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Lord_Magmar posted:The story is another subjective thing. From what I recall it's well played out at least, and an interesting take on the themes it's discussing. I don't recall it ever treating the player like an idiot either, it just uses a particular language and writing style. The story was the sticking point for me when I played the game, and that "particular language and writing style" was most of the reason why. This game serves as a good comparison: both use an archaic style to invoke the spirit of the time while being offputtingly creepy, but there's doing that while still maintaining a sense of narrative cohesion and sense of character, and then there's just throwing all of the dark weirdness you can into dialogue that could be switched around from scene to scene and still make the same amount of sense. Which means that I don't really get that one goons complaint that Madness Returns spells everything out for the gamer- I found it just the opposite, needlessly obtuse to the point that I wondered aloud if they even knew where they were going with things anymore. They also used the terrible old bugbear of sexual abuse as a plot point, which just made everything worse... I'm not saying that you can't tell a good story using that element, but it does take a lot of research and effort to actually incorporate that element in a manner that is respectful and not just darkness for darkness' sake. American McGee may not be the worlds best writer but at least all of the creepy bits of the game are things Charlie Dodgeson might have actually done, or are within the spirit of literary nonsense. Madness Returns is a very pretty game, though, if not quite as imaginative as was promised. If you really want your heart broken, you should see the artbook, which turned out to be a litany of awesome things they might have had, but ran out of time and resources to do... thus we get a pretty interesting dress-up and corridor simulator. But yes, I agree with the OP on the soundtrack of this game, subtly creepy while still being slow-paced and not too obtrusive. Some of Chris Vrenna's best work in my opinion.... seriously, just listen to this!
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Sep 20, 2016 17:55
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 21:48 |
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Hmmph. Well, I suppose it could have been handled a lot worse... But I still think the writing was more needlessly complicated and obscure than it needed to be, and had far too many plot threads that ended up going nowhere. And I say that as someone who liked some of the things the story tried to do. There was also not enough variety in terms of weapons or enemy types (leaned a bit too hard on the doll-with-black-eyes motif; yes, yes, common theme and all that, but there's having a consistent theme and then there's beating you repeatedly over the head with it. Which might explain the problem I have with pretty much the whole thing.)
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Sep 21, 2016 14:16
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As long as we're confessing stuff about ourselves, I stick my head in the door of ADTRW now and again, and I assure you, DreamShipWrecked: there are a lot of examples of anime/manga that are much, much worse and a lot more embarrassing to admitting to liking than Ouran High School Host Club, which is a genuinely good, high quality series. Generally speaking, when it comes to animated properties, it's not the stuff with a large fanbase of girls that's the problem... As for the Silent Hill artist you were speaking of, Mary Elizabeth McGlynn if your girl. I do love me some Yamaoka, but I do admit that I can get why people wouldn't want to listen to his stuff all the time, but I could listen to her all day. Room of Angel 
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Sep 21, 2016 16:47
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 yeah, I can sort of see what Tiggum is talking about with the chattiness. Talking whilst making repetitive jumps is one thing, but Alice met the Oracle while you guys jabbered on about Silent Hill or whatever. Could you please keep mum at least when the yellow textbox comes up at the bottom? Because those are the story bits, and I'm letting you know now before the other really good characters start showing up.
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Sep 22, 2016 17:24
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I've always kinda liked this area, found it strangely relaxing, despite all the weird spatial stuff it employs- like you I had a little bit of a problem getting around in some areas due to the twistiness. I also enjoyed the way chess was actually incorporated into thing here- not just the puzzles on how the pieces move, but the way the chess pieces fight: Knights hitting you with swords, Rooks charging forward and using their heads, Bishops having lasers shooting out of their staves, and Pawns... just kinda being there, I guess; it feels very natural somehow. The music mostly informs my mood, though; it manages to be creepy without being in your face about it, by either being loud or some other done to death nursery song like "Ring around the Rosie". Or maybe I just like My Grandfather's Clock, who knows.
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Sep 27, 2016 15:08
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Actually, I think the game still looks pretty good for being a 2000 era game; seeing it again is like seeing an old friend. I mean, it has color, you can tell what's going on, controls aren't too hard... maybe it is the nostalgia talking, but whenever I am reminded of this game I want to play it (unlike Madness Returns, which I only played through once, and that was enough). And while I like you always like it when a monster has greater meaning and symbolism- and that not a lot of that is found here, as Carroll wasn't really trying to be symbolic of much of anything with his Alice stories- I don't really know what greater symbolism would do for this game. Sometimes a fish who spits lava is just a fish who spits lava, and that's all right.
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Sep 29, 2016 17:24
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I believe that what the Automatons are shooting at you are their actual fists, which detach and are replaceable because of course they are. And the ghost-things are called...Phantasmagoria? I think? It was around here when I was playing for the first time that I concluded that I really, really like the soundtrack of this game. I'd already heard my favorite track back in the school, and my second favorite track is still a ways off yet (the one Commissar mega posted a little while ago), but the track in both this level and the one after easily take third and fourth. They're just so... schizophrenic.
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Sep 30, 2016 18:28
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Accordion Man posted:The Mad Hatter has also became the personification of the Asylum warden as well. It's not really brought up in the game itself but its brought up in the manual that came with the game, which had a section dedicated to having an in-universe journal of Dr. Wilson, Alice's doctor at the asylum. The Tweedles also became personfications of the Warden's lovely nephews that would always torment Alice. Man, that was such a neat little book; it was sort of a mini novel that came in the game box, as was the wont of 2000s era games*, and it offered some real, chilling insight into the way Alice lived and dealt (or rather didn't deal) with her issues in the asylum; had some really great drawings. While it isn't essential for understanding the story or anything, it offers some great parallels to the things we've seen already or are going to see, but given how games are sold now, I don't know how it could be shared here save through  ; my own copy is long gone somewhere, lost between houses. The actual stuff on how to play the game came on a little card, as I recall.*Well, I say "wont", but the only other game I know of that did a similar thing was Clive Barker's Undying, that other severely underrated game made in 2000 that you probably found in a bargain bin somewhere. It took the form of a diary of the elder Covenant child, providing a description of the family and how creepy and off-putting they were even before the whole "getting cursed and becoming undead monstrosities" thing.
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Oct 4, 2016 13:39
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Oh yeah, that right there is the good poo poo, when you meet Jabberwocky for the first time. His voice is just so good, as mean and nasty as you would imagine the personification of survivors guilt to be. A really cool thing about his appearance- it's obviously it's own thing, but you can clearly see influences to the original illustration by John Tenniel, which was the first visualization of the Jabberwocky and has pretty well defined every image of it since. And humpty Dumpty, as I recall, was actually in Through The Looking Glass too. Funny, somehow I remember a guide that told me I had to jump on top of him in order to get the Blunderbuss, which somehow makes the brick appear, but that could be something dreamed or whatever.
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Oct 6, 2016 17:26
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| # ¿ Apr 19, 2024 21:48 |
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I dunno, I always kinda enjoyed Machinations, especially after the relative monotony and confusion of the mazes; it has my favorite track playing throughout and the fact they made the falls non-lethal just allowed me top focus on the puzzles, and I enjoyed the breather from enemies. I suppose the 'puzzle', such as it is, isn't that impressive looking back, but I found it strangely meditative to match my pace to the cogwork around me... maybe it's because I did play it when it came out (or maybe I'm just weird), but it never bothered me so much. In fact, I don't remember being bothered by anything the game threw at me that much; there were some enemies that were trying and annoying to deal with (like the ladybugs for example, or those loving snarks), but on the whole, the game never tipped that far into the frustration part on the fun-to-frustration ratio of game theory. I guess that means I find American McGee to be a competent level designer, all things considered.
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Oct 28, 2016 14:07
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