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Main Paineframe posted:"Unconditional surrender" was actually a huge boon to Hitler's regime, since it destroyed any realistic hope that a successor government might be able to end the war early if Hitler and his trusted supporters all just so happened to suffer mysterious fatal accidents at the same time. By putting Germany in a no-win situation and tying the fate and fortunes of the country to the fate of the Nazi government, we gave the Nazis a massive propaganda boost and made internal rebellion a very unattractive deal. As far as I can tell, only two major WWII figures liked the "unconditional surrender" demand - Roosevelt, who proposed it, and Goebbels, who made it a centerpiece of pro-Nazi propaganda. This is basically a neo-nazi argument just so you know. That it was actually the allies who were to blame for all the death and destruction rought by Nazi Germany because they weren't nice to Nazi Germany
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Oct 29, 2016 21:28
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A Buttery Pastry posted:1. Invent cruise missiles and surveillance satellites instead of nuclear weapons. Hey, it worked for Bill Clinton.
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Oct 29, 2016 21:29
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Fojar38 posted:This is basically a neo-nazi argument just so you know. That it was actually the allies who were to blame for all the death and destruction rought by Nazi Germany because they weren't nice to Nazi Germany It was the Morgenthau plan that Goebbels used as propaganda, not unconditional surrender. The Morgenthau plan was the basis for post-war policy for the first couple of years of the occupation of Germany and it was a complete mess.
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Oct 29, 2016 21:34
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Fojar38 posted:This is basically a neo-nazi argument just so you know. That it was actually the allies who were to blame for all the death and destruction rought by Nazi Germany because they weren't nice to Nazi Germany If not for the word "unconditional", Goeabbels would have just thrown his arms in the air and proclaim on live radio "Well, I'll be damned, I can't find anything unreasonable in the Yanks' demands. Not even a tiny bit. Oh shucks, we'll be shutting down the government beginning tomorrow, well played."
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Oct 29, 2016 21:33
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steinrokkan posted:Ah, so you'd rely on the ol' clean Wehrmacht myth and just let the Nazis (+ Nazis in all but name) sort things out for themselves. Well, that's basically exactly what we actually ended up doing. If my hypothetical situation needs to include a de-Nazification that actually works and a cleaning-out of the Wehrmacht, then you're holding me to a much higher standard than both Truman and Stalin. steinrokkan posted:If not for the word "unconditional", Goeabbels would have just thrown his arms in the air and proclaim on live radio "Well, I'll be damned, I can't find anything unreasonable in the Yanks' demands. Not even a tiny bit. Oh shucks, we'll be shutting down the government beginning tomorrow, well played." "Unconditional" was used to argue that the Allies plotted nothing less than the complete destruction of Germany, and therefore even people who disagreed with the Nazi regime needed to fight because the Allies would never accept peaceful coexistence with any German government, even an anti-Nazi one. It turned out to be an incredible charm for protecting the Nazi government from the unrest and political opportunism that beset many of the minor Axis nations as soon as it was clear the Allies had the advantage.
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Oct 29, 2016 22:20
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Fojar38 posted:This is basically a neo-nazi argument just so you know. That it was actually the allies who were to blame for all the death and destruction rought by Nazi Germany because they weren't nice to Nazi Germany You have to remember that most people who argue that "there was a better way" are essentially writing fix-it-fanfic about how WW2 SHOULD have been fought, complete with totally ignoring the realities of the people and the events they are trying to alter. It's a silly rear end debate with these people because they literally expect you to take them seriously when one of their key points of Happier, Less Awful World War Two is "And the Nazis Would Magically Be Less Awful In MY World, if only we just tried reeeeeeeeeeeeally hard to follow the steps I've laid out seven decades after the fact."
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Oct 29, 2016 22:26
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The government in Rwanda has been steadily granting amnesty to the hundreds of thousands of killers in the 1994 genocide, and integrating them into their former communities. I assume in your mind this means that the genocidaires effectively won, if the Adenauer Germany was basically just Nazi Germany with a new coat of paint. Also there's nothing that would have prevented the Nazi propaganda machine from claiming the imminent destruction of all things German under any circumstances, totalitarian propaganda manufactures reality for the common man, and there's no way the higher ups who could have toppled the regime actually believed any of the government official line. steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Oct 29, 2016 |
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Oct 29, 2016 22:34
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wasn't this thread for newspaper clippings
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Oct 30, 2016 05:37
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Cocksmith posted:wasn't this thread for newspaper clippings yes       
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Oct 30, 2016 18:12
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Poor Major Dick Bong.
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Oct 30, 2016 18:38
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