Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


I think this may have been brought up last time through this trial, but I still wonder: what was Nagito's actual plan once he had the knife?

He's under a table in a dark room filled with his fellow students holding a glowing knife. How is he going to find and stab one of the others, and if he successfully manages that, how does he avoid being accused at the trial? If he has enough light to see another student and kill them, all the other students have enough light to see him.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


LonelyMudkip posted:

I guess the ticket will be used to prove that Hajime couldn't be the killer. Being the only person to see the broadcast and also the only person to see Ibuki's body before Hiyoko's body would make him seem pretty suspicious.

Reading through again (after the first thread), I notice that the ticket proves nothing of the sort. Hajime could have been told about the movie by either of the two victims before he murdered them.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

It is certainly possible that the killer destroyed the monitor at the music venue, but it could also make as much sense (or more) if the music venue monitor was from another set. The killer could have used the music venue monitor to keep tabs on Hajime to make sure he saw the video and ran out as planned. They would have had to hide the monitor of course, but it's small compared to the stepladder they also had to hide.

If they merely destroyed the music venue monitor, sure they could still have filmed the scene with the camera, but they wouldn't have had any way of knowing when Hajime started watching and when he ran out.

The killer knew Hajime was going down to check the hospital monitor. In fact, the only person who could logically have set up and executed this chain of events must be that one person who knew precisely when Hajime would go check the hospital monitor; otherwise, the killer is standing in the conference room waiting for Hajime to appear and hoping nobody looks in the room first.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Zoe posted:

The one doing the most to keep people optimistic and on track up to this point has been Chiaki.

Which really really worries me because it means her odds of her getting killed/being a killer for whatever batshit reasons the game comes up with, or being revealed to be a spy are that much higher.

Additionally, there's a Monomi mini-game the last LP showed off which involves her clearing the Monobeasts. I always thought the Super Gamer was an obvious person to be controlling Monomi for that, and it'd explain why Chiaki seems sleepy much of the time.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


FoolyCharged posted:

My opinions on that theory should be visible in the unspoiled killer guesses.

Gundham is going to be so sad after those little murderers get the punishment.

Well, the motive would indeed be starvation, but not the starvation we expected to be the motive.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Double Punctuation posted:

I guess he saw the layout of the buildings. That's pretty useful.

Clearly the elevator is a vertical one after all, and that hatch goes down from Strawberry House to Grape House. Which means that the Grape Tower floor must elevate to the Strawberry Tower level. Furthermore, if one House is immediately above the other, those doors must rotate when the Grape Tower floor ascends.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


VibrantPareidolia posted:

I had that idea too, but then... that can't be because the hallway to get to the tower is on the opposite side for each house. If the elevator is indeed vertical, and the tower is the same, then it and the hallways have to be on the same side for both houses.

I'd been assuming that the elevator's lack of motion means it moves slowly, and there's evidence for that. Looking back to Chapter 4, part 9, I see Nagito says "It doesn't feel like we're moving extremely fast. It seems it's moving very slowly... If so... The two houses might be surprisingly close." I don't think Gorilla Salad's theory can be correct as the elevator would need to spin 180 degrees for the same door to let them into both houses, although I suppose if it's slow enough that might work. But clearly the tower is only entered from one side and I suspect that one of the two unused doors leads outside the fun house entirely. (For that matter, if the central corridor moves and not the tower, then you'd think the students would notice the motion as it would have to be faster. Suggesting that the interior of the tower is what moves rapidly.) The other alternative would seem to be that the two houses move and the elevator stands still.

The hallways being on the same side is absolutely a key to solving the murder, I suspect. In particular, the question of what happens to the things inside the Tower when the "call button" is pressed.

The other question is what can be seen outside the window. Is the other House immediately adjacent, and thus connected by a secret tunnel under that hatch? Or is it visible beneath?

Narsham fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Sep 18, 2017

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Well, houses being adjacent confirmed. But it looks like the Tower may move and rotate as well. Also, poor Nagito finds out his true love isn't an Ultimate AND believes this murder is actually a suicide... no wonder he's tetchy.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


amigolupus posted:

Chiaki - Said some odd things that makes her sound like she knew what's inside the Octagon. Probably a misunderstanding, since she's been against the killings and has been helpful in trials from the very start.

Monomi has seen at least some of it, and I expect Chiaki is the "traitor" operating her or at least in communication with her. But it's a simple deduction that all the material used in the murder that wasn't carried into the Houses by students must have its origin in the Octagon.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Mikl posted:

- At 7.30 AM the alarm clock goes off, and wakes up the guys, who go to turn it off. At the same time, the killer pushes the grape house button, the room moves (upwards or downwards, it's an elevator), and the cable pulls the heavy column on top of Mechamaru. CRUNCH, Mechamaru's dead; the door handle comes off, pulled by the metal cable, and Akane and the guys (minus Nagito) hear the crashing sound.

If he was killed by the heavy column falling atop him, why is there rubble from the column underneath his body?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Zoe posted:

Someone else had to have been through the Final Dead Room before Nagito, because the hammer, etc. would have had to come from there.

Reading back a bit, I'm almost wondering about Chiaki, seeing how she stopped us from going in ourselves, and as a gamer the lure of winning something called the 'Ultimate Weapon' after beating a challenge may have been too much to resist?

Not possible of course because Chiaki is a sweet person and the best. :3 But the only other suspect I have is Souda, and there's still the problem there that he's just too obvious.

That one's easy. Mechamaru went through the Final Dead Room. We know for certain that he could have passed the Russian Roulette test. This is why Nagito is convinced that this murder was suicide. But it's clearly a case of assisted suicide.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Things we can infer:
1. The killer reset the clocks so that he and Mechamaru would be alone. That's only necessary if Mechamaru is not a willing participant.

2. Equipment used was only available by running the Dead Room gauntlet. Nagito may be ignoring the possibility of someone else getting lucky and assuming Mechamaru ran it.

3. The killer was desperate enough to risk death even prior to knowing and having what was needed to commit this murder.

On motive, I still think that starving hamsters is the most likely, especially if Mechamaru was not a willing sacrifice.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


amigolupus posted:

I have to say I didn't see Mechamaru being woken up by his alarm as the cause of him falling down. I'm surprised no one brought up the possibility that the door knob couldn't have supported Mechamaru's weight though.

It was established how tough the door handle was when Mechamaru tried to move it--that probably gave the killer the idea but it also provided a key piece of evidence in the case. I'm liking the design of this mystery, even if the students seem to be behaving particularly stupidly (What room goes up and down? How can multiple clocks be wrong?).

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


This looks initially bad for Chiaki, assuming (as I have) that she's the "traitor"/teacher in this scenario, because if she is then she swiped Nagito's student handbook instead of her own in order to prove that she's not the traitor. But it's also possible that she came across the body subsequent to his murder, or that she's not the traitor.

Somebody removed the other fire extinguishing materials, and somebody rigged up the fire. Why? What was being destroyed besides the plushies, and what was the point of the fire beyond revealing Nagito's body? For that matter, where did the music come from?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Actually I meant that just because Sonia had the least time needed to spend searching doesn't actually mean she was the most likely to have done it, because other people could have decided NOT to search or more likely, ran into Nagito while searching and then decided to drag him somewhere and interrogate him.

If Sonia was searching the center island, anyone going from their assigned island was at risk of being spotted by her. Expect that to come up.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

I think you guys are really stretching with that. But the game is a LOT more idiotic than I think at times.

Plus, if Nagito really wants to be the symbol of hope for everyone else, it doesn't make sense to arrange his death to be so impossible to solve and connected to swiping the book so that the book-swiper gets executed even though they had no idea that would kill anyone. That would be one twist too far.

It's much more likely that the fireworks going off was the signal to Nagito to let go of the spear thing, not an automatic trigger (which would be more the mechanic's specialty anyway). Simpler and more in character than trying to get some random person executed. If that's really what he wanted he could have just killed them himself.

We know Nagito found out who the traitor was, and presumably found out what she was up to. Presuming that Chiaki is the traitor--a teacher at the school, or at least a graduate, who brought these students here in the name of Hope set against Despair, making her a champion of Hope and a traitor against Despair--how would Hope-fanatic Nagito respond?

It seems highly plausible that he'd engineer a situation where the traitor has to reveal herself by being put in a position to either be the only survivor, or has to work out that she was technically responsible for Nagito's death and then confess both to that AND to being the traitor in order to save all the others.

The potential flaw in this theory: what would Nagito have done if Chiaki hadn't scanned in? Then again, betting on Hope is what Nagito is all about, in a really twisted and self-destructive way.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Brilliant! I guess we know what was in those Fire Grenades now. He used the gloves and gas mask to fill one, some or most of them up with this poison, knowing that people would throw the grenades at the burning curtain and that, being as he was on the floor, he'd get a rapid lethal dose. That also explains why the Monokuma file has no cause of death listed. Presumably he stopped holding onto the cord when the poison killed him and got Grungir'ed at that point.

Now the big question is whether he only put the poison in a single grenade, in which case one student was his exclusive and unwitting murderer, or whether he put poison in multiple grenades, making it difficult or impossible to tell which student killed him. Depends on who he wanted to make things harder for, the students or Monokuma.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

It would have to be all the grenades, otherwise the rest would have worked at putting out the fire.

No, simply replace the contents of the other grenades with something that won't put out the fire and it'll work fine.

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Once again, I have to say that making other students unintentionally becoming the one who murdered him is completely out of character. AND in addition, it would be incredibly unsatisfying for the audience as well if the murderer who got executed never intended on killing someone, but only became a killer because Literally God had a perfect Plan for suicide. If the killer gets executed even though there was no intent on the part of the killer, that's unsatisfying.

I don't think this one was aimed at the students. It's all about Monokuma (and Monomi) and the people responsible for what's going on. Remember that Nagito got in to the "school" and had access to reams of additional information. What happens if Monokuma himself doesn't know who the murderer is?

I admit that the alternative is someone else got into Nagito's room and planted this evidence or convinced Nagito to assist them in his own death. The evidence pretty strongly indicates that Nagito was complicit in his death, though. Recall that we've had at least one other student behave "out of character" after recovering lost memories, so we clearly need more information to determine whether what happened departs from the expected. This game really isn't motive-centric most of the time anyway, revealing why most of the killings happened after the evidence has exposed the killer.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


I've never been entirely sure the extent to which Monami must be operated by someone or is an independent robot, but either her operator is elsewhere instead of running her, or the actual Monami is elsewhere. No reaction at all to Monokuma? Not a chance!

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Could it be that Nagito's cause of death isn't listed in the file, even though it appears obvious?

Anyway, I still do not believe that this is a ploy to get the traitor and ONLY the traitor killed by execution for unintentionally murdering Nagito.

No, but I have a better suspicion now: supposing Nagito put the poison into one and only one fire grenade. Perhaps he marked it in some way. If he did Monokuma knows who threw it because he records everything.

But we know that inside the school, the traitor apparently also has access to cameras and recording equipment.

If the only way to identify the killer is through equipment that only the traitor can access, then the traitor would be forced to reveal herself (or himself, but my guess is on record) in order to prevent everyone from being executed.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

That doesn't make any sense.

Specifically: That still cannot be proven. There is still no way to prove beyond any doubt that only one and one specific fire grenade had the poison in it, and there is still no way to prove that specific grenade was thrown by the traitor, and even if the "traitor" was willing to sacrifice themselves - which I sure as hell wouldn't be for a bullshit "heads I win tails you lose" setup like this - they still would be taking a guess because even they have no actual way of knowing whether or not they did it. And no "Nagito is literally god and can do literally anything" is not in the Truth Bullet list.

I see the following possibilities (to reiterate some points I've made previously and add a few more):
1. Nagito poisoned one of the grenades. It was marked or in some way distinguishable, or at the least its position on the pile could be determined by watching the camera recordings. Monokuma could thus observe which student picked up and subsequently threw the grenade. That student is the murderer. Nagito knew that the traitor, and only the traitor, had access to the same recordings, and could therefore uncover the same information, but not without publicly exposing themselves (because nobody would believe that evidence unless they understood how it had been gathered).

2. Nagito put a little poison in every one of the grenades. Monokuma is unable to precisely determine which thrown grenade released the specific cloud of poison which killed Nagito. The blackened is therefore unknown. If the students vote for anyone as the killer, Monokuma rules that they are wrong and kills them all. Only by working out that the killer cannot be determined and refusing to vote for anyone can the students successfully pass the trial, breaking the structure of the system in the process.

3. Nagito put a little poison in every one of the grenades. Monokuma can determine from the recordings which grenade killed Nagito. Reduces to case 1 above (traitor must reveal new information).

4. Nagito put a little poison in every one of the grenades. Monokuma is unable to precisely determine which thrown grenade released the specific cloud of poison which killed Nagito. The students argue that therefore, they should all be considered the blackened, and they should all get to leave the island. I can't see Monokuma accepting that meekly, but in this instance, voting for a deceased student gets them all freed. I am doubtful that this is the outcome, but it's an interesting thought-experiment.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


FPzero posted:

And draws!

Looks like my theory she was one of the teachers has been refuted.

On the plus side, we now know why she asked Hajime to search the bookshelf. She couldn't show him the journal herself because she couldn't directly reveal herself to be the traitor.

I admit it will be a hell of a twist to find out Chiaki is the robot and Monomi is operating her.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Stroth posted:

It was only three lines though. The ultimate insult.

And he didn't even use a "T" or "L" piece. Jerk.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Have they tried turning their Hajime off and on again?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Deadmeat5150 posted:

So that's why Nagito has Junko Ocelot's hand sewn on. He was hoping to bring her back. Or something like that.

Clearly each of them took a part of Junko's body with them, to remember her by and to make each of them part of Ultimate Despair.

Who wants to start the betting pool for who has which part?

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


They really are remarkably stupid, aren't they? Ultimate Despair doesn't expect to get anything out of their graduating by lying to them about all their friends coming back to life? Really?

Post no bills, push no buttons.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


Clearly, the only solution now is for somebody to hack the Gibson. Hack the Planet!

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008


FPzero posted:

Ah well, if you can't have fun while making an LP, then why make one in the first place? Between looping the debate, changing my Narration icon to match the breakdown of reality in places, and figuring out how to convert an animation-heavy endgame into screenshot updates I had fun doing this whole ending sequence. And to think, I had ideas for it I ultimately scrapped, but I'll talk about them another time.

One final update comes tomorrow. Then bonus content can begin at a later date.

Good screenshot choices, especially for the last update. More powerful at the end then the video, which doesn't end with the Chapter 6 card but with a "Hey, you got a Giant Cell Phone" notification (though I assume this is a joke about the Junkophone?).

  • Locked thread