Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


So that's why Nagito has Junko Ocelot's hand sewn on. He was hoping to bring her back. Or something like that.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Deadmeat5150 posted:

So that's why Nagito has Junko Ocelot's hand sewn on. He was hoping to bring her back. Or something like that.

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?

eating only apples
Dec 12, 2009

Shall we dance?



I don't remember Naegi's english voice being so irritating. Maybe he yelled a lot more in the first game?

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




Narsham posted:

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?

I theorise that Mikan has no parts, because logically she's the one who did the transplant for everyone else.

eating only apples
Dec 12, 2009

Shall we dance?



Narsham posted:

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?

Junko was squished, hands and feet are maybe all they're gonna get! Maybe locks of bloody hair? Gross

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

I mean I know we have to have the dramatic reveals and stuff and I'm happy all the final bits of what's actually going on are falling into place but ultimately it's not like them not deciding to graduate is a realistic possibility, so it's kind of a weird non-choice to hang all the tension on. 'Just hang out here in a virtual world in the absolute power of this wacky adorable bear who's been forcing you all to kill each other for fun' can't be all that attractive an alternative if they think about if for like, five seconds. If nothing else the rest of the Future Foundation deciding to smother the evil despair club with pillows while they're plugged in and helpless might be a possibility they should worry about.

Narsham posted:

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?



It's been so long I can't even remember exactly how she died in the first one, as in what state the body should have been in by the time Nagito swooped in for a hand job.

(sorry)

Zoe fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Feb 26, 2018

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Zoe posted:

I mean I know we have to have the dramatic reveals and stuff and I'm happy all the final bits of what's actually going on are falling into place but ultimately it's not like them not deciding to graduate is a realistic possibility, so it's kind of a weird non-choice to hang all the tension on. 'Just hang out here in a virtual world in the absolute power of this wacky adorable bear who's been forcing you all to kill each other for fun' can't be all that attractive an alternative if they think about if for like, five seconds. If nothing else the rest of the Future Foundation deciding to smother the evil despair club with pillows while they're plugged in and helpless might be a possibility they should worry about.

I think they're not meant to choose to graduate, nor are they meant to choose to stay. There's a third, hidden option that they first need to figure out exists at all. At least, that's what Naegi implied earlier.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Narsham posted:

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?

Fuyuhiko obviously has an eye.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Not sure how that double posted.

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

Tenebrais posted:

I think they're not meant to choose to graduate, nor are they meant to choose to stay. There's a third, hidden option that they first need to figure out exists at all. At least, that's what Naegi implied earlier.

Right, I forgot about that. Still, assuming that means Monokuma is bullshitting them about being able to leave if they pick graduate, the shutdown is still the 'get out of the virtual world' option, and for whatever reason he was implying before all this that if they find out how much they/the world sucks they'll give in to ~despair~ and want to keep hanging out with him.

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Zoe posted:

It's been so long I can't even remember exactly how she died in the first one, as in what state the body should have been in by the time Nagito swooped in for a hand job.

(sorry)



In short, a bloody paste.

(Yeah just roll with it I guess there was a small retcon or something)

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013


I mean she died like six times over in that. I'm not sure it was literal.

Or maybe they just didn't anticipate a sequel.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


I can kind of see every character going all Despair Crazy. Except for Ibuki and Nekomaru, I just don't see what kind of path they would have taken to get there.

Edit: Also Teruteru got it right way in the beginning. Nothing is real.

RareAcumen
Dec 28, 2012






Stephen9001 posted:

Wait, so Hajime was the mystery person in that flashback with Nagito? ...I suppose being a reserve course student would have made him a nobody, in the sense that he lacked a particularly special talent.

This simulation is falling apart real hard so I wouldn't be surprised if Nagito was there or he's seeing something that someone else saw.

Just wait for the game to suddenly turn into an RTS.

Insertnamehere31
Jan 22, 2012

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali faced an eighty-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire Earth was destroyed.



I'm gonna guess the Naegi they're talking with right now isn't the real one, but a plant that the virus brought in to sow more despair. Why else would monokuma be so cool with him showing up? Plus there's the whole thing with naegi having to go through alter ego before.

Also as it stands right now they're basically locked into abstaining forever, right? There's only 5 remaining students, and they need more than 50% of the original 15 to vote to graduate. I think monokuma stacked the deck with fake students (the "main cast" modelled off of the characters from the original game) who will show up, rant at them in order to make them despair then force them into a decision they don't want to make.

Lord_Magmar
Feb 24, 2015

"Welcome to pound town, Slifer slacker!"




FPzero posted:



In short, a bloody paste.

(Yeah just roll with it I guess there was a small retcon or something)

The Ultimate Nurse can fix a body that badly damaged, probably.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Deadmeat5150 posted:

I can kind of see every character going all Despair Crazy. Except for Ibuki and Nekomaru, I just don't see what kind of path they would have taken to get there.

Edit: Also Teruteru got it right way in the beginning. Nothing is real.

Not sure about Nekomaru, but Ibuki is at least established to have weird musical tastes that scare other people. Also, she bites people randomly. It's not hard to imagine she'd have some vulnerability that could be preyed on.

Stroth
Mar 31, 2007

All Problems Solved


Lord_Magmar posted:

I theorise that Mikan has no parts, because logically she's the one who did the transplant for everyone else.

The answer to that is so much worse

Seb
Apr 8, 2003



Soiled Meat

I must confess I naively thought DR2 would just be another killing game, and have been trying to think of who would be the mastermind for months.

This is... Wow.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Oh god I just had a weird idea. What if Monobear is still Junko? Like somehow after getting pasted the Remnants scooped her up and did some trickery fuckery and sucked out her mind. And now she's here to prevent her minions from getting better! Although I have little clue how she got in the machine, unless it's through Nagito's hand.

This is what happens to me when I dream on Nyquil.

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



Deadmeat5150 posted:

Oh god I just had a weird idea. What if Monobear is still Junko? Like somehow after getting pasted the Remnants scooped her up and did some trickery fuckery and sucked out her mind. And now she's here to prevent her minions from getting better! Although I have little clue how she got in the machine, unless it's through Nagito's hand.

This is what happens to me when I dream on Nyquil.

I mean, if the machine creates an avatar of those present and junko's bits were present in all of them going in, would that not be enough for her to get an avatar?

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



FoolyCharged posted:

I mean, if the machine creates an avatar of those present and junko's bits were present in all of them going in, would that not be enough for her to get an avatar?

That is complete and utter nonsense.

So I'd call it the leading theory at the moment.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Deadmeat5150 posted:

This is what happens to me when I dream on Nyquil.

Metal Gear Solid 2?

Carbon dioxide
Oct 9, 2012



Insertnamehere31 posted:

I'm gonna guess the Naegi they're talking with right now isn't the real one, but a plant that the virus brought in to sow more despair. Why else would monokuma be so cool with him showing up? Plus there's the whole thing with naegi having to go through alter ego before.

Because Naegi can convince them to stay and that seems to be what Monokuma-virus wants.

quote:

Also as it stands right now they're basically locked into abstaining forever, right? There's only 5 remaining students, and they need more than 50% of the original 15 to vote to graduate. I think monokuma stacked the deck with fake students (the "main cast" modelled off of the characters from the original game) who will show up, rant at them in order to make them despair then force them into a decision they don't want to make.

THAT'S WRONG!!! Have my truth bullet:

quote:

: Compared to the other trials, the rules are much simpler this time. There are two options: Graduate and Repeat, right? You just have to choose one of them, and press it. All of you will cast your vote, and whichever one has the majority will be considered your final decision! If you don't press either of them, it will be treated as an absence and will not be counted.
: Which means, everyone who has died up till now will have their votes treated as absences!



: Then...the result is based on our majority vote.
: Ahem! If Graduate is chosen by a majority vote... From there, an event that's kinda like a graduation ceremony called the Graduation Program will begin...
: Argh! Even if we do this stupid majority vote, the result is already pretty drat obvious! C'mon let's move this along! We can press it now, right!?

The dead people are treated as absences and not counted. So, there only needs to be a majority among the living. They could vote right now, like Kazuichi said. The real problem is what Monokuma says just after: he still has the final say. The only way out is Naegi's third option, which Monokuma doesn't know about, because Naegi hijacked Alter Ego's connection.

Cryohazard
Feb 5, 2010


Yeah, only the third shutdown option requires more than 50%. The other two only require a majority. That'll be why Makoto's there, to see if he should bring in the others and initiate a shutdown or let them all rot in there.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


FoolyCharged posted:

I mean, if the machine creates an avatar of those present and junko's bits were present in all of them going in, would that not be enough for her to get an avatar?

So far we've got a hand. Wanna bet Fuyuhiko got an eye?

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

So if Hajime was the one in the flashback are we going on the assumption he's the one that planted the virus?

I guess that would explain why he's the only Reserve student who didn't off himself, if he had a job to do. But that's going to be a bit awkward for him once it has time to sink it.

e: I guess that technically means he walked off with Monokuma in his pocket if we're going for the idea they all took a souvenir. Although I'd easily believe Nagito was just loving nuts even by the Despair Club's standards.

Zoe fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Feb 26, 2018

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


Actually, now that I think about it, was the hand that Komaeda stabbed the same one that was shown to be Junko's?

Bloody Emissary
Mar 30, 2014

Powawa~n


Hobgoblin2099 posted:

Actually, now that I think about it, was the hand that Komaeda stabbed the same one that was shown to be Junko's?

Nah, it was the other one. The Junko hand was the one that held the spear, which...could be a joke about the Spears of Gungnir. Huh.

Insertnamehere31
Jan 22, 2012

This could be the most one-sided fight since 1973 when Ali faced an eighty-foot tall mechanical Joe Frazier. My memory isn't what it used to be, but I think the entire Earth was destroyed.



Carbon dioxide posted:

Because Naegi can convince them to stay and that seems to be what Monokuma-virus wants.


THAT'S WRONG!!! Have my truth bullet:


The dead people are treated as absences and not counted. So, there only needs to be a majority among the living. They could vote right now, like Kazuichi said. The real problem is what Monokuma says just after: he still has the final say. The only way out is Naegi's third option, which Monokuma doesn't know about, because Naegi hijacked Alter Ego's connection.

That makes sense, I just went off the assumption that "absent" was a category of vote similar to abstaining the same way "graduate" and "repeat" are to yea and nay.

And I think with that flashback and the lack of anyone else's presence it's very likely that Hajime is the one who brought the usb with the virus on it to the island. That scene's dialogue also heavily hints that Hajime(?) is extremely talented and either doesn't know or doesn't remember nagito which throws a wrench into the theory that he was one of the remnants of despair. It's possible that Hajime and the super talent murder man are the same person, but I have no idea why he had the virus yet didn't know Nagito or vice versa.

Deadmeat5150
Nov 21, 2005

OLD MAN YELLS AT CLAN


Insertnamehere31 posted:

That makes sense, I just went off the assumption that "absent" was a category of vote similar to abstaining the same way "graduate" and "repeat" are to yea and nay.

And I think with that flashback and the lack of anyone else's presence it's very likely that Hajime is the one who brought the usb with the virus on it to the island. That scene's dialogue also heavily hints that Hajime(?) is extremely talented and either doesn't know or doesn't remember nagito which throws a wrench into the theory that he was one of the remnants of despair. It's possible that Hajime and the super talent murder man are the same person, but I have no idea why he had the virus yet didn't know Nagito or vice versa.

So Hajime is what, Super High School Level Reserve Student?

FPzero
Oct 20, 2008

Game Over
Return of Mido



Click here to watch this update's video!





: The game actually uses the normal version of this track for the debate but like...why? They literally made a unique 8-bit version of it and use it once during the whole game. Once!





: Th-There's obviously some kind of mistake...
: There's no way we're Ultimate Despair!
: Because you're all Ultimate Despair...
: You killed your friends and family...
: ...and you even destroyed your own bodies!
: How can you say we did all that!?
: We're being tricked...
: We're being tricked by the Future Foundation!
: To doubt hope...
: How much despair is within you guys!?

We're...Ultimate Despair...? That's not possible! I need to organize the information... If I organize it, I'll probably be able to...!

: Conveniently, we were just handed what we need to proceed. There's something fishy about Nagito's left hand in that memory...



> Shoot "destroyed your own bodies" with "Vision of Nagito"









: If that memory I felt was actually a memory from the real world... What Nagito did was...



: H-He cut off his own arm... And...transplanted a woman's arm?



: Not just any woman's arm... It was the late Junko Enoshima's arm.
: Wh-What did you say!?
: He probably thought that by becoming one with Junko Enoshima, he could make her survive within him.



: I-I don't get this at all!
: The Ultimate Despairs defy understanding. They have no problem severing their own limbs...
: I-I am terribly sorry...I do not feel so well... Where is the bathroom?
: It's just a game anyway...so why don't you just let it out? I'm pretty sure a select few would demand that.
: It's too soon to feel sick. That's not even the worst thing the Ultimate Despairs have done...





: Some wasted away to skin and bones through continuous fasting in order to reach the despair of starvation...



: Others gave their own families to Junko just to perform killing experiments on them.



: Not just that... After Junko's death, they slaughtered countless people by forcing them to commit suicide.



: One person even implanted one of Junko's eyes into their own socket. Perhaps they wanted to see her despair?



: And not just that, some even tried to have children with Junko's dead body...



: J-JUST STOOOOOOOOOP!
: Th-That's just a bullshit story...! That's obviously bullshit!
: So you feel despair toward yourselves in the real world... I understand that feeling...



: But there's no need to worry! If you just advance toward the hope I provide, you'll definitely be saved!
: Save...? You'll save us...?
: Of course...that's my purpose, after all. That's why the Neo World Program was created, too.



: You put us inside this program...so that you can save us?
: Essentially, your cohabitation inside the Neo World Program was just a simulation.
: If we removed the memories of your time at Hope's Peak Academy, would it also remove your Ultimate Despair...?



: So you're saying this was like a test...?
: I guess I can say that the test was a success. Even though it deviated greatly from the original plan of graduating after gathering the Hope Fragments...
: Nevertheless, you guys were able to overcome your unexpected trials and make your way here.



: That's why...all you need to do is choose "Graduate."
: I-If we do that...we can get outta here!?
: However, if you "graduate" from here, your school memories will never return.

...Huh?



: If you choose to graduate, and the Observer determines that there are no problems, you will complete the Hope Restoration Program and your avatar will be uploaded into your real body.
: U-Uploaded...?

It means...by uploading our avatar's memories into our bodies, we're also forcibly erasing our past selves...

...That's why it's called the Hope Restoration Program. So that...is the Neo World Program.




: H-Hey...what happens to the people whose avatars died?
: If an avatar that needs to be uploaded has been deleted, there's nothing we can do...
: So you're sayin' they'll never wake up...!
: God dammit...!
: God drat loving shiiiiiiiiiiiiit!



: Ahem! Please take a look at this flipbook for a quick rundown of your options!





: If you choose "Graduate", it'll transfer your in-game memories but your school memories will be gone forever. Unfortunately, the people who have already died will not be able to wake up.



: Just a thought...what will happen if we do not choose to graduate?
: ...You'll just have to continue living your tropical life.
: Hey...why you gotta ask somethin' like that?



: W-Well...even if we wake up in the real world, we are all rather messed up, right?
: If that is the case...then maybe staying on this island is...



: Wh-What are you sayin'!? Haven't we been working this hard just to escape from here!?
: You don't have to force yourself to return to a painful reality. Let's just play this game forever and ever.
: D-Don't be ridiculous! If I stay in this screwed up world any longer, I'm seriously gonna snap!
: But still...is it really okay to sacrifice the others just to save ourselves...?



: You're askin' that *now*!? If we don't get outta here now, then what was everything we've done till now even for!?

You're...right... We've been desperately trying to survive until we can finally leave this place... If we don't get out of here now, all the deaths we've endured will be in vain...

I...know this...but...


: Puhuhuhuhu...!





...Something's not right.



...How come Monokuma isn't trying to stop us? Is he just going to stay quiet and overlook us getting out of this game world?



Then...everything Monokuma did would be pointless, too. Not only that...




: ...



Is...it really okay for us to believe him?

Should...we get out? Or...




: Hajime's right. Something definitely doesn't feel correct here. I don't think it's safe for us to leave just yet.



> ...





: Wait...can we have some time to decide...?
: Did you get scared like Sonia!?
: No, it's not that... Don't you think this is a little strange?
: Strange...? You still don't understand?
: Normally, Ultimate Despairs like you guys would just be abandoned...





: But I'm telling you I'm here to help! You should be thankful for how open-minded the Future Foundation is!
: M-Makoto? What has happened to you...?
: Just listen to the Future Foundation! The Future Foundation...is the world's hope, you know!?



: I knew it...



: Just as I thought...there's something wrong with you!

BlackPersona
Oct 21, 2012




FPzero posted:



: And not just that, some even tried to have children with Junko's dead body...

Talow
Dec 26, 2012




I'll be honest, it never crossed my mind that the two groups could be one and the same. also, hi Makoto... wait, what's going on with you?

FoolyCharged
Oct 11, 2012

Somebody call for an ant?



Notkoto, getting gunned down by an automatic weapon is kind of the opposite of suicide! Don't worry though, man. I mix those up all the time too!

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!


FPzero posted:

: And not just that, some even tried to have children with Junko's dead body...
: J-JUST STOOOOOOOOOP!



What the gently caress, Kodaka?

MarquiseMindfang
Jan 6, 2013



Yyyyyyyep.

I don't think I want to know who did that one. Fuyuhiko's obviously the eye. Do the rest correspond to people in the room? Akane starving herself would be in opposition to her ravenous self, and Sonia's parents are presumably king and queen...

Robindaybird
Aug 21, 2007

Neat. Sweet. Petite.



MarquiseMindfang posted:

Yyyyyyyep.

I don't think I want to know who did that one. Fuyuhiko's obviously the eye. Do the rest correspond to people in the room? Akane starving herself would be in opposition to her ravenous self, and Sonia's parents are presumably king and queen...

the hair reminds me of Mikan, and she's clearly over the moon in love with Junko

resurgam40
Jul 22, 2007

Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?


....Yyyyyyeah. I genuinely like this series, I really do; it's crazy and silly, but it's my kind of crazy and silly. Kodaka's writing and directing isn't for everyone, but if he is writing and directing his own thing, it's generally from good to great; there are moments of I believe genuine greatness. But sometimes... he gets specific. I don't know if it's because he bows to presure from the fans and the studio, or if he genuinely misjudges his ability to portray certain acts, but whatever the reason, he is regrettably not content with leaving it up to the audience to imagine the horribleness of horrible things. It is the great problem with writing an effective villain, a monster that escalates in threat from story to story, that a lot of writers fall into, particularly in comics, that medium who's stories can last for months: it happened with Carnage, it happened with the Joker, it keeps happening with The Walking Dead, that bastion of pointless nihilism... it happened with a whole bunch of characters who are gleefully shot across every kind of moral threshold in service of making THE BIGGEST AND MOST TERRIBLE CHALLENGE YET. When dealing with a world-ending threat, it is not enough to have a murderer or a thief as a villain, you must go bigger, and thus we have what we have: patricide, mutilation, pushing people into suicide, and... other things. And it does. Not. Work. It obliterates the tone, and runs the risk of becoming insulting if the author has no real conception of of the things he's talking about. This was a silly mystery story about hope and despair, and now you want to bring necrophilia in there? Geez.

(I wish I could say this was the worst of it, but we have DR3 and UDG, where we can see what happens when someone else directs Kodaka's work. It's bad, and not even in an interesting way- it manages the trick of being both boring and offensive at once. Thankfully, V3 is mostly free of such moments, and the good-great moments genuinely do outweigh the yucky stuff, at least for me, so I hope that gets done by somebody in a manner that allows discussion.)

In other news, how bout them... uh... Warriors? They seem to be doing well! (At this one game going on now I just looked up)

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Zoe
Jan 19, 2007


Hair Elf

FPzero posted:


: And not just that, some even tried to have children with Junko's dead body...




Uh. All right then.

Moving on!

Yeah, something weird is going on now. 'You should be thankful for how open-minded the Future Foundation is!' doesn't line up with the emails we read and Naegi doing this much yelling is a bit out of character anyway, even for future apocalypse Naegi.

So guessing this is in fact...Not Naegi? Between this and Nagito, how many fake out Naegis are we going to get?

Wonder if this is where the Imposter gets worked back into the plot since I'm still kinda sorta clinging to that theory.

  • Locked thread