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Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



If Nagito set up a trap to get someone to unwittingly kill him, wouldn't that count as a suicide? He was the one that willed it to happen.

My personal guess is that it won't be any of the six survivors and we'll finding out more about Monomi or Monokuma.

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Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



I'm guessing this case is a suicide based 100% on Nagito's death portrait having a specially-designed X, like all the killers do.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Vexrm posted:

What is the animal trainers X? I can't make it out.

It's a Times New Roman X. More gothic.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



I love the way everyone's looking to Chiaki to be the mystery-solver when she clearly doesn't want to be.

Every case we've had it seems like she'd already figured out the answer - either before the trials or as they played out - but was too slow and shy to just go explaining it so she was trying to lead the others (especially Hajime) into saying it for her. To the point of pretty quickly doing all her investigating with Hajime so she could show him what she's thinking in advance.

Which could easily lead to her being the traitor if she's got reasons she can't just give the answer away. On the other hand, if it's just her personality, that would make her exactly the kind of person that's the best at video games.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Hmm. The graphic on the case file shows an injury on his left hand too, even though we've seen nothing of the sort. That's the only thing I can see that doesn't add up.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



I think people theorised this earlier in the mystery. Nagito filled one of the fire grenades with poison, relying on his luck to ensure that that one gets taken by the person he was trying to draw out. That person, unwittingly, killed him. So they'd have to sacrifice themselves to save everyone else.

...possibly. It was still Nagito's plan, Nagito's methods, and the actual killer wouldn't have even known they were doing it. If it weren't a suicide it'd be pretty unambiguous that the mastermind was the real murderer here. In this case it might be a little unclear which way Monokuma would judge it.

Though I'm not sure this really forces the traitor to out themselves. If the gang still nominates Nagito as a suicide - since that'd be the best option available if no one claims it - then either Monokuma agrees, and everyone survives, or Monokuma disagrees, and the traitor survives. The outcome Nagito is looking for is the only one where the traitor would lose, and it depends on them making that sacrifice.

Although maybe his real aim was to get everyone to unify, and hold onto their hope in each other despite the knowledge of the traitor.

But on the other hand, he really seemed to lose faith in the other characters' ability to embody hope.


...what the hell, Nagito.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



FPzero posted:

: On a definitely not related note, I wonder who people think the traitor might be? Is there actually still a traitor? Are they still alive? Are they already dead? Who could it possibly be......? And how does it all tie in? Or does it tie in at all yet?
: Hmm, it's hard to say...

Let's look at the possibilities...


1. Chiaki Nanami
The thread seemed to favour the idea that she is the traitor. She slipped into the role of the protagonist's partner after Nagito flipped his lid, and has been a reliable aid the entire time - in fact, I'm not sure if she's disagreed with Hajime even once this entire game. She's at least the only character not to have had that sword minigame against us yet.
She seems to figure out every trial, but is shy about giving the answers. She doesn't get a lot of sleep. There's a decent possibility that she is spending her time in communication with the outside, or possibly programming Monomi in some way. On the other hand, all of those could also just be the kind of person she is.

2. Nagito Komaeda
He's been everyone's antagonist since the first trial (barring Monokuma, the actual antagonist). He'd be a very natural fit as the traitor of the group - almost too easy.
My main evidence for it is just a theory - that the kids on the island were all on the Despair side of the big conflict in the outside world, and the Future Foundation captured them, wiped their memories and put them on this island as a sort of rehabilitation until Monokuma took over. If that were the case, it's hard to imagine Nagito fighting alongside them, and easy to imagine him volunteering to infiltrate them. Of course, this depends on that theory being true.
On the other hand, he was quite committed to unmasking the traitor, and even claimed to know who it is. It could have all been an act, or a roundabout way of confessing it with the killing here. He's unpredictable, so it's hard to say.

3. Hajime Hinata
The protagonist. He's had his memories wiped, which could include memories of not being part of the group originally. We know he wasn't part of the class originally, which is a supporting point. If he turns out to be the traitor, and turns out to be the killer in this crime as a result, that would make a nice parallel to case 5 of the first game, where Naegi took the punishment before being saved by Alter Ego - there might even be a similar deus ex machina floating around in the fact that Gundam's hamsters are still alive.
There's not really a lot of evidence for it, though, and if he is the traitor it's more a fact of backstory and certainly not part of his actions in the game, unless some sort of unreliable narrator contrivance turned up.

4. Byakuya Togami
An easy guess as a possibility in the early game, the fact that he's been dead for four chapters would probably disqualify him. Except... the Ultimate Impostor had attention drawn to him recently. There's no details as to who he really was, but confirming he was an impostor confirms that the real Togami did not die. Why do that, narratively? Togami being there was a good mystery hook to get us into the game, but why confirm right at the end that we didn't see the real one die, if not to bring him in? I think it's for sure that Togami is going to be involved in the remainder of the plot. Perhaps he's been hiding on the island the entire time. And if so, as we know he's one of the future-builders from the last game, he would be the traitor.

5. Someone else
None of the other characters still alive seem like likely candidates to me. They've all got their own solid gimmicks going and characters in these games tend to have exactly two dimensions. At most, it would be pure surprise - which this game isn't above doing, but it wouldn't be very satisfying for the solution to this mystery to be something with no evidence.

6. No, someone else
I mean, I guess it's possible that another character we've never heard of could come out of nowhere and turn out to be betraying them all from the shadows. I guess.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



The bomb wasn't disabled, though. It was just a pile of fireworks, to which went off. I'm not sure that stunt is reasonable evidence, it was just an excuse to set up this murder.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



dancingbears posted:

And in any case, the ruling ultimately comes down to the judge, who has explicitly stated that the killer is whoever threw the poison.

Technically, he said the killer is whoever made Nagito breathe the poison. Which carefully didn't confirm it is whoever threw it.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Is Hajime tearing up a bit at the end there?

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Okay, the presentation in this section was fantastic. Changing up the music and the audio cues like that. No one wants to be doing this.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



That pause.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Narsham posted:

And he didn't even use a "T" or "L" piece. Jerk.

Half of them weren't even valid tetris pieces!

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



So are we now at a smaller cast than the last game ended?

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Although by that point it was established Monokuma was running a twisted reality show to broadcast their despair to the world. There's been no indication of that here, at least so far. Monokuma's motives and indeed identity remain a mystery. The only thing I can be reasonably sure of is that whoever is behind Monokuma wasn't personally familiar with the class (based on Gundham's execution).

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Stroth posted:

What? What about that gives you that idea?

Monokuma builds his executions around making them as excruciating as possible for his victims, often in an ironic way. And for Gundham, it was perfectly built... for his persona. He was carried off to heaven by fluffy kitten angels, something that for a self-proclaimed demon lord of night or whatever would be utterly humiliating.
But it wasn't, because that's not who Gundham really was. Under all the roleplay he was a gentle and caring person. Monokuma completely ignored his hamsters, and Gundham got to die smiling because he knew they were safe.

It doesn't take much interaction with him to figure out that's what he's really about, but if you haven't had that you wouldn't expect it. That's my basis for thinking whoever is behind Monokuma didn't know him - and, by extension, wasn't involved with their class.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



So if this is a simulation, they've all been projected into their bodies at school age. Which also explains things like Nagito's hand.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



FPzero posted:

death death death death death death death death death death death death death death death death death death

I love that song!

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Sonia might well have broken down if her homeland fell.
Same with Gundham and his animals. Losing something they cherish could easily have driven either to despair.

Nidai is trickier to imagine. He's all about firing you up; what could drive him to espouse hopelessness?

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Nephrite posted:

The 8-bit debate music is loving amazing.

'cause it's a game!

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Hobgoblin2099 posted:

I have to wonder why Komaeda's name is an anagram of "Naegi Makoto da" if he never even tries to pretend to be Naegi nor looks like him at all.

I recall reading somewhere in this thread it was actually an accident, and they were just trying to make a name that was reminiscent of Naegi's.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Zoe posted:

I mean I know we have to have the dramatic reveals and stuff and I'm happy all the final bits of what's actually going on are falling into place but ultimately it's not like them not deciding to graduate is a realistic possibility, so it's kind of a weird non-choice to hang all the tension on. 'Just hang out here in a virtual world in the absolute power of this wacky adorable bear who's been forcing you all to kill each other for fun' can't be all that attractive an alternative if they think about if for like, five seconds. If nothing else the rest of the Future Foundation deciding to smother the evil despair club with pillows while they're plugged in and helpless might be a possibility they should worry about.

I think they're not meant to choose to graduate, nor are they meant to choose to stay. There's a third, hidden option that they first need to figure out exists at all. At least, that's what Naegi implied earlier.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



FoolyCharged posted:

I mean, if the machine creates an avatar of those present and junko's bits were present in all of them going in, would that not be enough for her to get an avatar?

That is complete and utter nonsense.

So I'd call it the leading theory at the moment.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Man, I forgot how much fun Junko is.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



EponymousMrYar posted:

Considering memory shenanigans are at hand here, I'm betting that Junko's new Graduation Program is going to reset them to before they got into the Neo World Program. So they can do their despair thing more.

So uh, yeah. Let's not do that, Push Nothing.

Her infographic showed the five of them would keep their island memories. But it made no guarantees for the ones who come back to life. It would also fit with what's possible by the rules laid out in the game - with their memories of the island they already believe they're dead and can't come back, but if their avatars are deleted and their original memories restored they're fine.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



So that explains the POV of the Nagito flashback.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



ApplesandOranges posted:

Also, it's obvious, but people should listen to this part just for the Imposter's voice.

It takes the ultimate imposter to impersonate someone without looking, sounding or acting like them!

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



Rarity posted:

Real suggestion: quit the game

Yeah this feels a lot like a meta-game prompt so I'm gonna go with this one.

Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



dancingbears posted:

That is to say, I'm like 95% certain this ending is Izuru double crossing Junko. Before he went under, he hacked the program and left a backdoor for himself, should Hajime notice it, that lets him totally screw over Junko and ruin her entire plan in front of her face, presumably to spite her for getting him involved in the Tragedy of Hope's Peak.

Well, that's really the only way I can make sense of the ending, so...

That's a fair guess. Izuru seems to have been the one to bring Junko into the simulation, so he might well have been trying to set up this whole scenario in the first place. Certainly if he could bring Junko back, he could keep the other virtual characters alive. Maybe the whole stunt was his means of reviving Hajime, for whatever purpose he might have had.

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Tenebrais
Sep 2, 2011



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