loop 202 right through Moahdak Do'ag (South Mountain) you eminent domain a bunch of homes in Ahwatukee, still have to plow straight through or very near to another Reservation and the mountain and then clean through a low-income area that is mostly Hispanic, to slam into the I-10 at 59th Ave, so that the white rear end people who live in the suburbs of Litchfield Park, Surprise and Goodyear don't have to have their little lives inconvenienced sitting in traffic downtown on the way to their jobs at the Intel plant in Chandler because there are no jobs in the West Valley. gently caress local Arizona politicians. Or, you flood Tohono O'odham land down on the Gila River when a dam you made poorly bursts, so you trade some land up in Glendale, since back then (1980s) it's just cotton fields and gently caress all. In the early 2010s the Tohono O'odham want to build a casino, but you built a highschool within five miles and the Glorious Stadium Complex (which is empty 90% of the time) and fear that the casino will bring evil, so you, the city of Glendale, try all sorts of underhanded fuckery to steal the land. They lost that one though, and the casino is in and finished. Then there is the fuckery out by Oak Flat, where a bipartisan consortium including John McCain, Jeff Flake and state idiots Paul Gosar (R) and Ann Kirkpatrick (D, that's where the bipartisan comes in) pushes a very corrupt "land-swap" shoved into a defense spending bill to give a poo poo ton of land sacred to Apache, with rare riparian areas and great recreational value to that old shithead company, Rio Tinto, so they can mine it until the ground sinks, with, even better still, very little of usual cultural and environmental assessments. Even better still, the town of Superior, a mining town, opposes the whole thing. And don't get me started on the loving bullshit the Navajo Nation has had and still has to deal with in relation to uranium and coal mining. Basically, Arizona is a state with a large amount of Native people and a massive amount of Native land, so they get hosed A LOT. KiteAuraan fucked around with this message at 10:11 on Sep 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 10:03
|
|
|
Wow. I had only heard about the Havasupai, who live in and around the Grand Canyon, and thus constituted quite an inconvenience to people wanting a pristine and human-free view of the pretty rocks. Although from what I've read, the really bad days seem to be behind them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 10:38
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:Wow. I had only heard about the Havasupai, who live in and around the Grand Canyon, and thus constituted quite an inconvenience to people wanting a pristine and human-free view of the pretty rocks. Although from what I've read, the really bad days seem to be behind them. Pristine and human-free view of the pretty rocks has not been true of the Grand Canyon for at least 12,000 years. There's Clovis-era stuff there and everything in between. Hell, you've got entire Pueblo settlements on the bottom of the canyon until about 1300.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 10:50
|
|
|
I was going to go sarcastic in this post, but I got depressed. Obviously, the narrative of "pristine wilderness beauty" is both contrary to history and part of our legacy of genocide. Read the book for such proud moments as the national Sierra Club fighting tooth and nail to keep the Havasupai from getting a single scrap of the land which the Park Service has publicly earmarked for a resort complex.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 11:34
|
|
|
KiteAuraan posted:Or, after losing a battle to a confederacy of local Tribes to steal their land and build an expansion of the Loop 202 right through Moahdak Do'ag (South Mountain) you eminent domain a bunch of homes in Ahwatukee, still have to plow straight through or very near to another Reservation and the mountain and then clean through a low-income area that is mostly Hispanic, to slam into the I-10 at 59th Ave, so that the white rear end people who live in the suburbs of Litchfield Park, Surprise and Goodyear don't have to have their little lives inconvenienced sitting in traffic downtown on the way to their jobs at the Intel plant in Chandler because there are no jobs in the West Valley. gently caress local Arizona politicians. Don't forget that McCain couldn't get the Rio Tinto deal on Apache Leap passed in AZ, so the enormous poo poo bag turned it into a rider on last year's must-pass Defense Appropriations bill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 12:29
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Don't forget that McCain couldn't get the Rio Tinto deal on Apache Leap passed in AZ, so the enormous poo poo bag turned it into a rider on last year's must-pass Defense Appropriations bill. Yet, if we vote to replace him with his Democratic opponent this year, we get Senator Ann Kirkpatrick, another architect of the deal.  Thank God Raul Grijalva exists and tries to fight some of this poo poo. He's one of the few shining lights in this state's idiotic political zoo.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 12:51
|
|
|
Even as someone that's pretty big on animal rights I REALLY hate the use of dogs both by police and definitely by these corporate security forces like this. Attack dogs are loving terrifying and can do real damage to people and the rational response to a dog trying to bite your arms and legs is to fight back. This results in either media reports of "aww the poor dogs were hurt by the protesters  " or even worse people being charged with resisting arrest for not peacefully letting an angry dog attack them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 14:22
|
|
|
Did u know the Lakota eat dogs?? It's actually the doggies who should be scared.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 19:32
|
|
|
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/key-ruling-dakota-access-pipeline-due-end-friday-41967632 Federal judge denied temporary injunction, but "three federal agencies asked the pipeline company to "voluntarily pause" work on a segment that tribal officials say holds sacred sites and artifacts."
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
Is the state eminent-domaning this land for a private company? Why don't they just build around the reservation, it seems like its not that much extra mileage on a pipeline going all the way from ND to IL?
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 21:16
|
|
|
The Aardvark posted:http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/key-ruling-dakota-access-pipeline-due-end-friday-41967632 https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/joint-statement-department-justice-department-army-and-department-interior-regarding-standing
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 22:06
|
|
|
From the latest NPR article (I know.) In Friday's ruling, U.S. District Judge James E. Boasberg acknowledged that "the United States' relationship with the Indian tribes has been contentious and tragic." But he went on to say that the Army Corps "likely complied" with its obligation to consult the tribe, adding that the tribe "has not shown it will suffer injury that would be prevented by any injunction the Court could issue." Solid legal decisions being made based on what make have likey occured. Coverage from the tribes, multiple stories: http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/story/dakota-pipeline This is not just about sacred lands. The misourri river is the sole water source for the Standing Rock Sioux, and this pipeline will run along/under it. Because they always function perfectly, and the longer that they are around, the safer they are. Although 'sacred lands' has a lot of rather goofy cultural baggage attached to the phrase when used by a native. Let's put it this way: If one of the more widely accepted religions in america (take your pick) Got its graveyards and mausoleums bulldozed to make a crude oil pipeline under a reservoir, it would be a clusterfuck, on all the 24-hour news channels. It's 'sacred indian burial grounds' though (spooky music), but it's still a loving cemetery. "But we can make lots of money, gently caress you." e- And they're all going to run with the 'sacred sites and artifacts' story and not the water source, because it makes for better TV. Maybe they'll get haunted?  Stay tuned!
Complaint Compilation fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Sep 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 22:08
|
|
|
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 22:16
|
|
|
For what it's worth, just got off the phone with my mom who has taught for decades at a tribal college on a reservation in South Dakota. I asked about the DA Pipeline protests and how her students and the locals were reacting, some quick thoughts: -Unsurprisingly it's a huge topic of conversation and many Lakota are very passionate and fired up about it. Two of her top students went on leave for the semester to protest. -The local tribe has been supplying emergency services and other support to the protesters-- healthcare, porta-potties, food. -Originally, the pipeline was to be built very near Bismarck, ND (the state capital) and locals protested that it might harm the water supply (Missouri River). So route it through the reservation and risk contaminating their water supply, who cares about Natives lol. The general impression is that the ND state government is incredibly contemptuous and dismissive of Native Americans. "Not in my backyard" said the white people, "gently caress over the Indians instead, no one cares about them lazy drunk Prairie N_____." -She echoed my concerns that this could get very violent. There are daily prayers for peace on campus, but the (very justified) anger and resentment towards state and federal governments runs deep. These people are absolutely willing to fight, the situation is taken as an attack on the sovereignty, dignity, and identity of Native Americans in general. There are a lot of people who are anxious this will turn into another Wounded Knee. e: and regarding my last post about dogs, the Lakota do actually eat puppy stew (moreso historically than now, but it still persists) ceremonially. Racist assholes will make jokes about how Lakotas eat dogs because they're poor or whatever. Dogs are highly valued and sacred animals (only behind buffalo and horses) and eating puppies in particular is part of ritual healing and other ceremonies. They're not consumed strictly as food, and very rarely in modern times. Prior to the introduction of horses, dogs (sunka) were used to pull travois and in many other working roles. Horses are called sunka wakan, literally "sacred/holy/powerful dog." Dogs are integral to traditional Lakota society. There's probably some symbolic importance in how attack dogs were being used against the protesters. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Sep 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Those poor armed law enforcement officers and corparate 'security firm' with attack dogs. They're getting getting horses ridden NEAR them. "Either way, it is Iowans who will be left paying for these aspiring criminals who take matters into their own hands and buck the rule of law, which said this pipeline will be constructed." That sounds like a line from There Will Be Blood. Classy, DesMoines. 
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
PoorMoralCompass posted:Those poor armed law enforcement officers and corparate 'security firm' with attack dogs. They're getting getting horses ridden NEAR them. I dunno man horses are smart and bitey assholes, I'm worried. More seriously, gently caress the media coverage of this. Just go ahead and call them uppity Prairie N______ already. Horses like to inhale a bunch of air and puff up while you're saddling them. So that when you go to mount the saddle it's loose and you fall off like a dumbass, then the horse bites you and steps on your feet. 
Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 23:42 on Sep 9, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 23:39
|
|
|
Damnit, how did I not see that already got posted?  At least I got to post Andrew Trumpson.
|
|
#
?
Sep 9, 2016 23:42
|
|
|
Justice Department statement: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/joint-statement-department-justice-department-army-and-department-interior-regarding-standing quote:Joint Statement from the Department of Justice, the Department of the Army and the Department of the Interior Regarding Standing Rock Sioux Tribe v. U.S. Army Corps of Engineers http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/feds-block-construction-of-dakota-access-pipeline-despite-court-decision/article/2601433 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 01:22 on Sep 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 01:19
|
|
|
MrChupon posted:Is the state eminent-domaning this land for a private company? Why don't they just build around the reservation, it seems like its not that much extra mileage on a pipeline going all the way from ND to IL? Yep, this is common for these pipeline projects lately. Oil company bitches that trains to move oil costs too much, state hurries through a cursory environmental impact study then starts waving the eminent domain hammer at anyone in the way that won't sell because they want what they think will be huge tax revenues. Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 01:34 on Sep 10, 2016 |
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 01:24
|
|
|
Liquid Communism posted:Yep, this is common for these pipeline projects lately. Oil company bitches that trains to move oil costs too much, state hurries through a cursory environmental impact study then starts waving the eminent domain hammer at anyone in the way that won't sell because they want what they think will be huge tax revenues. Or the wonderful meme going around: "12,000 temporary construction jobs!" 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 01:28
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Or the wonderful meme going around: "12,000 temporary construction jobs!" PoorMoralCompass posted:Those poor armed law enforcement officers and corparate 'security firm' with attack dogs. To provide context, that's Bill Gerhard, president of the Iowa State Building & Construction Trades Council. He's going to suck all the oil company dick possible because these pipelines stand to make people he represents good money in sweet short term construction projects with an extra tip to rush before a legal challenge succeeds. Disgusting that a union man is so happy to characterize a picket line as dangerous, but hey, FYGM. Notice how happy he is that the Iowa Utilities Board (which consists of three people) decided to reaffirm that they were cool with authorizing eminent domain last week to force landowners who don't want to have an oil pipeline run though their goddamn farmland to sell.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 01:34
|
|
|
Is there any one place to get information on this? Surprisingly, I have people on facebook defending the oil company http://m.bismarcktribune.com/news/o...a0f29d7fbc.html http://www.kcci.com/news/archaeologist-no-human-remains-found-at-pipeline-site/41226410 Most of it reads like bullshit, but is there any central place for collecting facts and debunking crap from lobbyists?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 02:18
|
|
|
A bit of a crosspost, but just a reminder:Wikipedia yeah I know a lovely source posted:The population on Pine Ridge has among the shortest life expectancies of any group in the Western Hemisphere: approximately 47 years for males and 52 years for females. Everything is fine, what are these Indians mad about??
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 08:57
|
|
|
Pellisworth posted:A bit of a crosspost, but just a reminder: Also, Just Move to the City is not a solution when our social net has failed you in education and systemic biases keep employers from hiring you. Phoenix is surrounded by four reservations that are no more distant from the city center and other suburban jobs than any of the numerous other sprawl communities in the region. But what do you know, poverty and unemployment are higher among people living there than elsewhere. gently caress's sake, Fort McDowell Yavapai and Salt River Akimel O'otham/Pii-Posh are right next to North loving Scottsdale, but they're both poor and disadvantaged. Of course to the residents of Scottsdale (north Scottsdale is very, very, very wealthy, as is nearby Fountain Hills, where Sheriff loving Joe lives) they're just filthy savages. Yet it's still far, far better to live on one of those reservations from an opportunity perspective than it is to live on say, the Navajo Nation or at Hopi or especially out at San Carlos.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 09:17
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:Justice Department statement: Wow, holy poo poo, the DOJ is shutting the whole thing down for now? That seems uncharacteristically rosy.
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 10:31
|
|
|
Did someone finally wake up the single senior loving citizen at the DOJ responsored for reminding them that they have treaty obligations?
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 14:05
|
|
|
I have nothing useful to add to the discussion but check out this native biker gang's leather at the protest: 
|
|
#
?
Sep 10, 2016 15:10
|
|
|
As a sperglord, I say yay trains and gently caress pipelines. We already have the infrastructure to move the oil, train tracks and railcars. When the oil runs out, those tracks will still be used to haul other cargo, and those railcars can be repurposed. There is no need to build new infrastructure and cause all this trouble just so the oil companies can get their dicks sucked a little faster.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2016 00:40
|
|
|
Arrest warrant (criminal trespassing) is out for Amy Goodman, who was covering the protest and the violence against protesters. http://www.democracynow.org/2016/9/10/breaking_arrest_warrant_issued_for_amy
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2016 13:03
|
|
|
WorldsStrongestNerd posted:As a sperglord, I say yay trains and gently caress pipelines. We already have the infrastructure to move the oil, train tracks and railcars. When the oil runs out, those tracks will still be used to haul other cargo, and those railcars can be repurposed. There is no need to build new infrastructure and cause all this trouble just so the oil companies can get their dicks sucked a little faster. Runs out, or like happened to the tar sands, just becomes economically unprofitable.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2016 13:18
|
|
|
WorldsStrongestNerd posted:As a sperglord, I say yay trains and gently caress pipelines. We already have the infrastructure to move the oil, train tracks and railcars. When the oil runs out, those tracks will still be used to haul other cargo, and those railcars can be repurposed. There is no need to build new infrastructure and cause all this trouble just so the oil companies can get their dicks sucked a little faster. You don't want to move oil by train, especially US shale oil - it's very rich in methane, which is highly combustible should there be an incident.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2016 03:41
|
|
|
Fluffy Chainsaw posted:You don't want to move oil by train, especially US shale oil - it's very rich in methane, which is highly combustible should there be an incident. Not as big an issue if we require that the old DOT3 cars be decomissioned and replaced wit modern cars that don't fail as easily.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2016 07:42
|
|
|
Fluffy Chainsaw posted:You don't want to move oil by train, especially US shale oil - it's very rich in methane, which is highly combustible should there be an incident. Lets be honest: it doesn't matter which method they use, they'll gently caress up. Over and over again. Right now, the difference in methods is how quickly the company can make a profit.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2016 13:28
|
|
|
Fluffy Chainsaw posted:You don't want to move oil by train, especially US shale oil - it's very rich in methane, which is highly combustible should there be an incident. on the other hand, if there's an incident with a train it's much more likely to be recognized and reported than a pipeline
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2016 13:46
|
|
|
Condiv posted:on the other hand, if there's an incident with a train it's much more likely to be recognized and reported than a pipeline Incidents are much more widely reported when they kill 47 people, everyone look at the genius who cracked the loving code.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
tsa posted:Incidents are much more widely reported when they kill 47 people, everyone look at the genius who cracked the loving code. Not quite. Incidents are much more widely reported when they kill 47 people instantaneously and photogenically. If there's a pipeline leak that will on average give 470 people living downstream cancer over the next year, there's a lot less pressure to report it or fix it.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 03:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 24, 2024 14:14 |
|
|
Exactly. Here for example : http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/welcome-to-beautiful-parkersburg/ quote:Until that happens, these substances will continue to spread, unchecked. Not long ago, the Little Hocking water district commissioned a study to see whether any of the C8 replacements were contaminating the town’s aquifer. Researchers tested worms unearthed from Little Hocking’s well field, a scraggly meadow overlooking the vast expanse of storage tanks and smokestacks at the Washington Works plant. They found a number of C8’s chemical cousins, including C5, C6, C7, C9 and C10. Once again, local residents may have been unwittingly exposed to toxins whose ultimate effect on human health is unknown. TL:DR : DuPont covers up chemical byproducts of Teflon production contaminating the watershed for the town next to their Washington Works plant for decades with Perfluorooctanoic acid, a toxic and carcinogenic chemical that persists indefinitely in the environment and builds up in those consuming it. Associations with increased rates of birth defect and several types of cancer. quote:In late 2012, scientists at Emory University compared health risks in workers at a DuPont chemical plant in West Virginia with high PFOA exposure to the risks of the same diseases in other regional DuPont factory workers and in the US population. In comparison with the other DuPont workers, workers at the high-PFOA plant were at roughly three times the risk of dying of mesothelioma or chronic kidney disease, and roughly twice the risk of dying of diabetes mellitus. Workers were at similarly elevated risk for kidney cancer and for non-cancer kidney diseases. In rodents, PFOA concentrates in the kidneys. Yet the only way it got brought up was Huffpo investigative journalism last year, and DuPont long since settled a class-action lawsuit from those effected with a waiver of further claims of damages. I bring this up here specifically because DuPont is a relatively well thought of company in the chemical and petrochemical business, and this is business as usual for them.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2016 09:22
|
|