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Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Hello and Welcome to the SomethingAwful.com Ask/Tell Martial Arts thread. This thread is for people curious about starting a martial art, as well as general MA discussion

Why Should I, a Goon, enroll in a martial art?

r.y.f.s.o. posted:

I was a bit of a tubbo, 6'0" and 215, but I was definitely lacking in anything resembling muscle from years of lifting nothing heavier than a notebook and my fingers to type on it. I got sick of feeling like a wet noodle constantly and chose BJJ / Muay Thai in the hope it would beat the fear and fat out of me, and it did.

Fontoyn posted:

Also, pump yourself up. poo poo like: "this motherfucker can't do poo poo to my butt" relaxes and psyches me up.

You don't have to be strong or fast or tough to start a martial art. Actually, starting one will make you stronger faster and tougher than you probably thought possible. Read this OP, read the thread and get going!

I am new to martial arts, what should I do?

First, read this quote on Martial Arts for Self Defense:

Mechafunkzilla posted:

There is no martial art where the basics can be "grasped decently" in a short amount of time such that it would actually help you. It's all about internalizing the movements until they become second nature, tons of repetition, and lots and lots of sparring. The only way you can ever really become proficient at any concept or technique is to use it in sparring against a resisting opponent. That's why many martial arts don't work. Anything that claims to teach you actually useful self-defense skills in a few days or weeks and isn't called "how to buy running shoes that fit" is bullshit. Even if the techniques are sound, showing them to people who won't practice them for a few months is just setting them up to get stabbed to death when they try to fight someone instead of run away.

Second:
Knowing how to fight and knowing self-defense are not the same thing. They are in fact, often completely opposite goals: fighting is about winning, self-defense about surviving.

The number 1 self-defense technique is: don't get into bad situations.

quote:

My friend got jumped by three people outside a strip club at 3 am. He just got a few bruises but he asked what I would have done, as a martial artist. I told him: I wouldn't hang out in a strip club parking lot at 3 am!

This is a nice article on realistic self defense:
https://www.samharris.org/blog/item...-about-violence

Third

Dont Wait to Start! Gyms will train anyone that can shuffle through their door, they won't judge or turn you away. There are a lot of stone cold bad asses that started super out of shape. You don't need to workout 6 weeks or do anything to prepare, just show up and do what you can as much as you can!

How do I select a Martial Art and Gym/Dojo/Academy?

You should sample as many different styles and places as feasible. Most gyms have a free trial day at minimum, and are always happy to show around new people. Find a place where you feel comfortable and where the environment is supportive and safety minded.

Remember, you will be going to and from this place a lot, often after or before your real job or life focus. Travel logistics are non-trivial. Pick a place you will actually attend over a more prestigious gym that is far away.

What to Avoid
There are some things you really just want to avoid, no matter what you're looking for in a style. Now, please remember these are not hard/fast rules. You might find reputable gyms with long term contracts. And maybe, just maybe you do have a 6th degree master black belt down the block.

1) No free introductory lesson or "try before you buy option". Any legitimate school should be perfectly happy to have someone drop by and check out the atmosphere, as well as offer some form of introductory class.


2) high pressure sales. if you feel like you're talking to a used car salesman, look for the door.

3) Ridiculous rankings: Yes you might be lucky enough to live close to a 7th dan, but if google does not turn up 5 pages featuring their name, it's probably bogus. Anyone claiming to have multiple high level black belts or any level of black belt over 3 or 4 should merit close scrutiny. Remember, anyone can get a black belt http://www.amazon.com/Shihan-Karate...04439407&sr=8-9

4) Insane claims: Spirit Magic Chi bombs, one touch KO power, death touches, bullet dodging. There is a reason you don't see anyone, ever, doing these things outside of their carefully constructed environment/scenario. They are a fantasy.

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Novum
May 26, 2012

That's how we roll

There have been recorded chi bombs in athletic competition. Rothwell v Vera is an example

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

by FactsAreUseless


I like that this OP gets right down to the stuff that got asked billions of times in the last thread and is deserving of 5 stars, although perhaps it would've been more courageous to take a stand on throwing guys into the scorers table.

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Shape Shift With Me


I started taking martial arts thanks to the previous thread, and I can say that it's a super fun hobby that will make you twice as obnoxious to all your normal people friends who don't think about otoshi garis and axe kicks all day.

Wangsbig
May 27, 2007



I don't wear regular mouth guards when rolling because they make breathing hard and I don't like taking them out of my gooey mouth to talk. Are Sisu mouthguards goon approved for BJJ & are they good enough for getting punched in the face? thanks

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



I got the lighter Sisu for judo on the thread's recommendation. Never gotten a chance to test it, though, since I haven't been to judo after busting my ankle in the spring.

ElMaligno
Dec 31, 2004

Be Gay!
Do Crime!


They seem good, but any mouthguard is better than none especially when you are rolling.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

by FactsAreUseless


Wangsbig posted:

I don't wear regular mouth guards when rolling because they make breathing hard and I don't like taking them out of my gooey mouth to talk. Are Sisu mouthguards goon approved for BJJ & are they good enough for getting punched in the face? thanks

I personally use a custom, but we've got folks that use them for striking and swear by them.

General Emergency
Apr 2, 2009

Can we talk?

Siivola posted:

I got the lighter Sisu for judo on the thread's recommendation. Never gotten a chance to test it, though, since I haven't been to judo after busting my ankle in the spring.

You could always wear it under your fencing mask for the thrill of it...

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



I've got a HEMA tournament coming up in November, I'll probably wear it there just in case.

Edit: Also there's a local HEMA group that does medieval wrestling, I might end up hanging out with them a bit since they don't charge training fees or anything.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Kekekela posted:

I like that this OP gets right down to the stuff that got asked billions of times in the last thread and is deserving of 5 stars, although perhaps it would've been more courageous to take a stand on throwing guys into the scorers table.

I.a. should the throw maintain an amplitude such that uke's body lands a top the table an ippon shall be granted and the match declared over.

I.b. should the throw fail to attain said amplitude Tori will be declared "a school yard bitch" and the match shall be declared nolo contendere.

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



I ran into some chest-punching karate tournament yesterday:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p4LjBS6Hjdo

So of course I started to look into it because it looks interesting (if a bit goofy) and... There's at least three competing organizations for Kyokushin, as well as a bunch of spinoff styles? How do people compete in this mess?

Verisimilidude
Dec 20, 2006

Strike quick and hurry at him,
not caring to hit or miss.
So that you dishonor him before the judges





HEMA is cool because you get to hit people with swords and spend way too much money on hand protection without feeling guilty at all.

Example:


Edit: also if you're reasonably fit you'll already be at an advantage over the majority of fencers.

Grandmaster.flv
Jun 24, 2011


lots of hemaphiliacs itt

IronDoge
Nov 6, 2008



I have a local Tiger Schulmann's that I see an acquaintance of mine post pictures of and they seem to be having fun and actually attending competitions and such. Any opinions on the chain in general? They offer an free intro class so I suppose there's no harm in giving it a shot.

Slaapaav
Mar 3, 2006


but but.. the loving name is the most mcdojo name of all time.

2DCAT
Jun 24, 2015

cyberdead.





Gravy Boat 2k

Xguard86 posted:

Hello and Welcome to the SomethingAwful.com Ask/Tell Martial Arts thread. This thread is for people curious about starting a martial art, as well as general MA discussion

Why Should I, a Goon, enroll in a martial art?


modern flow makes goku gi... should basically be reason #1 for any goon to do bjj

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man



Pillbug

Plus it's fun to use your post count as evidence that you can beat people up on the internet.


02-6611-0142-1
Sep 30, 2004



IronDoge posted:

I have a local Tiger Schulmann's that I see an acquaintance of mine post pictures of and they seem to be having fun and actually attending competitions and such. Any opinions on the chain in general? They offer an free intro class so I suppose there's no harm in giving it a shot.

There's very little detail on the website about what they actually teach, which is kinda shady. The rashguards say "TSMMA" but it looks like they're mostly doing karate? You'd usually expect a breakdown of classes, which arts are taught when, who the teachers are and a breakdown of their qualifications and competition records.

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


02-6611-0142-1 posted:

There's very little detail on the website about what they actually teach, which is kinda shady. The rashguards say "TSMMA" but it looks like they're mostly doing karate? You'd usually expect a breakdown of classes, which arts are taught when, who the teachers are and a breakdown of their qualifications and competition records.

There are legit pro fighters based out of Tiger Schulmann's here in NYC. Like any gym it's going to depend on who the instructors there are, but it's not a McDojo in the traditional sense, despite making a lot of their money teaching longpants kickboxing to children.

Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Sep 14, 2016

Defenestrategy
Oct 24, 2010

Worst decision I ever made.


Mechafunkzilla posted:

There are legit pro fighters based out of Tiger Schulmann's here in NYC. Like any gym it's going to depend on who the instructors there are, but it's not a McDojo in the traditional sense, despite making a lot of their money teaching longpants kickboxing to children.

So it's legit coaches, teaching legit stuff; but stealing everything else that makes McDojos insufferable?

fatherdog
Feb 16, 2005

by Lowtax


There's one central location where all the TSK fighters train and have fighter classes, and the rest of the schools are basic grappling and cardio kickboxing, for the most part. You could definitely do worse, but if you're in the geographical location of the majority of TSK schools you could easily do better.

Bangkero
Dec 28, 2005

I baptize thee
not in the name of the father
but in the name of the devil.


How about some beginner advice in the OP?

Fourth: Beginner Advice

Congrats, you've chosen your martial art and you've made it to your first class. Here's some beginner advice to maximize your enjoyment:

* Don't be an rear end in a top hat. Show respect for your instructors and fellow students. Follow gym/dojo rules. Show up to class on time. Check your ego at the door. Pay attention when instruction is being given.

* Leave the teaching to the instructor and higher ranked students. Troubleshooting with your training partner is fine, but you're new so check with the instructor to ensure you're not complicating a simple problem.

* Use the proper protective equipment. Especially when sparring or using weapons. Ask your instructor what you need. A fitted mouthguard is a good start.

* Always practice personal hygiene. Sparring and doing drills with unhygienic people sucks. Take a shower after class as soon as possible. Launder your uniform. Keep your finger and toe nails trimmed short. Cover open wounds.

* Don't train while you're sick or have a skin infection (e.g. ringworm). Do yourself and your training partners a favour and watch Netflix instead. See the first bullet.

* Give yourself time to recover when you're injured. Your +35 year old self will thank you.

fatherdog posted:

A big part of your continuing training is going to be figuring out the difference between hurt and injured. Everyone trains hurt. Try not to train injured.

* Have fun! Martial arts is a life long hobby. If you're not enjoying yourself or don't like the vibe of your current gym/dojo but still want to learn the martial art, go and try another gym/dojo.

* Seriously, don't be an rear end in a top hat. That's what SA is for.

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008



Dinosaur Gum

I'm looking at getting into some kind of martial art, and I initially thought Krav Maga sounded cool based on basically no information. Having read this thread, I've decided that's not a great idea and started looking into some of the ones that were under the 'practical' section of the previous OP. I did Shotokan Karate when I was 10 or so, but never got on with how 'theoretical' it all seemed.

I've looked into a few places that do Judo and BJJ around me (and to a lesser extent Kickboxing/Muay Thai but I'm a pussy and might not enjoy being hit in the face), and I'm undecided so I'm gonna give some places a try. I think I'd like to train in something that had a mixture of striking and grappling as opposed to focusing entirely on one, but by the look of it that's pretty much just an MMA thing?

Still, I'm excited!

Mechafunkzilla
Sep 11, 2006

If you want a vision of the future...


Surprise T Rex posted:

I'm looking at getting into some kind of martial art, and I initially thought Krav Maga sounded cool based on basically no information. Having read this thread, I've decided that's not a great idea and started looking into some of the ones that were under the 'practical' section of the previous OP. I did Shotokan Karate when I was 10 or so, but never got on with how 'theoretical' it all seemed.

I've looked into a few places that do Judo and BJJ around me (and to a lesser extent Kickboxing/Muay Thai but I'm a pussy and might not enjoy being hit in the face), and I'm undecided so I'm gonna give some places a try. I think I'd like to train in something that had a mixture of striking and grappling as opposed to focusing entirely on one, but by the look of it that's pretty much just an MMA thing?

Still, I'm excited!

There are combat sports other than MMA which incorporate striking and grappling, like sanshou and combat sambo. But yeah, if you're interested in both you're much more likely to just find an MMA gym that has kickboxing and grappling instruction.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



^^^^ dangit, my post got rejected by SA until just now.

KildarX posted:

So it's legit coaches, teaching legit stuff; but stealing everything else that makes McDojos insufferable?

Are we talking about Tiger Shulman's or Gracie Barra?

Surprise T Rex posted:

I've looked into a few places that do Judo and BJJ around me (and to a lesser extent Kickboxing/Muay Thai but I'm a pussy and might not enjoy being hit in the face), and I'm undecided so I'm gonna give some places a try. I think I'd like to train in something that had a mixture of striking and grappling as opposed to focusing entirely on one, but by the look of it that's pretty much just an MMA thing?

There's some pre-MMA disciplines that mix striking and grappling, but they're not as popular as gyms that train you directly for modern sport MMA rulesets and competition.
By pre-, I mean that their rulesets were devised and in use before the UFC and MMA competition really took off. I don't know that there's anything wrong with going with MMA -- just make sure you're getting good instruction.

Any such ruleset that allows striking will have you getting hit in the face some of the time in sparring, though. Over time, you can try to develop a very grappling oriented game, but that's over years of sparring and training.
At least getting hit is a strong incentive to figure out ways to get hit less frequently.

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008



Dinosaur Gum

kimbo305 posted:

I don't know that there's anything wrong with going with MMA -- just make sure you're getting good instruction.

Yeah, I wanted to avoid picking a specific MMA class because it's 'trendy' and I assume that like Krav, it's basically gonna be a shitshow of guys teaching any old poo poo.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

by FactsAreUseless


KildarX posted:

So it's legit coaches, teaching legit stuff; but stealing everything else that makes McDojos insufferable?

This is an unholy marriage you see more and more of these days in BJJ as well.

Xguard86
Nov 22, 2004

"You don't understand his pain. Everywhere he goes he sees women working, wearing pants, speaking in gatherings, voting. Surely they will burn in the white hot flames of Hell"

Kekekela posted:

This is an unholy marriage you see more and more of these days in BJJ as well.

It's hard to blame people when you're trying to run a profitable business and those tactics are proven successful. While being a good teacher and nothing else generally leads to failure.

Kekekela
Oct 28, 2004

by FactsAreUseless


Xguard86 posted:

It's hard to blame people when you're trying to run a profitable business and those tactics are proven successful. While being a good teacher and nothing else generally leads to failure.

Yeah, I do hope a happy medium between blackbelt-with-no-business-sense and full-on-TLI-bullshit emerges as some kind of standard though.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man



Pillbug

Surprise T Rex posted:

Yeah, I wanted to avoid picking a specific MMA class because it's 'trendy' and I assume that like Krav, it's basically gonna be a shitshow of guys teaching any old poo poo.

Depends on the gym. You can go into one and get something that is like "KARATE NINJITSU KRAV MAGA MMA" on the sign, but you can get another where there are pro fighters teaching the class. Just research the gym a bit.

And if you give your general location there may be people in this thread who will happily advise.

Surprise T Rex
Apr 9, 2008



Dinosaur Gum

I should probably clarify that being afraid of being hit was (mostly ) a joke, I'm gonna give some striking styles a go along with some grappling ones.

CommonShore posted:

And if you give your general location there may be people in this thread who will happily advise.

I'm in Nottingham in the UK, so If anyone has recommendations for Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai or Kickboxing around here, that'd be great. There's one MMA place here that does both BJJ and Muay Thai classes which could be interesting. I'm leaning quite heavily toward Judo from looking into things online, but a lot of the Judo schools nearby seem to be smaller less polished outfits run in a local youth club rather than a dedicated location.

I'm planning to just check out a fair few places for a bunch of different styles over the next couple of weeks and see what I enjoy most.

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

I'm intrigued by learning some martial arts now that I've started losing weight and am a bit more healthy. One thing I'm worried about is that I have a pretty bad knee from being hit by a car when I was a teenager. Are there any specific martial arts I should avoid if my knee isn't particularly great?

Smoking Crow
Feb 13, 2012

*laughs at u*


what's good muay thai/kickbox in central ohio

Neon Belly
Feb 12, 2008

I need something stronger.


How bad is a pretty bad? Can you put weight on it?

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

Neon Belly posted:

How bad is a pretty bad? Can you put weight on it?

I mean yeah, I can put weight on it and walk pretty normally. I've done a lot of PT and strength training for it over the last year, so I do work out and do squats/leg press and I'm decently okay but it's definitely not as stable as the other one. If I'm doing a leg press for example it can take about 70% the load the other one can

Siivola
Dec 23, 2012



Judo can be pretty rough on the knees.

If you don't mind not being sporty, tai chi might actually help you rehab the knee.

Siivola fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Sep 14, 2016

ICHIBAHN
Feb 21, 2007


Bjj

Kashuno
Oct 9, 2012

Where the hell is my SWORD?


Grimey Drawer

Siivola posted:

Judo can be pretty rough on the knees.

If you don't mind not being sporty, tai chi might actually help you rehab the knee.

I've done tai chi chuan for a while and it has definitely helped!

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KingColliwog
May 15, 2003

Let's go droogs

Kashuno posted:

I'm intrigued by learning some martial arts now that I've started losing weight and am a bit more healthy. One thing I'm worried about is that I have a pretty bad knee from being hit by a car when I was a teenager. Are there any specific martial arts I should avoid if my knee isn't particularly great?

What are you looking for in a martial art?

Judo isn't always smooth on your knees but it's not that bad either. A lot of people with messed up knees do judo and they don't seem to have problems, you'll probably just avoid doing certain throws or do them only on one side. My knees can act up and I never had problem with judo, but your mileage may vary.

BJJ can be quite hard on your knees since you're on the ground all the time and there's a lot of kneeling/moving while kneeling/low stances and also some leg locks which might scare you if you have a weak knee.

I'm not sure how kicking might affect you so if you're more attracted to striking may be something like boxing would be best. I'd definitely avoid anything like muay thai where you may get kicked in the knee if you fail at checking a kick

Also avoid anything with flashy/jumpy kicks like some forms of kung fu.

KingColliwog fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Sep 14, 2016

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