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Garcin
Jun 15, 2000
well, you could always declare yourself for jesus and go the non-profit route

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The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.
gosh i just think it'd be easier if the mob hacked apart the super rich with machetes and divvied up their wealth in a megadrome fight to the death

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord

je1 healthcare posted:

You want a basic guaranteed income?

Alright what if we took your $60,000, bundled it together, and instead gave it to a school. So you can attend. Not for free idiot, you still have to pay full price.

I like this post, because a lot of people who get hustled by ITT, DeVry, Phoenix etc... Really believe in the guaranteed good job aspect. But can't see the forest for the trees.

~ANECDOTAL STORIES AHEAD, D&D FACT CHECKERS NEED NOT READ AHEAD~

Being a Man From CircumstancesTM as well as a Miltary VeteranTM, I saw a lot of folks go to these schools for technical certs and things like that. You know, AC Repair, electrical work, CNC operations, welding and poo poo like that. Not even associate's degrees or bachelor's degrees, just the certs. Those are all well and good. They definitely can give you a boost in those types of fields, and they don't take long to complete.

The thing that baffles me, is that any local community college and hell even some universities offer programs and technical certs like that. Often with night classes. Often with hybrid courses with an online/classroom mix.

At a significantly reduced cost. With better access to benefits and scholarships and such.

No goddamn employer is gonna look at a WELDING CERT from an online only scam school and say "this is just the guy we need!" But if you just take the time to go down to whatever community college nearby, you can get actual training in a god drat classroom and workshops at a significantly reduced price at a school with at least a local reputation. Employers might be more inclined to give you a second look, even if your only experience is in a classroom workshop.

Garcin
Jun 15, 2000
two men(or women or LGBTQ!) enter, one (LGBTQ!) leaves.

or we should just go with the purge

or gattaca

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord
Sorry these things get me really pissed. Strikes a nerve with me because they're predators that prey on low income folks and veterans and people like that just trying to make a better life.

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

Iron Prince posted:

The thing that baffles me, is that any local community college and hell even some universities offer programs and technical certs like that. Often with night classes. Often with hybrid courses with an online/classroom mix.

They advertise really well, and their salespeople are really really good. That's really all it is.

Garcin
Jun 15, 2000

Iron Prince posted:

I like this post, because a lot of people who get hustled by ITT, DeVry, Phoenix etc... Really believe in the guaranteed good job aspect. But can't see the forest for the trees.

~ANECDOTAL STORIES AHEAD, D&D FACT CHECKERS NEED NOT READ AHEAD~

Being a Man From CircumstancesTM as well as a Miltary VeteranTM, I saw a lot of folks go to these schools for technical certs and things like that. You know, AC Repair, electrical work, CNC operations, welding and poo poo like that. Not even associate's degrees or bachelor's degrees, just the certs. Those are all well and good. They definitely can give you a boost in those types of fields, and they don't take long to complete.

The thing that baffles me, is that any local community college and hell even some universities offer programs and technical certs like that. Often with night classes. Often with hybrid courses with an online/classroom mix.

At a significantly reduced cost. With better access to benefits and scholarships and such.

No goddamn employer is gonna look at a WELDING CERT from an online only scam school and say "this is just the guy we need!" But if you just take the time to go down to whatever community college nearby, you can get actual training in a god drat classroom and workshops at a significantly reduced price at a school with at least a local reputation. Employers might be more inclined to give you a second look, even if your only experience is in a classroom workshop.

This is extremely well written. Gov't and the free market have failed, so where do we go?

The Protagonist
Jun 29, 2009

The average is 5.5? I thought it was 4. This is very unsettling.

Flesh Forge posted:

They advertise really well, and their salespeople are really really good. That's really all it is.

do you think that the capital behind things like for-profit universities and plasma banks ever think to themselves "i wonder what the break-even is on lower class biomass-as-fuel?"

dookifex_maximus
Aug 10, 2016

by zen death robot
well if we could just get jus ad bellum we could just kill them

dookifex_maximus
Aug 10, 2016

by zen death robot
maybe accuse them of dealing drugs, leave them in a ditch

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

The Protagonist posted:

do you think that the capital behind things like for-profit universities and plasma banks ever think to themselves "i wonder what the break-even is on lower class biomass-as-fuel?"

Up until today a hobo crack addict was worth a lot more alive to them than dead, but now...

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG
Why would you enroll literal hobos in your expensive for-profit education program when you know most of them will never pay you back? Student loans generally can't be gotten out from under via bankruptcy and some of them will pay you back someday

Gaunab
Feb 13, 2012
LUFTHANSA YOU FUCKING DICKWEASEL

The Protagonist posted:

gosh i just think it'd be easier if the mob hacked apart the super rich with machetes and divvied up their wealth in a megadrome fight to the death

that sounds way too much like socialism for this country

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

Flesh Forge posted:

Why would you enroll literal hobos in your expensive for-profit education program when you know most of them will never pay you back? Student loans generally can't be gotten out from under via bankruptcy and some of them will pay you back someday

The same reason kids get theatre degrees. That's not the way they think.

Ein cooler Typ
Nov 26, 2013

by FactsAreUseless
https://twitter.com/dril/status/773221347145216000

dookifex_maximus
Aug 10, 2016

by zen death robot

:eng99:

H.P. Hovercraft
Jan 12, 2004

one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
Slippery Tilde

dookifex_maximus posted:

ITT had just announced their programming course and it had some legit languages on it, so I thought it would be a nice gently caress around to get me a paper that has the correct words on it. i mean, even if you can afford to go to harvard or yale,

compare how much tuition at ITT is/was to yale for some primo lmao

a dog from hell
Oct 18, 2009

by zen death robot

The Protagonist posted:

Hey guys what if, just spitballing here but... what if capitalism didn't have a place for everyone who was born in the free world? What do we do with those without a place(job)?

Capitalism has a place for you... you're just not likely to like it...

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

compare how much tuition at ITT is/was to yale for some primo lmao

rofl holy poo poo I never really looked into exact tuition rates for ITT but according to some rando site I found on Google, they charge a flat $300 out of state fee plus $493 per credit hour. Plus who knows what else fees. Lab fees. Computer fees. Online fees.

By my lovely math taking just one standard 3 credit class would be at least $1779.

To put it in perspective, I'm retarded and decided learning Chinese would be my poo poo and took a Chinese course through my local community college. Yeah lol at CC all you want, but it was a great intro to the language and helped me decide if it was something I could or want to peruse more (I do). It also helped me get accepted into the ACTUAL UNIVERSITY I WANT TO ATTEND in the spring, and the total cost was $450 for a four credit language class including lab time and books.

H.P. Hovercraft
Jan 12, 2004

one thing a computer can do that most humans can't is be sealed up in a cardboard box and sit in a warehouse
Slippery Tilde
yep

i mean sure your typical ITT applicant was never gonna get into an ivy but the thing keepin em out was never money if they're willing to pay for-profit education rates since they're the same

Justin Tyme
Feb 22, 2011


Iron Prince posted:

I like this post, because a lot of people who get hustled by ITT, DeVry, Phoenix etc... Really believe in the guaranteed good job aspect. But can't see the forest for the trees.

~ANECDOTAL STORIES AHEAD, D&D FACT CHECKERS NEED NOT READ AHEAD~

Being a Man From CircumstancesTM as well as a Miltary VeteranTM, I saw a lot of folks go to these schools for technical certs and things like that. You know, AC Repair, electrical work, CNC operations, welding and poo poo like that. Not even associate's degrees or bachelor's degrees, just the certs. Those are all well and good. They definitely can give you a boost in those types of fields, and they don't take long to complete.

The thing that baffles me, is that any local community college and hell even some universities offer programs and technical certs like that. Often with night classes. Often with hybrid courses with an online/classroom mix.

At a significantly reduced cost. With better access to benefits and scholarships and such.

No goddamn employer is gonna look at a WELDING CERT from an online only scam school and say "this is just the guy we need!" But if you just take the time to go down to whatever community college nearby, you can get actual training in a god drat classroom and workshops at a significantly reduced price at a school with at least a local reputation. Employers might be more inclined to give you a second look, even if your only experience is in a classroom workshop.

But Iron Prince, you'll never make Lt Colonel until you finish your fourth online degree in military history. Because everyone knows having multiple online degrees through AMU means your are a veritable genius.

LordArgh
Mar 17, 2009

Nap Ghost

quote:

Leon Wiggins II

Vegetable
Oct 22, 2010

The Protagonist posted:

gosh i just think it'd be easier if the mob hacked apart the super rich with machetes and divvied up their wealth in a megadrome fight to the death
jokes on them the money's all squirreled away in the caymans

Wicker Man
Sep 5, 2007

Just like Columbus...


Clapping Larry
Learning mandarin right? I've always considered that and maybe some spanish. Any other language would be strictly for fun.

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

i mean sure your typical ITT applicant was never gonna get into an ivy but the thing keepin em out was never money if they're willing to pay for-profit education rates since they're the same

I get your point, but the problem is these people don't even fuckin know they can get a superior education at a fraction of the cost locally. Yeah, not saying University of Houston or University of New Orleans has WORLD WIDE NAME BRAND REPUTATION FOR EXCELLENCE, but it's drat better than ITT.

I know that's mind boggling to some people, but when you come from a background where your parents never went to college. Your brothers and sisters never went. Your grandparents. Aunts and uncles. The only time your high school acknowledged it was during a "College Fair" they held on campus in the dead middle of summer, and lol if you bothered going to that when you could be drinking stolen Busch beers instead. You simply don't know how, when, where to start on this poo poo. I know its not the same for all of us, and yes, I must be a trash person, but that's the background I came from.

I'm learning the hard way through the university system now finishing my bachelors at 28 years old. I'm fortunate enough that my GI Bill pays for it, so I don't have to sweat it much. Others aren't so fortunate.

It is easy to see why these supposed "idiots" can easily be duped into fishing out twice the price of a Yale bachelor's for an ITT Technical Cert instead. They don't know, no one ever told them what costs are like. They have no one to relate to. So a slick salesman comes by and tells them they are PERFECTLY suited for a career in CYBER ENHANCEMENT MARKETING TECHNOLOGIES, and fall for the same old tried and true salesman tactics.

Yes, I get it. The POWER to research is in your hands. I get that a lot of these people aren't doing their homework (lol), but when you're destitute, in hard times or some fuckin myriad of other situations and some salesman comes by and tells you you're gonna be the latest and greatest next big thing in SECURITY, CNC MACHINING and SMALL BOAT OPERATIONS all at once, people see it as an opportunity for a come up when they're just getting scammed.

I know this is a lot of :words: just to say what we already know. It pisses me off to see these fake rear end schools scam money from people who are legitimately trying to bring themselves up from nothing into something, as I'm sure it does all of us.

Rambling Robot
Sep 13, 2011
Duggar Fan Club Superstar #1 LOL
i wanna get it degree and work for the sa empire and get super rich.

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord

Wicker Man posted:

Learning mandarin right? I've always considered that and maybe some spanish. Any other language would be strictly for fun.

Hey, if you want to PM me about Mandarin, feel free. I'm by no means fully fluent... yet. But I can tell you about some unexpected hurdles you might face in your early time spent with the language having gone through that extreme pain myself recently. If you don't want to talk to me directly (fair enough) check out SA's own fairly great Chinese thread. Lot of very advanced students and fluent speakers there, and PM'ing a lot of them helped me get off the ground as I learn. Practically worth my tenbux alone for that thread.

dookifex_maximus
Aug 10, 2016

by zen death robot

H.P. Hovercraft posted:

yep

i mean sure your typical ITT applicant was never gonna get into an ivy but the thing keepin em out was never money if they're willing to pay for-profit education rates since they're the same

counterpoint: george w bush

Iron Prince
Aug 28, 2005
Buglord

Justin Tyme posted:

But Iron Prince, you'll never make Lt Colonel until you finish your fourth online degree in military history. Because everyone knows having multiple online degrees through AMU means your are a veritable genius.

I wanted to shoot myself everytime some rear end in a top hat E-4 got picked up for OCS because of his AMU degree while I was sitting around being too drunk to make E-7.

jenny jones fan
Dec 24, 2007

Iron Prince posted:

Slick marketing tends to fool a lot of people in dire circumstances and slick salesman employees are able to convince people who have never set foot in a school that all these extra fees and "great" financing deals are par for the course at any school. They prey on folks that don't know any better, really.

Sure bad on them for not doing the research on the school and other schools, but it's easy to see why people fall for it. Most of these folks simply don't have a frame of reference for how a "real" college or university operates in the first place.

E: I don't meant to effort post about poo poo in GBS so tldr gently caress for profit schools forever

Not to mention people are under the impression "surely this school can't be a scam because scams are illegal and the government would have done something and this school has been around for decades"

Mr. 47 posted:

I worked at ITT Tech Corporate Headquarters and I have no trouble believing everything that they're accused of and more.

Please please please share stories

Flesh Forge
Jan 31, 2011

LET ME TELL YOU ABOUT MY DOG

cuck cuck im gay posted:

Please please please share stories

seconding

unpacked robinhood
Feb 18, 2013

by Fluffdaddy

cuck cuck im gay posted:




Please please please share stories

JnnyThndrs
May 29, 2001

HERE ARE THE FUCKING TOWELS

Iron Prince posted:

I like this post, because a lot of people who get hustled by ITT, DeVry, Phoenix etc... Really believe in the guaranteed good job aspect. But can't see the forest for the trees.

~ANECDOTAL STORIES AHEAD, D&D FACT CHECKERS NEED NOT READ AHEAD~

Being a Man From CircumstancesTM as well as a Miltary VeteranTM, I saw a lot of folks go to these schools for technical certs and things like that. You know, AC Repair, electrical work, CNC operations, welding and poo poo like that. Not even associate's degrees or bachelor's degrees, just the certs. Those are all well and good. They definitely can give you a boost in those types of fields, and they don't take long to complete.

The thing that baffles me, is that any local community college and hell even some universities offer programs and technical certs like that. Often with night classes. Often with hybrid courses with an online/classroom mix.

At a significantly reduced cost. With better access to benefits and scholarships and such.

No goddamn employer is gonna look at a WELDING CERT from an online only scam school and say "this is just the guy we need!" But if you just take the time to go down to whatever community college nearby, you can get actual training in a god drat classroom and workshops at a significantly reduced price at a school with at least a local reputation. Employers might be more inclined to give you a second look, even if your only experience is in a classroom workshop.

Yeah, I've been saying the same poo poo for like 25 years about auto mechanic classes - the local CC gives a better education at a much, much lower price that those scamfuckers at the for-profits.

The only thing I can think of is that going to the CC requires a lot of actual planning and effort - many of the classes are full right away - you'd better apply the second registration starts, you have to figure out yourself how to plan your curriculum timewise, you're not going to be able to get it all done in 9 months or whatever, and you'll have to apply for aid yourself.

While the for-profits "streamline" the whole thing, just sign here and we take care of everything, right?

Well,.......except for the whole 'get a real job in your chosen field' thing.

Pimpcasso
Mar 13, 2002

VOLS BITCH
i remember browsing sa from the college library because i didnt have high speed internet in 2001

Top City Homo
Oct 15, 2014


Ramrod XTreme

quote:

"It's starting to feel like maybe I wasted the last four years," said Nancy Valdez, 27, of Long Beach.

She hoped that her bachelor’s degree in information systems and cybersecurity would help her protect hospitals and other important infrastructure from hackers.

A cashier at Disneyland, Valdez lives with her parents to save money. She owes $10,000 in student loans.

this world

this world is hell


but :lol:

Mr. 47
Jul 8, 2008

Well, I guess I'll just go fuck myself, then.

cuck cuck im gay posted:

Please please please share stories

I don't know that I have any dramatic stories of the crash. I was let go back in January in an early round of layoffs and, by then, was happy to take my severance and unemployment and find a better job. For the sake of convenience, I'll re-post my answer to a similar question on reddit:

I was a business analyst. I worked in operations directly under the COO, although I had dotted lines all over the place. I applied because I was working for the state, making very little money, but coming down to my last couple semesters in business school, and needed to build my resume. I wanted to pivot my career into analysis, but my experience was in the military and public sector. So I was applying for just about anything that had "analyst" in the name. Also, the state pays dick, and the 42% pay bump going to ITT was a big incentive.

I knew when I applied and interviewed that it was kind of a bullshit school, on the level of Phoenix University, DeVry, or Ole Miss. (After all, I certainly wouldn't go there.) A couple of people I interviewed and worked with seemed to really believe the story that they were providing opportunities to underprivileged students. The COO himself talked in my interview about the pressure that the government was putting on them, but dismissed it as political posturing. I didn't completely buy this, but my attitude at the time could best be described as "Winston".

There were a couple of benefits of working there. For the most part, I wasn't hassled. I got some interesting projects, and was left alone to work on them. I produced regular reports, and had a lot of time and freedom to play around with the software packages we used. That was when I first started learning VBA, which has been incredibly useful in my current position. The COO, to whom I reported directly, was always supportive and encouraging. Even when he laid me off, he was apologetic, and the severance package I was offered was generous and more than fair.

There were a number of things I liked about ITT. My salary was fair, they served lunch three days a week (and there was usually an interesting food truck out front the other days,) and I was offered RSUs in my compensation package. The 401k match was decent, and I genuinely liked most of the people I worked with. In fact, one of my closest coworkers came over to my new company and is on my team now, and I really enjoy working with him again. There were things I didn't like, though. The commute from downtown, where I live, was unpleasant, and everyone who wasn't executive level or higher had to enter through a side door, rather then the front. Also, the RSUs took two or three years to mature, and the stock price was so low that it wasn't really an incentive to stay on long term.

Also, the software we were using was seriously out of date. There had been efforts for years to convert to new software packages, so the company had stopped paying for the updates to the software we did use. The SQL client we used was a free download from the internet, and we used a horribly out of date version of Cognos for a lot of our reporting.

The worst part was the sort of solemn attitude that hung over the place. It was like a depressed library. There were lots of empty cubes, and most people didn't decorate their cubes at all. I knew we were doing poorly, but I don't think I realized how poorly until October or November, when our CEO arranged to have a big catered lunch under a tent in the parking lot. In his remarks I distinctly remember him saying something to the effect of, "I've talked to the guys in finance and we think we might be in positive revenue next year."

I did some research when I was interviewing and learned about the troubles the company was in. In the time I worked there, we were under investigation by three separate branches of the federal government for three separate kinds of fuckery, not to mention countless consumer organizations and state Attorneys General. The Department of Education was on us (obviously) for misuse of federal loan funds. The Consumer Protection Bureau was on us for false advertising. And the Securities and Exchange Commission was on us for some level of stock manipulation.

I only worked there for a few months, as I mentioned. In December, I and the other BAs were tasked with evaluating budgets and crunching numbers to determine where we would be cutting positions at various campuses. So it came as no real surprised when I was laid off soon after.

I was laid off on January 8 of this year. It was actually a surreal week. On the fourth I was in a fire, and spent most of the night in the hospital. I took off Monday and Tuesday on the advice of a doctor, and then was let go Friday. Honestly, I wasn't terribly upset. I wasn't happy there any longer, but had committed to sticking it out for a year. Obviously, they had other ideas. I don't want to name names, but I'm happy to answer questions if anyone has them.

Mr. 47 fucked around with this message at 14:42 on Sep 7, 2016

FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy
Closing the schools is a good first step, now let's see the responsible parties prosecuted for massive fraud.

gimme the GOD DAMN candy
Jul 1, 2007

notZaar posted:

Closing the schools is a good first step, now let's see the responsible parties prosecuted for massive fraud.

rich white people only get prosecuted for fraud if they hosed over other rich white people.

Carmant
Nov 23, 2015


Treadmill? What's that? Is that some kind of cake?


dookifex_maximus posted:

why yes, this is a token of my complicity in a system that does keep people in poverty, thank you for noticing

STFU dude

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FedEx Mercury
Jan 7, 2004

Me bad posting? That's unpossible!
Lipstick Apathy

Serious Frolicking posted:

rich white people only get prosecuted for fraud if they hosed over other rich white people.

How do you know they are rich white people? Sounds like you're just assuming.

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