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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Plus it's fun to use your post count as evidence that you can beat people up on the internet.


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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Surprise T Rex posted:

Yeah, I wanted to avoid picking a specific MMA class because it's 'trendy' and I assume that like Krav, it's basically gonna be a shitshow of guys teaching any old poo poo.

Depends on the gym. You can go into one and get something that is like "KARATE NINJITSU KRAV MAGA MMA" on the sign, but you can get another where there are pro fighters teaching the class. Just research the gym a bit.

And if you give your general location there may be people in this thread who will happily advise.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Surprise T Rex posted:

I should probably clarify that being afraid of being hit was (mostly ) a joke, I'm gonna give some striking styles a go along with some grappling ones.


I'm in Nottingham in the UK, so If anyone has recommendations for Judo, BJJ, Muay Thai or Kickboxing around here, that'd be great. There's one MMA place here that does both BJJ and Muay Thai classes which could be interesting. I'm leaning quite heavily toward Judo from looking into things online, but a lot of the Judo schools nearby seem to be smaller less polished outfits run in a local youth club rather than a dedicated location.

I'm planning to just check out a fair few places for a bunch of different styles over the next couple of weeks and see what I enjoy most.

I can't give you any specifics but I am pretty that there's at least one legit MMA gym there, as that's Dan Hardy's hometown. He may not be an all-time-great, but he's pretty knowledgeable and well-regarded.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




ImplicitAssembler posted:

Judo tends to be run as non-profits and as long as they''re members of the appropriate national org, should actually be decent enough. Quality will still vary, but not to the extend of McDojo's.

Yeah to expand on this, it's actually impossible to get a legit black belt in Judo without someone important having reviewed your Judo in some way. If (when) I go for mine, I'll have to be tested by an octogenarian Japanese 8th dan who visits the Kodokan regularly and a guy who is a qualified world-level official. To register in a Judo tournament you need to be registered with the regional organization through a registered and certified club which has registered and certified instructors. In Canada, to become a registered and certified Judo instructor you also need to become part of the official Sport Canada organization, which has standardized registration (and background checks) across the country. That whole affair costs about $250 and requires a weekend's training + an online course for the absolute lowest level of involvement.

Despite all of its failings, the single international judo federation keeps lots of bullshit from getting on the market, and this is an effect of the Olympic infrastructure. I may not be able to grab anyone's leg, but I also don't have to explain why the guy down the street who claims to be teaching Ishu-no-Shizen Ryu judo who guarantees a black belt in two years is a scam artist - because he doesn't exist (or he teaches "Japanese Jiu Jitsu" instead of Judo).

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Never ever tell a cop/judge that you're trained and your "instincts took over". That's what these goobers would do. That's how to go to jail.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




BJJ is fun. I think of it now like I think of board games - "gosh, it'll be great jolly fun to go roll a bit. Wouldn't that be swell?"

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Smoking Crow posted:

muay thai good, krav and wing bad

Seconded. I'll also add that traditional boxing gyms can be fun and that boxing - if you include the whole set of techniques such as footwork and defensive head movement - is an excellent self-defense discipline, if we're thinking of self-defense as "getting out of a bad situation without serious injury" rather than as "beating someone up."

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




KildarX posted:

I did wing chun for awhile before moving on to BJJ and Kickboxing and I can post a huge data dump on my experience with Chun if the thread wants it, but the TLDR of it is there is no point in learning Wing Chun because what you learn isn't taught in an applicable manner, and the few good things you learn from it are things you would have learned implicitly from rolling BJJ/NoGi/whatever within your first six months.

My only experience in Wing Chun was doing some super playful no-contact sparring with a guy who basically just moved the goalposts whenever I did anything.

Entenzahn posted:

Oh, did not expect that about Krav - would you say it's all around a bad system or is this more of a thing where it's too hard to find an instructor that isn't teaching you five finger death punches and spirit bombs?

Mostly asking out of curiosity at this point since it looks like I'll be doing MT based on your responses, or maybe boxing if I can't be arsed to get up at 6.30 to get my poo poo kicked in before work. thanks for the feedback guys

e: ^I'd totally read that data dump

It's just true about anything that's supposedly based in military combatives. You can take our word for it, but if you go check out some Krav Maga videos on youtube, you'll see lots of poo poo that's basically instructions for getting shot in the face while trying to defend yourself. Many of those "self-defense" videos are so hilariously bad that I imagine that even a completely untrained person should be able to spot the bullshit if they're being slightly skeptical of what they're watching.

I actually found a used 1970s US Military Combatives handbook in a bookstore, and it basically was just Elvis Presley-style Karate, and the preface said (close paraphrase) "Don't waste your time with Judo - learn Karate and knock the guy out when he's coming in." I wish I had bought the thing but they wanted like $15 for it. Maybe next time I go in I'll offer the owner $5 or something.

CommonShore fucked around with this message at 18:02 on Sep 20, 2016

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Omglosser posted:

This is loving awesome. Do you have a link or something that could verify this? I keep getting "aikido works cuz o sensei trained military guys" type stuff on google searches.



With all this Wing Chun talk, here's a video I found that accurately depicts the level of real-life combat effectiveness you'll get from training it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EebdGO3zABk



On a serious note, I've always wanted to (if I had the loving time/money) just go and learn all kinds of the bullshit martial arts like aikido etc etc, just to see if there's anything effective that could be found in them. Whether it be a technique, philosophy, footwork, takedown/clinch entry, you know, something. I think a big problem with these kinds of dojos is the teachers have a self-obligation to try and 'sell' their art to people to get and keep students, so they have to hole down and say "NO NO NO IT WORKS YOU JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND" when faced with scrutiny.(in my bjj class the teacher's attitude towards new people is "if they like it they'll stay") In that sense I feel like anything that might be effective would be thrown to the wayside or overlooked/underutilized because the training/teaching focus is more on the belt curriculum and tradition and sales points, rather than aliveness and the evolution of finding effective techniques. It would be cool to take techniques and whatever else from these bullshido arts and take them OUT of their element and apply them elsewhere, just for fun. Just to see if something new and effective could be born from something lame because someone took the time to apply aliveness to it.

Jack Slack gets some poo poo on these boards, but he has a number of articles where he does exactly this - identifying bullshido techniques or similar things working in high-level MMA bouts. The two I can remember are that he did a Wing Chun analysis of one of the Lawler-Hendricks fights (which were both significantly trapping-range fights), and he found a bunch of goofy Karate poo poo from goofy katas that Machida pulled off in real fights with slight modifications..

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Omglosser posted:

Interesting...I just read one of his articles, he seems level headed and pragmatic in his analyses. Thanks!

Odddzy posted:

What's wrong with the guy? I don't know much high level striking and fighting stuff so I always found him entertaining but I might be missing something.

Some posters in the UFC threads characterize him as a fat sherdog poster with a strip-mall karate belt and an overreliance on wikipedia. FWIW I like him too but I haven't read one of his articles for like a year

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Wrageowrapper posted:

Pretty sure that is Tomoe Nage. I was taught to only use it when you are completely knackered and have nothing else but its just so much fun.

correct. Note that in the olympics a female athlete hit a tomoe nage into a rolling armbar attack. It's a legit good throw, but you're not going to nail it on anyone good if you don't have some kind of forward posture break going on.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Neon Belly posted:

Isn't it considered not best practice to shower before rolling, unless necessary? I was under the impression that the skin already has some good bacteria set up as a first line of microbial defense, but showering can mess up that balance for long enough that immediately rolling after can be (marginally more) risky.

Correct, more or less. You want to hit the mat with the most naturally healthy skin possible, because that's more disease-resistant. Like, if you're actually dirty, wash that poo poo off, but if it's just a normal day's sweat in a non-gross job, it's probably better to just rinse your face and put on fresh deodorant and put on fresh rolling clothes. To shower or shave or exfoliate or anything right before rolling can increase the risk of getting bad poo poo into your skin.

But use your judgment. I have a training partner who works in a grain warehouse. She needs a shower after work or else she's coming to practice covered in barley and wheat dust, which is an irritant for everyone and an allergen for some. Don't roll covered in barley and wheat dust.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Entenzahn posted:

Follow-up to yesterday: I've enrolled in a boxing class. The Muay Thai class sounds nice too but it's early in the morning and my inline skating course is on the same day late in the evening. Muay Thai sounds pretty intense so I think that would be too much. I'd also have to lift weights the morning after

Keep giving us updates on what's happening in the class, and how you feel about it!

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




KildarX posted:

Actually it'd look like this in the ideal wing chun world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nl_F9qfxcnc

but, what Siivola's video is pretty much par for the course. No head defense, chain punches, single shots, very little defensive movement except for wedge intercepts.

That video is the dumbest poo poo I've seen since the World Championships of Competitive Breaking Karate video.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




You won't be sparring right away anyway. If they put you in the ring on day 1 (or even month 1), get out.

KingColliwog posted:

It's a legit good attack, but you have to know when to use it. It's a really great newbie crusher since they tend to push on you a lot so they go flying easy. I think a lot of coach tell people to stay away because in competition if the other guy looks like he kind of may be tried to do foot sweep and dodged your tomoe he might get ippon since you fell on your back, so it's kind of risky in comp. I still used it quite a few time to sort of pull guard in judo when I felt overwhelmed standing up and it led to a few victories, but it's called a sacrifice throw for a reason.

I had that happen to me. I was tired so I stepped through the guy's stance and went for a really deep tomoe/guard pull, but the guy put his leg behind mine and they gave him a wazari-awasete-ippon.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Entenzahn posted:

Alright, thanks guys. The course is only going for 90 minutes a week so I'll do as you suggested and only spar occasionally with protective gear on. In the long run, is Muay Thai better in this regard or should I generally steer clear of striking arts if I'm overly worried about brain damage?

Pretty much all the same for striking arts. There's lots of light contact sparring you can do that isn't terribly risky. The #1 rule is just never spar without a trustworthy coach around.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




On the other hand showing up for a teaching job with a black eye is loving awesome, so sparring is good.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Surprise T Rex posted:

To be honest I'm way off being able to try that yet.

I'm struggling to do O Soto Gari with any level of consistency after only a few classes, though I'm not too frustrated, I can see that I'll get into the swing of it all eventually.

The one thing that new people often overlook with Osoto is body contact. Your shoulder should be pushing into Uke's shoulder, and you should be trying to grind your lapel hand as a fist on Uke's jaw, (even if you can't make it all the way there - that's just the vector). It's a super close-range throw.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




VulgarandStupid posted:

I don't understand why you would go for an arm bar without trying to use it to end the fight ie. break it or at least threaten to break it. You're just giving up position.

It looked to me like her opponent actually quit there and submitted and stopped fighting, and then she got on top of her and kept beating her rear end anyway.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




The first one looks like the best of the bunch, but I'll admit that the second one's website is so bad that they might not exist, or they might be the best judo club ever.

$80 month isn't bad. Our (Canadian) club charges $50 adults, $40 students/kids, $30 for half-time, and we knock off $5 for a family rate for children/siblings of other members. But we're also a nonprofit run entirely by volunteers, and we have to lay out the mats every week.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Rabhadh posted:

My college club costs 2 euro for a year

e: nobody told me guillotines were illegal in judo. Also I pulled off a bicep slicer, which might be illegal but I've never done one before.

I've sat down with refs and discussed these things, including demoing the techniques.

Guillotines are illegal and they aren't illegal. They're legal if you're applying pressure with a slicing motion and compressing the neck to create a strangle. The old japanese grappling manuals I have use the same name for that as for the rear naked choke (hadaka jime). They're illegal if you're pulling on the head or creating pressure by pushing down on the back of the head and thus cranking the neck.

The guillotine is risky becuase it's really the ref's discretion which way you're going, so if you're going for a guillotine, make sure you're doing the good technique version where you're shrugging your shoulders and getting a nice high elbow to show that it's a strangle and not some ridiculous save neck yank. One thing to consider on the guillotine is that if your hands are in position to get it, your hands are pretty much in position to get an inverted cross-collar choke, which is unambigously not a neck crank (i.e grab the far side lapel with the choking arm, fingers in, and then reach underneath and grab the free one with the hand that otherwise would have been the outside arm in the guillotine, and then bring your elbows together.)

Bicep slicers are also technically illegal, but that's much easier to sell to the ref as "I was attempting to peel his arm out for an arm bar and he just tapped." It might not however be a good idea to go for that highly technical version of the bicep slicer in which you triangle the legs around the elbow, however, because that pretty much looks like an elbow compression.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




kimbo305 posted:

There's a new guy, orthodox, 6'3" (5in taller), pretty standard Muay Thai. I've been sitting out for a couple weeks nursing injuries. I should write up a game plan for next time I get to spar with him.

Right overhand past the jab to close the distance. Stay uncomfortably close, but not too close - just within his straight punching reach to keep him thinking about moving backward or throwing slower, looping punches. Watch out for knees, but trips are a good way to disincentivize those.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




JaySB posted:

No one has tried to invert their guard or just roll on the arm you threw across their body?

In judo to stay facedown or turtled is too greatly incentivized in the rules, so people will just try to ride things out in that position.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Nierbo posted:

So at MMA one of the coaches sons was teaching boxing and he said to keep my back foot parallel to my front, but I watched a tonne of boxing online yesterday and I don't think I saw a single boxer do that. Whats the deal?

It's a style thing. The amateur coaches I used to work with went for the general parallel approach, which is more of a relaxed foot position thing, and I've seen material (Hazlitt's book, eg) that prescribes a kind of pidgeon-toed approach.

Unless you mean that he was saying that you should never under any circumstances have your feet in any position other than parallel. That would be weird.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




02-6611-0142-1 posted:

my dojo... is the street

The best base for MMA is homelessness. Cody McKenzie p4p #1.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Odddzy posted:

For sure it's the sensible option but seeing a doctor in Canada in my city for sprains takes about 13-14 hours in the emergency room. I tried avoiding going to it if it was at all possible but it's all good. It doesn't hurt anymore really. Ice helped.

Then don't go to the ER - go to any clinic which accepts walk-in patients.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Fuckin Trump Riot posted:

It is! You're sure as poo poo not going to learn how to win a cage fight but you can at least get away from attackers.

You spend a lot of time spinning in circles though.

The thread can benefit from an Aikido poster. I get the sense that a lot of us have had the Aikido experience that's "check out this technique I need you to grab my hand... no my other hand... no like this... well it doesn't work if you do that..."

Keep Aikidoing and posting about it.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Wheat Loaf posted:

Recently in BJJ a guy showed me a good move for getting a submission from side control, where you basically use one side of your gi as a garrote - say you've taken side control on the other guy's left side, you take the right corner of your own gi, pass it to your other hand to loop it around the back of his neck, then sort of twist away so your head is facing the same direction as his feet. Is that sort of thing permitted in a competition context?

I imagine it would be but for some reason it doesn't really feel like it should be. (Maybe I'm just saying that because it's probably the single strongest choke I've been in!)

I know you're talking BJJ, but that strangle is illegal in Judo - the only gi strangles permissible are with uke's lapel or with your own sleeve (Sode guruma / ezekiel)

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




ihop posted:

What about the Gerbi choke/Peruvian necktie?

Edit: Gerbi, not Gerbil

Hm all I can say is that the rules must have changed since then. I'm going off of an October 22 rules meeting with a high-level ref in which I asked him specifically about strangles with tori's gi. It's possible that there's some other context thing that someone (possibly me) is missing.

e. found it
https://www.eju.net/?action=settingsfile&id=350&file...portalId=77

quote:

Shime-waza is not allowed with either your own or your opponents belt or bottom of the
jacket, or using only the fingers.
This action should be penalized by shido.
Article 25. Point 14 and 18 will be strictly observed.

Ambiguous phrasing.

CommonShore fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Nov 25, 2016

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Our club has a once-per-week, though inconsistently so, wrestling class taught by a rogue beekeeper.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




hi liter posted:

Do more grappling.

That's not 100% true. I can roll for 10 minutes straight without getting tired, but my cardio is pretty poor right now outside of that, so if someone really pushes the pace on me and makes me work, I start to suffer.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




ICHIBAHN posted:

Don't get how it's not true

More grappling doesn't so much improve your cardio capacity as it reduces the amount of energy needed to grapple at your favoured pace. To do actual cardio work on top of that will have an added effect.

So it's true in that it will help you grapple longer without getting tired, but it's not true in that more grappling will not do much to help recovery or lung capacity and the like as much as adding a bit of HIIT to your weekly routine.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




kimbo305 posted:

I hit a wall just sparring and drilling classes, but could take on way more rounds with just a tiny modicum of running. Does that go with or against the "do more of the same" for grappling?

What you're doing is basically what I'm arguing for, and I guess I'm against "do more of the same."

hi liter posted:

That's because they are better than you. Grappling is cardio work. Failure and losing in practice is not a big deal, it is in face the point of practice.

Or you can try not working as hard or not practicing more and seeing what your results are.

You're also not considering that some (most) people have physical limitations on the amount of hard grappling/sparring that they can do. I can't go hard very often, because I'm older, and I don't recover in the same ways that younger people do. I'm also smaller, so I get injured at a higher rate than the big guys. I'm already on the mats 6-8 hours per week at an intensity that I have identified as my body's safe limit. If I increase it, I'll simply find myself having to skip practices to heal.

You'd never see a (good) boxing/mma coach say something like "running is for idiots, just go spar more," because that's how fighters get injured. Why is it different for grappling?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




ICHIBAHN posted:

It increases your grappling cardio though, no? Which is the whole point?

The initial question is whether doing extra cardio can help your grappling endurance. My position is that grappling more can help that, but that grappling on its own isn't a great way to improve a few things (especially recovery) which more conventional cardio exercise does very very well. For me to get to a level of intensity point where I feel as if my cardio is getting tested by having an elevated heart rate, my rolls have to become really fast and hard - like competition rather than like practice - which is what leads to injuries or just an awful beaten-up feeling the next day.

Maybe things are different for guys who are higher level, but for what it's worth Eddie Bravo did HIIT in a swimming pool to prepare for the Royler rematch.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Xguard86 posted:

and he was a lefty. Good luck figuring that poo poo out.

Not until Rocky 3.

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




SnatchRabbit posted:

I'm getting ready for my first BJJ tournament as a white belt. I've been going through the rules book and familiarizing myself with the ref's hand signals and fouls and prohibited techniques. Does anyone have any general advice for a tournament newbie?

1. Breathe. This deserves to be mentioned again.
2. Worry about your offense, trust your defense. If you do the reverse, you'll spend the whole match defending.
3. Take your time in your matches. 5 minutes gives you plenty of opportunity to work. Don't rush in and try to win right away.

E. an important one which is crunchier - make sure that when you get a position that you sink it in deep and hold it for a five count in your head before continuing to the next position, because under the most common novice rulesets that's where points get awarded. Several of my teammates did stuff like guard break-kneeslice-side-mount-armbar without stopping and then their opponent escapes, and they didn't get any points for their effort. Had they stopped for 3 seconds at side and 3 seconds at mount, they would have gotten ... 7? I think? I say 5 count in your head because you'll rush it, and some refs award points slowly.

Other than that, go and have fun. Cheering for teammates is super fun too!

Don't be afraid to tap, as nothing is on the line.

Remember that the difference between first place and last place is tiny compared to the difference between last place and not showing up. Being there and getting out there is literally the most difficult hurdle to cross.

The people you meet will be cool and fun, too, and there shouldn't be any weird grudges or rivalries at white belt. After my more frustrating losses, I've asked my opponents about what happened and picked up some technical details as a consequence.

CommonShore fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Dec 1, 2016

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




hi liter posted:

Congrats on the competition experience! Just going out and competing puts you ahead of so many other people, regardless of results.

Question: I need a new judo gi and Hatashita doesn't have the size I need - where do you folks buy your gear?

I like Jukado for all of my judo needs. They're not a top-level gi but they're good enough and I feel that for a practice gi to buy 3 for the price of one mizuno keeps laundry easy. Plus they have a Canadian HQ.

http://www.jukado.com/

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Yuns posted:

Under IBJJF rules, you must be a 2nd degree black belt to promote to black belt. Each degree takes 3 years and black belt starts with no degrees so it is black belt then 3 years then 1st degree black belt then 3 years then 2nd degree black belt. So you would have to be a black belt for 6 years to promote someone esle to black.

That 0th degree to 1st degree is a weird thing. Why doesn't start at 1st degree (shodan)?

CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




If you consider that Harvard passed a "teachers cannot date students" academic regulation and that it passed entirely without controversy, which for university professors to allow a restrictive regulation to pass without anything resembling resistance is completely unprecedented in the history of the western academy, should indicate how not cool that whole situation is.

, and I hope that you find a new hugfight happy place, and that your relationship with your GF isn't hurt because of this whole crap.

"Free private lessons" jesus christ. The instructors at my little podunk gym don't even want to be in a room alone with younger female students lest rumours get started or accusations arise. e. haha free "secret" private lessons even.

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CommonShore
Jun 6, 2014

A true renaissance man




Omglosser posted:

Bro I was so loving paranoid. If true this poo poo would devastate his entire life. He wanted to come talk it out at our house and I said only if a third party can be present as a witness in case I "attack him in a jealous rage" and "accidentally" get choked to death. Suddenly he couldn't come by anymore when I was adamant about a third party being there. I keep my knife on me. FMA>BJJ on the streets bruh. He insists that he really likes me and wants me to come back. I'm not going to. No loving way. When I firmly confronted my girl about what was going on she had such a bad anxiety attack she went into convulsions. Yet she still wants to go class.


I've honestly never felt comfortable there. He and his lackeys always kinda would make eye contact and look away real fast with me. His eyes would light up when my girl walked in and he'd immediately start making "innocent" sex jokes.

Wait what - it got to that point and you always felt uncomfortable and you're still going there?

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