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Lovecraft is pretty good but overrated in my opinion. Though if I am looking that read from that wave of famous pulpy weird fiction authors, I'd probably pick Howard over Lovecraft. Even if some lit critics and authors really loving hate the guy's work I think Howard's stuff is a pretty solid read for what it is. And both had their issues with race in some pretty obvious ways.
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Sep 7, 2016 05:56
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rocket_man38 posted:For the love of God though, do NOT watch any Lovecraft inspired films. Dean Stockwell and Jeffrey Combs are sci fi icons that are big Lovecraft fans, but gently caress all the films suck. In the Mouth of Madness owns, but even though the Stuart Gordon movies aren't particularly Lovecraftian that doesn't mean they suck. Re-Animator, Dagon and From Beyond are good for what they are. Vincent Price was in The Haunted Palace, and that was probably the first Lovecraft movie (?) and that one is okay too.
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Sep 7, 2016 05:57
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dlvIYXrf4U
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Sep 7, 2016 05:57
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Fire Barrel posted:Lovecraft is pretty good but overrated in my opinion. Though if I am looking that read from that wave of famous pulpy weird fiction authors, I'd probably pick Howard over Lovecraft. Even if some lit critics and authors really loving hate the guy's work I think Howard's stuff is a pretty solid read for what it is. Howard's issues with race are fairly overblown. If you read his letters it's pretty obvious he's not a racist at all. The fact that some of his characters are isn't really surprising given the setting.
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Sep 7, 2016 06:01
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PinkoBastard posted:In the Mouth of Madness owns, but even though the Stuart Gordon movies aren't particularly Lovecraftian that doesn't mean they suck. Re-Animator, Dagon and From Beyond are good for what they are. Vincent Price was in The Haunted Palace, and that was probably the first Lovecraft movie (?) and that one is okay too. Ya, Re-animator was supposed to be a horror comedy, and it did its job well.
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Sep 7, 2016 06:02
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natetimm posted:Howard's issues with race are fairly overblown. If you read his letters it's pretty obvious he's not a racist at all. The fact that some of his characters are isn't really surprising given the setting. Fair point, but I think some of the language may still be off putting to readers if they don't quite know what they're getting into - especially in some of the Solomon Kane stories. However, I still will recommend him to people since I think Howard excelled at a style that was at one time both straightforward but engaging. The Hyborian Age, for example, is a really vivid, well crafted setting in my opinion. Also, as far as Lovecraft adaptations go, I like In the Mouth of Madness and Re-Animator. Those were both pretty good.
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Sep 7, 2016 06:07
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKb0_rfZEsU the silent version of Call of Cthulhu is probably best HPL film out there (because it's so long and boring) there is one notable special effect that makes it a worthy film adaptation of an HPL work
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Sep 7, 2016 06:07
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Fire Barrel posted:Fair point, but I think some of the language may still be off putting to readers if they don't quite know what they're getting into - especially in some of the Solomon Kane stories. However, I still will recommend him to people since I think Howard excelled at a style that was at one time both straightforward but engaging. The Hyborian Age, for example, is a really vivid, well crafted setting in my opinion. The Hyborian age is where he gets most of his criticism but really that's just because there are so many things referred to as "black" when it comes to villains. You've got Black Acheronians, which are basically just demon hybrids, the Picts, who are described as dark-skinned and pretty much universally hated as savages, savage apes and ape-men, and then actual black people located in the Black Kingdoms far to the south who get enslaved by Stygia and Zingara. Conan, himself seen as a barbarian and mostly unwelcome in the lands of "civilized" men, actually spends a fair amount of time as a pirate captain freeing mostly black slaves and sailing with them against their previous captors. Granted, most of them end up dying on his adventures, but they're absolutely not slaves when they serve under him and they enjoy getting their revenge on their previous tormentors. Conan does run into a fair amount of evil black men in service of other more powerful villains, but he doesn't really treat them any differently.
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Sep 7, 2016 06:19
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Hey I heard Lovecraft was a bit racist, c/d?
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Sep 7, 2016 06:23
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natetimm posted:The Hyborian age is where he gets most of his criticism but really that's just because there are so many things referred to as "black" when it comes to villains. You've got Black Acheronians, which are basically just demon hybrids, the Picts, who are described as dark-skinned and pretty much universally hated as savages, savage apes and ape-men, and then actual black people located in the Black Kingdoms far to the south who get enslaved by Stygia and Zingara. Conan, himself seen as a barbarian and mostly unwelcome in the lands of "civilized" men, actually spends a fair amount of time as a pirate captain freeing mostly black slaves and sailing with them against their previous captors. Granted, most of them end up dying on his adventures, but they're absolutely not slaves when they serve under him and they enjoy getting their revenge on their previous tormentors. Conan does run into a fair amount of evil black men in service of other more powerful villains, but he doesn't really treat them any differently. Yeah, that's basically why I think the Hyborian Age gets undue flack. Hell, I think if anything is really singled out by Howard in his works, especially stories involving Conan, it's civilized society. So much of the nastiness in those books stems from people that come from more developed societies than the Cimmerians or the other groups marginalized by the "advanced" civilizations in the world. Some lines in the Kane stories, though, are still pretty rough and are just a sign of the times. It's worth noting, though, that those ideas don't really feature all that heavily into the Kane stories either. And I single out Kane because, ostensibly, it's has a historical setting as its backdrop. Fire Barrel fucked around with this message at 06:36 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 06:32
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Fire Barrel posted:Yeah, that's basically why I think the Hyborian Age gets undue flack. Hell, I think if anything is really singled out by Howard in his works, especially stories involving Conan, it's civilized society. So much of the nastiness in those books stems from people that come from more developed societies than the Cimmerians or the other groups marginalized by the "advanced" civilizations in the world. When you said Kane I thought at first you were conflating the work of Karl Edward Wagner with Howard, then double-checked and remembered Solomon Kane. Wagner's Kane is pretty badass.
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Sep 7, 2016 07:16
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Hey the first Re-Animator movie is the goddamn poo poo, eff your ess you ess eaters
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Sep 7, 2016 07:20
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marry/gently caress/kill hitchcock giger lovecraft
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Sep 7, 2016 07:24
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Hey the first Re-Animator movie is the goddamn poo poo, eff your ess you ess eaters this movie too https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQXmlf3Sefg baaaaa
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Sep 7, 2016 07:27
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Guys, I have to tell you how this dude born in 1890 was so racist. Like, so racist that sensible people like me would have trouble reading how works now. If you do try to read them, make sure a safe space is nearby, and if any of your professors ever mention him without a tragger warning, I hope you complain until he gets fired. I know I'm white, but I really hope that by telling you this I can prove that I'm "one of the good ones"
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Sep 7, 2016 07:28
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Hey the first Re-Animator movie is the goddamn poo poo, eff your ess you ess eaters  
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Sep 7, 2016 07:31
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counterfeitsaint posted:I know I'm white, but I really hope that by telling you this I can prove that I'm "one of the good ones" Racism has become much more important now that it mostly makes white people feel bad.
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Sep 7, 2016 07:31
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He was cool if you like overwrought self-important prose, op. His themes might appeal to you if you feel alienated in an uncaring and unintelligible universe but frankly you can get that from Kafka and his writing was better (and less racist).
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Sep 7, 2016 07:51
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he's good but all his stories are pretty much the same thing thomas ligotti, now there is a good horror writer
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Sep 7, 2016 08:44
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How can anyone hate Mouth of Madness?
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Sep 7, 2016 10:50
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rocket_man38 posted:He also told his wife something to the effect of "I hate all Jews but you". Well. He was clearly a better husband than I have ever been.
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Sep 7, 2016 10:57
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dookifex_maximus posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKb0_rfZEsU True Detective Season 1 is the best Lovecraft to be filmed
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Sep 7, 2016 10:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tTHn2tHhcIProfessor Shark posted:True Detective Season 1 is the best Lovecraft to be filmed ~the king in yellow~
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Sep 7, 2016 11:12
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Speaking of cool ideas and bad writing, Chambers
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Sep 7, 2016 11:18
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Professor Shark posted:True Detective Season 1 is the best Lovecraft to be filmed I like how encountering the Yellow King's true form as a swirling cosmic horror broke Russ' brain by turning him from a self-destructive death-seeking nihilist rear end in a top hat into a chill optimist.
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Sep 7, 2016 11:29
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I like how it drove goons insane, ranting and raving about how it was all a hallucination and the show was a straight forward cop drama
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Sep 7, 2016 11:35
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Professor Shark posted:I like how it drove goons insane, ranting and raving about how it was all a hallucination and the show was a straight forward cop drama It was though.
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Sep 7, 2016 11:48
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Said by someone who has apparently never read Lovecraft. sounds like pretty much everyone ITT I've loved the guy's stuff since I was a kid and re-read my faves every year around Halloween with a big smile on my face, that notion that incomprehensible horror lurks in literally every corner always resonated he wrote a ton and the amount of racism in his output is a rounding error unless of course you're simply rebroadcasting what you heard from Twitter cherrypickers for virtue points in other news https://www.change.org/p/the-world-fantasy-award-make-octavia-butler-the-wfa-statue-instead-of-lovecraft tldr tumblr kids who don't read want to change the World Fantasy Award statue from a humorous caricature of the beloved and massively influential HP Lovecraft to an incredibly respectful rendition of some black woman named Octavia Butler who is best known for being black and a woman and also for such famous fantasy works as
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Sep 7, 2016 11:49
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Lovecraft's body of work isn't THAT large and dismissing his explicit racial ideology as basically not there is doing him a disservice imo. As other people in the thread have noted it tied into his general fear of everything, but I'll take it a step further and tie it to his fear of evolution. Black people in his work are frequently likened directly or indirectly to apes, and this isn't a coincidence, it's because they suggested to him that the boundaries of humanity were mutable and that humanity itself is not a sacrosanct enlightenment white guy on a pedestal, it's just a beast that happened to be unusually pale for some reason. Read "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family" for example of what I mean. In some other stories there's a similar evolution-focused terror around fish. The Shadow Over Innsmouth for example turns on this horror that lies in humans not really being pure humans, having come from something nasty and subhuman that polite white guy society can't tolerate. It's a recurring theme with him and I think it's too meaningful for his stories to just disregard. There's nothing wrong with that either.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:09
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Internaut! posted:he wrote a ton and the amount of racism in his output is a rounding error I read a ton of Lovecraft in high school and had no sense of racism until seeing some documentary that quoted his personal correspondence a few years back. The closest thing to a negative about his work is that it's a lot like Reggae. It's fine in small doses, but it gets old quick if you try and binge on it.
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Sep 7, 2016 12:10
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idk OP but I played that Arkham Horror boardgame and let me tell you something: that game is a piece of poo poo!!
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Sep 7, 2016 12:15
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skasion posted:Lovecraft's body of work isn't THAT large and dismissing his explicit racial ideology as basically not there is doing him a disservice imo. As other people in the thread have noted it tied into his general fear of everything, but I'll take it a step further and tie it to his fear of evolution. Black people in his work are frequently likened directly or indirectly to apes, and this isn't a coincidence, it's because they suggested to him that the boundaries of humanity were mutable and that humanity itself is not a sacrosanct enlightenment white guy on a pedestal, it's just a beast that happened to be unusually pale for some reason. Read "Facts Concerning the Late Arthur Jermyn and His Family" for example of what I mean. In some other stories there's a similar evolution-focused terror around fish. The Shadow Over Innsmouth for example turns on this horror that lies in humans not really being pure humans, having come from something nasty and subhuman that polite white guy society can't tolerate. It's a recurring theme with him and I think it's too meaningful for his stories to just disregard. There's nothing wrong with that either. None of that is explicitly racist imo. Innsmouth was white. That debased redneck family that traveller came upon was white. In the very post I'm quoting you nailed his "subhuman lurking within the human" theme and yet you're still calling that racism, which I find weird. Sure the dude was hella racist. His stories aren't particularly, as far as I can tell. Nathilus fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 13:39
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He wrote a lot I can tell you that. Dude loved his craft.
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Sep 7, 2016 13:50
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Quote-Unquote posted:idk OP but I played that Arkham Horror boardgame and let me tell you something: that game is a piece of poo poo!! You should try the remake, Eldritch Horror. it's s much better balanced game
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Sep 7, 2016 13:53
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edit: ^ this turnip is absolutely correct, Eldritch Horror is the superior game in every way. Friends who were like "ugh I'm never playing Arkham Horror or Mansions of Madness again" are like "why don't we get Eldritch Horror out again, did you see there was a Mountains of Madness expansion, I hope you get it, I want to be the psychic waitress"Sp1r0_Agn3W posted:i enjoy dunwich horror and shadow over innsmouth and mountains of madness Also Color Out of Space. Most of the rest is pretty eh but I don't blame him, he got paid by the page. Companion Cube fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Sep 7, 2016 |
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Sep 7, 2016 14:06
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Companion Cube posted:Also Color Out of Space. Most of the rest is pretty eh but I don't blame him, he got paid by the page. Actually HPL mostly got paid by whatever the hell editors were willing to give him. He hated rejection and negotiation and often didn't shop a story around at all if it got turned down once. For Shadow, Horror, and Color combined he got paid a grand total of $265.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:13
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skasion posted:Actually HPL mostly got paid by whatever the hell editors were willing to give him. He hated rejection and negotiation and often didn't shop a story around at all if it got turned down once. For Shadow, Horror, and Color combined he got paid a grand total of $265. Wow, that's way worse. I wonder if they just weren't racist enough to catch the editor's eye. How much did he get for Thing on the Doorstep?
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Sep 7, 2016 14:34
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8-Bit Scholar posted:Hey the first Re-Animator movie is the goddamn poo poo, eff your ess you ess eaters Eh, I don't remember it being great, but I do remember it being pretty fun. Haven't watched it in a while though, so maybe it doesn't hold up. Internaut! posted:sounds like pretty much everyone ITT I think Lovecraft's ability to evoke that feeling is one reason why his works remain so popular. I mean, I still prefer Howard, but I have definitely return to Lovecraft's writing every so often. And yeah, though it came up in the thread, I do think that his body of work is well worth checking out even if some of his language isn't so "up to date." People who can't get past that cut themselves off from a pretty great collection of horror stories largely due to their own hang ups. Anyone with an interest in horror writing, or just horror in general, should check out at least a few of his stories if they want to get a fuller appreciation for the genre. As for that petition, it doesn't surprise me that it's happening and it definitely comes off as a cause people interested in "virtue points" would rally behind. I doubt they'll change it, though, since Lovecraft's literary contributions have made him a widely read and respected author.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:35
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Rutibex posted:You should try the remake, Eldritch Horror. it's s much better balanced game Does it have a rulebook that doesn't make you feel like you're actually in a Lovecraftian nightmare? I swear I read that thing (the rules for Arkham) like ten loving times and we tried playing a game and it lasted three hours and then it just kind of stopped and nobody knew what was going on but we decided to never play again.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:53
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Quote-Unquote posted:Does it have a rulebook that doesn't make you feel like you're actually in a Lovecraftian nightmare? Arkham is bloated as gently caress and my experiences with the game mirror yours almost to a tee. Except the group I was in tried playing more than once. Don't know about Eldritch Horror, but Mansions of Madness was much easier to get into and more fun to actually sit down and play than Arkham. Perhaps not as serious about the other, but surprisingly robust mechanics made the game a lot more engaging. And combat was actually pretty fun.
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Sep 7, 2016 14:58
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