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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



^^^^ dangit, my post got rejected by SA until just now.

KildarX posted:

So it's legit coaches, teaching legit stuff; but stealing everything else that makes McDojos insufferable?

Are we talking about Tiger Shulman's or Gracie Barra?

Surprise T Rex posted:

I've looked into a few places that do Judo and BJJ around me (and to a lesser extent Kickboxing/Muay Thai but I'm a pussy and might not enjoy being hit in the face), and I'm undecided so I'm gonna give some places a try. I think I'd like to train in something that had a mixture of striking and grappling as opposed to focusing entirely on one, but by the look of it that's pretty much just an MMA thing?

There's some pre-MMA disciplines that mix striking and grappling, but they're not as popular as gyms that train you directly for modern sport MMA rulesets and competition.
By pre-, I mean that their rulesets were devised and in use before the UFC and MMA competition really took off. I don't know that there's anything wrong with going with MMA -- just make sure you're getting good instruction.

Any such ruleset that allows striking will have you getting hit in the face some of the time in sparring, though. Over time, you can try to develop a very grappling oriented game, but that's over years of sparring and training.
At least getting hit is a strong incentive to figure out ways to get hit less frequently.

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Re preventing more knee injury, I think it's something you just have to approach more carefully than other students of your skill level.

In standup, the three areas that are probably most likely to injure knees are:
1. drilling/practicing round kicks. The support leg is under a lot of torque for the initial phase of the kick when the support foot is fully planted, so the knee experience a lot of shearing and twisting force
2. explosive/sudden footwork, especially if you're crouched deep and/or pivoting. You tend to get deeper down in boxing than in kickboxing, because you want to avoid getting kicked/kneed in the head and because you can use your kicks on lower targets
3. getting your kicks caught or taken down and fighting it
I would say roughly in that order of likelihood.

The first one you can avoid by starting light and paying attention to how your knee responds, and not going any further. There's no shame in having physical limitations you have to work around. I have a hip thing where I can't round kick above chest level with my left leg.

The second one is similar -- just don't go way too hard in sparring before you know how your knee responds.

The last one is one of the risks of doing real martial arts -- you can get injured sparring. If you're trying to take it easy, just go with the takedown initially instead of trying to fight it.

The most important thing is to tell your instructor about your injury/limitation and make sure he/she's responsive about tailoring the instruction, even if it's as simple as telling your partner to hold pads lower or not having you do some drills.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Odddzy posted:

I kinda thought it was weird the guy would try Krav stuff in a BJJ class.

If he thought it would work and was legit under the ruleset, why shouldn't he try it? Sure, there's reason to stick to the curriculum when you're a rank beginner, but experimentation is fun.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Wanted to get this out there on the ground floor -- training BJJ and some other grappling arts will give you sick combat roll skills.
I watched some guy rolling all over the mats by himself between classes. Dark Souls fan? I hope so.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



DarthJeebus posted:

like going back to school with all the other bigger stronger guys who chose me to show off on.

If there's a gym you check out with more than one or two of those types, move on. Definitely not all gyms are like that.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Odddzy posted:

What's wrong with the guy? I don't know much high level striking and fighting stuff so I always found him entertaining but I might be missing something.

I like his analyses, but the whole "fat sherdog poster" vibe comes from generally downplaying/ignoring non-technical aspects of a fight.
It's like he treats fighters as Tekken characters whose technique never wavers and who don't tire and don't get affected by getting hit.

Because of that, he does best when talking about fights that stay technical til the end, instead of ones where single big hits radically change the tone of the fight.

Baronash posted:

Is this how it's supposed to look? I admit that I don't know anything about martial arts, but it looks a heck of a lot like what used to pass for "sparring days" at the taekwondo place I went to as a kid.

Insofar as these guys clearly do some sparring in preparation for this competition, all live sparring tends to look similar, with less efficient or less effective movements getting weeded out.
The big flaw here is these guys are sacrificing all power for the sake of speed, so they throw these pointless arm punch combos. Pointless in a ruleset when you can score on damage, that is. That tactic might very well score well on whatever WC ruleset is involved there.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Entenzahn posted:

In the long run, is Muay Thai better in this regard or should I generally steer clear of striking arts if I'm overly worried about brain damage?

Sort of. Striking arts that aren't exclusively punching have fewer strikes landing to the head, but it obviously still happens.

There's an element of taking your life into your own hands -- you can develop a style that minimizes getting hit in the head and is generally effective on defense, or you can just throw leather every time you step in there.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



SnatchRabbit posted:

What's your guys take on standup sparring with takedowns, groundwork, but super light striking technique?

I guess my question is how useful is this from self-defense as well as sport/MMA/conditioning perspective?

Low power striking is fine for working your distance and defense, as long as your partner is keeping honest when you expose yourself and you take any landed hits as taking damage in a full power scenario.
It's good to be allowed to throw strikes to force your partner to readjust takedowns and entries. 90% of the time, it's figuring out when they're coming in with punches and shooting under that (or doing the Akiyama trip to them if you're fancy).

As for self-defense, see thread title.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



There's a new guy, orthodox, 6'3" (5in taller), pretty standard Muay Thai. I've been sitting out for a couple weeks nursing injuries. I should write up a game plan for next time I get to spar with him.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



CommonShore posted:

Right overhand past the jab to close the distance. Stay uncomfortably close, but not too close - just within his straight punching reach to keep him thinking about moving backward or throwing slower, looping punches. Watch out for knees, but trips are a good way to disincentivize those.

Should have mentioned that I'm southpaw.
He's very slow and low output as he's just getting back into the sport, but he's still pretty accurate and he knows how to use his reach really well.
He's got very competent jab-lead low kick and lead low kick-jab combos. The latter was really tricky because the normal amount of distance I'd step to get out of kick range wasn't enough to stay out of the last several inches of his jab.

I think for now, while there's a major speed difference, I'm going to work on moving in and off-line at the same time. Need to get under the jab and around his well-timing lead knee, which is pretty much at my sternum even without my ducking much.
If I go outside his jab, go cross to the body, pivot, lead hook to the head or uppercut to the body, rear body kick.
If I go inside his jab, rising jab to the head to tie up his jab, overhand, rear kick to body or lead leg. If he's not dropping back, maybe lead uppercut instead of kick.

Usually, trying to step outside someone orthodox is too slow, and they catch me with the jab or hook or cut me off.
But here, I have time and space under his jab to get really outside, where I have time to work before he ties up.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Sick chain wrestling:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nwN4dOkKDPw

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Boxing for MMA or boxing boxing?
Some people find they have more power with the rear foot pointing to the side and have enough skill elsewhere to live with it. It makes it a bit easier to slip to your inside.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Does O Sensei mean my coach or something?

Re Systema -- my best guess as to how they got going is that they had legit Russian military training, and then decided to market whatever you want to call Systema that way, with the blend of camo clothing and Russian mysticism (e.g. Fedor, Silva, witch doctor)

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Some Jewish people (ok, it's mostly guys) want to do it because it has that connection to Israel. I get it, but a lot of the instruction isn't worth it.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Vargatron posted:

I realized I'd get destroyed in competition

Does that not have the same problem as training? What open events are there?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Vargatron posted:

Well AAU has senior open events that you can compete in, but most of those guys are cutting weight or are just out of college. I don't see many guys just out there for exercise although I do remember seeing a few 'master' divisions for older guys back when I competed around 10 years back.

It'd be fun to just get out there and roll around a bit I think.

I agree with you -- it'd be nice to have low-level competitions with folkstyle or freestyle rulesets.
I'm thankful my gym even offers a pure wrestling class.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I hit a wall just sparring and drilling classes, but could take on way more rounds with just a tiny modicum of running. Does that go with or against the "do more of the same" for grappling?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Xguard86 posted:

might pass through to lay some knowledge on us.

Typical BJJ mindset. They should should shoot a power double and crossface the knowledge into our mouths.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



When you're 6'7", you just might outreach a kangaroo's kick:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIRT7lf8byw#t=18s

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Men abusing their positions of power? Why I never

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Grandmaster.flv posted:

also definitely don't stab your coach - you'll either go to jail or get your rear end hilariously kicked in front of your girlfriend who will probably get turned on by the whole thing

Stop robbing the world of another Fabricio Werdum.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



CommonShore posted:


Anyone ever go through this kind of thing with a club before? Any lessons learned?

How far is the move? If it affects people's travel to the gym, you're gonna lose members. The club needs to promote, promote, promote. Offer good incentives to bring people in. Have the lower level classes designed so people can be more casual and not feel guilty about missing classes.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I just got your user name. :noice:

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Novum posted:

general willie dbagg-age.

Oooh, you gonna just sit there and take that, willie? Sit there and not drive your hips through that elbow?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



Kekekela posted:


I don't know this term , does that mean its more susceptible to future damage?

It's a legal term -- eggshell skull. If someone had a very fragile body and you hurt them doing something that wouldn't hurt a normal person, the injury is on you even if you didn't know about their condition. I dunno if the gym waiver would change things.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I.N.R.I posted:

I wasnt expecting this thread to be so sordid

Usually it's just "here's why you don't want to do Krav Maga" posts.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



When going hand-to-hand with extraterrestrials, if you open with a reverse punch, expect to be steeple blocked:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/26903...e-was-abducted/

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



It should obviously be BREATHE: http://imgur.com/a/FTytK

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



smilehigh posted:

I must've got really lucky with my win chun place then because they also do bjj and we spar every Friday. We get yelled at if we fake punch/kick when learning new moves because you can't actually learn anything that way.

So I'm not really understanding the hate... but apparently this is not normal for win chun?
A lot of Chinese kung fu as it's taught in the US, including Wing Chun, is extremely form based. Like the instruction will be around perfecting your form, and not using it in any sparring contexts.
If you have any videos representative of your school's training style, feel free to link it for earnest (as well as mean-spirited) dissection.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



The levels described here are reasonable but the amount of safety gear seems targeted at calling out BS schools.
There's nothing wrong with having proper or even excess safety equipment as long as the sparring is done properly.
Especially for beginners, I don't think it makes sense to ask them to gauge the gear.

6-7: Medium contact with excessive safety gear.
8-9: Hard contact with reasonable safety gear and/or limited to one range of fighting (standup/grappling).
10: Regular (monthly or less) skill testing via full contact, full range fighting, minimum safety equipment.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



ImplicitAssembler posted:

But again, doesn't that depend entirely on what your purpose of practicing your chosen MA is?.

Not sure what you're referring to by "that." Having beginners assess degree of equipment used to level of sparring?

My contention is that rating safety gear along a minimum-excessive spectrum doesn't make sense. Like there's a minimum mouthguard you could use for hard sparring?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



KildarX posted:

If youre wearing more than say , gloves, shins, a mouth piece, headgear and cup it'd be a bit excessive. So foot pads, chest/stomach guard and face cage would be pretty excessive for medium contact.

I wouldn't care if someone wanted to spar in that extra stuff.
The point fighting karate gear that tends to cover those areas is just not very good protection past light sparring. I absolutely agree that people should spar in appropriate gear. They should use stuff that works or at least know the limitations of what they're using. Proper gear is something that can be taught, but some schools with uneven sparring programs might be doing their students a disservice there, just marking up cheapo foam stuff to make a buck.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



ImplicitAssembler posted:

No, that sparring is necessary for a martial art to be 'alive'.
I think this dimension of martial arts is almost tautological. Proper sparring is alive, and aliveness comes from proper sparring.
Techniques you execute are never perfect, and you have to constantly adjust to what your opponent is doing.

quote:

I (periodically) practice Katori Shinto Ryu and there's no sparring. Yet, it's a school that stood the test of time (and battles).

By my definition above, I don't think an art with no sparring can be alive. Having no knowledge of that art and going only by the wikipedia page, that curriculum seems like the taichi of weapons fighting, and I imagine that soldiers would have had to do some sparring to prepare for serving in war.

Sparring with weapons is possible but I acknowledge that it's hard to do in a way that's as similar as a real fight (where someone could get killed by a real edge).

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I got two pairs of Everlast 180" wraps that lasted forever, but rebuying Everlast didn't help.
Trying other wrap brands has also been fruitless -- most are not elastic enough to unfold/dewrinkle themselves from handwashing and wringing, which means they take longer to put on.
I tried this one pair of bamboo fiber wraps that are both not stretchy enough initially and too loose once you take them off.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



ImplicitAssembler posted:

So, you know anyone who spars with live blades?.

Sometimes you throw up a headkick that could be KO power but you ease up before it lands. Your partner acknowledges that it could have been much worse, you reset, and resume sparring.
Is that not possible with wooden/blunt weapons and appropriate armor?

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



It's probably less of a workout than aikido.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



I don't think you're stretching as much in taichi as you do in yoga, but I've never done yoga.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



If you practice a striking combat sport and then do taichi, a lot of the weight shifting, turning of hips, and driving through strikes will be familiar. But for most taichi instruction, that's all it'll ever be, these forms that are structurally related to some striking techniques.

P-Mack posted:

I think there's some guys out there working on reconstructing a more martial 19th century form of Taichi, but they're not trying to sell it as effective for teh streetz.

Yeah, I love that stuff, trying to figure out if there was ever a more applied to fighting version of a now seemingly not-useful martial art.
This is the best clip I have of that sort of thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZmH9jR5eo

The instructor is obviously well versed in Chinese shuaijiao (that's what those shortsleeved tops are for), and you can see even when he's doing the form that he incorporates real motions for gripping onto your opponent into the move.
Try as I might, I haven't gotten that technique to work with gloves on in sanshou sparring. It's hard to slow things down and stay in clinch range with nothing but limbs to grip onto. That's not to say that sanshou doesn't have numerous other no-gi trips and throws.

kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



LionArcher posted:

Yes, there is resisting uke practice. There's all teaching counters to techniques being applied. One of my favorite instructors is a retired police officer. He's great at resisting techniques and showing how to apply it correctly.

What are the best videos showing proper aikido sparring and drilling?

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kimbo305
Jun 9, 2007

He is I, and I am him



LionArcher posted:

I've heard there's a French instructor who has very solid videos, but judging from this thread it might be a lot of (lol that's fake)
But I don't go looking for them either.

If you can find those videos, or his name, I'd like to see it.
To paraphrase, game recognize game, so when I look at sparring videos, I can get a sense of the relative skill of the particpants, and what an art emphasizes.
Aikido schools (or the aikido community) doesn't seem to want to test its students that way, which is strange to anyone who participates in a combat sport, since of course there's an element of playing the sport how it's going to be scored.

In fact, one of the things I enjoy most is when people come to our gym from another school and spar with us. Trying to see their style live is so educational and entertaining.

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