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100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Having not been involved in this whole tiff the thing that most concerns me is that Pmom has been the steady vote leader the day through, but we haven't killed him yet.

This means a few things to me:

1) Town is not that convinced that he's scum. Why is this? Obviously there's no real concrete evidence on D1, but I'm surprised that even his accusers aren't necessarily going all out to convince people to vote him. Sure Taste has just been repeating his mantra, and while Somber laid out his case it seemed to be written in response to Pmom more than anything else. I don't feel there has been a lot players trying to do the groundwork necessary to get people to move to their cause. This is either because they don't believe in it themselves, but I just think it's because we're all inherently lazy.

2) This brings me to my second point. That we're lazy and apathetic. Were Pmom actually scum, there would've been stronger opposition. Someone would've been optioned up, there'd be little benefit in getting a bus in this early in the game and I think scum are content just letting town eat their own (because they could just save him on D1, bus on D2, and gain a day for their trouble). I feel pretty ok about our more vocal players, no one seems to be trying to control the narrative in any specific way so I think scum are just letting things play out on this D1.

So no I'm not comfortable voting Pmom. The only player who I read as scum without a shadow of a doubt was kordansk. So ##vote kordansk. I gotta work for a couple of hours but I'll be back for a while before going to bed and missing deadline.

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100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Actually I'll be around for another hour.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




kordansk posted:

Wait what?

We've had some chatty players but no one has really been super pushy about their ideas. Most everyone is keeping to themselves and only answering things when directly prodded. A more vocal player would be trying to encourage people to follow their leads to get something done. Like I said no one has been trying to persuade others to after Pmom outside of half hearted, "vote pmom/pmom's scum" it doesn't feel particularly convincing. Also, since no one is trying in particular to save Pmom I find it hard to believe there's a scum team at his back.

I'll put my case on you together now that I've a bit of time. I just wanted to get my vote in.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013





Let me know if I'm typing too many words in one go for you.

I'll

try

to

space

them

out.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




dongsbot 9000 posted:

if only there were a vocal player pushing for votes today

It's been a bit hard to take you seriously at times this game, but credit where credit's due.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Which isn't a bad strategy when scum, but there are so many reason why someone ends up lurking that we're better off with someone we've got cases against.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




kordansk posted:

Would not vote atomic soda at this point. Reasoning well thought out and did not misrepresent posts to create a narrative.

I don't like this sort of town read. You, Keane, and Max all did one, though Max's was in response to Keane's and more importantly he implies he agrees with them. Neither Keane or you do this and it just becomes an empty town read trying to garner some brownie points.

kordansk posted:

Ah yes, PMom, the anyone but vote me defense. Just curious, where do you stand on Taste?


Pinterest Mom posted:

As a rule I try to not engage with Taste early in the game. He always thinks I'm scum and I'm not good at reading him so it's not v useful.

This struck me as inconsistent as you say you'd vote Pmom, but only because he was trying to get anyone but himself executed. Nowhere do you mention, were you to be consistent with your taste vote, his use of a meta argument.

kordansk posted:

Pmom is looking to shift the case anywhere but them and is going for convenience by trying to push it on me. Pmom you should vote taste. FYI the defense "I'm town therefore don't vote me" is like the worst thing ever. What's your read on somber now? Complaining about being the vote leader without putting forth a real case is kind of silly. Notice I still haven't voted you. I have more than enough posts about you to justify it. Notice how I'm still on tremtas. How does that jive with your scum read on me? I can easily pile on without anyone questioning it.

This just reads scummy. Why haven't you done so? All I can tell about your vote on Taste is that it's been on meta reasoning and yet you lay out an 'anyone but me' case on Pmom, but clearly aren't sold enough on it to vote him out? It really doesn't make sense.

kordansk posted:

This - read my posts about taste.

The funny thing is you've tunneled on Taste for 1 thing, not unlike he's done with Pmom. Max's done a decent job explaining the bus to you I think.

Essentially the scummiest thing about you is your weak weak case on Taste and what I feel is your attempts to seem towny by not going after the vote leader even though you're sure they're scum too. Those actions just make no sense unless you're trying to not be seen on the vote list were Pmom to flip town, which is what scum would do.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




dongsbot 9000 posted:

STOP TALKING ABOUT CLORD

tremta is scum thank you

His posting has been so one sided that it's hard to make heads or tails of it, but I feel like his posting his always this one sided. I've always felt Taste was more opportunistic when scum, but I feel he's doing what he's doing to be annoying or because he doesn't care or both. This unfortunately doesn't necessarily make him scum.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




kordansk posted:

Read most recent post about why my opinion is changing on pmom. I mostly have been posting with them because they have been engaging with me as well. I suppose I could have taken a play from their book and just ignored the player.

I thought Pmom summed it up pretty well.

Pinterest Mom posted:

You take the opportunity to snipe at me and imply that I'm behaving in a suspicious way (without, I'll note, having been able to articulate why when pressed).
And that's been basically the entire day - you explicitly call for a Taste vote while building a narrative on me.

That behavior is pretty cut and dry scum. You do seem pretty set on this whole D1 meta thing being a tell. Is that a steadfast rule with you like "execute all liars"?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




I have to go to work now, but another player that struck me earlier though I'll have to re-read is Bottleknight, I don't remember it all but I feel he lays town reads on somber and pmom and votes keane and then just hasn't shown up since. It feels off but I need to look into it.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Taste doesn't ever seem to justify anything ever. I realize that's a meta defense but it's safe to say he's just agreed with whatever points were built up against Pmom. I get the feeling that he just doesn't care, were he scum and had a more "active" goal to pursue he'd be working harder for it, but it strikes me as just D1 apathy from someone who is so very often indifferent.

dongsbot 9000 posted:

tremta is scum because i know thank you

For example, while I do think that dongs is probably town, this argument doesn't do anything to convince me to actually agree with him.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Somberbrero posted:

We'll get into it later I guess, but a light reread of the past page or two has me thinking he's kind of bad town. He's made some legitimate attempts to engage. I could be wrong and you're welcome to restate your case but I do think you're scum in my heart of hearts.

The engagement hasn't got me all that convinced though.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Grandicap posted:

Hi 100! Welcome!

Hey there. It's been a while.

So I wanted to look closer at BK. And outside of his vote on Keane, which I'll pass as an early vote, nothing strikes me particularly amiss. Essentially where's BK, because that's a bad place to leave his vote, unless he's got more to add to it.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




100YrsofAttitude posted:

...which I'll pass as an early vote, nothing strikes me particularly amiss. Essentially where's BK, because that's a bad place to leave his vote, unless he's got more to add to it.

Actually for the time it came about that's not a bad vote, and frankly Keane hasn't offered anything of value since, despite being more or less around. I was kinda just going to give him a pass since he's sick and all, but that doesn't seem to be actually holding him back. Irreverent Keane is scum Keane.

If Kord's engagement is an attempt at good will I'll bite.

##unvote

##vote Keane

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




dongsbot 9000 posted:

the clord argument is so so so so so so so so stupid "gun to your head, whos scum?" "well, if youre gonna vig me, i-" "LOL WHOS TALKING ABOUT VIG WHY ARE YOU THINK ABOUT VIGS THERES NOTHING ABOUT OUR CONVERSATION THAT WOULD LEAD YOU TO THINK ABOUT VIGS"

its just the standard pedantic gotcha bullshit that makes people not want to post (other than general apathy) b/c the idiot crew is going to jump on you and people take that personally

Yeah it read like a joke of some sort. Completely just read past that one.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




dongsbot 9000 posted:

but i would DEFINTELY vote tremta

I won't be one to hold back a taste execution. I'll be puttering around for several more hours but if I can't sway anyone that Keane's the better vote then I'll switch.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




chaoslord posted:

I'm gonna ##vote kordansk

Beyond the good points by PMom and 100yrs (although he has since moved his vote, I agree with this post), this kord post absolutely was not true when it was made

I've only moved since Kord's been more engaged than keane, but he hasn't redeemed himself necessarily in my eyes.

Kashuno posted:

What is UP guys it's your boy Kashuno here comin into the thread asking some hard hitting questions like "who is town?" and "why do you folks need me to lead you to victory?"

This roster is actually turning out to be pretty classic actually.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




That, he lays a very poor town read on Atomic Soda earlier on as detailed by Bottlekash, and was fairly unhelpful in regards to his opinions when asked by Pmom. And despite saying he'll vote Pmom fairly regularly now, he hasn't, even though it's not like that would've been -1 or hammer.

I can definitely move back to kordansk though, I have no issue with that vote at all.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




For some reason I didn't think the conversation would keep going. I'm referencing Keane if anyone's unsure.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Birdstrike posted:

that is acceptable

also lol at the scums splitting the vote

Yeah this is dumb.

##unvote

##vote kordansk

I'll be around for another 30 minutes. If you can prove to me that taste is truly the better vote, or that we're going to non-execution due to apathy or stubbornness, then I'll vote him, but at the moment I think Kordansk stands a better chance of flipping scum.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Considering who is around to vote and who would actually move their vote it seems like Taste may be our only option. Something tells me that of those on Taste Birdstrike, Dongs, and kordansk himself obviously are going to be inflexible about changing their vote. The first two definitely seem to be of that sort. Taste will obviously not vote himself, but I don't see him moving off of pmom either. Somber has stated in enough ways that he doesn't believe in a taste execution, that he'd love to see Pmom fry, though I do wonder if he'd move off towards Kords. Kash would vote Taste but maybe not Kords?

I feel that for Kords we'd have to convince AS whereever she may be, Max, Kash and/or Somber to switch and two of those seem harder than not. Getting three could be tricky.

While for Taste Kash and Pmom seem to me like they'd easily vote that way and only 1 of Hats, KFC, Chaos, or AS, would have to be swayed.

I may've slipped up somewhere because I'm pretty darn tired, but Taste may be only really attainable execution tonight at this point.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




The Lord of Hats posted:

:okpos:

If something big comes up I'll potentially switch my vote to Taste, but I have a hard time seeing 'not-Kord' as the lynch here. Also we've got two jerks who aren't voting right now.

Please correct me because if you read my post I don't think Kords is as inevitable as it seems.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Pinterest Mom posted:

Dongs and Max have both said they'll vote kord and one of the non-voters is Grandi, who would also vote kord. That's 8 even without Somber or Keane.

K thanks. I can go to sleep easier then.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Chicattitude's a good name. I've been working and caring for a friend all day and I have to work all day tomorrow though. However! after 9 pm GMT +1 I can devote a good 5 hours to cracking this case wide open. I'm keeping up but I haven't got time to follow up on much of anything just yet. I think most of you know me well enough to know I'll be true to my word on this issue.

Just a few things from last night:

CCKeane posted:

Why am I not on this list?

I actually wasn't too tired to forget it. I just didn't include it since I felt you were a complete non-starter, I remembered getting maybe 3 other people to agree to you but no more. It'd of been very difficult to make that push, and it'd of split the vote up even more.

Atomic Soda posted:

also 100 years good to have you, did you by chance read my earlier long posts? i indicated then p heavily that i'd prefer to vote somber or taste today, and pointed out some of the dodgy interactions they'd had - they are jumping to each other's defense quite a lot.

not many people commented on this i think they were confused by the number of words.

I did read your long post. It was a a lot of stuff written about a pretty small matter and your conclusion wasn't all that grand. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I came out of the Somber v Pmom as a wholly town v town thing.

Having quickly scanned last night I want to look at Keane, KFC, and Grandicap. Keane's vote was gimmicky, but I've liked his D2 so far. The latter both made an argument based on kord's kill being an info dump, which while not a wrong point it's not the one to use to vote someone for execution. Still I'll look deeper into the whole issue tomorrow.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




dongsbot 9000 posted:

ive listened to i took a pill in ibiza like thirteen times today

That was literally my sister's summer vacation...

Somberbrero posted:

explain how tone conveys alignment in this context

"How 100yrs plays this game, Alex?"

I'm around and I won't get to bed without some solid opinions on crap, but I'm happy to dialogue while going over things.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Atomic Soda posted:


given birdstrikes post, why keane, kfc and gradicap, and not kash or somber? whats your view on birdstrikes claim?


I didn't read that as a claim. I wasn't aware that cop stuff with ecco was a 'thing' and I thought he was just laying down his best hunches. KFC, Grandi, and Keane were the ones whose interactions up to the point seemed the most noteworthy; I more or less mentioned why. Though it's certainly a lot more helpful to know that it's actually hard information than just people to pick through.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Birdstrike posted:

Max which of your scumbuds is on my list?

Do you actually think Max is scum? and where else would you look outside of your list anyway?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




CCKeane posted:

I'm pretty sure Bird is legit.

Question is he as legit as you?

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




The Lord of Hats posted:

He stays on Kord for a while, but after Kord steps up his engagement, switches to Keane, for being around but not contributing (bit of a meta read as well, here). It's a little weird how he says he'd be willing to switch to Taste if he can't convince people to go for Keane, and then doesn't really make a case on Keane--certainly not up to the standards of his Kord case. He then goes back to "Hey, I'd still be willing to vote Kord" before ultimately switching his vote back, although he expresses doubt that it would be able to hammer.

Overall... that last bit is kind of weird, but his reads seem genuine enough that I feel fairly comfortable calling him Town.

My case on Keane was based partly on meta ie irreverent Keane is scum, his non-engaging presence, plus his lame town read on AS. There wasn't much more than that, but between two players I feel as scum, I'd rather go for the one who is being less involved in the whole game.

After that I just got plum tired. I hate my vote going to waste, and I'd felt like poo poo if my vote were the one to hang-up an execution. I would've absolutely voted Taste to avoid that sort of situation even if he wasn't out-and-out scum in my eyes; nor was he in any ways town, definitely leaned more scummy than town at any rate. Not knowing about hammer was just my inability to keep track of who said what is all.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Atomic Soda posted:

kfc wasn't this waffly by a long stretch in the previous game i played with him when he was town.

Seriously. Outside of Birdstrike's recommendations he's the one I most want to go back through at this point.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




The Lord of Hats posted:

Keane made a dumb joke about not being able to vote unless someone revealed a secret. I responded with a dumb childhood story, because hey, it's a fun story. There wasn't any caveat of "...also I will let you choose who I vote for" there. He then turns the situation into one where I look responsible for whoever he ends up voting. At this point, I was feeling pretty strongly that Kord was the right lynch, and say as much--but I'm understandably nervous about what Keane's doing.

If I was scum, what's my motivation there at all? There isn't anything I possibly get out of it.

You could play it off just as you are as a gimmicky vote ploy that only an innocent townie would fall for.

That said I believe you because the above is far too convoluted to ever be the case. And that was a good story btw.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Outside of a proper in-depth read of their posts I would say good because Hats reminds me a lot of me and of the way I post. Also I'm the sort of chump that is influenced by avatars and theirs is nice enough that it makes me sympathetic. None of these are good reasons, but they haven't stood out enough to make me want to go in-depth like I'm doing with other players.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




So while I didn't like Bottles jokes, mainly as they felt like the dragged on too long, I did agree with on Keane. Then Kash shows up. The thing about Kash is that he's easily one of the most prolific players I can think of and he just types up a storm and in doing so overwhelms the field.

Kashuno posted:

Anybody voting kordansk last night is extremely suspicious. Idk why but Keane's vote really sticks out to me. I didn't think he was scum d1 but uggggh his vote bothers me really bad.

I mentioned earlier the idea of scum trying to control the narrative. The above is a good example of that. He sets the pace of the conversation and keeps it going at such a course that it's hard to catch your breath. Kash had a poor vote on Taste, but didn't really fight for it either, merely justifying it in the 11th hour as a way to avoid nailing the tracker. Considering Tastes flip, I can see him not being all that invested in any execution, as even a no-execution would've been just as good for him.

But that's the scummiest thing I can get out of it and I think you gotta squint to make those sort of things on his part seem that bad.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Somberbrero posted:

if pin doesn't have a poisoned battle axe then why won't they simply say so?

I'll admit I read through the whole thread fully once in good detail and my impressions of the somber/pmom spat came out of that reading. What I took out of that was the fact that Pmom was town considering how quickly the votes had come and the little argument against it. Because of this I didn't really explore much of my thoughts on Somber. Though as seen above it's hard to buy into his true "anger" when he's still referencing dongs joke claim.

Somberbrero posted:

if you were town your goal would be to make a case that convinces people so that you could lynch the person you think is scum.

also just want to make it clear that your posting callout was fake and supports a false narrative.

This also seemed out of place since somber's vote just felt OMGUS and he never seemed to actively trying to get people against Pmom. Who didn't Somber call scum on D1, where a lot of his interaction with people went from cordial to hostile if people stepped on his toes to friendly at the drop of pin?

The two most notable things is somber's tunneling on Pmom. I still found it pretty suspicious that Pmom was so close to being voted off, were Pmom scum that wouldn't have been so simple. Also somber was against either popular candidate last night. In Kord's case he states first that he finds kord awkward town and then would rather not vote a power role like that, fair points, but he then just straight up says that Taste is Town with no qualifiers. Considering what we now know it feels like he's trying to shy away from mis-guided executions.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




KFC is definitely behind the scenes on D1, showing up when appropriate but staying out of any hard calls, so as to avoid attention. I think I heard this called 'content lurking' because that's what it feels like. Posts for the sake of attending class. He spends a long time debating whether to vote Kord or Pmom and just kinda staying far away enough from actually putting down a vote. And yet he's persuaded to vote Kord after all this waffling. Note this is after my case so he doesn't have to come up with his own work.

KhyrosFinalCut posted:

this deadline push for taste is seriously hosed up. if we hit scum with it, it's purely loving chance, if it's town the day is basically wasted. Kord's been discussed/engaged and then you know we can at least have stuff to reread. can we not do the dumb thing? I'd really love it if we could not do the dumb thing.


This is the clincher. He just admits that he wants an info dump. Whether or not Kord is the tracker isn't the point. That indifference doesn't read town to me.

I will ##vote somberbrero of the 3, but I no qualms voting KFC.

I'm getting ready for bed. I've got maybe 20 minutes to field any last minute questions.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




:ghost: Sorry for ghosting on you guys last night, I had a great time otherwise. Guess I deserve this :ghost:

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Birdstrike posted:

Sorry for bussing you 100yrs

You're fine. Kinda tough not knowing who the others were, but that's ok. I prefer town vanilla overall so the game let me play a town game in my mind. I think I had to get NK, I feel pretty sure I could've avoided an execution.

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100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Well I had fun. Thanks for the shot Ecco. It did remind me that I have really very little time for these things nowadays... to be honest it was a little bit of a relief to die so early on. I was glad that it wasn't because I was being blatantly bad either.

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