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I think Fiona did right by Etta. Her gas situation would have gotten her place shutdown, and could have potentially killed her. Her mental condition was deteriorating to the point where she was wandering around the neighborhood confused and Fiona gave her a few good memories. I guess you could argue that Fiona could have paid her the 100k that the company was originally offering her but 85k is still enough for her to live out her days in assisted living being tended to which is a lot better than being homeless or dead which is where she was headed. I'm pretty surprised the Fiona came out ahead although maybe the initial success was just to give her a bigger platform to fail more spectacularly on. Also I know that relationships are a big part of people's lives but it's been nice having Fiona not be centered around her romantic ones this season. Wish that were true of everyone else in the show. Except Ian and Mickey, that was a nice 3 episode closure that was better than Mickey going to jail never to be seen again.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:08
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The Lord Bude posted:Even if you consider it exclusively from the perspective of Etta's best interests it's still 100% the correct thing to do, as sad as it seems. gently caress that, dude. She's been the closest thing to a lead since at least season 3, while Frank should've been killed off years ago.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:11
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The Lord Bude posted:
The writers have a lot of work to do to show that there's more story necessary. I don't think they're up to it. There were always some issues (dropped subplots, weird timelines, WTF with Estefania), but I think they found a groove in season two, built a strong season three, hit it out of the park in four, and haven't really known where to go since, with timelines, tone, and characterization careening all over the place. Except for Frank, of course, who is consistently obnoxious.
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Dec 12, 2016 18:25
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The Lord Bude posted:I'm going to be supremely pissed off if Emmy Rossum causes this show to be cancelled because she's too greedy to settle for equal pay with Macy. It seems like she wants more pay than Macy specifically to overcorrect for several seasons of being paid less than him despite being the lead. I don't know where you're getting that she won't "settle for equal pay" it sounds like they weren't even offering that to begin with, and what she's explicitly asking for is "equal pay with back pay to compensate for years of unequal pay".
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Dec 12, 2016 23:05
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She was offered equal pay with Macy in the current round of negotiations, in keeping with the well established principle that actors in an ensemble initially get paid based on their draw power, but gradually the original cast reaches parity, and from then on receives equal pay moving forward. This has been the norm in television for decades, and helps eliminate on set tensions. Rossum was a nobody when shameless started. It was perfectly natural that she'd be paid considerably less than macy, and now that her contract has been renewed, she was offered equal pay in accordance with the parity principle. If showtime were to cave to her demands all of a sudden it would create an unacceptable precedent for other shows. So yes, she is just being greedy. As it is she more than likely earns 7 figures a year, but if things keep going the way they are, she's going to screw all her other coworkers out of a job, and all her fans out of getting more of a very good show.
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Dec 13, 2016 06:08
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The Lord Bude posted:She was offered equal pay with Macy in the current round of negotiations, in keeping with the well established principle that actors in an ensemble initially get paid based on their draw power, but gradually the original cast reaches parity, and from then on receives equal pay moving forward. This has been the norm in television for decades, and helps eliminate on set tensions. Rossum was a nobody when shameless started. It was perfectly natural that she'd be paid considerably less than macy, and now that her contract has been renewed, she was offered equal pay in accordance with the parity principle. If showtime were to cave to her demands all of a sudden it would create an unacceptable precedent for other shows. So yes, she is just being greedy. As it is she more than likely earns 7 figures a year, but if things keep going the way they are, she's going to screw all her other coworkers out of a job, and all her fans out of getting more of a very good show. So, uh, where are you pulling this information from because I don't see anything remotely coming close to what you're talking about. Also, let's not forget, while Macy is a known actor he's not some big deal superstar. Whether or not you like the character, Fiona has pretty much been the main character for a good four to five seasons. The early promo art had Macy as the focal point:   But as the show went on, the promotions became more and more Rossum focused. Which makes sense, because she's the breakout actor in a pretty great cast:    * This narrative of Rossum being some sorta greedy, overreaching primadonna you're trying to set up is weird. I think it's weirder to not assume that she wasn't getting paid on parity with Macy because she's come to dominate most of the promo pictures and has more screentime than Macy in the show. * Graphic designer talk here: I'd argue this one is a good split between Macy and Rossum since the focal point is Macy's hand which splits the emphasis between Macy in all white and Rossum in all black. It's really eyecatching and a solid-as-heck poster with great composition. e: I actually came across the other article now and I can see how this could come across as over-reaching, but seeking backpay for the previous seasons isn't that egregious. Rossum has been doing the heaviest lifting on the show and should get top billing. Vanderdeath fucked around with this message at 08:20 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 07:27
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The way I understand it (and people w/ more knowledge feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), when actors sign for a television show more often than not the main players typically sign on for a seven year contract. Maybe The Lord Bude worded it a little agressively or whatever, but I pretty much agree with like all of his points. Emmy Rossum was not at all very famous when she first signed on for this show, I've always been a fan of hers but really her biggest movies are The Day After Tomorrow and the Lloyd Webber directed Phantom adaptation. Macy is an incredibly famous actor. Guy's been acting consistently since before Rossum was born. So anyway, if they go ahead with a season eight new contracts need to be drawn up. It's been reported that Rossum was offered the same deal as Macy months ago, before the stories starting breaking about her asking for more. I have no problem with her asking for more, it's entirely within her rights for her and her agent to try and get more money if she thinks she deserves more money-- she's basically been the lead with the most focus since day one, if you think about it. I wouldn't mind at all if she was paid more, or if Allen White was paid the same as or more than Macy for seasons going forward. However I don't think it's unfair for everybody (assuming the other siblings who have come front and center in the past few seasons were offered the same or reasonably matched deals) to just be paid the same. It's an ensemble show and imho that's the fairest way this plays out for everybody involved. If Showtime doesn't bend to her, she's free to sign the original deal if she's still passionate about the show and wants to stay on. I'd hope she does this, and no disrespect against her whatsoever but I would be a little pissed if she bailed on the show just because they didn't pay her more, if only because if don't cancel it in that situation, Shameless without Fiona would be really weird and I don't think I'd watch it very long. I say 'a little pissed' because it would suck for the crew and other actors to lose out on jobs I imagine most of them want to keep, all over Rossum refusing the original deal if not offered more. But then again shows end all the time for all sorts of dumb rear end reasons, so it's really no big deal in the grand scheme of things. esperterra fucked around with this message at 10:07 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 09:59
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Vanderdeath posted:So, uh, where are you pulling this information from because I don't see anything remotely coming close to what you're talking about. Also, let's not forget, while Macy is a known actor he's not some big deal superstar. Whether or not you like the character, Fiona has pretty much been the main character for a good four to five seasons. This is the article you should read: https://www.google.com.au/amp/deadl.../?client=safari
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Dec 13, 2016 12:26
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It's not like the parity rule is a law. Also, the shows discussed in that article are ensemble shows where the leads really do split the show's focus and carry the storylines equally. I don't think the distribution of responsibility on Friends or The Big Bang Theory or Grey's Anatomy is comparable to what it is on Shameless.
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Dec 13, 2016 14:24
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It also seems like a bullshit way for studios to save money, and it's asinine that it only comes into effect when someone becomes a breakout star. "Of course Rossum shouldn't have made as much as Macy, he was an established name! But now she shouldn't make more than him because that would be unfair!" Like, if the goal of parity is equal pay, then it should be equal pay from the start. It seems pretty convenient for the studio to set up a scenario where they hook a big star to launch a show then cry about fairness and greed when another one of their stars is in a position to get more money. This also doesn't invalidate my point about how this is equal pay plus compensation for seven seasons of unequal pay. Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 18:26 on Dec 13, 2016 |
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Dec 13, 2016 18:17
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Isn't Friends a crappy example to use? The cast banded together themselves to demand equal pay, and in the end it gave them ridiculous negotiating power.
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Dec 13, 2016 19:42
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I'm glad Monica is dead. gently caress her.
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Dec 13, 2016 19:50
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Holyshoot posted:I'm glad Monica is dead. gently caress her.
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Dec 13, 2016 19:53
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Holyshoot posted:I'm glad Monica is dead. gently caress her. With the post above yours I thought your memory of Friends' ending was very different than mine
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Dec 13, 2016 19:53
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Henchman of Santa posted:With the post above yours I thought your memory of Friends' ending was very different than mine 
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Dec 13, 2016 19:55
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Henchman of Santa posted:With the post above yours I thought your memory of Friends' ending was very different than mine 
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Dec 13, 2016 20:50
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https://twitter.com/emmyrossum/status/809090828031250433
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Dec 14, 2016 22:19
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So who caved?
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Dec 14, 2016 22:47
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Holyshoot posted:So who caved? Showtime
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Dec 14, 2016 23:56
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Thank loving Christ. I love shameless so much. I hope when they do eventually decide to end the series they do so from the beginning of the final season, so that they have a chance to plot out a proper ending.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:12
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 Glad we're not getting a series finale this Sunday.
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Dec 15, 2016 04:25
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GobiasIndustries posted:
Agreed 100%, though if it had to end this year it's a great season to do it on. Everyone has or is getting their poo poo together, hell even Frank may get less of a hard time from the kids for a while. I'm sure half of that will fall apart in the finale, but y'know. Maybe they'll end on a high note this year and let poo poo fall apart next. But I'm more than happy to get more seasons. Hopefully they can keep the quality up!
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Dec 15, 2016 04:42
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Thank God. Here's hoping Shameless beats Showtime's season 8 curse and has an excellent season next year.
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Dec 15, 2016 10:08
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It already broke the seasons three and four curses, so our odds are good.
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Dec 15, 2016 11:37
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esperterra posted:It already broke the seasons three and four curses, so our odds are good. Dexter wasn't that bad iirc in season 3 and 4. It fell off the rails after the john lithgow season.
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Dec 15, 2016 14:50
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Holyshoot posted:Dexter wasn't that bad iirc in season 3 and 4. It fell off the rails after the john lithgow season. Season 3 was super meh.
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Dec 15, 2016 15:00
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Holyshoot posted:Dexter wasn't that bad iirc in season 3 and 4. It fell off the rails after the john lithgow season. I mean the curse of most Showtime shows only being good up through the third or fourth season. They typically go bad after that, or at least take a hefty nosedive in quality.
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Dec 15, 2016 20:33
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MiddleOne posted:Season 3 was super meh. 4, however, was the best the show had to offer in my opinion. Dark even by Shameless standards.
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Dec 16, 2016 00:23
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Can someone more familiar with Dementia educate me. When Etta thinks Fiona is "Susan" or someone, and then the other family members come in and say "Hey Fiona" like 6 times, is it normal for the Dementia person to not flinch or is it just TV magic?
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Dec 16, 2016 01:42
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Looten Plunder posted:Can someone more familiar with Dementia educate me. When Etta thinks Fiona is "Susan" or someone, and then the other family members come in and say "Hey Fiona" like 6 times, is it normal for the Dementia person to not flinch or is it just TV magic? It's TV. Etta is lucid or totally gone as needed.
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Dec 16, 2016 01:46
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It's mostly TV magic, but my grandma suffered from dementia and she would 'reset' after a couple minutes of talking to her when things got really bad. We would have the same conversation like, 4-5 times over the course of a 10 minute phone conversation. Sometimes she'd get really agitated when people would visit her but a few minutes after we'd get her calmed down she'd loop right back to the same talking points and questions. Not often, but quite a few times she would ask where my grandpa was (he died two years before her, which really triggered her downward mental spiral). Dementia really sucks 
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Dec 16, 2016 02:11
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I've been marathoning this the last week or so. Just started season 3. This show is great, even when it's dumb the characters are just so charismatic I can't stop watching.
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Dec 16, 2016 06:45
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I'm really gonna miss (e: spoiler for the newbie posting above me) Mickey. Probably my favorite Shameless moment ever was when he & Debbie thought they killed Sammi.
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Dec 16, 2016 08:47
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Oliver Reed posted:4, however, was the best the show had to offer in my opinion. Dark even by Shameless standards. I agree, though I have seen a lot of people who are of the opinion that it was actually more of a mediocre season propped up by John Lithgow's absolutely brilliant performance. edit: Sorry for any confusion - I'm talking about Dexter, I thought you were to since that's what the guy you replied to was talking about (I think). BreakAtmo fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Dec 17, 2016 |
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Dec 17, 2016 18:17
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w/r/t Dexter I'm of the mind season three was fine, if a little on the boring side. Still miles ahead of 5-onward. Season four was excellent, but I do think a lot of it was indeed propped up by Lithgow, Hall and Carpenter's performances in many ways. It has some of the issues the later seasons do, but not as bad as when the new showrunner took over with his complete misunderstanding of who Dexter is and what the show was about.
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Dec 17, 2016 21:11
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Season finale tonight. Things that I'm curious about: A) Svetlana, there's got to be some closure with her. I thought it was a bit weird that we didn't see her at all last episode. B) Monica's death and how it impacts the family. Even though she was a horrible person, she was still the kids' mom. C) Ian's job/boyfriend. I'm happy he let Mickey go but he just up and disappeared for a few days, that's gotta have some consequences.
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Dec 18, 2016 23:15
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drat, Fiona. Brutal! That could've passed for a solid series finale. Henchman of Santa fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Dec 19, 2016 |
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Dec 19, 2016 03:45
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Really great season ending and yeah it could have been the series finale but I'm glad for another season. Finale thoughts: Frank is a bastard but William H Macy masterfully makes you empathize with him. I hope Ian and Trevor don't work things out and Ian finds someone new until he reunites with Mickey somehow. I really liked this season's Fiona without relationship baggage. She really grew as a character without boyfriend drama but I still hope she finds someone that makes her happy. Debbie is still annoying. I was hoping for a quick Carl and cop-dad scene. Their relationship was one of the best parts of the season. Not sure where they are going to go with Lip next season but I hope he continues to get his poo poo together.
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Dec 19, 2016 06:04
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That was a very good episode, even if it didn't answer a lot of the questions I had. Emmy Rossum & William H. Macy knocked it out of the loving park, having Carl around was great and Kev is still The Best.
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Dec 19, 2016 06:06
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And they left a hanging thread where Frank can dig up Monica's grave next season.
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Dec 19, 2016 06:27
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