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  • Locked thread
Cangelosi
Nov 16, 2004

"It's cute," he said to himself warily, "but it's not normal."


Fabulousvillain posted:

I immediately thought of Peko, but Fuyuhiko brought up changing clothes. Although I guess it's far fetched to think of someone leaving the beach house covered in blood to find a place to change clothes.

That is true, especially considering the front door was blocked by the dead body.

...wait, how many exits does the beach house have again?

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Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Cangelosi posted:

That is true, especially considering the front door was blocked by the dead body.

...wait, how many exits does the beach house have again?

Three. There is the door leading onto the paved patch, the door leading onto the sand of the beach, and the barred window far too high up for anyone to reach on their own and of which it would be exceptionally difficult to replace the bars on the inside from the outside, so that one doesn't count.

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator





Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Three. There is the door leading onto the paved patch, the door leading onto the sand of the beach, and the barred window far too high up for anyone to reach on their own and of which it would be exceptionally difficult to replace the bars on the inside from the outside, so that one doesn't count.

Hang on, how did the killer get out of the beach house then without leaving any footprints?

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Rarity posted:

Hang on, how did the killer get out of the beach house then without leaving any footprints?

Exactly! That's why it's a mystery!

The answer is really stupid.

dancingbears
May 10, 2011

You're an idiot,
so start acting
like one.



Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

[the barred window...] it would be exceptionally difficult to replace the bars on the inside from the outside, so that one doesn't count.

FPzero posted:

: Let's see... Hmmm... I see, I see... So that's what happened.
: ...D-Did you find anything?
: Well, since there's this iron bar... I was pretty sure no one would be able to get through the window... But check it out.
: Ch-Check it out...? Hold on...I'll give it a try...

With Akane on my shoulders, I craned my neck so high that I started to worry...



: This iron bar ain't even pinned down. Looks like you can open and close it pretty easy. See? My head can fit through, no problem.
: Then...it's not impossible to go in and out of that window?
: Yep yep...!

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Click here to watch this update's video!







: I'm Monomi! And my heart is throbbing like crazy right now!
: To think that the person who killed the wonderful Mahiru Koizumi is in this room...
: Impossible! Impossible! That's so impossible! There's no way I can believe that!
: Ugh... I can't do anything, how annoying... But I'm just gonna believe in everyone, that's the least I can do...



: Everyone do your best! Don't lose to yourselves! And don't forget to save regularly!





: Well, now that we've decided to believe Hiyoko...now what?
: If the killer was luring Hiyoko into a trap, then something that was used there might be a clue.
: Do you mean the letter?
: ...No, it was probably the gummy.
: Huh? Candy can be a clue?



: Hey, when you woke up, was the gummy already there?
: Ah, now that you mention it...I feel like it wasn't...
: ...Just as I thought.
: ...Just as you thought?



: If the killer planted evidence while Hiyoko was there, she would've thrown it away if she found it.
: Which means...the gummy was placed inside the closet after Hiyoko fled from the beach house?
: The killer returned to the scene of the crime? After I left?



: They wouldn't have to do something that troublesome as long as they hid somewhere within the beach house.
: That's impossible! There's nowhere to hide!
: I even glanced inside the shower room as I was running away...but there was nobody there!
: Then...does that mean the killer came back?
: Hmm, I wonder...
: At any rate, the solution to that problem is connected to what really happened... That's what I think.





She's right... This might be a very important problem. If the killer tampered with the evidence after Hiyoko ran away from the beach house... When did the killer arrive and depart from the beach house?

: ...



Think...

If I just focus and think about it, I'm sure I'll be able to find the answer.

All right, I'm going to do it!




: I want to play a new game... Is that what you're thinking? If so, we've prepared the perfect product for you. You will dive into your own brain and logically discern the mysterious answer from several questions... It's called the Logic Dive.
: During the Logic Dive, you will control a version of yourself created from an image within your brain... Your task is to reach the goal, the final destination of the synapse course. There will be various obstacles you will encounter as you progress through the course. On your journey, you will take damage every time you fall into a gap or bump into walls. Also, upon reaching a certain point, there will be branching questions in the course. The answers split into different paths so please proceed down the path of the answer you think is correct. Branching questions will appear several times in one course. Please be careful. I highly recommend that you make good use of the brake... That's my meddlesome advice to you. Well then...good luck and have fun!
: Logic Dive is another brand new minigame and I think it's pretty good overall. Nothing amazing but it's functional and doesn't suck to play like Hangman's Gambit.









: Logic Dive is kind of like a Sonic 2 special stage in execution and control. You're constantly moving downwards around a cylindrical tube. The main difference is that there are holes in the course you have to avoid instead of spike balls. I recommend watching the video to see what the minigame looks like since it's constantly moving.



: It is possible to accelerate and brake while moving so while you are always moving forward you can affect your rate of descent.



: Moving over a yellow pad will give you a big speed boost that wears off after a second.



: You can also jump. I don't recall if jumping is mandatory at any point in the game but it's there and it is affected by your speed.



: This yellow band ahead of us will trigger the first Question. It also acts as a checkpoint if we fall off.





: This one's obvious. The killer had to have been there before Hiyoko because they were able to drug her upon her arrival.



: We're going to move to the blue path. By the way time doesn't stop while you're thinking about the answer. If you're unsure, this is where braking comes in handy since you can slow yourself down and increase the amount of time you have before choosing a path.



> Before Hiyoko arrived

: You'll know you chose the right answer if your path takes you to the next segment of the Dive. You'll also heal a little bit of your Influence Gauge/Life like you would any other time you answer a question correctly in a Trial. Wrong answers will send you into the pit and you'll start back from the beginning of the Question.
: In between Questions you'll have to do more tube navigation. Just avoid the pits and keep moving forward.





: Well considering what we've just discussed, it doesn't make much sense that the killer would have come back to the scene. So they must have left after Hiyoko in order to place the gummy.



> After Hiyoko left



: Blue ramps will cause you to automatically jump. At this stage they're mostly cosmetic and will jump you across gaps.



: Blue walls however are actually dangerous. Don't crash into them or you'll take damage.



: Blue wall setups can get pretty tight so don't be afraid to slow down a little bit.





: If they were on the beach, they would have left footprints at the door when they came into the house. So they must have been inside the beach house somewhere.



> Beach house



: Finally, the rainbow flashing circle signals the end of the Dive.



: The game helpfully gives us a summary of the questions and answers. It's just a coincidence that all of the correct answers were the blue ones.
: So that's Logic Dive. I think it's a pretty ok addition to the game. It'll get a little more complicated and interesting as the game goes on.



: It's all coming together!





: Do you think the killer might've been hiding?
: You spent all that time thinking just to say something so pointless... How disappointing...
: Didn't I just say there was nowhere to hide? Do I have to explain it in another language so you can understand?
: Her personality got a hell of a lot more forceful once she stopped being a suspect!
: No, there should've been a place for them to hide. A place you didn't look, Hiyoko.
: Wh-What are you saying? Stop being annoying or I'm gonna make Akane bop you on the head and shut you up for good.

I...really don't want that to happen to me. I need to answer, by any means...



The place where the killer was hiding... The place where Hiyoko hasn't looked is...






: Hiyoko said she checked the Shower Room and no one was there. The only other place could be...

> Select the Closet

: Full disclosure, on my first playthrough I clicked the refrigerator. I have no clue what I was thinking...



: The killer was probably hiding in the closet.
: The closet...? That's where I was locked up!
: After you woke up, you said you rushed out of there, right? Then...you probably didn't look inside the closet very carefully.
: But could two people even hide in such a small place? And without Hiyoko knowing?
: That's why the killer made sure to arrange a hiding place.



If the killer made sure to arrange a hiding place in advance... I...can only think of one place. That's right, the place where the killer was hiding inside the closet was...





: This one could be a little tricky since we didn't get anything other than flavor text when we examined the shelf here. But if you think about it there's really nowhere else someone would be able to hide.

> Select the surfboard case





: What about the surfboard case in the closet? I'm pretty sure they could have hidden in there.
: Huh? Inside the surfboard case?
: But the shelf it was on...it was pretty messy, don't you think?



: Two surfboards were stacked on the top shelf...and there were surfboards that weren't even in a case. The killer probably did that on purpose to secure a hiding place. Cuz we haven't been on this island that long, so the closet shouldn't have been that messy...I think.



: Then...the killer was close to me during that time?





: Yeah...they were quietly holding their breath and hiding very close to you.
: It's kinda like "In for a penny, in for a pound", so to speak.
: Don't you mean..."It's always darkest under the lighthouse"?
: Tahaa! I shouldn't say things I don't understand, like "so to speak"!
: A-Anyway...the killer hid silently, and after making sure Hiyoko left... They finally left the surfboard case.





: I agree with that as well!
: Seriously, nobody asked what you think...
: There's no way the killer would leave Hiyoko by herself if they were trying to frame her.
: If Hiyoko was left alone and ruined the evidence the killer had planted, it would've messed up their plan...
: Instead, it makes more sense to think that the killer was hiding in the beach house, watching Hiyoko!



: Sayin' whatever ya want even if we didn't ask...
: All right, if ya don't wanna friggin' get punched, just stand still and lemme punch ya!
: ...
: Oh you've shut up. Then...grit your teeth...!

Music cuts out.

: Sorry Akane, it's not like that...





: Hey Monokuma...can I ask you about something that seems strange to me?
: I believe Prince Shotoku was from the future. A man from the future is always directing the flow of history.
: I'll listen to your story about men from the future some other time...



: As I recall, the body discovery annoucement is made when three or more people discover a body, right? Is the killer also included...among those three or more people?
: Y-Yeah...that's true but... Well...something like that...is basically what it's supposed to be...
: ...You don't sound very articulate.
: ...
: Jeez! You're pretty annoying for noticing something like that!



: I know it sounds like an excuse, but the body discovery announcement isn't supposed to be used for deduction! It's intended to create a fair trial... It's supposed to let everyone know a body has been found.
: So you're saying it's unfortunate that I used it for deduction? I understand your excuse but...
: Depending on who actually found the body, it's possible that your "three or more people" rule could be deadly.



: Well...as long as I keep things ambiguous, I can respond to situations with some flexibility.
: Flexibility, huh...?
: So what about this time? Is it three people including the killer or not?
: ...Jeez. Fine, fine. You want me to say it? It doesn't include the killer this time, okay? ...All done.



: Which means...three people other than the killer discovered Mahiru's body...
: What's...wrong with that?
: Nothing, I just thought it was somewhat strange. More importantly, let's get back to our original topic.
: You're the one who went on a tangent...!





: U-Um...we were just saying the killer was hiding in the surfboard case, right?
: And after Hiyoko ran away, the killer got to enjoy the simple life of destroying evidence...
: However, before we proceed any further...there's something we have to make clear.



: The killer blocked the roadside door with Mahiru's body before Hiyoko ran away, but what about the blood?
: Now that you mention it...that mystery hasn't been solved yet...
: It's going to be all right... If you guys have come this far, I'm sure you can discover that answer, too.



: Now, let's start the argument, shall we?

BlazeEmblem
Jun 8, 2013

Uh oh. Do I use Ariadne thread or Goho-M?



Yes, you need to jump during logic dives in later trials. Some of them can get pretty brutal.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

dancingbears, I didn't say "impossible", I said "exceptionally difficult".


I forgot the surfboard case bit. Anyway, a body discovery announcement happens after three people find a body. We have two: Saionji and Souda. Monobear has grudgingly given up that the killer does not count in this instance, which means that there is a third person who has discovered the body who was not the killer.

MysticalMachineGun
Apr 5, 2005


The killer seems really ruthless this time - sealing yourself in a surfboard case sounds terrifying to me.

I think we'll need to compare people's heights and stuff later, and Yakuza boy looks short enough to fit in one of those cases. Peko looks taller, maybe that rules her out?

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


On the other hand, Fuyuhiko does not strike me as someone with the temperament to stay hidden in a surfboard case long enough to get the job done.

Also Surfboard cases are quite large, the only person who's right out for fitting in them would be Nekomaru. He's just too huge. Akane might have trouble too but I'm not sure of that.

Sonia would also easily fit in there, but the question then becomes: why would she leave a mask only she would know the reference too? A red herring to cast suspicion elsewhere? (Being helpful is a great way to deflect suspicion.)

Hello Ketene
Dec 30, 2011


My money's still on Akane despite Peko being the most straightforward option. She intentionally got into a fight with Nekomaru to get blood all over her before killing Mahiru, she set up three clues to misdirect us (gummy, mask, water bottles), and she's also the one who "helped" us investigate the shower room window. She made sure we would think there's no way to get out through the window without help, but out of everyone in the group, I feel like she's the one who would be able to pull off some gymnast parkour stunt to climb her way to the window and escape.

One issue after this update is the surfboard case thing. Someone would probably notice if there was blood inside the case, I guess?

Fabulousvillain
May 2, 2015


Esoteric Scientist posted:

One issue after this update is the surfboard case thing. Someone would probably notice if there was blood inside the case, I guess?

It's possible that the surfboard case is also to mislead the group and the killer was on the roof waiting for Hiyoko to leave before slipping back in, by window or otherwise. I suppose it's risky to be on the roof of the crime scene in broad daylight, but nobody looks up when it counts.

serefin99
Apr 15, 2016

Mikoooon~
Your lovely shrine maiden fox wife, Tamamo no Mae, is here to help!



Esoteric Scientist posted:

My money's still on Akane despite Peko being the most straightforward option. She intentionally got into a fight with Nekomaru to get blood all over her before killing Mahiru, she set up three clues to misdirect us (gummy, mask, water bottles), and she's also the one who "helped" us investigate the shower room window. She made sure we would think there's no way to get out through the window without help, but out of everyone in the group, I feel like she's the one who would be able to pull off some gymnast parkour stunt to climb her way to the window and escape.

One issue after this update is the surfboard case thing. Someone would probably notice if there was blood inside the case, I guess?

The problem I have with this is Akane seems too dumb to think of all of that. Sure you can try to argue that she's just been acting, but considering she's been like that since the beginning of the game, it's pretty safe to say that's how she actually is.

Doopliss
Nov 3, 2012


serefin99 posted:

The problem I have with this is Akane seems too dumb to think of all of that. Sure you can try to argue that she's just been acting, but considering she's been like that since the beginning of the game, it's pretty safe to say that's how she actually is.
I'm leery about "not smart enough" arguments from this sort of game, given that DanganRonpa has always been about very, very elaborate murders. In my view, all the students being criminal geniuses is just something you take in stride.

That said, my guess is that the water bottles aren't a distraction, if only because I'm not sure you can slot "But the killer obviously had to clean themselves off with the water bottles!" "Nah, that was probably just you setting up a frame job" into a good courtroom drama.

Oblivion4568238
Oct 10, 2012

The Inquisition.
What a show.
The Inquisition.
Here. We. Go.

College Slice

FPzero posted:

: Logic Dive is kind of like a Sonic 2 special stage in execution and control. You're constantly moving downwards around a cylindrical tube. The main difference is that there are holes in the course you have to avoid instead of spike balls. I recommend watching the video to see what the minigame looks like since it's constantly moving.

While not completely off, the much closer comparison is the Knuckle's Chaotix Special Stage, a full 3D tube you can run on the walls in with pits and spikes.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Click here to watch this update's video!



: Now then...I shall explain to you the final feature in the Nonstop Debates. From this point forward, you will now be able to use the Truth Flashback. If you hold down the Square/X button, the shape of the reticle will change. If you aim at the remark's weak spot and keep it in that position, you will be able to memorize it. This memorized phrase can only be fired once as a single Truth Bullet. If you shoot or change to a different Truth Bullet, it will disappear from your Truth Cylinder... However, you can use this flashback feature as many times as you want.
: If you don't see to have the answer to a lie or mistake in your available Truth Bullets... It might be wise to memorize a different weak spot and use that to make your case. When's the best time to flashback? Well, you'll have to trust your keen wits, won't you? By the way, you will not be able to agree with anyone while you're using the Truth Flashback. Please remember that it is only effective when refuting points. Well then...good luck and have fun!
: Absorbing and Memorizing statements to use as Truth Bullets returns as a feature and it's basically unchanged. The only addition is like the tutorial text mentioned: You can't use it to shoot a blue agree statement.







: What did the killer do with the blood on their body?
: Maybe they simply washed it off.
: They couldn't use the shower, right?
: So washing it off would've been impossible.
: They didn't have to use the shower...
: Ah, what about the wetsuits in the closet?
: Maybe they wore one when they moved the body!
: If they used something other than the shower...
: What did they do with the bloody wetsuit?
: They cut it up and *FLUSH!*
: As someone who flushes their poo poo every morning, I can declare...
: ...it would DEFINITELY clog the toilet!!!
: Maybe it's the other way around? Perhaps someone other than the killer moved the body?
: ...Maybe they were able to wash it off.

If I use that person's opinion...I might be able to break through the contradiction...

: As you can see by the number of Truth Bullets we have, this is the tutorial for absorbing and memorizing statements. Since you cannot shoot a memorized statement at an Agree statement, we can count those out. That leaves us two Weak Points. One will be the statement we have to memorize and the other the correct point to shoot.



: In this case, there's a pretty good chance the killer did wash themselves off with something other than the shower.





> Absorb "other than the shower"



> Shoot "would've been impossible"










: If they just needed to wash off the blood, they didn't necessarily have to use the shower.
: They could've just as easily used something else.
: Something other than the shower...like what?

Something other than the shower that was used to wash off the blood... It's possible it was...



> The drinks inside the refrigerator



: The drinks inside the refrigerator. Couldn't the killer have used those to wash off the blood?



: I've seen through it!





: In theory, but...that's impossible...
: ...Wh-Why!?
: Try to remember the refrigerator carefully, and then you will understand...



: ...that there's no possible way the drinks in the refrigerator were used!







Round One

: It's true there were drinks in the beach house refrigerator...
: However, try thinking about [unknown].
: One bottled drink is simply not enough.
: It wouldn't be enough to wash off the blood.

Advance!

: We can't assume they used just one drink...
: They could've used a bunch of them to wash it off!

Round Two

: Hmph... Didn't I say it was impossible?
: There were no water bottles in the refrigerator.
: There were only flavored drinks with colored dyes.
: If you used those to wash blood off...
: The blood won't come off and your body will get sticky. It will leave an aromatic smell, too.
: Especially if you used a lot.
: That alone would raise suspicion!

Could it be...that first allegation was intended to lead to this outcome...? But I should have evidence to use against her argument now...!

: I've learned two things at this point: First, I need to leave statements onscreen long enough so that I can transcribe them. That [unknown] up there is just because I never left the text onscreen long enough in either the video recording or my screenshot recording to see what her full statement says so I have no idea. Second, I've discovered that you don't really take a penalty if you don't cut a statement. In fact, by constantly slicing the weak points I'm actually hurting myself. Now that I've learned that, Rebuttal Showdowns in the future might be a little easier and look a bit less like I'm always barely scraping by.
: Oh and Peko's wrong because there were bottles in the trash can.



> Slice "no water bottles" with "Trash Can"









: No, there were water bottles inside the refrigerator.
: H-How many times do I have to tell you? There were no water bottles in there whatsoever...
: That was after the incident, right? But before the incident...there were water bottles in the fridge. And the killer took all of those water bottles and used them to wash the blood off their body!
: So you're saying the water bottles were gone...because they were all used? That's a logical fallacy...!
: It's not a fallacy... There should've been evidence inside the trash can.



: Evidence like a lot of thrown away plastic water bottles... Isn't that right, Chiaki?
: Ah, you're right. These bottles look like they may have been filled with water.
: Well...now that you mention it...



: When I went to the beach house a few days ago, I feel like I drank one of those plastic water bottles...
: Haaah!? You should've said so sooner!
: Then...the plastic water bottles were used in place of the shower.
: Dousing your body with lots of water bottles is such a simple and easy to understand explanation!
: ...

Hold...on a sec...





Now that I think about it, if they soaked their entire body with a bunch of plastic water bottles... If they did that...that person would be...!



: It seems you've realized who the killer is...
: ...Hm?
: See? Just as I thought.



: H-Hold on... Y-You know who the killer is...?
: I-Is that...true!?
: Let me ask... Who might that be?

If the killer...used plastic water bottles to wash off the blood that splattered onto them... That killer...Mahiru's killer...





Must be...that person...


Insertnamehere31
Jan 22, 2012

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali faced an eighty-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire Earth was destroyed.



As someone who tried to follow the first LP of this game but stopped before the first death even occurred, I gotta say this definitely lives up to my expectations so far. I should have seen Togami's death coming, but I never would have guessed Steve was actually the first killer. As for this case, I think they're gonna lead us towards Peko right now then turn the suspicion onto Sonia once Peko gets out of it (somehow) due to the wetsuit. Although there was definitely an accomplice in all this, as we only know 2 of the 3 non-killer witnesses to the body, and I assume this third person either helped move the body or helped the killer escape out the window. I'm gonna guess that Fuyuhiko and Sonia worked together (Fuyuhiko's sister looked an awful lot like a supposedly European princess), and he's the third witness. Alternatively, Sonia's a ghost who's finishing her revenge for her own murder.

Ibuki's awesome and I hope she survives the whole time. I feel like Chiaki is too competent and too Kirigiri-esque right now, so in order to subvert expectations she is definitely either even crazier than Nagito or on a one-way trip to murdered-town, probably by next case. As for the mole/traitor, I'd say it's either Chiaki or someone no one would expect, like Nekomaru or even Ibuki, though her presence in the twilight game seems to clear her.

Insertnamehere31 fucked around with this message at 16:43 on Mar 26, 2017

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

Feels like it's definitely Peko at this point, given her behavior and the actual evidence. Seems a little too obvious though, and it still doesn't explain about the third person to find the body. An accomplice of any kind just doesn't make sense, and except for Fuyuhiko I'm still not seeing anyone with an actual motive or attitude of not giving a gently caress strong enough to make them murder both Mahiru and attempt to cause the deaths of everyone else...

Buried alive
Jun 8, 2009


Zoe posted:

Feels like it's definitely Peko at this point, given her behavior and the actual evidence. Seems a little too obvious though, and it still doesn't explain about the third person to find the body. An accomplice of any kind just doesn't make sense, and except for Fuyuhiko I'm still not seeing anyone with an actual motive or attitude of not giving a gently caress strong enough to make them murder both Mahiru and attempt to cause the deaths of everyone else...

It's worth remembering they pulled this stuff with Steve too. Nobody saw Steve coming because nobody knew about his sick mom at home until after he was already convicted. That makes any motive being obvious a bit of a red herring to me which, among other things, strikes Fuyuhiko off the list of suspects for me.

Also the game is definitely reading like Peko is going to get accused, but I hope she lives. You need a straight man as a contrast for the rest of this insanity drat it.

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014





Buried alive posted:

It's worth remembering they pulled this stuff with Steve too. Nobody saw Steve coming because nobody knew about his sick mom at home until after he was already convicted. That makes any motive being obvious a bit of a red herring to me which, among other things, strikes Fuyuhiko off the list of suspects for me.

Also the game is definitely reading like Peko is going to get accused, but I hope she lives. You need a straight man as a contrast for the rest of this insanity drat it.

Isn't that Hinata though? He has very little respect for any of this insanity.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Buried alive posted:

Also the game is definitely reading like Peko is going to get accused, but I hope she lives. You need a straight man as a contrast for the rest of this insanity drat it.

That was Mahiru. The killer and any accomplices (if there are any) can go straight to hell. (If you think I sound harsh, I also know the motive of the case.)

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Mar 26, 2017

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Click here to watch this update's video!







: Peko...is it you!?
: ...
: Hey...what are you being quiet for? They're accusing you of being the killer...



: Then I should ask you this: why do you believe I'm the killer?
: I remember when we were all meeting up to go to the beach... Your appearance when you came to the diner...



: Hajime and Kazuichi... Why are you two here?
: Hey... Aren't you breathing pretty heavily?
: ...I just did a little swimming.



: If the killer really did wash the blood off with water bottles, they'd have to drench their entire body...
: But there were no towels in the beach house, and it would've taken a while for the water to fully air dry... So you said you went swimming so you'd have a cover story.
: ...
: D-Don't just stay silent! Say something!





: Hold on, you bastard! You saw her at the diner... You never saw her near the beach house, right!? So maybe she really was swimming!
: No one even saw her swimming!
: No...I saw her...
: ...Huh?



: I...after I ran into you bastards at the diner, I crossed paths with her on my way home...
: S-So...there's no doubt, she would've arrived at the diner from the opposite direction of the beach house.
: Hold on...that's strange... Didn't you just say this earlier?



: It's just a coincidence that I passed by the diner. I didn't even pay attention to the beach house...
: I went straight back to the hotel after I saw you guys. I didn't see anyone during that time.



: You told me you didn't see anyone. Don't try to tell me you forgot about that.
: Nghh...! ...





: N-Not so fast...! It's too soon to decide she's the killer!
: We haven't established how the killer was able to leave the beach house!
: N-Now that you mention it...you're right...
: The roadside door was blocked, and if it's impossible to leave from the beachside without leaving footprints...
: Then how the gently caress did the killer escape!?



: Um, why are you all fired up, Fuyuhiko? You're not the suspect, Peko is.
: Wh-Who cares about that!? Answer me! If you have an explanation then show me what you got!
: ...We might have an answer.
: ...Huh!?
: ...Do you, really? This mystery seems unsolvable.



: Well, if Peko is the killer, then I might just have an answer to that mystery...
: I see...
: Then let's hear this alleged method of escaping the beach house!
: First...let's establish how the killer escaped...

The killer's escape route... I might know what it was. In fact...the only possible thing I can think of is *that* opening.



> Small window in the shower room





: If the roadside and beachside doors aren't an option, the only other thing I can think of is...



: Well, nothing really...except that small window in the shower room.



: Heh, don't you know how high that window is? There's no way Peko could've reached it...
: B-But...what if, for instance, she got help from someone...?
: She mighta reached it by ridin' someone's shoulders, but then that person woulda been left behind.
: Is it possible an object was used? A rope, for instance...?
: And what happened to the rope after they used it? And don't say something like they threw it outside!
: Of course not! That would violate the school trip rule!





: Littering is prohibited...even if it might be evidence, rules are still rules...
: You see, there's no way they'd be able to escape from that window...!
: ...No, they'd just have to use an object.
: Chiaki, don't fall asleep on us! We just said they couldn't use an object!



: You did? I thought you were saying they couldn't dispose of an object.
: I see! You don't have to throw it away if you can just hide it somewhere on your body!
: Huh? Peko was wearing a swimsuit, remember? Where would she even hide an object?
: ...And if you say she hid it in her special place, I'll stab you in yours!
: N-Noooo! Please don't be violent!
: why is hiyoko such an aggressively bad character at times, jesus. sorry i usually don't break in during trials but i hate that line so much.



Even if the killer used an object to escape out the window, they wouldn't have been able to get rid of it... So...the only thing I can think of is that the killer must've hid it somewhere... If that's the case...

: ...

Focus...and think... The object the killer used to escape out the window...!







: There are no new mechanics for Hangman's Gambit this time.



: In fact, I can't remember if it ever gets new mechanics.



: It just gets a little faster every time. Still boring, long, and annoying.



> BAMBOO SWORD





: Peko...you carry that bamboo sword on your back at all times, right?
: ...
: If I recall correctly, you had it then, too...



: Despite the fact that you had a swimsuit on, you were still wearing your bamboo sword.



: A-Are you saying she used that bamboo sword to escape through the window...?
: Yeah... Peko used that bamboo sword as a stepstool and escaped out the window.
: A s-sword as a stepstool!?
: You see, I knew it! I knew it was a ninja! Didn't I tell ya? A ninja coulda climbed that easily!



: Ninjas know a climbin' trick where they lean their sword against a wall and use the handguard as a stepstool.
: Wow! Just like a Japanese ninja!
: Miss Sonia...ninjas *only* exist in Japan.
: Well, it is a bamboo sword, but...I'm sure a slender girl like Peko could easily use it to climb...
: Well, Peko...do you have anything to say?





: H-Hold on a sec, you bastard! You're sayin' she used her sword as a stepstool and went out the fuckin' window!? Then what about the sword!?
: It would've been left in the shower room and she wouldn't have been able to recover it, dumbass!
: F-Fuyuhiko... Why do you even care...?
: Sh-Shut up! Just shut the gently caress up and answer me! If you have answer then fuckin' give it to me! If she used the bamboo sword as a stepstool, it would've been left behind!



Fuyuhiko...why...? Why are you...?

EponymousMrYar
Jan 4, 2015

The enemy of my enemy is my enemy.


If Hiyoko doesn't turn out to be a victim I will be disappointed in this game

Also it's definitely looking like Fuyuhiko and Pekoe are in cahoots.

Fabulousvillain
May 2, 2015


EponymousMrYar posted:

If Hiyoko doesn't turn out to be a victim I will be disappointed in this game

Also it's definitely looking like Fuyuhiko and Pekoe are in cahoots.

Agreed and agreed, but I can't think of a reason why beyond Fuyuhiko lying about how he feels about the video game's results.

As for Fuyuhiko's question she could have tied the string that she's tying in her bikini portrait to the sword and herself so they both come with her out the window, or using the ribbon that she uses for her hair that wasn't in the bikini photo.

Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 03:07 on Mar 27, 2017

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

This explanation is so loving stupid. SO stupid. It's so stupid that I think maybe one person guessed it in oren's LP, and that one had pages and pages of speculation back and forth, everything under the sun.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Wasn't it part of the issue is that this is a trick that's common in period dramas, etc. in Japan but nowhere else so no one outside of Japan would've really guessed it due to lack of familiarity.

Sindai
Jan 24, 2007
i want to achieve immortality through not dying

Yeah, it's a thing you see ninjas and samurai do sometimes. I know I've seen it but couldn't name where.

Fabulousvillain
May 2, 2015


It makes sense until you realize humans have this special move called jumping that is followed by performing what's called a pull-up, but I guess it was just too high for that.

fractalairduct
Sep 26, 2015

I, Giorno Giovanna, have a dream!



At what point was it established that Peko's sword was made of bamboo? How are you supposed to figure that out for the hangman's gambit?

Qrr
Aug 14, 2015




Fabulousvillain posted:

It makes sense until you realize humans have this special move called jumping that is followed by performing what's called a pull-up, but I guess it was just too high for that.

Akane didn't think she could do that without someone helping her up and she's the ultimate gymnast.


And Peko has a conversation where she mentions her sword is made of bamboo, but it's still bullshit to include that in the hangman's gambit.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Robindaybird posted:

Wasn't it part of the issue is that this is a trick that's common in period dramas, etc. in Japan but nowhere else so no one outside of Japan would've really guessed it due to lack of familiarity.

I've seen people levitating under their own power, but I don't think the game would have accepted "the killer simply levitated themselves to cross the sand without leaving footprints". That's because like period dramas, the levitation I've seen was in fiction. This is supposed to be "reality". Has anyone in reality ever managed to stand on the hilt of a sword? Is there a youtube video of a real life human demonstrating this which I could be suitably in awe of?


Qrr posted:

Akane didn't think she could do that without someone helping her up and she's the ultimate gymnast.

Yeah. Okay, I shall accept the premise that it is possible for someone to stand on a sword hilt. But still, we're expected to believe that Peko put that sword against the wall with nothing to stop it from sliding on the smooth and shiny tile floor, or falling once there's the force of~100 lbs of mass acting on it from above. It couldn't have been just a single leap, because it wasn't just a ledge grab. Peko would have had to take the grating off the window, grab the ledge, push the window open, one-handedly pull herself (with sword tied to ankle) through the window, still holding the grating, hang on to the window from the outside, carefully place the totally unsecured grating back into place, and close the window without disturbing the grating. Oh, and she does this while soaking wet without most of the water rubbing off onto the walls she's clinging onto.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Mar 27, 2017

Fabulousvillain
May 2, 2015


Qrr posted:

Akane didn't think she could do that without someone helping her up and she's the ultimate gymnast.


And Peko has a conversation where she mentions her sword is made of bamboo, but it's still bullshit to include that in the hangman's gambit.

I thought when Akane was reaching for it, it was to see if she could take the cover off of it. Seems like just jumping would work since it's not like Akane jumped off of Hajime to reach it. Unless the killer (who sent letters to two people in order to kill one, frame the other, and make the murder look reminiscent of a crime scene from a video game) didn't think far enough ahead to keep it open beforehand, I'm gonna say jumping should've worked.

I'll stop whining about this dumb puzzle, since everyone already agrees it's bullshit. Just want to elaborate on exactly what I meant.

Fabulousvillain fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Mar 27, 2017

hopeandjoy
Nov 28, 2014





fractalairduct posted:

At what point was it established that Peko's sword was made of bamboo? How are you supposed to figure that out for the hangman's gambit?

It was probably because in Japanese it was referred to as a shinai (a bamboo practice sword aka what this is), which is something most Japanese people would know about because kendo in schools still use them.

Unfortunately, only extreme weebs know what a shinai is. Hell, I generally knew it was a thing and had to look up its actual name just now. Better to call it a bamboo sword then. (Better yet to call it a practice sword.)

Rarity
Oct 21, 2010

Excuse me, I'd like to
speak to the moderator





Wooden sword would make most sense and not break the 6-5 letter pattern. Luckily this is the most egrigious case of bastard logic in the game.

And the end of the trial is so great that it more than makes up for it

Tombot
Oct 21, 2008


Fuyuhiko really, really does not want us to go into this half cocked does he. He's probably terrified of being killed.

Axle_Stukov
Feb 26, 2011

Stylin'


fractalairduct posted:

At what point was it established that Peko's sword was made of bamboo? How are you supposed to figure that out for the hangman's gambit?

Her introduction back in the prologue actually establishes this.

Qrr
Aug 14, 2015




Stabbey_the_Clown posted:



Yeah. Okay, I shall accept the premise that it is possible for someone to stand on a sword hilt. But still, we're expected to believe that Peko put that sword against the wall with nothing to stop it from sliding on the smooth and shiny tile floor, or falling once there's the force of~100 lbs of mass acting on it from above. It couldn't have been just a single leap, because it wasn't just a ledge grab. Peko would have had to take the grating off the window, grab the ledge, push the window open, one-handedly pull herself (with sword tied to ankle) through the window, still holding the grating, hang on to the window from the outside, carefully place the totally unsecured grating back into place, and close the window without disturbing the grating. Oh, and she does this while soaking wet without most of the water rubbing off onto the walls she's clinging onto.

I think you are making the grating more complex than it is. It's attached to the window and swings out with it. Yes, that's a really stupid way to make a window, but it makes opening it much simpler than you are thinking.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Qrr posted:

I think you are making the grating more complex than it is. It's attached to the window and swings out with it. Yes, that's a really stupid way to make a window, but it makes opening it much simpler than you are thinking.



Double Punctuation
Dec 30, 2009

Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!


So I'm guessing Fuyuhiko hired Peko and doesn't care that he'll die if she escapes. He probably willed some valuables to her as payment.

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Qrr
Aug 14, 2015





": This iron bar ain't even pinned down. Looks like you can open and close it pretty easy. See? My head can fit through, no problem."

Frankly I don't get how the iron bars work, but either way they're apparently easy to open and close.

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