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Such Fun
May 6, 2013
 

Splicer posted:

It has given me some insight into the people not feeling the rest of the comic since a soon as we hit a literary reference I didn't know it started reading like gibberish monkey cheese.

Meh. I think a worthwhile reference has to have some relevance to the context, and has to be reasonably accessible to the intended audience. Otherwise we get Georgian Ready Player One, or Gothic Fiction Apocrypha Pub Quiz.
Now I gladly admit that I have not put in the work to expect to be able to get a lot of references to literary works from this period. But I think it’s not at all reasonable to expect otherwise from the audience of a copy-paste webcomic.

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3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


wät

Such Fun
May 6, 2013
 


Abbeycourt Mannor is Camp, capital C: the characters are larger than life stereotypes who never experience any development. They start at 110%, and that’s how they stay throughout the story. It’s why the copy-paste art works so well. Their stereotypes are broadly recognized; it’s that girl who backstabs her sisters, it’s that father figure who sees his daughters as a burden, it’s that redhead who thinks she decide for herself, it’s that puppeteer.
But to then go and base plot points and important jokes on rather specific literary knowledge that falls way outside of the broadly recognize stereotypes: meh.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Such Fun posted:

Abbeycourt Mannor is Camp, capital C: the characters are larger than life stereotypes who never experience any development. They start at 110%, and that’s how they stay throughout the story. It’s why the copy-paste art works so well. Their stereotypes are broadly recognized; it’s that girl who backstabs her sisters, it’s that father figure who sees his daughters as a burden, it’s that redhead who thinks she decide for herself, it’s that puppeteer.
But to then go and base plot points and important jokes on rather specific literary knowledge that falls way outside of the broadly recognize stereotypes: meh.

Yeah and the stereotypes are from 1800s literature, which, incidentally, is what The Count of Monte Cristo is.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



It's a pastiche of jane austin from the word go, some literary knowledge is inherent to the concept.

Jose Valasquez
Apr 8, 2005

Bzzt Bzzt!

Reading is for nerds, it's just a funny comic

Who What Now
Sep 10, 2006

In the cheery brightness of the 41st millennium there is only CHRISTMAS SPIRIT!


Count of Monte Piss-to

londonarbuckle
Feb 23, 2017


Post-Family Guy media criticism has thoroughly broken people's brains into thinking any joke or reference they don't get is "bad writing." Or, uh, "monkeycheese"

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

I canne has cîsebœuf?


Jose Valasquez posted:

Reading is for nerds, it's just a funny comic

I like the bright colors

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


londonarbuckle posted:

Post-Family Guy media criticism has thoroughly broken people's brains into thinking any joke or reference they don't get is "bad writing." Or, uh, "monkeycheese"

I blame Something Awful, frankly.

They banned the only person in The Book Barn who reads books for talking about books lmao.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



londonarbuckle posted:

Post-Family Guy media criticism has thoroughly broken people's brains into thinking any joke or reference they don't get is "bad writing." Or, uh, "monkeycheese"

There's also the thing where people have been so exposed to riffs on an idea that they've picked up the tropes through cultural osmosis while being wholly ignorant of the original work. Goonness knows it's happened to me countless times.

Captain Hygiene
Sep 17, 2007

I canne has cîsebœuf?



I dunno whether or not that's a typo, but it's in my vocabulary now.

londonarbuckle
Feb 23, 2017


I mean I admittedly don't really know poo poo about Austen or Count of Monte Cristo but Abbeycourt Manor is perfectly coherent to me. I appreciated the poster summarizing Monte Cristo's premise but I didn't feel particularly lost without it either. It's nice to learn things though!

Zil
Jun 4, 2011

Satanically Summoned Citrus




Have they ever done books of their comics? Would buy Abbeycourt Manor.

Ghost Leviathan
Mar 2, 2017
Probation
Can't post for 4 hours!


Twitch posted:

As someone who's tried to get through the Count of Monte Cristo a couple times (it's good but very long) I'm psyched as hell

I've read it a couple times, being freakishly at home with long books. Is funny reading it considering at the time it would have been published per chapter in newspapers, and has a nearly episodic structure as a result, it's easy to picture people getting hype as hell over it back in the day.

It did take me a bit to understand the whole setup, since Monte Cristo does rely on historical context that would have been very vividly in living memory at the time, but not so much to English language readers 150 years later. The edition I have has some very extensive footnotes, at least. The whole point being basically Dantes is caught up in historical events that his co-worker and his fiance's jealous cousin use as an excuse to get him locked up by a paranoid state, with a government prosecutor making sure Dantes goes away for life just because he might get blackmailed over it.

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

It's a pastiche of jane austin from the word go, some literary knowledge is inherent to the concept.

With a good heaping of Dickens, whose naming conventions and characterisation is frankly really not that far off. Structure's more of a Wilde esque farce, though.

Although I'm looking forward to the particularly Dickensenian poor bloke probably being entertainingly terrible at elaborate revenge.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



Man, you want "assumes you're knowledgeable in then-recent french history", try reading Les Miserables. The footnotes would be twice as long as the book. I didn't make it through that one though. If Monte Cristo is the literary equivalent of candy, it's whatever the opposite is.

Stroop There It Is
Mar 11, 2012


please dont post pics of me :\

please dont post pics of me :\





Fantastic Foreskin posted:

Man, you want "assumes you're knowledgeable in then-recent french history", try reading Les Miserables. The footnotes would be twice as long as the book. I didn't make it through that one though. If Monte Cristo is the literary equivalent of candy, it's whatever the opposite is.
There is a reason they call it "The Brick" and it's not for lack of extremely detailed descriptions of specific past Napoleonic battlefields that are only tangentially related to anything!

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Fantastic Foreskin posted:

Man, you want "assumes you're knowledgeable in then-recent french history", try reading Les Miserables. The footnotes would be twice as long as the book. I didn't make it through that one though. If Monte Cristo is the literary equivalent of candy, it's whatever the opposite is.

I finished Balzac's Le Cousin Pons the other night and started reading La Cousine Bette. The former came with myriad end notes while the latter has, so far at page 120, had one footnote by the translator, and reads much better. If I need to know who d'Löökokkimoolöökokkiimoo-Ööparaplyykikkeriikokkeroo is, I'll look them up in the encyclopedia.

e: The edition of Monte Cristo I've read had no notes:

3D Megadoodoo has a new favorite as of 19:07 on Apr 6, 2021

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007






https://twitter.com/ShadowPowerup/status/1379505046451322890

Len
Jan 21, 2008

Pouches, bandages, shoulderpad, cyber-eye...

Bitchin'!



Zil posted:

Have they ever done books of their comics? Would buy Abbeycourt Manor.

Help me be the change we want to see in the world

https://twitter.com/EvilBillMurray/status/1377781798483165187?s=19

Johnny Aztec
Jan 29, 2005


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I've read it a couple times, being freakishly at home with long books. Is funny reading it considering at the time it would have been published per chapter in newspapers, and has a nearly episodic structure as a result, it's easy to picture people getting hype as hell over it back in the day.

It did take me a bit to understand the whole setup, since Monte Cristo does rely on historical context that would have been very vividly in living memory at the time, but not so much to English language readers 150 years later. The edition I have has some very extensive footnotes, at least. The whole point being basically Dantes is caught up in historical events that his co-worker and his fiance's jealous cousin use as an excuse to get him locked up by a paranoid state, with a government prosecutor making sure Dantes goes away for life just because he might get blackmailed over it.


With a good heaping of Dickens, whose naming conventions and characterisation is frankly really not that far off. Structure's more of a Wilde esque farce, though.

Although I'm looking forward to the particularly Dickensenian poor bloke probably being entertainingly terrible at elaborate revenge.

Yeah, alot of people don't know that alot of "Classics" were put out as serials. The Count of Monte Crisco is, intentionally, padded out, since the author was getting paid by the word or chapter or whatever.

And you think people are weird fans nowdays? You had people writing their own fan fiction, and accosting the authors in the streets. Take the most rabid FanBoy from any convention, put them in a suit and top hat, and put them in 1800s London, and you wouldn't know the difference.

Fantastic Foreskin
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



3D Megadoodoo posted:

I finished Balzac's Le Cousin Pons the other night and started reading La Cousine Bette. The former came with myriad end notes while the latter has, so far at page 120, had one footnote by the translator, and reads much better. If I need to know who d'Löökokkimoolöökokkiimoo-Ööparaplyykikkeriikokkeroo is, I'll look them up in the encyclopedia.

e: The edition of Monte Cristo I've read had no notes:



I grew up on Duck comics and I don't think that one made it to the states, I am very jealous.

Monte Cristo I don't feel needs them, a passing knowledge of who Napoleon was and how paranoid governments work is enough. Les Miserables had me googling things every other chaper or so since an intimate knowledge of French history and society are both assumed and integral to the plot.

The blow-by-blow of Waterloo was excessive, to say the lease.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Fantastic Foreskin posted:

I grew up on Duck comics and I don't think that one made it to the states, I am very jealous.

I think all the stories in that series ("Klassikot" i.e. "Classics") were Italian.

3D Megadoodoo has a new favorite as of 19:49 on Apr 6, 2021

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011






Muldoon

Yeah, Europe has its whole own Disney canon that I think rarely makes it across the Atlantic. I've never read a lot of Marvel or DC Comics but I grew up on the Duck Avenger, which was an Italian series starring Donald Duck as the titular Avenger:



I haven't read their version of The Count of Monte Cristo, but Donald Duck comics was my first encounter with Les Miserables.

Kennel
May 1, 2008

BAWWW-UNH!


Classic adaptations were the best part of Italian Disney comics.

World War Mammories
Aug 25, 2006





Zulily Zoetrope posted:

Yeah, Europe has its whole own Disney canon that I think rarely makes it across the Atlantic. I've never read a lot of Marvel or DC Comics but I grew up on the Duck Avenger, which was an Italian series starring Donald Duck as the titular Avenger:



I haven't read their version of The Count of Monte Cristo, but Donald Duck comics was my first encounter with Les Miserables.

now, I'm willing to accept that the flying guy's disc thing has a beak and teeth, but why does it have two mouths

Zulily Zoetrope
Jun 1, 2011






Muldoon

That's one mouth snarling, obviously. The teeth go all the way across the beak.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006




Soiled Meat

It's not tough to understand, guy gets imprisoned, guy wants revenge, feeds everyone unhealthy sandwiches.

Elviscat
Jan 1, 2008

MESS WITH THE OWL GET DISEMBOWEL





Fantastic Foreskin posted:

I grew up on Duck comics and I don't think that one made it to the states, I am very jealous.

Monte Cristo I don't feel needs them, a passing knowledge of who Napoleon was and how paranoid governments work is enough. Les Miserables had me googling things every other chaper or so since an intimate knowledge of French history and society are both assumed and integral to the plot.

The blow-by-blow of Waterloo was excessive, to say the lease.

I read it specifically for the 100 page story derails about the history of Paris' Sewer and 19th century French monasteries.

Les Miserables might be best read in the abridged form now that I think about it.

Splicer
Oct 16, 2006

from hell's heart I stab at thee

Fantastic Foreskin posted:

It's a pastiche of jane austin from the word go, some literary knowledge is inherent to the concept.
Yup, I've been loving the Jane Austen stuff because I Get It, but Napoleon showing up and thingy meeting an old guy in jail were funny but I was clearly missing something, and if there's people who have been feeling like that about all the Jane Austin bits I can see why they weren't as enthused as the rest of us.

e: Which is not a "problem" with the comic, familiarity of the source material is kind of required to get everything out of a pastiche

Splicer has a new favorite as of 20:41 on Apr 6, 2021

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Is there a bad American cartoon animation television series that's been wildly popular in the past 10 years that HASN'T done a Monte Cristo episode or two?

Twitch
Apr 15, 2003

The Jellicle Moon is shining bright


Ghost Leviathan posted:

I've read it a couple times, being freakishly at home with long books. Is funny reading it considering at the time it would have been published per chapter in newspapers, and has a nearly episodic structure as a result, it's easy to picture people getting hype as hell over it back in the day.

Apologies for continuing a derail, but is there an edition of the Count of Monte Cristo you'd recommend? I've been making more time to read and could go for giving it another go after I finish the book I'm currently reading. I just bought whatever Amazon ebook version came up first and looked unabridged.

3D Megadoodoo
Nov 25, 2010

- Ska du ha maito i kaffet?


Twitch posted:

I just bought whatever Amazon ebook version came up first and looked unabridged.

You could've just downloaded it for free. It's in the public domain. http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/search/?query=monte+cristo&submit_search=Go%21

e: Whoever sold it to you as an ebook probably did.

Kit Walker
Jul 10, 2010
"The Man Who Cannot Deadlift"



Splicer posted:

Yup, I've been loving the Jane Austen stuff because I Get It, but Napoleon showing up and thingy meeting an old guy in jail were funny but I was clearly missing something, and if there's people who have been feeling like that about all the Jane Austin bits I can see why they weren't as enthused as the rest of us.

e: Which is not a "problem" with the comic, familiarity of the source material is kind of required to get everything out of a pastiche

I never read Jane Austen but the premise is pretty easy to pick up on. I guess the only thing you’d really need to appreciate Abbeycourt is a basic understanding of high society way back when, which lots of people pick up through cultural osmosis anyway

Sentient Data
Aug 31, 2011

My molecule scrambler ray will disintegrate your armor with one blow!


I found Monte Cristo to be way too overrated, it's a fun concept but kind of too one-note. I think Three Musketeers is the far better book, and the audiobook version narrated by John Lee is amazingly produced

Leon Sumbitches
Mar 27, 2010

Dr. Leon Adoso Sumbitches (prounounced soom-'beh-cheh) (born January 21, 1935) is heir to the legendary Adoso family oil fortune.







Buglord

Aren't there a ton of loose ends? The vampire, the juggler, and so on?

muscles like this!
Jan 17, 2005



For a bare bones and abridged version of the story the 2002 movie version with Jim Caviezel as Edmond is pretty good. It simplifies the revenge plot and has some weird additions (like making Albert Edmond's son) but all in all it isn't a bad movie. Also the movie has a young Henry Cavill as Albert.

Skwirl
May 13, 2007

The 'blood babe with the silicone chest, 200-dollar haircut, and a closet full of the latest fashions.




Leon Sumbitches posted:

Aren't there a ton of loose ends? The vampire, the juggler, and so on?

That's why we're getting a sequel.

Digamma-F-Wau
Mar 22, 2016

...puh-
puhroud..??




Wasn't there a Count of Monte Cristo anime that took place in outer space and had a weird unmoving texture effect?

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feedmyleg
Dec 25, 2004

EVERY FAIRY TALE NEEDS ITS HERO.



I really dig the 2002 version even if it has some rough edges (like Guzman making aome bizarre acting choices).

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