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werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Nameless only made it through the second Stratum but they already have like a farm's worth of animals. I'm sure many peasants had far less than five chickens, two cows and that bird.

Which begs the question: Where do all these animals live? Does Genette give them their own rooms? Or is there enough space around the inn?
I know that animals were common in medieval cities but I always figured the town next to an Yggdrasil tree were tightly packed capitals, rich and important because of the labyrinths.
Genetta's sisters must be working hard to be able to effort so much premium real estate...

Also I can not help but picture Nameless sitting at the bar, drinking, eating, celebrating while suddenly Genetta comes running by, chasing a bunch of animals down the street and politely asks them to return to the inn while she also promises not to eat them.
I know the chances are slim but it would be great if there was a "Quona looks for the hung-over guard's ID-card"-esque quest/event that has you running around town (and talking to everyone) to find your guild's animals because Genetta has lost them...

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werbear
Jan 14, 2017


So these new F.O.E.s

- (only?) activate if you step next to their pretty obvious spawn point
- only take one step for every two steps you take
- only start chasing you if they have a direct line of vision
- get killed by floor tiles that do nothing to you

Either they are the weakest F.O.E.s since EO3 as some sort of joke or they are destruction incarnate, throwing out multi-hit instant-death attack that leave every survivor blinded/paralyzed/panicked/stunned and get stronger every turn.
With how the game makes sure they never catch you I can not see any middle-ground here...

werbear fucked around with this message at 09:38 on Jan 26, 2017

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

They also respawn very quickly. So even when they're killed by the sun, they'll be back in a couple dozen steps.

Respawning F.O.E.s? That sounds... ugly. Killing them is my Plan B if I can't be bothered with the puzzle and my Plan A on return trips to the stratum.

I know F.O.E.s sometimes respawn if they are needed to progress but that usually only happens once you exit the room.
To my knowledge only the robots in the 4th Maze of EO4 respawn faster than that (which is a great surprise if you cleared the way forward but have a bot spawn in your back, spot you and resummon the dog you just defeated...)

Still, I am curious how it works out in EO5.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Ragnar Homsar posted:

What Clarste means by "respawning," if my memory serves me right, is that Heretic Sword-Corpse spawn points won't disappear if you just burn one from that point in the sun, but if you actually kill a Heretic Sword-Corpse from that spawn point, the spawn point will disappear for an in-game week.

Ah, now that sounds way better. You can get rid of them the old-fashioned way or can use the sun to give you some breathing room. But going during the day still does not simply remove the threat of the F.O.E.s - it only hinders their assault.
But you have to deal with damage floors in return.

That seems like an interesting design. It looks a bit more like of a trade-off than "F.O.E.s are asleep/awake" that the 3rd Stratum of both EO3 and EO2U offered. Or even compared to the hot/cold mechanic of the 3rd Maze of EO4.
Now the easier option has a downside.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


I just looked through your LP and realized how many updates were cut in half.
So I'd say: go for it.

Etrian Odyssey is a game with clear break points - finishing a floor, completing some quests or at the very least finding another shortcut.
EO2U tried to give us a "save in the dungeon" feature but afaik it's horribly bugged.

I really love the framing of your posts (starting at the Inn with some friendly banter), the narrative, the input of your co-commentators, all the infos like materials and what they unlock.
There is nothing I would want to miss.
So instead of bending your LP to the character limit (or continiously cutting updates in half) I personally think bending the medium on which you present your updates to the needs of the LP is the right way.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Ragnar Homsar posted:

How's that look?

Overall it's fine.
But to give some (hopefully) constructive criticism: on PC the lines are a bit long, running from one edge of the screen to the other.
I don't know how easy it would be to get two inches of border without screwing mobile users over.

If it's even a bit complicated or if no one besides me has a problem with the line length just leave it like that. I can resize my browser window for easier reading.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Looks really good, especially the light grey background.

The big blue boxes feel a bit daunting but that's update 0 for you - there is a lot of stuff you have to talk about at once.
In combination with Edgar's text it works really well. And a quick look over one of your other updates leads me to believe we won't get too many huge splashes of solid color.
If you plan to put enemy bios, gathering point info and/or shop updates in boxes I would suggest you use something really calm and unintrusive - maybe another grey or even just white.

But having your comments in light blue and your co-commentators in stronger colors works well once the gameplay starts since there is enough variety.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017



The boxes work really well as highlights now that they are not the majority of the update.
It's looking good.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


I found a tiny mistake in your transition: While all the other class overviews have their proper names, the page title for the Necromancer one is "Update ##".

Edit:
The skill progression tables for Gunpowder Dragoon: Hypno Cannon and Deeply Compassionate Docter Herbalist: Lingering Scent seem to have been eaten. None of my browsers will display them.

And while bold works just fine, italics seem to cause some problems.
Base Dragoon: Bunker
Adamantine Dragoon: Full Guard
Gunpowder Dragoon: Hypno Cannon
Gunpowder Dragoon: Pillbox
Combo Boxer Cestus: Lead Blow
Reaper initial description
Death-Bringing Reaper: Fresh Blood Slash
Base Warlock: High-Speed Incantation
Necromancer initial description
Necromancer ghost description
Base Hound: Hunter Shot
Falcon-Accompanied Hound: Million Shot
should all have italics in their comments that just did not get translated.
Strangely enough the comment for the Spirit-Summoning Necromancer: Curse Bomb is bold, underlined and italics just fine.

Some images are not getting translated:
Update 2 about 80% down the scroll bar when talking to the first 3F bar patron there is an Item:0x06F2
Update 5 about 50% down on the list for the 5F, B2 Take Point

And some text has [sub] around it so I assume it should be small but just isn't:
Update 4 about 80% down in the banter between Lanzon and Mio after meeting Genetta on 3F
Update 6 right at the top
Update 9 about 40% down between Genetta finishing Friedrich's present and Friedrich's first text box
Update 13 about 50% down after you check your 3DS's battery and before cooking food
Update 15 about 10% down after meeting the guard on 10F and about 70% down after defeating the Hippogriff
Update 16 about 10% down after Sasha got her second name and about 25% down after Jana got hers

werbear fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Feb 17, 2017

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


I really enjoyed the extra bit of story telling. Some fluff that makes your guild seem more alive but is stored extra so it doesn't pad out the actual update is nice.

After completing the Unidentified Seed quest and getting the reward: the screenshot has a 3 in it, the translation a 4.
Are those three the ones "thrown in extra"? Do you actually get something extra for quests without scaling rewards if the dialog tells you so instead of still just getting the reward listed?

Terrible rare material chances, how I loathe them.
Trying to get rare materials in EOU was not fun even with some gathering grimoires.
Especially getting those frozen mantis eggs from worthless chop points was frustrating. And of course I got three of them after spending half an hour to find one, just because Millenium Girl loves to taunt me.

Poison Gas has a somewhat decent infliction chance and deals more than two digits in damage.
It can actually be used for conditionals if you can't inflict poison otherwise. That's neat.

Oh no... The armor was cursed... It gave Remus... a case of ellipses... ... ...

(Also after the grave-digging event the text talks about burrying the corpse in a "whole". Twice.)

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Ragnar Homsar posted:

EO games usually have a few heavy moments like that.

Wulfgar

Looking through the last update again - was there ever something like Rampaging Tree/Creepy Vine where the not-even-a-recolor quest mob drastically changes the mechanic of a monster?
Can you even encounter Creepy Vines before the tree blows up in your face?

Because that would be a nice surprise - expecting a non-damaging party wide head bind (which might not even be that dangerous for your team since Herbalists heal with their arms) and getting a strong splash damage poison attack instead.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

Melina's whole "thing" is that she's a retired explorer who treats all the new explorers like she's an overprotective mother (or older sister, I guess).

Still a better character than "does not like bugs" or... uh... what is the character trait of the Barkeeper in EO/EOU? What even is her name?
But yeah, judging from what I have read in this LP Melina should be the 3rd best Barkeeper after Missy and Cass purely on the bases that she actually has some sort of character.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Ragnar Homsar posted:

Valerie. Her primary character trait was calling you "kiddos" and sometimes being concerned.

Thanks.

Dr. Fetus posted:

Kiritida is the one who didn't like bugs in EO4. I don't think she had anything else outside of that.

Yeah, I even forgot her name. Not that it is mentioned often but then again it's not worth remembering even if it was given with every textbox.
There is something with her good-bye involving Kismet but that's not really a character trait.

alcharagia posted:

I don't think Missy was really that funny.

Often she is not. Sometimes she is a bit irritating, sometimes outright mean spirited.
I still prefer her over many other NPCs just because she actually is a character.
For my taste there are too many townsfolk in EO that are just their function.

Like the first Innkeeper.
Or the forth guild master - who even trains you and stuff! But does he have a personality? Does he even have a name?

Speaking of guild masters:
Have we seen much of Edgar? He was fishing once which already puts him among the most active guild masters. But besides that afair he mostly gave information others had already given us.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Ragnar Homsar posted:

Update 19 is here to spook you, what with the ghosts and skeletons.

It's shortly after midnight here. I don't know if I'm ready

I wasn't ready. drat those ghosts are scary!
Not only is their skill pretty strong, their resistances make them sturdy enough for it to trigger.
It's an interesting way to make a proper mid-game version of the "weak against everything but curses your team"-enemy.

The mental image of a Shaman using Affection by hugging someone that took damage and telling them everything is alright will never leave me...
But it's adorable.

So Magda is can take a drink? Well, she seems immune against whatever there is in her bag so maybe she has all around low chemical resistance values.
Buuut on the off chance that she tests her smokes on herself and is now a bundle of chemicals condensed into the form of a (round eared) Lunarian: On a scale of 1 to 10; how likely is she to spontaniously catch fire?

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


quote:

You thought she was the sole survivor of a group of explorers, but looking closely her dress is far too flimsy to be the equipment of an explorer.

Really, game? You do know one of the available classes is the Necromancer, right?
And Flare Ladies are clearly wearing more than any female Dark Hunters, Troubadours, Wildlings, Dancers or Nightseekers.

Magda posted:

Rather than dignify that, I will point out that you took a throwaway jab from me so seriously that you actually studied how to make magic rocks fall from the ceiling.

Eh, it's more impressive in other games. Being in the labyrinth means there actually always is a ceiling you can simply break rocks off of.
Other mages can make rocks fall out of thin air. Kaelin needs to step up his game.

Was every single little dead end an event on this floor? Was it this extreme on earlier floors and I didn't notice until now?
I always get a bit sad when I find an empty dead end but that seems really excessive.
But then again those events were fun so there is little to complain about.

And we... actively help the other explorers? Maybe that means they don't want to kill us this time...

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

Yeah, but what they are wearing is made out of magic Kevlar or something.

Because of the way damage is calculated in EO3, EO4 and the Untolds even heavy armor feels like it's made of paper mache.
So maybe the borderline naked characters were the true representation of how our party goes into the labyrinth all along...

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


I don't know if you already have another update banner but I made one you can use if you like.

http://i.imgur.com/aAkUK5l.jpg

werbear fucked around with this message at 20:29 on Mar 6, 2017

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


So we are already on the point that no one made it past?
Usually when NPCs start hyping up the next boss you are in for quite the battle. (rear end in a top hat Bird, Scylla, Ketos, ... uh... Berzerker King? Or rather Boiling Lizard)

These secret areas are strange - since they have no new enemies I assume you can just waltz right in on your first exploration? No level requirements to meet or keys to be found?
Well, I guess the rewards are not too outstanding but that makes these secrets even more strange...
Although the skeleton dormitory looked cool.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


So these secret areas are essentially bigger versions of the hidden rooms that contain a single chest?
Interesting yet still strange. I guess finding them is a bit more exciting from an exploration standpoint than finding the small rooms in other titles.

But I assume you can still report your map to Remus even if the secret areas are missing, correct?

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


So there is an enemy that is a coffin filled with mummies.
Its drop is an Empty Casket.
And it's used to build either a Scythe or Heavy Armor but not Coffin weapons for the Necromancer...
Sure, why not.

(Alcharagia's link to the secret Joestar technique has the wrong background color.)

The goblet event is pretty cool. Hallucinations are not used that often in EO probably because they usually try to be rooted more in the ancient technology setting.
This time around they are far more willing to go for outright magic and stuff like necromancy.
("but the other other skeletons keep laughing" - it's right before you lose the 140 TP and I think there's an "other" too much.)

alcharagia posted:

hi my names wiglaf
Wiglaf is excellent at activating Links and that's all she ever needs to do.

Going back to town at this point is so anti-climactic it's hilarious.
"I will hold them off, you go on ahead."
"Yeah, ok. We go back to town. Have fun with the undead."



Anyways:
Gunpowder Sasha, Spirit-Destroying Lanzon, Single Peerless Jana and Does Not Get A Cool Title Dosen

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


And so the saga of "usually this boss is harder" continues.

But your team was pretty drat crazy. No heal, a dodgetank that attacked for a small amount, a support and four damage dealers.
I believe there is only finely ground bone dust left where boss once stood.
It's easy to see that a dodge tank will not work in all situations but when it works - holy drat, it really works.

I think it's a nice attention to detail that the way to the fourth stratum is hidden outside the boss room.
Because the boss is not something guarding the way up but just some maniac that came from the outside and made his home in the labyrinth.
No reason for him to put his hideout right in the middle of the road.
An he would have gotten away with it, too, if it wasn't for that meddling anti-convinience field forcing adventurers his way. (And also Lily.)

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Efe posted:

You know what usually bothers me? In pretty much every EO game once you reach that stratum that no other explorer has reached, pretty much all the townspeople know more about the stratum than you do.

If I'm not mistaken the labyrinths are usually talked about in ancient legends which indicates they were at one point explored further than they seem to be at the start of the game.
Like there was a treaty between the Forest Folk and the humans of Etria and there are records of the Grail of Kings and the birdfolk in High Lagaard.

However some games state that the labyrinths only opened recently - so at some point they must have been closed for whatever reason.
At this point the explorers of old most likely took their maps and refused to share them so that specific knowledge got lost in time making the mazes effectively "unexplored" again.
But tales about how the Stratum looks and horror stories about the beasts living up (or down) there survived as did records about the legendary materials in the books of merchants from that time.

At least that's my head cannon explanation.
While they sometimes get a bit too specific I feel for the most part they stay reasonably vage at least for the first floor of a new stratum.
And for the floors afterwards you opened the floodgates by defeating the boss. There are now several group of explorers cataloging everything there is about this new environment.
As we see whenever an NPC joins our group normal adventurers have pretty broad and badly optimized builds so they probably have trouble with FOEs and bosses but can take out random encounters just fine (for the most part).
So they are able to cover a huge amount of ground and probably get ahead of us if they directly stumble upon the stairs to the next floor just by virtue of having multiple experienced groups hungry for new areas to explore.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Taking into account what I know about resistances in EO does Flame Sign mean your party takes less damage from fire after it's used?

Also congratulations on your new, snazzy hat.

werbear fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Mar 27, 2017

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Someone at Altus heard there were people that do not yet hate squirrels.
They decided to change that.

gently caress squirrels...

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Dosen SMASH!
I think with his new-found bloodlust it is better for him to sit this one out.
Nothing worse than a White Mage that has gone mad with power.

Sasha, Kaelin, Jana, Magda

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


"You made a major, potentially mindblowing discovery?
Well, that is all nice and good - but you made it to the 5th Stratum.
Five... That's a bigger number than four. Really, though - five... Wow."

Where is Cass when you need someone to monologue about your exploration being actually interesting?

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

the impression I got when I played was that you're all medieval peasants being flabbergasted by something beyond your understanding.

That... is entirely fair.
A flying ship is easier to explain (especially when there were already legends about it) as are flying islands slightly above that.
So the most your characters would get out of the 5th Stratum is "a forest that always has a night sky even if it is bright daylight".
Which while strange is not too outstanding when compared to halls haunted by the undead or even a beautiful crystal cave in a tree.

Somewhat a revival of the spirit of the 5th Stratum of the original EO - a stratum that is pretty mindblowing for the player (even if you never heard of Shinjuku before you would recognize what the stratum is) but almost par for the course for the characters.
All Strata are strange - even the obligatory stacked forest in the beginning. So for them and the rest of the town it's not all that special.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


So now people are getting interested in us being above the sky.
Maybe it just took some time for it to sink in.

Or maybe our group is just really bad at explaining stuff and it took other adventurers following in out footsteps (at least that's what I always imagine what happens once we open the way by defeating the boss) to properly explain to the town people what is going on in the 5th Stratum.
It would not be the first time a EO party is not good at explaining something - we kind of forgot to mention the... other... properties of the Grail of Kings to Gradriel back in EOII.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Gunpowder Sasha, Death-Warding Raven, Heaven's Love Mio, Six Ways Kaelin

After that rooftop scene I see barely any chance of you not taking along both Raven and Mio - the only way that could happen is if Mio's votes get evenly split between her specialisations so both of them fall behind characters that have a clearly preferred second name.
I hope this doesn't happen because it was a really cute scene that makes a great prelude for the final battle.

Oh and normal music.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Cecil, Jana, Kaelin, Magda

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


I have a feeling that I am going to be pretty disappointed with Genetta's official localisation.
She is always a joy to read but this time her writing was especially amazing.
And her synergy with Nameless is great - almost like a honorary 18th guild member.

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Name: Coille
Class: Landsknecht
Portrait: your recolor example

Being the youngest of ten daughters Coille has no brother - but not for a lack of trying on her parent's part.
Feeling the end of his strength approaching her father finally decided to give his secret techniques to his youngest child (he is still alive and well, just really tired of taking care of newborn children). So in accordance with her father's wishes Coille is now striving to be the world's greatest lumberjack!
Her only problem is that Landsknechts can not learn Chop whenever she finds a tree sufficiently remote, tall and old to be the founding of her legacy she gets attacked by a horde of monsters. In defending her life she has gained some renown as a warrior but she still had no opportunity to fell a single tree.
Hearing of a labyrinth consisting entirely of trees she set out towards Etria - surely it must be a lumberjack's dream come true!?

Coille is dutyful, optimistic and really, really tired of monsters lurking around her trees.



Name: Boll
Class: Protector
Portrait: 3 with darker skin and hair

After a life as a Gladiator Boll learned one thing and one thing alone: How to not die.
This is the reason he was released from the pit: He would win every fight simply by outlasting his opponent which fight promoters found hard to stir up any excitement for.
In his new life as a vagabound he decided to only fight for cute things.
Because he grew up in a dusty, murky dungeon surrounded by sweaty men fighting wild animals and each other for the spectator's amusement his definiton of cuteness includes: dogs of any size as long as they wear a collar, cacti, and people smaller than him (basically everyone) fighting monsters.

Boll is a gentle giant and tends to find cute things everywhere he goes (even if no one else agrees on their cuteness).

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

Oh yeah, now that we're in space I can talk about this: according to the artbook the original names of the races were Earthlings, Lunarians, and Martians.

Lunarians are still there and Earthlings are probably Earthrun (or Earthlain).
So were bunnies or hobbits Martians? Or the scrapped oni race?

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Clarste posted:

It was the bunnies, although I don't think they were bunnies at the time. They were also labeled as orcs iirc (the nickname of the "hobbits" was redacted in the artbook; it might literally have said hobbit). The general idea of the martial culture with superior physical abilities is unchanged though.

Thanks, so it was what I saw as an oni race - big with horns? There were a few of their pictures in the art book.
I also saw five races side by side so both bunnies and onis might have existed at the same time.
Five races with ten classes seems a better fit than four but something happened and they got removed.

Maybe that's why Edgar always wears his armor - he was planned to be of a race that no longer exists.
We would have had one town NPC of every race but now he is a mystery.
(Iirc there were some indications towards Earth...lain but I still believe that's a ruse and he is actually three Brownies stacked on top of each other.)

werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Harrow posted:

Oliphant: Raven (Death-bringing), Gram (Falcon), Mio (Wrath), Kaelin (Six Ways)

Dragon Zombie: Alexis, Kaelin (Elements), Cecil (Combo), Mio (Love)

I agree with all of that.

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werbear
Jan 14, 2017


Those post-game bosses that harrass you early game are always wierd to me.
Their stats make them look like something you should take on rather early in the post-game but the quests that want you to kill them come rather late which results in pretty easy fights.
Maybe it's meant as carthasis? Although that would be a 20 to 40 hour grudge you are expected to be holding against something not too difficult to maneuver around in the first place.

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