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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Ringo Roadagain posted:

that Im talking about. what does this mean? why do you think there are forces that when unwrapped are isolated only to a single joint or bone, that when wrapped now spread around to multiple joints or bones? I dont understand the science behind this. The force should be spreading or not regardless of your hands being wrapped or not. because your bones are already wrapped in your skin and muscle and bound together by ligaments and tendons, and there is cartilage acting as a cushion between them, right?

Think about it this way - you can break one stick with your hands, but if you tape 4 sticks together it's way harder to break them because they're taped together and they support each other. The wraps keep everything in alignment, too.

Gloves actually provide very little wrist support because you can't get them nice and tight around the wrist with the velcro, and the interior of the gloves are sized with wraps in mind. When I wear gloves without wraps it feels like the gloves are flopping around on my knuckles and I hate it.



But you can do what you want. Just note that everyone else in this thread - the experienced people, many of whom have competed, some professionally in striking sports, others who have trained and cornered pro mma fighters and/or worked with people who have fought on pay per views in the UFC - everyone else is unanimous that the wraps make a big difference in preventing injury.

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Ringo Roadagain
Mar 27, 2010


02-6611-0142-1 posted:

Have you ever punched a heavy bag at a bad angle, accidentally landed on your pinky and dislocated it? Very difficult to do when wrapped. Isolated fingers vs fingers that you can't separate.

yes, yes, no. and arent your fingers still isolated with wraps? Ive never seen anyone bind their fingers together.

kimbo305 posted:

I honestly think it would be harder to find enough people of the same experience level / attributes to properly stratify the study.
Like past 1 year training of any sport that has full sparring competition, probably 99.9% of people wrap.
true, but I think its probably a little more than 1 in a thousand. out of the ufc's 700+ fighters you can find at least 2 who never use wraps, Wineland as someone mentioned and Gunnar Nelson, who isn't know for his punching power though. But there have to be at least a few more that we just dont know of. And even if it was difficult to find enough people, couldn't you, alternatively, do a different study, say comparing people who wrap their hands one way vs wrapping their hands another? Or comparing different lengths of wraps, or styles (I know they have 'wraps' that are basically just gloves, not sure if many professionals use them). If you find no significant difference, then that doesn't tell you much, but if you find one method of wrapping or length or style does reduce hand injuries, then you've sort of proved that wrapping can be effective.

It just seems crazy to me that millions of people around the world practice sports where wearing wraps is considered the norm, and there seems to be nothing studying their effectiveness.

Ringo Roadagain
Mar 27, 2010


CommonShore posted:

Think about it this way - you can break one stick with your hands, but if you tape 4 sticks together it's way harder to break them because they're taped together and they support each other. The wraps keep everything in alignment, too.
Yes, but all the bones in your hand are already stuck together.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Ringo Roadagain posted:

yes, yes, no. and arent your fingers still isolated with wraps? Ive never seen anyone bind their fingers together.

Your fingers are out of the way because you're making a fist.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Ringo Roadagain posted:

Yes, but all the bones in your hand are already stuck together.

More support is more support. Just wiggle your figners around. Your metacarpals can move independently inside your meat.

Zomblified
Feb 17, 2011

Guess what? You got it for free! Are you proud of yourself?



Wish I drank more milk as a kid and didn't shamefully use wraps.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



My rheumatologist said that there's a wide range of hand physiology. Some people's metacarpals mostly stay in a line, others have very soft hands. Similar ranges for wrist flexibility.

Ringo Roadagain
Mar 27, 2010


CommonShore posted:

But you can do what you want. Just note that everyone else in this thread - the experienced people, many of whom have competed, some professionally in striking sports, others who have trained and cornered pro mma fighters and/or worked with people who have fought on pay per views in the UFC - everyone else is unanimous that the wraps make a big difference in preventing injury.
This is true and I agree. While there is no science proving the effectiveness of hand wrapping, there isn't any saying it doesn't work, or that it is worse than not wrapping. So outside of being a lazy contrarian, which I am, there is no reason not to wrap. The worst thing that can happen is that it turns out they really are useless and that your wasting five minutes max every time you train. Just set your alarm 5 minutes earlier, get 5 minutes less sleep, and it will balance out.

CommonShore posted:

Your fingers are out of the way because you're making a fist.
what? why would you not be making a fist? you dont need wraps to make a fist.

CommonShore posted:

More support is more support. Just wiggle your figners around. Your metacarpals can move independently inside your meat.
true, more support is more support. but Im not sure how wrapping your hands up stops the bones from moving around in the meat. if they are moving around in the meat, why wont they move around in the wrap? The meat has been evolving for millions of years to work together with them bones.

Ringo Roadagain fucked around with this message at 05:30 on Mar 13, 2021

Ringo Roadagain
Mar 27, 2010


Anyway, Ive been browsing the internet in my quest for an answer to my question, and figured I should probably watch some videos of people wrapping their hands since it has been years sine Ive done it and when I did do it it wasn't for a very long time. So one person explained that the reason to wrap your hands is that it helps you make a better fist more easily. And of course, logically, having a better fist would mean a more secure and protected fist. Ill accept this reasoning, because it implies that you can also make this perfect fist without wraps, but wraps just make it much easier. This would explain why some people can not wrap for years (Eddie Wineland, myself) and never break a bone. We just naturally make a very good, very solid fist. I guess it is sort of like how some people just naturally have a strong punch (not me).

Anyway, thank you to everyone who replied to me and helped me in my journey for the truth

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Ringo Roadagain posted:

The meat has been evolving for millions of years to work together with them bones.

Not for punching, or sitting in office chairs, or dozens of things we do with our bodies now.

Ringo Roadagain posted:

We just naturally make a very good, very solid fist

I don't agree with that. Most people don't know how to make a fist that's worth punching. Wraps let you hold your hand differently from barehanded and still put the knuckles hard on target.

kimbo305 fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Mar 13, 2021

Ringo Roadagain
Mar 27, 2010


kimbo305 posted:

Not for punching, or sitting in office chairs, or dozens of things we do with our bodies now.

I don't agree with that. Most people don't know how to make a fist that's worth punching. Wraps let you hold your hand differently from barehanded and still put the knuckles hard on target.

Yeah that was my point. I was mostly making a joke there.

Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Whats a reasonable price to pay for boxing gloves?

I used to have a cheap pair with which I did kickboxing classes for some months on and off. Mostly fitness, some padwork, almost zero sparring. The gloves were in pretty rough shape by the end and I ditched them.

I'm now considering getting a pair again. This time its to gently caress around with/spar with some pals. Probably not very seriously or frequently. If boxing/kickboxing gyms ever allow partner work in my area I may start going to classes again. I already do BJJ so this is never going to be a major hobby.

I guess I'm wondering how little I can pay without going into territory where they're total poo poo and will fall apart on me.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I've had $100 gloves last a couple years of 1-2 times a week sparring/bag work. Really a waste to use sparring gloves on the bag, but
No pair I've had has ever torn the outer material. Either the velcro would wear out or the padding would collapse.

Zomblified
Feb 17, 2011

Guess what? You got it for free! Are you proud of yourself?



I'd recommend spending ~$50 a pair and get some dirt cheap handwraps if you don't already own them ($2-7 a hand). The Amazon Basics gloves are fine for messing around just make sure you get 14-16oz gloves assuming you guys are decent sized adults. If you want to go even cheaper you can get Everlast training gloves for like, $30. You can find gloves for 10-25$ but you risk an imperfection in manufacturing which could cause you some grief (loose stitching creating a rough edge leading to cuts for example).
Obvious disclaimer of if you haven't boxed with your friends before watch out; things get heated quick, people forget how hard they're throwing, and no gloves will fully dampen a full force punch from an adult.

Xand_Man
Mar 2, 2004

If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous




Perpetual disclaimer: Boxing gloves protect your hands, they do not effectively protect your sparring partner. A full force punch at a hard target ( like a human skull) can easily break the puncher's hand. Padding the hands means you can punch much harder.

If yall are doing serious full contact, I'd suggest investing in some headgear.

Zomblified
Feb 17, 2011

Guess what? You got it for free! Are you proud of yourself?



Xand_Man posted:

Perpetual disclaimer: Boxing gloves protect your hands, they do not effectively protect your sparring partner. A full force punch at a hard target ( like a human skull) can easily break the puncher's hand. Padding the hands means you can punch much harder.

If yall are doing serious full contact, I'd suggest investing in some headgear.

Mouthguards are a must but I'm sure you know that. Definitely agree on getting some headgear if you think you'll do this more than once. It's ~$20 a piece and you can pretty safely go cheap on them. I spent my teen years kickboxing my friends, some of them non-martial artists, in a garage with wrestling mats after sports practice and full padding definitely prevented tons of dumb injuries.

Zomblified fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Mar 15, 2021

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Count Roland
Oct 6, 2013



Xand_Man posted:

Perpetual disclaimer: Boxing gloves protect your hands, they do not effectively protect your sparring partner. A full force punch at a hard target ( like a human skull) can easily break the puncher's hand. Padding the hands means you can punch much harder.

If yall are doing serious full contact, I'd suggest investing in some headgear.

I'm aware of all this, but still thanks for the reminder. My good friend and I have messed each other up over the years with the odd scrap so I'm pretty cognizant of the dangers. The few guys I'm joining-- I kinda doubt they wear headgear but I'll keep that in mind. I'm really not very interested in having my bell rung. And I'll absolutely be wearing a mouth guard at all times.

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