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The Repo Man posted:I really just can't click with this show. I think I'm just worried that it's made exclusively for Japanese otaku, so it will end up being "The Lesbian Adventures of Lesbian Princess and Lesbian Witch."
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Oct 3, 2016 13:49
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1) why is lesbian a proper noun 2) why does a show being built around two female characters having a close relationship instantly make you think Lesbian 3) why do you think they'd make an uncensored shower scene when the scene doesn't even have her breasts or anything in shot for any extended period of time. the shower scene was a little goofy but it showed off her scars which I think was the point more than anything. 4) why is lesbian a proper noun 5) even if the show is about them being lesbians, why is that inherently a bad thing or somehow make its writing less interesting 6) like 'fine must choose between her country and izetta' could very well be a good show, and also intertwine with the politics angle? i don't know why it has to be one or the other. personal stakes can make politics way more compelling. 7) why is lesbian a proper noun 8) there were like two seconds of very mild fanservice across the entire episode, and both of them had other reasons for existing (as mentioned, the shower scene also showed fine's scars, and izetta on the broom was, like, barely even fanservice because so much movement was happening that if you could focus on the fact that you can see her upper thighs, you are way thirstier than I am) 9) why is lesbian a proper noun 10) why is a show about lesbians inherently aimed at otaku, and not, you know, lesbians. or just a general audience. 11) why is lesbian a proper noun
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Oct 3, 2016 13:55
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The Repo Man posted:"The Lesbian Adventures of Lesbian Princess and Lesbian Witch." It might be that, and that could be a perfectly good show if the two leads are well characterized and have good chemistry together - especially if the presentation remains as good and grandiose as the first episode was. I mean, if that's the premise and it's not well executed, or if it's just not your thing then that's obviously fine. I just don't think the premise is inherently schlock like you're kind of implying here. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 14:17
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I think they were just doing title case. Like you wouldn't write "The lesbian of the Rings: Fellowship of the lesbians," but instead "The Lesbian of the Rings: etc." Those flashback scenes gave me a major Nausicaa vibe!! Opening up with a "La la la la la..." flashback and showing Fine protecting Izette from an armed crowd. Edit: Shuumatsu no Izetta: The Princess of Elystadt Sure is Fine. Cephas fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Oct 3, 2016 |
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Oct 3, 2016 15:06
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Davincie posted:there's been excellent ww2 television shows with less episodes than 12 so... First off, Band of Brothers episodes averaged over 60 minutes each, over 620 minutes total - well over double the runtime this gets - as did The Pacific, so saying they merely had 10 episodes is incredibly misleading in that context. Second, there are still gaps in what is happening, as Easy was of course just one unit among an enormous number that were pushing forward across a huge front, and thus many things understandably happened offscreen. I'm also struggling to come up with a war movie that covers the entirety of a conflict - most only cover roughly a single battle or seasonal campaign. In contrast, Izetta is THE most vital military asset they have access to, which means she'll have to be present at basically anything important. The real comparison you're looking for is the Valkyria Chronicles anime, and that's not really a great comparison. Mainly because it was trash - admittedly for many reasons, though lack of time to really get into the characters was certainly one. There's nothing saying Izetta cannot succeed currently, as this was a fairly good start, but telling the entirety of a conflict well, even a rather minor front like this, in 240 minutes, does look a bit dubious.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:36
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I don't see why there's any reason to think Izetta is setting out to tell the entire story of the conflict - the first episode + promo material makes me think she'll primarily be interested in protecting Elystadt and Fine, while Germania is already fighting Britannia and could easily be written into war with Russia and America analogues soon enough. The show could very easily just be about Elystadt basically just hanging on long enough for the allies to repel Germania or for Germania to collapse from within.
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Oct 3, 2016 15:53
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thankfully those aren't the only ww2 series in existence, for example unsere mütter, unsere väter is 3 episodes totalling 270 minutes. i would also never name the pacific or the VC anime as good shows, as they are both horrible. but once again, i would like to repeat: just because a conflict is huge, does not mean the show has to portray all this. its unneeded and nobody sane would make a television show that does that and is not a documentary without an unthinkable amount of episodes. this show will most likely just focus on whatever is going on with the witch, and that is fine. that is good even! most war media picks just one group to follow! what i was responding to with fangz is that he/she basically appears to say that the show HAS to address the greater conflict or that it has to address the entire front, and that this is impossible in 12 episodes. which is just nonsense. it does not have to do that and i can guarantee you it won't. this is in no way a black mark against the show and its a weird thing to get concerned about when there have been countless examples of war media that have shown the way to go already. here's an example of how the show could go 'izetta keeps the enemy at this front busy, britannia invades germania making germania pull out troops from this front, britannia wins, the end'. here you have a simple outline for the show, that does not require it to show any more of the war besides the occasional message from other fronts, something the show already did by showing glimpses of the invasion while the princess was negotiating
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Oct 3, 2016 16:03
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I mean, Casablanca seemed to do okay for itself and that was a whole 102 minutes long. Not to draw to close a parallel between the the two in either tone or quality, obviously, just saying that if Izetta can't tell a good story it won't be primarily for lack of time.
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Oct 3, 2016 16:07
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Spiritus Nox posted:I mean, Casablanca seemed to do okay for itself and that was a whole 102 minutes long. Not to draw to close a parallel between the the two in either tone or quality, obviously, just saying that if Izetta can't tell a good story it won't be primarily for lack of time. If that broomstick leaves the ground and you're not on it, you're gonna regret it. Maybe not today. Maybe not tomorrow, but soon and for the rest of your life. I've got a job to do, too. Where I'm going, you can't follow. What I've got to do, you can't be any part of, Izetta. I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of two little girls don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that.
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Oct 3, 2016 17:39
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Fine is cool and there's not enough yet to make a judgment on Izetta and that's my hot take.
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Oct 3, 2016 18:19
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Endorph posted:1) why is lesbian a proper noun These bother me also.
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Oct 3, 2016 23:56
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we've encountered a pocket of zorak space
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Oct 4, 2016 00:04
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Yeah, my tired posting is extrodinarily bad, so hate away at whatever that was that I posted. I really should have waited until I got home from work today and re-watched the episode rather than after a double shift. Have Japanese studios gotten better at handling gay relationships? I don't really watch much anime any more. I finished One Punch Man not too long ago, am part way into Kiznaiver, and am up to date on Thunderbolt fantasy. That's more than I've watched in a loooing time. The Repo Man fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 00:11
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The Repo Man posted:Yeah, my tired posting is extrodinarily bad, so hate away at whatever that was that I posted. I really should have waited until I got home from work today and re-watched the episode rather than after a double shift. Tired or not, I definitely feel that your posts earlier were in fact hugely inappropriate and born out of ignorance, but that doesn't mean this can't be a learning experience for you. Please consider your opinions more thoroughly if you wish to continue down this path.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:22
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Most gay shows I've seen still play pretty coy or skirt around making things official in an annoying way, but that aside New Game, Yuru Yuri, Euphonium, and Amanchu are all recent-ish shows that seemed alright about it to me, though it's worth pointing out that I'm a straight dude and those were all way more mundane premises than this thing.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:24
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Haven't seen it, but apparently one of the main characters in HaruChika is explicitly gay.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:27
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It varies. There's some shows that make it explicit and handle it well, there's some that just kind of hint at it and handle it well, and there's some that are very bad about it. The middle one is most common (all the shows nox mentioned are of that variety) but the first one isn't unheard of. Akuma no Riddle is a show where one of the main characters has two dads and she loves them and is happy about her two dads. Granted the two dads are only onscreen for ten seconds total but still, it's a big part of her backstory and is handled well. Painting with one giant brush when it comes to this sort of thing is pretty impossible, because anime is made by people, and people have different opinions, views, and experiences wrt sexuality.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:42
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I think this show doesn't look very good but this thread is a thrilling read. I'm eager to see how opinions shift in the coming weeks.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:52
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Legends of the Galactic Heroes is the most gay-positive animated show from Japan I've seen but its not an anime, its an OVA.
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Oct 4, 2016 00:53
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Pewdiepie posted:Legends of the Galactic Heroes is the most gay-positive animated show from Japan I've seen but its not an anime, its an OVA. 
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Oct 4, 2016 00:55
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I'm pretty sure that by now I've heard LoGH described as the peak of just about everything in all genres other than a slice of life. And still it sits there on my backlog, to be gotten around to...at some point.
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Oct 4, 2016 01:02
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lesbians of gay homos
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Oct 4, 2016 01:05
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Pewdiepie posted:I think this show doesn't look very good but this thread is a thrilling read. I'm eager to see how opinions shift in the coming weeks. If I could go back in time and alter my post, it would read more like this. I thought it was incredibly boring and overly predictable but had great animation and music, especially the final scene. It's only the first episode establishing the characters and setting, so hopefully more actual stuff happens. Pretty sure the Prince Henry thing is going to come back around at least half way through the show. I'll need to see Legends of the Galactic Heroes at some point. I have a huge backlog already, but I watch so little as it is. Matoi Ryuko posted:I definitely feel that your posts earlier were in fact hugely inappropriate Absolutely, I agree.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:29
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The Repo Man posted:If I could go back in time and alter my post, it would read more like this. I admit I was surprised when not just one of her bodyguard dudes died, but both of them. I was fully prepared for one of them to be a main character - a guy who would doubt Izetta or something while Fine's all "no no the witch is cool". But now he's dead. :welp: Also, I concur with checking out LoGH. I've only seen fifty episodes of it myself, but they're drat fine - it's practically a historical novel, if it were set in space.
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Oct 4, 2016 02:32
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i saw one episode of this show and i think it looks good. there were dive bombers and tanks and a three-engine transport aircraft (i think it may have been a ju 52). also there was a girl, who rode an anti-material rifle. did i mention that there were dive bombers? e: do you guys think we'll see a tank destroyer Yaoi Gagarin fucked around with this message at 07:32 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 07:29
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I hope Americans show up at some point.
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Oct 4, 2016 07:49
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I hope Americans show up and get shot
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Oct 4, 2016 08:25
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Sakurazuka posted:I hope Americans show up and get shot Yes please. 
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Oct 4, 2016 08:27
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i like this show because fine is badass also no loving tension are you loving kidding me the staredown on the plane was great
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Oct 4, 2016 12:43
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quote:what i was responding to with fangz is that he/she basically appears to say that the show HAS to address the greater conflict or that it has to address the entire front, and that this is impossible in 12 episodes. which is just nonsense. it does not have to do that and i can guarantee you it won't. this is in no way a black mark against the show and its a weird thing to get concerned about when there have been countless examples of war media that have shown the way to go already. I'm just saying that the opening episode rings alarm bells for me because it does suggest it might go in that direction. Our main characters are a head of state, and their main military asset, an one girl army, and their goal has been set out as 'saving their country'. There's scope to tell small self contained stories in WWII, sure, but this seems very different from most of the better examples. And I don't exactly trust this writer. quote:here's an example of how the show could go 'izetta keeps the enemy at this front busy, britannia invades germania making germania pull out troops from this front, britannia wins, the end'. here you have a simple outline for the show, that does not require it to show any more of the war besides the occasional message from other fronts, something the show already did by showing glimpses of the invasion while the princess was negotiating 'Protagonist keeps enemy busy for 12 episodes then they win due to stuff happening off screen' is an incredibly tedious storyline. Fangz fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Oct 4, 2016 |
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Oct 4, 2016 13:23
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Fangz posted:'Protagonist keeps enemy busy for 12 episodes then they win due to stuff happening off screen' is an incredibly tedious storyline. If you're telling a story set in WW2 there is no scope for individual agency that materially changes the outcome of the entire conflict unless your protagonist is the leader of a major power or Izetta learns the ancient witch art of nuclear weaponry or something. I suppose you could contrive a scenario where the characters sabotaged a German superweapon or assassinated the Emperor but it would be kind of goofy. Fundamentally the story of being an anti-Axis minor power during WW2 is offering heroic guerrilla resistance to the extent of your populace's inclination and ability and then 'they win due to stuff happening off screen' as the US and Russia roll Germany up. After that then you get occupied and controlled by Russia depending on your geographic location.
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Oct 4, 2016 13:50
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The setting of an inland European country is chosen well, so they don't have to take the Pacific theatre into account.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:52
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nielsm posted:The setting of an inland European country is chosen well, so they don't have to take the Pacific theatre into account. I don't think that the setting of a coastal European country—bordering the Atlantic Ocean—would have any more to do with the Pacific theatre.
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Oct 4, 2016 14:56
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Space Flower posted:I don't think that the setting of a coastal European country—bordering the Atlantic Ocean—would have any more to do with the Pacific theatre. ...The other allies fought Japan too, right? I seem to recall Japan invaded Russia at one point and got spanked, and I would assume Austrailia and other Pacific British colonies would be involved in that front at least a bit.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:00
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In terms of scope I think they could use Finland as an example. A nation defending against their drastically more powerful neighbor that isn't a member of either major alliance but just trying to hold out against invasion.
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Oct 4, 2016 15:57
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Spiritus Nox posted:...The other allies fought Japan too, right? I seem to recall Japan invaded Russia at one point and got spanked, and I would assume Austrailia and other Pacific British colonies would be involved in that front at least a bit. Japan never fought Russia until the very end of the war when Stalin invaded Manchuria after the Potsdam Agreement. This was actually very important for the Soviet Union because Japan's neutrality agreement with them prior to that point let them pull forces from the border with China and reinforce the crumbling frontlines against Germany. Commonwealth forces had some involvement in the Pacific but outside Britain no European country would have any interest in that theatre until Germany was defeated. The actual significance of Fine's country being landlocked is that there's no plausible way Britain can project force there, so she and her people are on their own until 1944.
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Oct 4, 2016 19:56
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I just got around to watching this, and I enjoyed the first episode enough to give it a shot. One of the things I think you're all missing about the length is that this is very clearly not going to be a 1:1 representation of WW2. That would be kind of stupid. This is a war with any number of possible outcomes whose length and even scope isn't even close to decided just because something in our history had similar circumstances. I mean, they haven't even vaguely hinted at a Pacific front from what I can tell. For all we know, the Britannians could be landing at not-Normandie within the week somehow. Also I think it might be a sign I've been playing too much EU4 that I am now intensely curious about the history of this world and how everything ended up like this. Hopefully it'll at least kind of get into that at some point. AnoHito fucked around with this message at 11:36 on Oct 5, 2016 |
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Oct 5, 2016 11:33
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Lestaki posted:Japan never fought Russia until the very end of the war when Stalin invaded Manchuria after the Potsdam Agreement. This was actually very important for the Soviet Union because Japan's neutrality agreement with them prior to that point let them pull forces from the border with China and reinforce the crumbling frontlines against Germany. Commonwealth forces had some involvement in the Pacific but outside Britain no European country would have any interest in that theatre until Germany was defeated. the only reason there was a neutrality agreement was because the red army kicked the ija out of mongolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol and quite frankly, all the better for imperial japan, because it ended the ambitions of the idiots who wanted to conquer thousands of miles of worthless steppe instead of focusing resources towards conquering valuable territory* *not so good for the people living in the valuable territory
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Oct 5, 2016 11:50
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Phobophilia posted:the only reason there was a neutrality agreement was because the red army kicked the ija out of mongolia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battles_of_Khalkhin_Gol I stand corrected. Hopefully we'll get some passing reference to Russia since it'd be pretty interesting to know what's going on there in this history, though to judge by the absence of exposition on their role in the partition of Poland they aren't going to be very important.
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Oct 5, 2016 12:24
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a kitten posted:
Kiki's Delivery Service just took a rather thematic shift.
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Oct 5, 2016 13:29
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