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Lottery of Babylon posted:
But surely the lands don't need "I'm Vault 108" as long as there's at least two of them. If I have two wastelands that have been turned into the vault, wouldn't they continue to turn each other into vault 108 because they both have the ability to do so?
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Oct 28, 2016 06:50
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Mystic Mongol posted:But surely the lands don't need "I'm Vault 108" as long as there's at least two of them. If I have two wastelands that have been turned into the vault, wouldn't they continue to turn each other into vault 108 because they both have the ability to do so? When you have multiple things to look at in the same layer, you go through them in timestamp order. This can be altered by dependency (rule 613.7), but there is no possible order in which you can apply the copy effects to make them vaults, because whichever effect you try to apply first doesn't exist (since nothing came before it to make its source a vault to make that effect exist), which means that whichever effect you apply second also doesn't exist, and so on. It's the same as in the single land case; there's nothing special about the move from one land to two here. Basically, when the original vault does away, the rules don't check if the other lands remain vaults and fall back to being wastelands. Instead, the rules kinda forget the original vault was there in the the first place, and just look at the current board, see nothing that says the wastelands aren't wastelands, and concludes that the wastelands are wastelands. Using a simpler case as illustration: If a static ability is giving a bear +1/+1, the rules don't remember that the bear is effectively 3/3 and has been for several turns now. Instead, every single time the game state is checked the rules initially see a 2/2 bear and then, when the appropriate sublayer is reached, apply the effect bumping it up to 3/3. If something granting +1/+1 to a bear goes away, the rules don't look at the 3/3 bear and go "Hang on, this 3/3 needs to fall off"; the rules just see a 2/2 bear and that's the end of the story. In the bear situation, of course, the distinction is irrelevant, but that's how the game rules work under the hood, and it is relevant for the vault question. Of course, all of this requires way more delving into the layers rules than even the infamous Opalescence/Humility combo. Perhaps there's a reason that static "is a copy of"/"are copies of" abilities have never actually been printed ever. Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Oct 28, 2016 |
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Oct 28, 2016 07:39
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Skyl3lazer posted:Yeah that is a good point, you can just +infinity him as written. You can just add "If you do" e: nevermind, I see the problem. Pretty sure that would be broken anyway
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Oct 28, 2016 10:15
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Lottery of Babylon posted:It's actually the opposite of Essence of the Wild. Essence of the Wild makes the other creature a copy of itself as it enters the battlefield; once that's done, that creature is a copy of Essence of the Wild forever even if Essence of the Wild goes away, not because its own text is making it a copy of Essence of the Wild but because Essence of the Wild's effect doesn't end; if Essence of the Wild were turning the other creatures into 2/2 cats instead of into copies of itself, they'd still be 2/2 cats after Essence of the Wild died. It's like how a creature turned into an artifact by Memnarch will remain an artifact even after Memnarch dies. The rulings for Essence of the Wild don't spell this out, but the rulings for Infinite Reflection, which has the same wording, do. 
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Oct 28, 2016 21:28
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There's a reason they try to design around this stuff.
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Oct 28, 2016 21:33
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  Overload was just in UR, but I think that all colours can enjoy the flexibility. Black gets some classic effect, and Green still hates fliers.
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Oct 29, 2016 17:32
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I've always felt that Phoenixes in Red are one of the most blatant Color Pie Breaks that WoTC still prints. Besides the fact that they are literal birds of fire, nothing about them is Red. They have flying, which Red is supposed to be second worst at, and Reincarnation, which red is never supposed to get. Because of that, I think phoenixes should either be white or a gold only tribe. Phoenixes are often depicted in fantasy as being selfless, so because of that, I've designed a white phoenix.  EDIT: Designed a few more  
ChewyLSB fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Oct 30, 2016 |
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Oct 30, 2016 21:16
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I think Hellbent could work in White as an incentive to not dump your hand on the battlefield, showing strategic restraint. But the opposite could be true too, shoring up White's weakness by rewarding an empty hand. 
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Oct 30, 2016 22:18
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Shifting first strike, a very combat oriented keyword, into a blue design by making it not as combat oriented.
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Oct 31, 2016 00:38
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ChewyLSB posted:I've always felt that Phoenixes in Red are one of the most blatant Color Pie Breaks that WoTC still prints. Creatures that repeatedly get recurred from the graveyard feel very black to me: 
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Oct 31, 2016 00:52
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One more, this time a tutor in White.
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Oct 31, 2016 05:42
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Honorable Mentions Torchlighter's Vindictive Reversal: We've seen red pop up in tempo decks like Twin, and backfooting the opponent on time instead of on cards or power feels like a good fit for red. Giving red a variant on Remand seems like an entirely reasonable colorshift. Skyl3lazer's Elspeth Furysworn: Colorshifting planeswalkers is a neat idea, and while not all of the ones you made clicked with me (swapping power and toughness feels neither particularly black nor particularly Chandra-ish), this straightforward twist on Elspeth, Sun's Champion is very solid and feels like a natural combination of Elspeth and red. (I also liked 0: Proliferate.) Poison Mushroom's Natural Beauty: Green Blood Moon. Simple but effective; this effect fits green's "everything should be simple and natural" perfectly in a way that it never really fit with red. Irony Be My Shield's Cruel Teachings: I'd like it better if the card still did something without Fateful Hour, but reflavoring Fateful Hour from "we're on our last legs, so this is our most desperate moment" to "we're so desperate we decided to cut ourselves down to our last legs" is really cool and clever. The card itself is very interesting on its own -- playable in eternal formats, but probably wouldn't break them. AJ_Impy's Ghost Martyr: This makes sense as a white use of Undying and I like what you're going for here, but this card feels too powerful and too complex. It's virtually immune to spot removal, and protects all of your other creatures (but not your opponent's creatures) against most wraths, and it all comes wrapped up in a reasonable flying body with four lines of text; it's just doing a little too much and leaving your opponent with not quite enough room to answer. black potus's Spring Man: I wasn't expecting Blue First Strike, but using it to apply spell effects instead of to kill the creature is super clever and fits with what we've seen blue do before. Poison Mushroom's colorshifted countermagic: Honestly, why don't other colors get counterspells? Giving blue all the general-purpose counterspells makes sense, but at least some of the other colors should be able to get some niche variants; I can't think of any mechanic that's as tightly constrainted to a single color as countermagic is to blue. Your green and white entries seem especially reasonable (red seemed rather weak, black rather strong) and I'd love to see them in the actual game. Third Place Mystic Mongol's Black Deck Wins:  This is really nicely put together. I don't think Curse needed to sacrifice itself at EOT just to be closer to Shock, since it has the extra restriction of being sorcery-speed, but the addition of lifegain to make Fireblast fit black's vamp slice of the pie is really cool. But more importantly than any individual card here, I really like how well you've captured the feel of the deck while changing the color; it gives a great picture of how in another world black could not only crib some reddish effects but also step into red's shoes in the meta as a whole. Very cool. Second Place Serperoth's Colorshifted Overload: Overload strikes me as a mechanic that, like Rebound (or Kicker or Entwine or Escalate or...), could easily be printed in all five colors without even bending the color pie. I like these entries not only for taking advantage of that design space but also for making Overloading a spell not a strict upgrade: the black one for obvious reasons, but the green one hits your own fliers too, which suits green's extreme flying-hatred. (If anything, it seems like a big flavor miss in RTR that the Izzet overload spells are specifically written not to backfire.) First Place Glidergun's In Memoriam:  I love this card so much. White has had reanimation effects before (like Rally the Ancestors or Seance), but unlike black they've always been flavored as the living honoring and remembering those who came before them, and that comes across very strongly in this design. Requiring two creatures tapped instead of just one helps enhance the card's strong yet subtle undercurrent of community. Restricting it on both ends to white creatures has the same effect, but also makes sure you don't end up with a bunch of zombies making more zombies, and lets black keep the "bring back massive demon monsters" side of reanimation. Everything about this card clicks, I never expected Unearth to fit well in white but you pulled this off perfectly. Congratulations Glidergun! Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 06:40 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 06:37
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Mystic Mongol's Black Deck Wins: Actually I had the enchantment go away at end of turn because of the enchant player side. I figured it would be a little strong with all the black enchantment matters effects floating around--when cast on a creature there's almost no situation where you'd play it without having that creature die that turn and fall into the graveyard, but I didn't want a little pile of curses building up on a player, complicating the battlefield and not doing anything. It is an extra line of rules on what should be a common rarity damage spell, though, so it'd probably be better off without the self sacrifice. e: Displacement Wave, Curse Curse Curse Curse seems like a sick control finisher on a simplified Curse. e2: Also I didn't really want to make Gary, Merchant of Asphodel even better. Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 07:22
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I am kinda sad I didn't get a card in for this contest, but I was already trying to crunch my brain about a color swapped set already, and had zero ideas So kudos to you all! Way better than anything I could have come up with.
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Oct 31, 2016 07:26
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I was thinking about submitting a 'tap, remove x counters, prevent x damage' white undying card to get around some of the problems, but definitely 'cool idea, too many rules considerations' territory.
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Oct 31, 2016 08:27
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Lottery of Babylon posted:Second Place That was pretty much my own reasoning, Overload is a very nice, clean mechanic that has no reason to be restricted. And outside of monocoloured you can play even more (Flesh to Dust + Wrath of God being the easiest example). It always felt very Kicker-ish in the sense that you pay more to expand an effect, just in a more specific manner than Kicker's, but Kicker is an additional cost, rather than an alternative cost, so it can't play with certain stuff, and Overload can't play with others (Flashback and Overload don't combo, for example) And, for the record, it feels really good to be back on this, even if it took me that long to throw some cards in. Looking forward to more 
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Oct 31, 2016 13:35
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 Lord of the Lordless Your assignment is to choose a creature type that hasn't had a lord yet, and make one for it.    The archetypal lord, of course, is a 3 mana 2/2 that gives creatures of a certain type +1/+1 and an appropriate second effect.    Don't feel too closely tied to those conditions. "Lord" is kind of a fuzzy classification, and as long as you're buffing all of those creatures somehow it'll probably count. BORDERLINE:    That said, you can go too far. I'll try to err on the side of leniency, but anything sufficiently unLordly will have a harder time winning. JUDGEMENT CRITERIA:
Entries will be closed and judgement will be conducted on Monday, November 7. Glidergun fucked around with this message at 19:57 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 17:13
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 Big, iconic tribe, never had a lord. How's this? If the terms seem a little unfair, you don't have to sign... AJ_Impy fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Oct 31, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 18:19
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We've had exactly one Ogre lord, and it's very marginal, and kind of out of color. (More than half of all ogres are red.) Another problem is that they're kind of all over the place mechanically, aren't they? All that's really consistent is that they're big and like to break things. Let's see what we can do with that. 
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Oct 31, 2016 18:54
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Wurms are big (so they can fight and survive to punch through) and often have trample. Big daddy wurm is happiest when his friends are trampling and fighting. Provisional flavor text: "Grrraahhhhh" —Wurm expression meaning "When I hear that hotline bling, it can only mean one thing" black potus fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Oct 31, 2016 19:41
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 Perhaps a touch simple but I found it pretty thematic for trying to dig knowledgeable warriors out of their home turf. There are scouts in all colors and several of them enable attacking with the bonus or expanding the bonus by getting more lands into play.
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Oct 31, 2016 22:06
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Do you know what would finally make sliver decks playable?! If they included a bunch of non-slivers!
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Nov 1, 2016 00:32
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Mystic Mongol posted:If they included a bunch of non-slivers! Now I'm tempted to make a "Sliver assimilators/etc as Zerg" thing.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:51
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Behind every great warrior stands an army of bureaucrats.
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Nov 1, 2016 00:57
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Mystic Mongol posted:Do you know what would finally make sliver decks playable?! This is a very interesting idea... but I think it is hard to claim that slivers, of all creature types, have never had a lord. It's like making a red enchantment with "Enchanted player loses the game whenever they have 3 or less life" and saying you have staked out bold new space in the color pie.
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Nov 1, 2016 01:47
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At long last, someone who can help all Shapeshifters unlock their true potential. I struggled with the wording of the last ability, since cards with similar effects like Infinite Reflections are written strangely, switching from plural ("other creatures") to singular ("a copy") halfway through the sentence. It's legendary because I didn't want the best use to just be "keep copying this guy to stack +1/+1 bonuses", which would be boring. Luckily, drawing too many copies of this particular legend is no problem since you can play the others as copies of something else. Designed for an environment like Lorwyn where there are a fair number of Shapeshifters that aren't already clones anyhow. Yes, it erases the other Shapeshifters' identities, but isn't that the true purpose of any Shapeshifter? (Edited to give +1/+1 to "Shapeshifter creatures", not "Shapeshifters".) Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 02:19
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Doppelgangleader amuses me.
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Nov 1, 2016 02:41
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Poison Mushroom posted:We've had exactly one Ogre lord, and it's very marginal, and kind of out of color. (More than half of all ogres are red.) Another problem is that they're kind of all over the place mechanically, aren't they? All that's really consistent is that they're big and like to break things. It really should be "nonenchantment, nonland", though.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:16
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Mystic Mongol posted:Do you know what would finally make sliver decks playable?! Poison Mushroom posted:That overwrites, if I'm reading it right? That is neat as hell. As written, it overwrites, instead of adding, so it doesn't work (they become Slivers, but not ChosenType, so they no longer become Slivers etc) VV: Layers can gently caress off  But yeah I think you're right.
Serperoth fucked around with this message at 15:40 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 15:23
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Serperoth posted:As written, it overwrites, instead of adding, so it doesn't work (they become Slivers, but not ChosenType, so they no longer become Slivers etc) If I recall correctly, it actually does work, because layers. Same reason why artifacts don't continually flicker between noncreature and creature when March of the Machines is on the table.
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Nov 1, 2016 15:26
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They've been around since the beginning of magic. Over a hundred of them have been printed. And yet they've never had a lord. The obvious direction to go here would be to make the Walls able to attack and/or able to deal damage with their toughness instead of their power. Which would make the Walls very good at doing the sort of things Walls typically don't do, but since we've seen those effects before, I decided it would be more interesting to make the Walls better at doing what they already do: blocking stuff. They're a bit sturdier than before, the extra power means your opponent really doesn't want to be blocked by them, and if you have enough Walls, you can use some to make your opponent give you something to block. (Okay, they kinda had a lord once, but it's an enchantment and it involves banding and you've never heard of it so who cares.) Irony Be My Shield posted:Behind every great warrior stands an army of bureaucrats. I love this card, it's so cool.
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Nov 1, 2016 16:25
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Sliver Assimilator is just a bad muscle sliver if it's used as a sliver lord. It does, however, spread sliver bonuses onto other creature types, like yaks or rogues. A fun idea but honestly a pretty bad card. I guess you could set it to angel or dragon or something and run some bombs in an otherwise normal sliver deck? Avacyn the Pointy Noised will save the Sliver People. And it goes in the Red/White Vent Sentinel draft deck. Inform the conspiracy team! Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 16:26
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e: Whups, forgot to limit the bonuses to vehicles YOU control.
Mystic Mongol fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Nov 1, 2016 |
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Nov 1, 2016 17:01
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 e: buffing a little cuz why not. e2: Following AJ's suggestion to add Human Fuzzy Mammal fucked around with this message at 02:34 on Nov 3, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 07:47
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Perfect. I was trying to think of lord where making gold tokens made sense. Bravo.
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Nov 2, 2016 07:54
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Looks human to me, otherwise that's beautiful in form and function.
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Nov 2, 2016 09:31
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 He had to be around before the Vanishing, right? There was discussion on if that first ability would work so the 'fix' for that would be 
Skyl3lazer fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Nov 2, 2016 |
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Nov 2, 2016 20:51
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Bear tribal has been a secret fantasy of mine for years. 
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Nov 2, 2016 21:30
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I made a bearlord too, but went in a different direction with it: I guess it's secretly a lord for Hydras and other creatures built out of +1/+1 counters too.
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Nov 2, 2016 21:55
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Lottery of Babylon posted:I made a bearlord too, but went in a different direction with it: Why is the Alpha bear the smallest bear? Flavor rating 2/10
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Nov 2, 2016 22:08
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