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Pants Donkey posted:1. I used grenade on a unit with aegis to remove the aegis, sacking my Venomspine Hydra to wipe his board. The unit survived, and I have no idea why since aegis since it blocks one spell or effect. Like it literally cost me the game so I'm a bit peeved by it. This sounds like a bug, and would probably be corrected if you reported it. quote:2. I cast treachery and the following turn the AI played two units (and no, it was not a topdeck echo and no other cards were played). Why didn't I get to discard a unit from its hand? quote:3. I used Dark Return on a Ravenous Thornbeast, and its summon effect did not go off. In fact I think it just went straight to the board without me casting it or spending power. How SHOULD this work? quote:4. Now I think I have a grasp on how stun works: it prevents the next two attacks or blocks, regardless if the opposing player attacks. So stunning a unit that can't block before attacking would effectively be a waste of stun, yes? Shovelmint fucked around with this message at 15:18 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 15:16
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Pants Donkey posted:I'm new to the game and have some questions, because some interactions seem super unintuitive. Might be because Aegis counts simultaneous effects as just one and blocks them all. e: In this case Grenade's 3 damage and Hydra's Entomb being simultaneous. Pollyzoid fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jul 23, 2017 |
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Jul 23, 2017 15:38
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Pollyzoid posted:Might be because Aegis counts simultaneous effects as just one and blocks them all. The entomb goes off before the spell most likely. The sacrifice part of grenade is part of the cost of casting the spell.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:23
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Pollyzoid posted:Might be because Aegis counts simultaneous effects as just one and blocks them all.
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Jul 23, 2017 16:53
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Cynic Jester posted:The entomb goes off before the spell most likely. The sacrifice part of grenade is part of the cost of casting the spell. This is how it would work in MTG. I didn't realise Aegis blocked mass effects as well, though.
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Jul 23, 2017 17:04
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NihilCredo posted:This is how it would work in MTG. Easiest way to find out would be to see if the grenade did damage. If it did, that's how it works. If it didn't, poo poo be wonky.
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Jul 23, 2017 18:44
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Effects happen sequentially, with effects from sac happening before the effects for which saccing is the cost. You can see this fairly trivially if you devour a dark wisp - you draw one card, then two. It was working as intended.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:34
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The unit with aegis only had two hp though, so it still should have died if aegis absorbed the entomb effect first.
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Jul 23, 2017 20:48
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Tin Tim posted:I was wondering if Purify would get around aegis since it has two effects that should happen in a sequence(imo) but I couldn't test it so far. Did anyone try it? I think I tried this the other day and both effects got eaten by the aegis.
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Jul 23, 2017 22:35
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i think in eternal it generally goes that if a card has two effects ie silence and deal three damage, it is still counts as just one by mechanics. there aren't a lot of these do test with though.
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Jul 23, 2017 23:41
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Pants Donkey posted:I'm new to the game and have some questions, because some interactions seem super unintuitive. Others are speculating on this, but I'd like to throw my anecdotal evidence that Aegis might be bugged right now. At least once this weekend I had someone with a Mistveil Drake on the field who then played Lightning Storm. The resulting storm killed some of my units, but left his Aegis untouched. I reported it as a bugged interaction, so this situation might be a repeat of that.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:33
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Drunk Theory posted:Others are speculating on this, but I'd like to throw my anecdotal evidence that Aegis might be bugged right now. At least once this weekend I had someone with a Mistveil Drake on the field who then played Lightning Storm. The resulting storm killed some of my units, but left his Aegis untouched. I reported it as a bugged interaction, so this situation might be a repeat of that. It was my understanding that Aegis doesn't protect your own units from your own spells. For example, if you cast Harsh rule, it will kill all of your units, even if they have aegis.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:44
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That's not bugged. Aegis has no interaction with spells played by the player who controls the aegis'd unit. Harsh rule would be even more op if it did.
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Jul 24, 2017 16:45
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A lot of things in this game are poorly explained to newer players. Really it's biggest weakness, I think.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:31
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You'd think that 3 hours of tutorials could effectively communicate some of these things, but nope... they are that worthless.
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Jul 24, 2017 17:37
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Let's be fair though, it's a complex game that can't really be explained to folks within a matter of 30 minutes, especially if they're new to card games like this in general. You have to find some balance of "here's the stuff you need to know" versus "there are also other less obvious interactions you'll need to discover or learn about elsewhere". The only other card game I played before this was Hearthstone and it had some pretty non-obvious interactions as well, and people constantly clamoring for "a full rulebook of interactions" to the point where you get this thing which attempts to figure it all out. I actually think Eternal's a little less obtuse about interactions/rules and generally more internally consistent. The one interaction I can think of right now that is still "kind of weird" to me is the concept of "marked damage" and setting a unit's health to below that marked damage number during the same turn causing that unit to die (the main use of it being the Lightning Storm followed by Withering Witch combo, which typically kills any non-aegis enemy units). And even then, I get how it works. Aegis not blocking your own spells is technically called out in the mouseover text/tooltip because it just says "enemey spells" and I believe there's a tip during the matchmaking search screen that mentions it explicitly. Short of adding on more to the tutorial (which sounds bad) I don't know what else people expect for things like that.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:04
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One of the biggest "gotchas" for me as a new player was Permafrost interactions. - Endurance prevents stun of any sort. Sure, that's on me, I didn't catch that reading the tooltip for endurance the first time. - Permafrost isn't a spell, so it can stun things like Snapping Brushstalker without pushing it back to hand. - Permafrost is an attachment, so things that remove attachments get rid of it. Unique to permafrost, doesn't apply to regular stuns or perma-stuns like Ice Sprite. I also blew myself out with Aegis not protecting my own units from Harsh Rule, but that's a "learn this once in bronze and never forget it" kind of interaction. The stuff about both a spell and a creature's entomb being stopped by one Aegis seems more like a bug to me, but I haven't tried that particular combo before.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:06
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I too have flopped a game to assuming a friendly harsh rule would be blocked by aegis.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:44
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Okay, right makes sense. And no, I was aware that your own aegis wouldn't save your unit from your own spells. Guess I forgot that it wouldn't break the Aegis at all if it doesn't kill the unit. Which upon reflection I knew, because I knew sandstorm doesn't pop Aegis. Nvm then.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:49
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Permafrost being an attachment unlike every other stun is indeed kind of weird, but I think the "Curse" cards were just made that way to make it endure longer than the normal stun. Every other effect that lasts like that has to be attached to something (a relic, another unit, etc.). And once you realize that it is an attachment, it makes more sense. I forget exactly what the hover-tooltip thing shows when it's on a unit, but if it's an attachment that says something like "this unit is stunned" then all the interactions make sense. I wish they named all of the "Curse" cards like "Cursed Attachment" or something to make this more obvious because Touch of the Umbren and Mark of Shame are the same thing. And to make matters worse, two of the three have the "(for as long as it is cursed)" clarification text but one does not.
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Jul 24, 2017 18:57
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Nighthand posted:
Wait... so I can get rid of permafrost with a card like Ruin???
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Jul 24, 2017 19:07
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extravadanza posted:Wait... so I can get rid of permafrost with a card like Ruin??? Yeah, or Decay, or Furnace Mage or any of those "remove an enemy attachment" things.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:22
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extravadanza posted:Wait... so I can get rid of permafrost with a card like Ruin??? I've gone on and on before about how negative attachment cards are incredibly confusing because of how response windows work, and how unintuitive it is for curse to be a special word for attachment. Fortunately primal is bad enough that you don't have to worry too much about it.
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Jul 24, 2017 19:22
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You can also silence attachments by silencing the creature they're attached to. So if you need to attack with your permafrosted unit, use a silence effect on it.
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Jul 24, 2017 21:59
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the meta's stabilised, and it's unchanged Rakano Plate and Big Combrei, and sometimes big combrei but with a couple of overpowered argentport cards, yaaay
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Jul 25, 2017 02:06
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So ... does Aegis on a dying unit block Statuary Maiden's transform effect? I killed an Icaria with a Maiden on board and she didn't transform...
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Jul 25, 2017 02:13
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No Safe Word posted:So ... does Aegis on a dying unit block Statuary Maiden's transform effect? I killed an Icaria with a Maiden on board and she didn't transform... Yes, and also Cerso's pig transform.
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Jul 25, 2017 02:46
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Siraf just shouldn't exist. Incredibly stupid card - the highest value card in the game and also an overstatted anti-aggro 3-drop. Good luck balancing around that. Combrei's forever tier 1 status isn't a question of time and justice being too good together, it's just that one deranged card. No Wave fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 03:05
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Does DWD ever nerf cards?
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Jul 25, 2017 03:30
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Azran posted:Does DWD ever nerf cards? off the top of my head, the 2 cost 2/1 with aegis and warcry in justice used to be a 2/2. Oh yeah and champion of chaos used to buff health. Probably some others im forgetting
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Jul 25, 2017 03:34
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they've removed and revamped cards too. like the 0/2 1 mana oni who got +2 attack for each weapon on it, or feln bloodcaster turning into a different card. rapid poo poo was the last nerf to my knowledge though.
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Jul 25, 2017 03:51
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Azran posted:Does DWD ever nerf cards?
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Jul 25, 2017 03:56
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Oh, nice. I started playing again a week before Omens of the Past, and I had only played like 20 matches before that. Glad to hear that they nerf stuff. Personally, even Darude doesn't feel as annoying as pre-nerf Song Hai in Duelyst.
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Jul 25, 2017 04:09
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And I just lost a game because the opponent was doing more damage than illustrated. Clockroach combo, he had a 2/2, 3/3, 4/4, and 5/5, all of them with aegis, unblockable, endurance, and their base echo. Except that's a total of 14 damage and I had 16 life, but he killed me with them. They just... hit me for more damage than they had.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:13
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You sure there wasn't any double damage hiding out there? It's pretty unusual to have four roaches with exactly the same set of abilities, so I'd suspect that at least some of them had more than just those three.
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Jul 25, 2017 05:18
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I didn't see double damage, and they weren't doing double, just value +1. Nothing on board I could see would have added that and they didn't cast anything to do it. It just seemed like a display glitch more than anything.
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Jul 25, 2017 07:08
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rumble in the bunghole posted:the meta's stabilised, and it's unchanged Rakano Plate and Big Combrei, and sometimes big combrei but with a couple of overpowered argentport cards, yaaay One tournament worth of results and you say that the meta is 'stabilised'? I think the conclusion to draw here is that people have yet to find the right Omens of the Past decks. Of course meta mainstays will roll over un-optimized builds.
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Jul 25, 2017 08:05
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I can't see much really changing, a lot of the new factions are really momentum-based so 'play big dudes on curve' is going to stop them in their tracks, and there's not much that stops rakano fast enough. Argentport and Xenan might be ok since shadow removal is great against combrei and have blockers/healing against aggro but their numbers are just smaller, which is a massive factor.
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Jul 25, 2017 09:24
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A buddy of mine has been playing a full-bore Warp deck and I watched a few games and it's surprisingly not bad. When all your topdecks are Warp, it works out pretty well because the Forge makes them cost 2 less and Waystone Infuser allows you to peel off a power card if one pops up. Likewise, Brilliant Discovery might peel off another power card or two if they're in the way. It seems to lack a good stalemate breaker against things like Combrei, though. I semi-jokingly suggested a 1-of Bad News to potentially deal with it but I doubt that's the answer. The basic skeleton was 4 Blinkwolf 4 Hipshot 2-4 Pouncing Drake 4 Avirax Familiar 2-4 Camp Physician 4 Waystone Infuser 2-4 Plated Goliath 1-2 Rhinarc Huntpack 4 Journeyman Armorer 2-4 Brilliant Discovery 2-4 Shatterglass Mage 4 Workshop Forge 3-4 Diogo Malaga 3-4 Heart of the Vault The 4-ofs are the only for sure 4-ofs, most of the rest you can flex a bit. The Huntpack is cute but not necessary. If you have 4 each of Diogo and Heart, probably put them all in. It's far from finished, but it's fun when it goes off and once I get some more shiftstone I'll probably experiment with it because Diogo/Heart just seem like good quality cards even if the deck isn't a ladder smasher. e: There was also 1 Passage of Eons though this was just a tech choice, but it seemed pretty decent. No Safe Word fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 25, 2017 |
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Jul 25, 2017 15:42
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Just picked this up when the iOS version came out a few days ago and it's pretty cool at first glance. I like the Forge mode a lot as a new player and I'm having fun figuring out some of the card interactions. My mind was blown when I gave my Echo dinosaur dude flying, then he died, then I used a card to put him on top of my deck & drew two more copies, both with flying. I threw together some super budget Rakano warcry deck since it lined up with the rares I've opened (the red/green Champion one-drop and the green flier that silences on summon) but I'm not really sure where to go from here putting a constructed deck together. Everything seems pretty out of reach at the moment but the card packs keep rolling in so I'll see what I end up with.
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