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I can't think of a more perfect way to introduce her
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Oct 11, 2016 01:08
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Chokes McGee posted:"Dinah this is my friend, Captain Lance, Time Lesbian" Sarah is a time bisexual.
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Apr 15, 2017 23:52
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"
face*
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nooneofconsequence posted:She's a contemporary bisexual. When she's out in time it's ladies only. she kissed Snart while in the future just last season
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Apr 16, 2017 01:53
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Time travel is how you get to the future. But no seriously, it's important to me that Sarah is bi. Characters like her being on TV make me more comfortable in myself, even if the way the show handles her is kinda tropey and they go for the pandering a bit much. But this isn't the LoT thread.
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Apr 16, 2017 03:29
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nooneofconsequence posted:But Smart is not from the future. He's her contemporary. Whenever she's loving throughout out time ( Louis IXs wife, 50s nurse, all of the Salem women, queen Guinnevere) there's a clear pattern. Dangit, let Sarah be bi 
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Apr 16, 2017 20:30
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what have I done
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Apr 17, 2017 20:55
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Senerio posted:Honestly it's quite a lovely situation all around, because even if tumblr had a legit point at the beginning (I could see where they were coming from, honestly, even if I disagree with them), their overreacting has basically just turned them into a thing of mockery outside their little echo chambers. His apology was that typical sort of "I'm sorry if you were offended" bullhockey and Benoist's publicist threatened to sue someone. I'm not sure where the fans are coming off worse here. Also, source on the Chris Wood death threats thing?
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Jul 24, 2017 21:41
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STAC Goat posted:I don't know what he has to apologize for. If there's no actual subtext or story there then there isn't. That's not a matter of debate. The author is not dead. The people making the show know whether or not they intended to imply that Lena and Kara are into each other. If they say "no" then the answer is "no." The difference is in how they talked about it. Jordan was openly mocking towards the very idea of it, while in contrast Katy McGrath was pretty level headed and said that people are perfectly justified in looking at it however they want. Every attempt to get in front of it on the rest of the cast's part has been embarrassing and kind of gross and made this bigger than it needs to be. I mean, Benoist's publicist said "she couldn't be homophobic because she was on Glee". That's embarrassingly patronizing.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:53
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I'm going to be honest. The whole song and dance thing was based on the very idea that pairing them up was creepy and weird. This wasn't some Supernatural-esque thing where people became unhealthily fixated on the actors and stalked and harassed their real life significant others and poo poo. It was all hinged on mocking a subset of their audience, who aren't really hurting anyone by existing and writing their little stories, and then when it was pointed out the man made it worse, and a major member of the cast's publicist threatened to sue someone over internet comments. Like, where in this specific scenario does the fandom come off look like the bullies here?
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Jul 24, 2017 22:06
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STAC Goat posted:I'm sorry, I just don't get it. I'm a straight guy so maybe I'm missing something. I just didn't see anything mean or disrespectful in there. I mean, Jordan made a little light of the fan theory. But that's not like mocking LGBT people or anything. Its mocking an (apparently) incorrect fan theory that got (arguably) carried away. You're acting like everyone with a ship, who likes a ship, or who writes a ship is someone pulling for a series to do that and is going to get militant when it doesn't go that way. Maybe it could have reached that point eventually, but as it stands, it was just people who were either enjoying Kara and Lena's chemistry and/or those who were frustrated with Kara/Mon-El and were looking at an alternative. What exactly there is worth disrespect and mockery? Hell, I've seen people comment on how Kara and Lena get on really well in this very thread. Maybe there's a few people who take it too far, but honestly? That's every god drat fandom that has a decent sized group of people in it. Writing a song and performing it in front of an audience of a ton of people, and then having your co-star commend you for how "brave" you are, is hitting low hanging fruit, especially when you've tried to pass yourself off as an ally to a specific group of people beforehand.
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Jul 24, 2017 22:21
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I'm still trying to find a source on that.
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Jul 25, 2017 00:47
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howe_sam posted:in no small part because Benoist and Wood have ooodles of chemistry as well. Ehhhhh. *Middling hand motion*
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Jul 25, 2017 01:03
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It's not the answer so much as the way it was framed as mockery, and the way they kept falling over themselves afterward.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:15
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STAC Goat posted:I get that a bit about the "she was on Glee" thing but not the actual video. Is singing a silly song and making a joke really that disrespectful to a silly shipping thing? Am I just missing the appropriate respect due to online shipping on tumblr? The song itself is both condescending on its own, but it's also followed by Benoist calling it "very brave" to take the ship down, followed by: quote:Wood then sarcastically added: “Sexuality is all about others’ perception of yours, right?” Like... what purpose does that even serve? They aren't real people. This isn't hurting anyone at all.
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Jul 25, 2017 01:34
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Fan-fiction writers and fanzine creators helped create fandom as we know it today, but sure, whatever, they're all crazy people.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:08
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It's actually a completely harmless activity that hurts no one! Amazing. Edit - But no seriously, any fandom activity has the capacity to turn into poo poo. None of it is inherently weird or wrong. Writing fan material is no more inherently weird or non-constructive than, say, posting on forums or buying and customizing toys. Maybe some shippers take it too far, but I've seen just as much pointless cruelty and non-constructive behavior from people who never touch doing creative stuff. Every aspect of fandom culture has the capacity to turn into something weird, cruel, or embarrassing. Call out the stupid when it arises but there's nothing inherently wrong with people who like to write stories about Kirk and Spock kissing and whatnot. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 13:43 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 13:23
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Soothing Vapors posted:Sorry, but humanity as a whole is diminished by tumblr brokebrains churning out Supernatural incest fanfiction Humanity as a whole is diminished by the use of the word "brokebrain" and other poo poo like it, so. Yeah. All things being equal and whatnot. Lord Packinham posted:Does CW have a bad track record with LGBT characters? Is that why people got so upset? Well, there's poo poo like what happened with the 100, for one, and when Arrow killed Sara in season 3 they had to walk it back significantly due to the backlash.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:33
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They could have still done a lot of other things than resort to the dead lesbian trope. Like, even Rothenberg apologized for how it was handled and his own behavior regarding it, so it's not like you need to defend the show on this one.
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Jul 25, 2017 16:40
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Xelkelvos posted:I'm sure there's a line and the loudest and most standout portions of fandom are probably over the line especially since part of that line is the self-declaration of being part of the fandom versus merely being a fan. I'm not sure why considering oneself as being part of a fandom is itself a bad thing. But, like, a lot of the earliest fanfiction authors were women who wrote Kirk and Spock fanfiction. Those same people were a big part of what initiated Trek fan culture and helped get the show back on the air. Various Trek actors have expressed being fine with it, and actors and authors of many other works simply think it's okay for people to explore aspects of themselves or their appreciation through fan works. Mark Hamill both accepts and encourages people to interpret, write, or imagine Luke Skywalker as gay, trans, or whatever someone wants him to be. Obviously you're going to get people who get way too invested, people who take it too far, people who tear into other fans and creators over stupid poo poo. But that's true of any primarily on-line interaction where people encounter something they don't like. People will tear each other apart over their opinions on video games, music. This is a forum where you can spend real money to vandalize someone's custom title when one gets angry about someone else's shitposting. Not really a group of people justified in sitting in judgement. As for the Supernatural example someone else posted earlier, one thing I forgot to say - the creators and actors both of that show simultaneously fed into all of that and encouraged and pandered to it while simultaneously complaining it. That fandom was a monster of their own making.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:37
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That's a nice picture of Judge Dredd, thank you.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:52
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I'm saying it's a fundamentally harmless experience that can be ruined by people being idiots, just like everything else, and people should just be left to their own devices and not be made fun of when they're not hurting anybody.
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Jul 25, 2017 20:56
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Soothing Vapors posted:In addition to the aforementioned dilution of the human experience, when they start screeching nonstop abuse at actors on twitter who poked fun at their ship it's hard to argue that no harm is being done. Also, please post your fanfics, I know you have them. Aaaand now we're back to square one, where taking issue with something and getting angry and expressing criticism is the problem, and apparently constitutes abuse. "Making fun" of something was never the problem, it was how they went about it.
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Jul 25, 2017 21:12
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Shakespeare wrote some very influential RPF about Julius Caesar.
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Jul 25, 2017 22:04
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I'm talking about the ur days of fandom, and how women who were into Star Trek were some of the first to commiserate and share their interests and work as well as help get the show to be successful in syndication. There's problems with modern fans, yes, but there's also problems with every human endeavor that inevitably crop up when you add more people to it, and treating all members of said group as a monolith and everything they're interested in or spend their time on as ultimately destructive and bad misses the point of why these issues crop up and proliferate. Like BrianWilly said, no one here is in any position to sit in condemnation of poo poo like this, given Something Awful is full of people being terrible to each other over freaking message board posts. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 10:37 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 10:33
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irlZaphod posted:Fandom today is a lot different from the halcyon days when Bjo Trimble saved Star Trek from cancellation. I never said it wasn't. Point is slash fans saved Star Trek. The fact that there are still people like that has zero to do with why fandom is sometimes terrible. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 11:49
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Squashing Machine posted:Actually, I think I am, because I'm not an entitled baby who throws their toys out of the crib at the first sign that the people who make the media I like aren't listening to my terrible ideas. Abusing the people who make the TV, movies, video games, books, and so on that you like is a good way to get them to stop listening to you forever, and I hope creators start doing that sooner rather than later That goes back to the thing I said about treating people like a monolith, because 1) it assumes all people who write poo poo or have a ship are abusive to creators, and 2) assumes that the people who are mad about this are universally abusive to creators and that they're only coming from this from a place of being angry that "their ship" isn't canon, as opposed to being angry about the disrespectful way they went about it. It also ignores the completely different levels of agency that actors and writers have verses fans, and there's NOTHING that's been done here that's affected their lives negatively that they didn't choose to join in on themselves. What level of harassment do you honestly think is going to affect Melissa Benoist's and Jeremy Jordan's lives? This is going to stop being news in, like, a couple weeks. They're more than likely not going to be afraid to leave their homes like the individuals harassed by actual hate movements like GamerGate. This is, at worst, a minor bit of bad publicity. Let's be real. They haven't really suffered much, if at all, as a result of this. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 15:57
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STAC Goat posted:I just kind of feel like people should make peace with some light mocking of their weird hobbies. It don't hurt any more than the actors are hurt. Everyone has weird hobbies. You don't have to stop if you really don't want to. But it's a little weird (or at least seems weird to people outside that sphere) so learning to take a little harmless joking builds character. Dude, at not even erotic can material we're talking about here. The very idea that anyone would like that pairing more than Kara and Mon-El was treated as patently absurd, and Benoist called Jordan brave for standing up to it, and then Wood made a dumbass statement about how people treat sexuality as being about "other people's perception of you", as if Kara, Lena, and Mon-El were somehow real people and not fictional characters. Katie McGrath even saw this and all but told her colleagues to stop. So I think that they're terrible people who deserve to never act again and that the show needs to crash and burn? No. But yes, it was stupid and disrespectful. The other stuff about fanfiction and shipping and whether that hurts anybody got attached as the conversation went on because obviously these people must all do this so hell let's condemn that too. So I defended it. But in the end, it's not even about a ship, it's how they chose to discuss it. This isn't even about a hobby for some people, it's sometimes LGBT fans who like to imagine the star of the show (as opposed to someone who's a sidekickinf) they like having an experience of feelings similar to theirs. Which wasn't "good natured ribbing". It was moronic. They don't have to make the pairing canon, they just shouldn't make people think the actors and staff think they're stupid just for having the idea in their heads. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 16:29
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I think you mean well Aleph, but your point is kind of undermined by using the most absurd example possible and one that involves REAL PEOPLE and not fictional characters. I also kind of doubt than an actor on Glee doesn't understand what "shipping" is. And it wasn't someone walking up to them. Jordan started singing it on his own during the panel's recap of season 2. Are you telling me Winn's actor has extensive interaction with people who are invested in the lives of two characters that have nothing to do with his beyond being his friends?come on. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 16:40
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Squashing Machine posted:I agree, absolutely never has someone who worked on a show or movie or whatever had to disable their social media or disengage from the fans because of the pure amount of bullshit they had to put up with. They're asking for it, really! The feelings that really need protecting are those of random weirdos on the internet who ship Barney Rubble and Fred Flintstone, I saw the looks they were giving each other in that one Fruity Pebbles ad and if you tell me I'm being unreasonable I'll bring a branch to your jaw, buckaroo That has happened before. I see nothing to indicate it's happened here, and everytime I've asked for it or searched for a meaningful example of any of them having their lives disrupted by it, I haven't found anything. When that line has been crossed, absolutely, that's a problem, but it hasn't here at all. The only thing even remotely close to that is Benoist's publicist implicitly threatening litigation to a fan whose life actually would be destroyed if that actually happened. It happening in other instances doesn't mean that it applies to ALL situations that arise. In fact, as of this writing, it even looks like Jeremy Jordan's instagram has more than moved on. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 16:55
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STAC Goat posted:But... the Supergirl showrunners/cast didn't do or say anything about any lesbian characters. They didn't kill off the lesbian romance or character or over hype their importance or something. A bunch of fans fantasized about straight characters being lesbians and then a bunch of people in the show randomly said "No, they're clearly not. That's weird that some people think they are." You're oversimplifying it. First of all, why is imagining that two characters who have good chemistry may like each other, especially if you're gay yourself and dissatisfied with how clumsy and Mon-El and Kara are written, weird? Why is that worth mockery? Next, why did Benoist call that brave? What the hell is brave about "standing up" to a group of primarily LGBT people? And then there's what happens next. Let's give Jordan and Benoist a benefit of a doubt. Chris Wood then says "Sexuality is about how other people perceive you and not how you identify." In what universe is that not going to not be extremely uncomfortable to people who struggle with acceptance about who they are. Even if shippers had hounded and driven people off social media that would be a dumb, pigheaded statement that people would rightly call out.
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Jul 27, 2017 17:11
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STAC Goat posted:I don't think anyone's mentally ill. I mean, someone involved probably is, but I'm not making any kind of sweeping claim of that. This is coming from my own experience, but when I came out as bisexual to my father, he more or less told me that he didn't see me that way, that because I'd never been with or dated a guy, he wasn't sure if he believed me or if I was just looking for attention. Using that non-seriously doesn't magically make it not insulting. The joke is still touching on something that LGBT people have to deal with, and it's a painful thing that shouldn't be part of something like this. Sarcasm doesn't serve as a magic bandaid that removes all that. EDIT - Aleph, it's not about pet theories. I'm not naive, there probably are people who are over invested in Lena/Kara. But some people are just living vicariously through this because they like to imagine the star of the show is like them. Key word: Imagine. Project. Live vicariously through. It makes them happy because it's rare the main character is someone like them. These people may very well know it's never going to happen, but they at least felt that it was okay to have it in mind. And then this comes along... and that's apparently a big loving joke to the people bringing these characters to life. People who are constantly bombarded with "light ribbing", not just about ships or whatever stupid fandom thing, but about who they are. It builds up. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 17:26
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That's the thing. "Intent" isn't really a bandaid either, and it doesn't excuse things in the same way "I'm sorry if you were offended" isn't a real apology, because it removes responsibility for the fall out. Most of these situations happen without the intention of malice, but in the end their effects are still the same. They should have just apologized. People ARE allowed to gently caress up, at least in my book. At least Jordan said he was willing to learn. Squashing Machine posted:Creators are not responsible for the feelings of their audience, and they have no moral duty to do the things you want them to. If a joke made in a random interview on the internet is enough to shake your identity to its core, then maybe, just maybe, you're the one being unreasonable and not the person whose job it is to portray a space alien who punches other space aliens in the face The SG creators have made a point that they want to be seen as progressive. They've used the "feelings" of the people watching their show to promote it. They hitched their wagon to the train of the LGBT and feminist portions of their fanbase on their own. They don't get to profit off people's good will and then say those same people don't matter when they do something hurtful. Nodosaur fucked around with this message at 17:57 on Jul 27, 2017 |
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Jul 27, 2017 17:47
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Aleph Null posted:Maybe they just don't give a single gently caress about shippers? If they didn't, this wouldn't have happened. STAC Goat posted:Intent shouldn't be an excuse, but it can certainly matter as context. Mon El should apologize for offending people, but the people he should apologize to should also recognize that he didn't mean to offend them. Understanding is a two way street. That's different from like "I'm sorry if you were offended I used a slur, but I'm going to do it again." I'm sorry but... "understanding is a two way street" is predicated on the idea that both positions are equal. "I didn't mean to" doesn't really acknowledge responsibility, it's another way of pushing the responsibility off of the person who said it. It doesn't put it on the person who was offended, but IT does make it sound like it was out of the person who said it's control, and I don't think that does enough to make them analyze or confront their behavior. But then I guess that's anecdotal too, based on people I know who've made similar statements and not changed. I've struggled with it myself. Soothing Vapors posted:Shippers are currently hijacking a post on Benoist's twitter about Trump's military transgender ban in order to refocus it on what is truly important: themselves. It's majestic I will agree this is a bit ridiculous. Not the time or place.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:11
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Squashing Machine posted:It's extremely healthy to demand apologies from people every third time they say anything anywhere, and to get huffy if they don't comply. How dare they not apologize to me, the person who can't regulate their thoughts and reactions long enough to get through a five minute youtube video Yes. They said "anything". Their words are meaningless. Noise and air escaped from their vocal maw devoid of meaning and context, and I want them to apologize to me, myself, and no one else, and I am not capable of empathy or solidarity with people who were perturbed by the non-words escaping from their noise holes. You've got me, dude.
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Jul 27, 2017 18:15
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Rocksicles posted:Frustrated Artists have shows, meaningless sex, friends. And now we've hit rock bottom.
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Jul 28, 2017 13:20
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This is old news to people, but re: that business in the summer about the crew's behavior at Comic-Con, and how hyper defensive I was of things... I'm looking back on it now and I definitely didn't pay attention to the whole of the issue, or what people were saying. I still think some of what the crew did was kind of cringeworthy, but there was definitely a lot of overblown and downright shameful reactions on the fans' side and I was either blind to, willfully ignorant, or just pain unaware of. All in all, while Supergirl is not a perfect show and its cast and crew aren't perfect about issues, it's still not justification for a lot of what went on, what continues to go on, and how some fans acted. I can sympathize with some of the people demoralized by it, it went too far.
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Jan 22, 2018 02:44
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