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ApplesandOranges
Jun 22, 2012

He will know I am near when he hears the screams of my enemies.

Hobgoblin2099 posted:

I used to dislike Mahiru a lot because of her attitude, but time has given me a good chance to look at her and see that I was judging her unfairly. It is a shame she died early on since she does seem like one of the people who would have tried to rein in all of the craziness that happened.

That said, the craziness that happens involved Nagito, so...

Also, as an aside, I kind of wonder what it'd be like if Mahiru and Chihiro met.

I kind of doubt it, personally. She was one of the people who cracked and played Twilight Syndrome, and she isn't really forceful enough to push people together (she declined making all the girls meet up when they had other plans).

I'd still have preferred her to survive, but I don't think her mental fortitude is enough to be able to rein in some of the nuttier members of the group. She does have the benefit of being one of the only people Hiyoko doesn't go off on though.

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BrightWing
Apr 27, 2012

Yes, he is quite mad.


Mahiru mostly just didn't take any of Fuyuhiko's poo poo.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY- WAIT SHIT IS THAT A SKELETON?



Fuyuhiko should have been murdered first. She was awful and had no redeeming qualities.

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



Who What Now posted:

Fuyuhiko should have been murdered first. She was awful and had no redeeming qualities.

You sure you got the right character? Fuyuhiko is the Yak boy, Hiyoko is the sadistic dancer.

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY- WAIT SHIT IS THAT A SKELETON?



Damnit. I'm awful at keeping Japanese names straight

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



ApplesandOranges posted:

I kind of doubt it, personally. She was one of the people who cracked and played Twilight Syndrome, and she isn't really forceful enough to push people together (she declined making all the girls meet up when they had other plans).

I'd still have preferred her to survive, but I don't think her mental fortitude is enough to be able to rein in some of the nuttier members of the group. She does have the benefit of being one of the only people Hiyoko doesn't go off on though.

While it would've been interesting to see Mahiru survive longer, I think we'd have lost out on Fuyuhiko getting any sort of character development. In fact, he'd probably have died instead. As someone who really likes the character development he received after Trial 2, I'd be sad to lose him. Honestly, I'd have preferred for Hiyoko to survive Chapter 3 to see her have to come to terms with Fuyuhiko and develop that way. She was already making the effort when she was killed.

DR2 hurts the most for me because I like so much of the cast.

BlazeEmblem
Jun 8, 2013

Uh oh. Do I use Ariadne thread or Goho-M?



ApplesandOranges posted:

She was one of the people who cracked and played Twilight Syndrome,

She only played it because Fuyuhiko gave her the pictures he got from beating it first, and told her to play it (and how to access the secret part of the game). She didn't crack, she just needed to know how she was involved with it.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



As much as I love having readers following along here, I feel obligated to mention that the whole Danganronpa series is on sale right now:
https://twitter.com/Wario64/status/943905785175711744
If you'd like to play these games yourself, now would be a great time to pick them up.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido







: It's time for my favorite track in the game--no, possibly my favorite track in the whole series, V3 included. Kill Command is to Homocide everything that BOX 16 was to BOX 15 in the first game, but cranked up to eleven. I love it so much, and I hope you'll enjoy it too.



First...we need to look at the Monokuma File.







CAUSE OF DEATH

-The victim is Nagito Komaeda.

-His body was discovered inside the warehouse near the Monokuma Plushie Factory.

-The estimated time of death is believed to be noon sharp.

-Not only is there a spear stabbed in his stomach, there are multiple stab wounds on each of his thighs.

-Furthermore, there is a laceration on his left arm and a knife impaled through his right hand.



: What a tragic situation... Just reading this is making me depressed...



: Is there...something wrong with this Monokuma File?
: Hm? Again? But...what's wrong with it?



Not only is there a spear stabbed in his stomach, there are multiple stab wounds on each of his thighs. Furthermore, there is a laceration on his left arm and a knife impaled through his right hand.



: ...
: Hmmm...it's definitely weird...
: Well, I guess I'll find out if I look around. That's what the investigation is for.
: Don't worry or form conclusions on your own... That makes *me* more worried than I should be.



: We can discuss it later. Right now is our only chance to investigate... So we should investigate first.
: If we don't...there won't be anything for us to discuss.
: Well, I guess you're right...

Then...let's start with the area surrounding Nagito's body. I should start with the back of the warehouse. Since the curtain blocked most of the water, this area wasn't affected by the sprinklers that much... Thanks to that, I can properly investigate Nagito's body.

: ...

I...never thought I'd have to investigate Nagito's body... He probably didn't expect to end up like this either.





: Nagito is dead. He's...really dead.
: ...Can't say I'll miss him too much, christ what an rear end in a top hat.
: Well, we've got to survive, so I guess we'll start by examining his body.



I never expected Nagito...to die like this... He was always spouting nonsense about hope and trying to confuse the hell out of us... But even so...dying like this is just too cruel. Also...he wasn't completely useless... There were times we were only able to reach the truth because of him.

But...everything good and bad about him is gone. We'll never be confused by him again. We'll never be saved by him again...


: No...now isn't the time to think about unnecessary things. I need to focus on the investigation right now.

For now, I need to investigate everything about this body that catches my eye.



: There are a lot of things to examine here.



: Let's start from the left with the Knife.



: The knife is stabbed through Nagito's right hand...!

Did the killer do this? H-How could they do something so cruel...!?



: This knife... It must be from the military base.
: ...Military base? Ah, now that you mention it, you're right... It looks like a survival knife...
: By the way...it seems the wounds on his legs and left arm were caused by that same knife.
: Which means...after the killer was finished stabbing Nagito's legs and left arm...they stabbed the knife through his right hand?
: And then...they finished him off with the spear...



: H-How cruel!
: Then...does that mean the killer went to the trouble of using two weapons, a knife and a spear? But...they could've just killed him by stabbing him with the knife... Why did they need to use a spear at all?
: That...is definitely strange. Was there...a reason they had to use it?

A reason they had to use the spear...huh...





: Next, this burnt rope.



Nagito's right wrist is tied with rope... But it looks like the tip of that rope burned off. Could this be a result of the fire?

But that's weird... If the rope burned off like this...


: ...
: Why are Nagito's clothes completely unaffected by the fire when he was so close to the blaze?





: Let's take a look at his face.



He...must've been in great pain... He clearly had this agonizing look on his face when he died... His mouth is covered with duct tape. Was this to keep Nagito from screaming for help...?



: Jeez...what a horrible look on his face... The blood splattered all over it doesn't help either... It's a good thing his mouth is covered with duct tape, otherwise I wouldn't be able to look at him...
: Ah, got a minute...? Sorry, excuse me.

Chiaki moved past Kazuichi and me, and squatted down next to Nagito's face...



And in one swift movement, she ripped the duct tape off of his mouth.


: H-Hey!? What are you doing!?



: Ah, it'll be fine. I'll put it back right away once I'm done investigating here.
: P-Putting the tape back isn't the issue, you ungrateful swine! You're gonna get cursed!
: Ah, the blood on Nagito's face... It looks like it mostly came from the slice on his left arm... Hmmm...if that's the case...
: It's no use. She's not listening.
: Hey, about the blood splattered on his face...



: ...There's no blood under the duct tape.
: Wh-What's wrong with that?
: This duct tape has crinkles, like it was sticking toward the inside of his mouth, right? Nagito...was probably desperately moving his mouth under the duct tape.
: Seriously, what's wrong with that!?

She means...Nagito's mouth was covered with duct tape before he got those wounds all over his body... So he tried to shout, which caused the duct tape to get sucked into his mouth a bit... But...what's wrong with that? Is that something we really need to worry about?

: I...don't really get it, but just put the duct tape back on his mouth already...
: ...
: Yeah, you're right.

Anyway...this might be some kind of clue, too. I should remember it.





: Next, Nagito's left hand.



There's a cut on his upper left arm...

: His legs and right hand have stab wounds, but this wound looks like a slice... That's probably the reason that the wound on his left arm doesn't look that deep compared to his other wounds.
: Well, regardless...it doesn't change the fact that it's a hideous wound, and there's blood everywhere.



: Hmmm...there's something strange...
: Strange...what?
: Look at the palm of his left hand. I think that blood is from when his left arm was sliced, but...



: Doesn't...the bloodsplatter look strange? It cuts off right in the middle of his palm.
: Yeah, it definitely cuts off... Maybe that's as far as the blood could reach when it splattered.
: Well, that would explain the blood on his palm, but...
: ...Hm? There's something else that's strange?
: When you flip it over and look at the back of his hand...



: Here, there's blood, but only above the middle joint of each finger.
: You're right...why is it only on this part?
: See, it's just as I said, right? It's strange, right?
: ...I win.
: Y-Yeah sure...you win...

But...it's definitely strange... What did the killer do to make the blood splatter like this?





: Now for this very conspicious spear...



A spear with a flashy ornament on it is impaled deeply into Nagito's stomach...

: There's no way around it...that looks like the fatal wound.





: Oh my? What's this? Such a strange-looking spear, isn't it? A cord extends from the tip of the handle...and there's an iron weight attached to it...
: I see, I see...you use the cord as a whip to capture the enemy, and deliver the final blow with the spear...
: Is this your first time looking at this, too?



: O-Of course not! Um...this is the Spear of Gungnir, right!?
: You...definitely just came up with that now...
: By the way, I wanted to ask you...where did that spear come from?
: I feel like...I saw it at Nezumi Castle.
: What!? Nezumi Castle!?



: I was designed to be afraid of mice, so I can't go in there...
: drat you, mice! drat you all to hell! *leaves*

I see... Even he doesn't know what's inside that castle...





Well, more importantly, I need to focus on the investigation...

The spear definitely catches my eye, but the weight on the end of the cord coming out of the handle... It looks like that part has blood on it, too.



But...for some reason, this section of the cord doesn't have blood on it. It's about the size of a human fist... It's strange that this section of the cord doesn't have blood on it.

Also...Chiaki mentioned this earlier, but apparently that spear came from Nezumi Castle... It might be better if I confirm that later.






: And lastly, let's examine Nagito's feet.



Both of Nagito's legs are tied up. Each rope is tied to the pillars nearby. He wouldn't have been able to move at all... According to the Monokuma File, the wounds on his legs are all stab wounds... Does that mean the killer didn't just tie up Nagito, they also stabbed his legs?

: Why...would the killer do something like that?



: At any rate, it's pretty sadistic... The killer must've been holding a huge grudge toward him... Or...they might've been torturing him.
: T-Torture...!?
: I mean, if they just wanted to kill him, they could've just stabbed him once in the chest, right? If you disregard the spear in his chest... The other wounds were inflicted for reasons other than killing.

Which means...the wounds all over Nagito's body were from the killer torturing him?

: ...

If that's the case... What was the killer trying to make Nagito confess? Was it...something that would've led to the traitor?



: Well...even if this was torture, there's no doubt that the killer must've held a deep grudge toward Nagito.
: Refusing to let him die easily...I can totally understand a dark impulse like that...!

But...even if they held a grudge against him, would they really have gone this far?





Um...I guess I'm done with the area surrounding Nagito's body. Jeez...I can't believe I actually investigated such a grisly-looking body...

...Even I'm surprised at myself. Does this mean...I'm used to it? My classmate's dead body is right in front of me...and one of my peers is the killer responsible... And I have to investigate his death so I can find his killer...

Am I used to something as abnormal as that?

That would mean...I'm becoming abnormal, too.


: Next time, we'll keep looking around the crime scene.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

- Noon. That's when the bombs were set to go off isn't it? But at that time, everyone was together in the factory trying to defuse them. I don't know if anyone could have slipped out.
- Hmmm, I think I see what's wrong with the monobear file. His left hand has a red splotch on it too, but the file doesn't mention a wound to his left hand. It could just be rope chafing, but...
- Good point about the rope. I guess it's possible that the rope was caught on fire from farther back and burned out closer... but that doesn't seen quite so likely. So the burned rope was fake? Done before the fire?
- His mouth was duct-taped at the time his arm was sliced up? Hmm... the main reason I can think of to injure him so much would be to torture him for information, but taping his mouth defeats that purpose.
- ...it looks like his left hand was clutching something at the time it got blood on it. ...We need to see what the ropes tying him down are attached to.

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

The problem is, it's Nagito, so there's no telling what he might have set up on his own as far as the fire, etc., or at what point the killer took over.

What with the rope on the spear and that other rope burnt, it could be that there was a death trap rigged up entirely separate from the knife, maybe to fool the time of death? Because why go through the trouble and risk of being spotted lugging around a spear that size, when you've got a perfectly serviceable and more easily hidden knife?

C. Everett Koop
Aug 18, 2008

by Smythe


Is it possible he stabbed himself with the spear, causing the fatal wound, and the rest are all superficial wounds?

It doesn't make sense but Nagito never did make sense so it's flawless in it's logic.

kvx687
Dec 29, 2009



Soiled Meat

The Monokuma File doesn't list the actual cause of death, that's interesting. It implies the spear is the fatal wound but doesn't actually confirm it. Offhand that makes me think that none of them were the actual cause; with what little evidence we have so far suffocation is my guess, given the way Chiaki noted the tape around his mouth.

C. Everett Koop posted:

Is it possible he stabbed himself with the spear, causing the fatal wound, and the rest are all superficial wounds?

It doesn't make sense but Nagito never did make sense so it's flawless in it's logic.

He was almost certainly holding onto it at some point, the gaps in the blood splatters match up. I wonder if he was holding it when he died and was somehow forced to let it go afterwards, though I can't imagine how with what we know so far.

kvx687 fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Dec 22, 2017

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

C. Everett Koop posted:

Is it possible he stabbed himself with the spear, causing the fatal wound, and the rest are all superficial wounds?

This was one of the first things I started wondering about considering that his hand and the spot on the spear's rope were both weirdly clean, so they're connected somehow even if we don't have enough to go on to figure out how yet. It's just the knife and the stab wounds and the fire that don't fit, none of that was necessary as far as I can figure out at this point.

dancingbears
May 10, 2011

You're an idiot,
so start acting
like one.



FPzero posted:

: ...Can't say I'll miss him too much, christ what an rear end in a top hat.

Don't worry, I'll do the missing for both of us. Christ, what an rear end in a top hat.

Buried alive
Jun 8, 2009


You know, if the spear really was what finally killed him, it seems like he must have been holding on to the rope while everything else was being done to him. Not only that, but that part of the rope and his hand must have been near the stab wound or there wouldn't have been any blood splatter anyway. Which is impossible if his hand was already tied down. The only thing I can think of is if the killer tied him down and had the spear rigged up to the rafters or something so that when Nagito let go of the rope, the spear would fall and kill him. Then the killer cut the arm, and that's what the blocked splatter is from. Then the killer put tape over his face and just walked away, waiting for either the suffocation or the spear to finish the job. A delayed death like that would explain how it was possible for everyone to be in the warehouse at the official time of death.

Also whoever it was must be incredibly strong, because it cannot possibly be that easy to drive a knife into a concrete floor. Or maybe they used some sort of a tool that we haven't found yet?

Buried alive fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Dec 22, 2017

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


FPzero posted:

: Nagito is dead. He's...really dead.
: ...Can't say I'll miss him too much, christ what an rear end in a top hat.

Everyone's reaction to Chapter 5.

curiousCat
Sep 23, 2012

Does this look like the face of mercy, kupo?


Buried alive posted:

Also whoever it was must be incredibly strong, because it cannot possibly be that easy to drive a knife into a concrete floor. Or maybe they used some sort of a tool that we haven't found yet?
I think it's just through his hand, not into the floor.

Scaramouche
Mar 26, 2001

SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!



The clean palm/bloody fingers on the left hand strongly implies he stabbed someone with say, a knife. The question being whether it was his attacker he stabbed, or the more heavy metal version of he stabbed his own right hand into the ground.

eating only apples
Dec 12, 2009

Shall we dance?



Definitely feeling like he did it all himself. The duct tape being on his mouth before (at least some of) the wounds were inflicted doesn't make a lot of sense if he was being tortured for information - maybe he put it on to keep himself quiet while he was doing it all.

Also this is the grimmest death in the series so far, christ.

ilmucche
Mar 16, 2016

The magnificent story of Dwayt al-Shrood.



Totes a suicide. Giving everyone hope by killing the guy who fills them with despair.

Also, so many wounds, so many ways to get killed. He may have gotten lucky that the fire didn't get it done, or the knife wounds, but the spear did etc.

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

eating only apples posted:

Definitely feeling like he did it all himself. The duct tape being on his mouth before (at least some of) the wounds were inflicted doesn't make a lot of sense if he was being tortured for information - maybe he put it on to keep himself quiet while he was doing it all.

So, he hung the spear by its rope from the ceiling and somehow made it swing back and forth like a pendulum?

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

IN THE GRIM DARKNESS OF THE FAR FUTURE THERE IS ONLY- WAIT SHIT IS THAT A SKELETON?



If it's a suicide (which already seems extremely likely) his plan probably relied on his extreme luck, similar to how he used his luck to get through the trial in the funhouse. Which means the trial will probably be a little frustrating since it'll require some pretty huge leaps of logic.

Who What Now fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Dec 22, 2017

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



His face didn't exactly scream suicide though.

Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013


FoolyCharged posted:

His face didn't exactly scream suicide though.

Perhaps it was like "I know I'm doing this to myself but CHRIST THIS HURTS!"?

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

Yeah okay, I was also getting the impression that the blood on his hand is from him driving the knife into his own hand. However, we'll really need to see how his arms and legs are tied down to be sure. If he did it himself, there would need to be some kind of pulley system for his left arm rope to automatically pull his left arm down to the ground after death. And the spear would need to go over some kind of pipe or pulley as well.

I do want to ask WHY he would kill himself, but of course, he's loving NUTS. So good riddance, no matter what.

Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013


Personally, my guess is that he somehow used his luck to make it so that the "traitor" is the responsible party, even if they don't know it.

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

Colander Crotch
Nov 24, 2005

I- I don't even know what you just called me!

Based on that thought, it would have to be Chiaki. At almost exactly noon she swiped her handbook. The video said that if the traitor swiped it then it would stop the bomb. It was probably a trigger to some deathtrap that he put himself in so that he could be killed through his luck.

Toalpaz
Mar 20, 2012

Peace through overwhelming determination


I have speculation but I think it's a little too spot on how the deed was done judging by this evidence. Definitely a suicide, that's likely. It would be despair inducing however, if someone came along before the job was done and gave him a little push before he was finished and tried to take all the credit. That would be super cool, and explain his terrified face.

Anyways I really liked Nagito, kinda a dick but very competent at what he wanted to do which is cool in a way.

Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013


Colander Crotch posted:

Based on that thought, it would have to be Chiaki. At almost exactly noon she swiped her handbook. The video said that if the traitor swiped it then it would stop the bomb. It was probably a trigger to some deathtrap that he put himself in so that he could be killed through his luck.

My god, this makes a disturbing amount of sense. I hope that if this is true, it was merely a really good guess, not someone with foreknowledge pretending to be good at guessing (which has happend in various threads of various LP's).

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

Colander Crotch
Nov 24, 2005

I- I don't even know what you just called me!

I have never played a Danganronpa game and have only experienced it through these threads. It is an honest guess based on the evidence we have seen. I think he basically did all of it to himself and the death itself was triggered by the act of using a handbook. He had to be relying on his luck in this case to use it to smoke out the traitor.

GuyUpNorth
Apr 29, 2014

Witty phrases on random basis

We are talking about Deus Ex Machina-tier luck so it's a possibility. Fireworks were a sign to let go, but that Rube Goldberg rigging is completely unclear so far (and probably gets clarified along investigation or trial).

LAY-ZX
Nov 10, 2009



FoolyCharged posted:

His face didn't exactly scream suicide though.

Inflicting yourself with dozens of knife wounds doesn't hurt any less than someone else doing it.

Covski
Jun 24, 2007

Bringing the forums together with the greatest thread!


It really says a lot about Nagito that "insanely convoluted rube goldberg suicide" is the immediately obvious theory rather than the last minute plot twist

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Maybe he was hoping that if he did enough terrible things to himself, his luck would kick in and balance the scales just as dramatically?

Megillah Gorilla
Sep 22, 2003

One Potato to rule them all,
One Potato to find them,
One Potato to bring them all
And in the darkness bind them.





Bread Liar

Colander Crotch posted:

I think he basically did all of it to himself and the death itself was triggered by the act of using a handbook.

So the big quesiton is going to become:

If touching her tablet killed Nagito, did Chiaki "murder" him?

Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013


Gorilla Salad posted:

So the big quesiton is going to become:

If touching her tablet killed Nagito, did Chiaki "murder" him?

Given this is working off Monokuma's definition of murder? Yes.

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

Blademaster_Aio
Jan 22, 2017



Stephen9001 posted:

Given this is working off Monokuma's definition of murder? Yes.

Accidental murder is still murder in Monokuma's logic.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Wanna see a demonstration of my school? It's called "Eight Leaves, One Very Big Stick"!


Taco Defender

I think you guys are really stretching with that. But the game is a LOT more idiotic than I think at times.

Plus, if Nagito really wants to be the symbol of hope for everyone else, it doesn't make sense to arrange his death to be so impossible to solve and connected to swiping the book so that the book-swiper gets executed even though they had no idea that would kill anyone. That would be one twist too far.

It's much more likely that the fireworks going off was the signal to Nagito to let go of the spear thing, not an automatic trigger (which would be more the mechanic's specialty anyway). Simpler and more in character than trying to get some random person executed. If that's really what he wanted he could have just killed them himself.

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Stephen9001
Oct 28, 2013


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

I think you guys are really stretching with that. But the game is a LOT more idiotic than I think at times.

Plus, if Nagito really wants to be the symbol of hope for everyone else, it doesn't make sense to arrange his death to be so impossible to solve and connected to swiping the book so that the book-swiper gets executed even though they had no idea that would kill anyone. That would be one twist too far.

It's much more likely that the fireworks going off was the signal to Nagito to let go of the spear thing, not an automatic trigger (which would be more the mechanic's specialty anyway). Simpler and more in character than trying to get some random person executed. If that's really what he wanted he could have just killed them himself.

The thing is, we've already established that his Luck is very real, so it doesn't seem out of the question he somehow used it to make it so that the traitor is the one responsible (by Monokuma's logic) for his death.

I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.

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