Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I actually save early game potions of lig for those exact situations.

# ¿ Nov 3, 2016 06:31

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 07:12

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I 15 runed a TrMo a couple weeks ago and haven't really played crawl since, but I've been reading the thread regardless. My question is, what role does the Monk class occupy? I've seen you guys post your Win screens and it seems inevitably that the monks winning have:
- A weapon, or at least weapon skills
- Usually chain or heavier armour

When I first started way back when (first version where Tiles were introduced, don't remember what that was) the impression I got was a monk was supposed to be a light armour/no weapon kind of spell-using badass, but it seems they're never played that way. Even the wiki quote kind of implies this:

quote:

The Monk is a member of an ascetic order dedicated to the perfection of one's body and soul through the discipline of the martial arts. Monks start with very little equipment, but can survive without the weighty weapons and spellbooks needed by characters of other backgrounds. When they choose a god for the first time, their spiritual training gives them a piety boost.

Maybe it's just me, but the only monks I've ascended are MiMo w/ Lajatang back when that was a recipe for success, FoMo/TrMo/DsMO (with the right mutations) as blender murder machines, and GrMo just because Gr* is a melee win button. Are monks just fighters with a different aptitude set and a piety bonus? Or do you guys play them differently?

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 01:21

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Darox posted:

The shop thing makes sense from a flavor perspective too because it's not actually building a shop, it's just opening a portal to the shop dimension.

I like to imagine it's become a serious problem on the surface and any time you walk through a door there's a 50/50 chance you end up in Frieda's Fantastical Fripperies. The ones you find in the dungeon just couldn't afford any good real estate.

Yeah I havent played Gozag the gozerian very much but I like the conceit of creating a shop within the existing framework.

# ¿ Dec 8, 2016 22:46

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Dang Voodoo that is a shameful record. I am disappoint

# ¿ Dec 18, 2016 01:31

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Didn't Crawl used to have seasonal xmas tiles? Or was that only a setting on web tiles

# ¿ Dec 25, 2016 07:00

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Mr. Lobe posted:

On a separate note, I got a bit frustrated with Crawl over vacation and I tried playing Angband, which I beat once like a decade ago.

I ran into a monster that rusted equipment or something, and was just like "gently caress this bullshit" and quit playing.

I am very glad Crawl moved away from the "item destruction" and disenchantment/rusting mechanics of its roguelike forebears, that stuff is pure non-fun bullshit.

Hah you're lucky you quit before you ran into some Z's that summon more Z's that can summon Z's... Well you get the picture. Summoning monsters are completely broken in that game.

# ¿ Jan 4, 2017 01:30

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Goodpancakes posted:

Working on a new race for crawl called Eigh Hlf. They have pretty great stats and aps for hybrids. Please play and comment!

Idea: unique racial spell, singularity

# ¿ Jan 9, 2017 08:02

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I'm kind of torn because I liked the goofy random messages but simultaneously resented the extra inventory spot.

FR: Have tons of wacky food but make it so they only take one inventory slot

# ¿ Jan 21, 2017 02:57

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Kaedric posted:

Well I made it nicely far with the above advice, at least for me Got my first rune and almost got my second but Trog got pissed at me and dropped mans on me twice in a row. Second set killed me as I was resting up from the first. In retrospect I should have just tele'd the hell out instead of trying to fight but I got cocky because I had like 55 AC and was crushing everything. That's how you learn I think.

In other news, gargoyles just feel OP as hell compared to other races I have played. I feel like I'm immune to everything, and autofly owns hard.

I was going to write earlier since the way you describe your playing is exactly how I learned how to play the game. Some combos:
- MiFi: Super aptitudes, super tough, can still wear hats. Go swords if one-handed, Axes if two
- FoFi: Goodish aptitudes, can use two handers (suggest axes) with shields, can't teleport/haste. Most important for these guys is learn how to murderhole. Might be my favourite.
- GaFi: OP as hell, poison immunity makes Lair/Spider/Snake a lot easier. Intrinsic flight makes Swamp/Shoals a lot easier. Suggest flails for eventual Eveningstar for shield users or Great Mace for not.
- VSFi: Not immediately as tough as the above, but if you're willing to run away a lot in the beginning their high bite damage and regeneration means you'll either kill quick, or recover quick from things you can't originally kill. Anti-magic bite pays dividends even into extended against Pan lords and Hell lords.

I've 15 runed all of the the above across several versions, several times without learning a single spell. Okawaru is the god of choice for these kinds of guys for me above Trog; I'm just addicted to the panic button of Heroism/Finesse at low invocation skill, plus the more diverse equipment gifting.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 06:29

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Kaedric posted:

I don't think I've ever tried okawaru. I'll give it a whirl. I want to like formicid but not being able to tele terrifies me.

What I found, especially early on is that I'd forget to use tele in the heat of battle or fall into the "can't use consumables what if???" trap so going formicid simplified that for me.

# ¿ Jan 26, 2017 22:09

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Kaedric posted:

I'm super depressed about losing my FoFi last night. I was doing really well with it, had +10 plate armor, +5 slaying gloves, insane SH from deflecting neck + artifact shield and regen, and had great penetration arbalests from Oka. I got cocky in Elf:3 and got blown the gently caress up by magic because my resists were poo poo. I learned a little from this though

Yeah doing Elf as a melee beefster I have a list: N+++ (because drain isn't deadly but it is annoying), at least rF+, rC+ and rPois. Lastly, rM++ OR a way to deal with the Abyss. Sometimes depending on gear luck I'll do Elf before getting the first rune, ideally after Orc, Lair, and D15. That said, as FoFi you're probably going to be mindelay on a battle axe by then, which means the only guys who can take more than 1 or 2 hits are blademasters/master archers.

# ¿ Feb 1, 2017 07:28

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I think I had the most fun 15 runing my first VSFi. Was pretty scared of some of the pan lords, but they never cast any spells. Because of course I was anti-magic biting the gently caress out of them. Also the only non-casting class I've cleared a zig with (v0.17)

# ¿ Feb 7, 2017 04:03

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I read an Angband LP in the archive and was feeling nostalgic so fired it up again. Here's some thoughts that are relevant to the current obfuscation discussion I think:

First of all, unrelated: Good god has o/tab/^f/^g spoiled me. I think we have to make a rule that all roguelikes need to have that, and old ones need to have it retrofitted.

The problem with Angband I started to feel, was that there were too many numbers. Every single weapon and artifact had an average DPS (broken down by resistance and monster type), and my eventually beefy monster memory had HP, AC, %Hit, spells cast/frequency, etc. And it felt... kind of dry. I felt like I wasn't playing an exciting game of an adventurer against impossible odds anymore, I was playing a series of spreadsheet probability formulas. I ran 3 guys and won with all 3 (mostly because of leet strats learned from the LP), and I ended up using mostly the same gear on all 3, because that's what the numbers said. Part of it is a diversity problem, like how Nethack used to be "always be grayswandir" because it was always the most optimal choice, and flavour suffered as a result.

I'm actually OK with how Crawl does obfuscation currently. I have "enough" numbers I feel, without taking away all the mystique/uncertainty out of it.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2017 00:31

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Potion of Resistance also protects against mutation

EDIT-Sorry, that's a suggestion, not a statement of fact

# ¿ Feb 9, 2017 04:21

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

fool_of_sound posted:

Hey devs, do you think you could make the dancing weapon sprite a little more distinct? Once the corpses start piling up, it's hard to pick out the little red music note from the bloodstains on the other tiles containing weapons.

I always thought that was on purpose. There's even an Elf entry vault the comes pre-splattered with lots of blood, and tons of weapons laying around in it.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2017 04:31

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Kaedric posted:

Make a turtle race that's slower than nagas, has ac from it's shell, a bite attack, and can't wear anything cept a hat and cape. Sneeze attack I guess.

I'm not good at this.

Two pairs of boots

# ¿ Feb 16, 2017 00:21

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Carcer posted:

No, what you say is important because its showing that something fundamental to the game isn't/wasn't getting communicated properly. I wonder how many other players that play offline and never go anywhere near wikis or forums don't know about stuff like butchering.

I didn't "get" butchering for food chunks until .16 and had been playing since the graphic tiles were introduced

# ¿ Feb 16, 2017 23:34

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

The cloud stuff is easy to explain, the player is a solipsist

# ¿ Feb 23, 2017 21:11

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Sojenus posted:

Either this is a bug or my character enjoys punching corpses:
code:
You kill the glowing orange brain!
The Council accepts your kill.
The great orb of eyes dissolves into shadows!
The spriggan defender dissolves into shadows! x2
The spriggan berserker is no longer berserk.
The spriggan berserker dissolves into shadows!
You repeatedly attack DEAD MONSTER from above!
Perhaps something to do with interactions between the wall jump and summons?

I think I've seen this happen with cleaves on summoned monsters too

# ¿ Feb 24, 2017 09:16

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Messing around with the code for crawl is relatively easy, my biggest problem was with the tool chain setup on Windows, but maybe that's easier now. I tried to make a totally OP race that had gargoyle resist/ac, undead torment immune, minotaur apts, demonspawn mutations, and formicid arms.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2017 21:50

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Thug Lessons posted:

I like the new division of species into Simple, Intermediate and Advanced, but some of the classification is wonky, like how VS is listed as advanced but Gh is simple. VS has low HP and healing potential but just completely shits on everything, whereas ghoul is IMO one of the harder species to actually win with because of their crappy apts. The only logic I can see is ironically an advanced player logic that prioritizes early-game survival over all else, whereas those classifications should be there to help new players.

Yeah I think I posted this earlier when I first used a VS and then ascended three pretty quickly. Bite + Regen + Spirit can be a nasty mix after they're all online, and the magic drain shut down the pan lords pretty easy in extended too.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2017 00:44

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Samog posted:

and a skeleton

All the monsters that changed gender

# ¿ Mar 26, 2017 00:52

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Qualnesti elves

# ¿ Mar 27, 2017 00:59

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

apple posted:

Monsters picking up items was mostly phased out, IIRC monsters only grab and use undiscovered items which is why you'll have elf enemies in Elf:3 in full bling sometimes, but other than that you're good.

I still stash sometimes, mostly because of books and/or food, and by stash I mean "dump a stack of items on the nearest cleared floor" because stash locations at most just save you some turns if you pick a centralized location which is not worth the bother.

Is there a special case in zigs? I've wondered why they don't tool up on artifacts (that I've seen) there as opposed to elf end.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 03:00

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Just 15 runed a FoFi on my local. My blessing and curse was getting this on Lair 1 from Oka:

code:

the +3 battleaxe "Cookie Cutter" (weapon) {freeze, rC++ rN+++ Dex-2}

My first thought was "oh no! I can never not wield this, so I'm stuck at a paltry base 15 + 3 damage". My second thought was "oh yes! I'm saving so many slots by getting all those resists, I am going to get Slay+++". This was the only slay gear I found in the whole game:

code:

the +0 pair of gloves "Foky" (worn) {rPois Str-2 Slay+2}

Making things even worse, this was my Mut rollout:

code:

You have very sharp fingernails.
You possess an exceptional clarity of mind.
Your flesh is very heat resistant.
Your system is resistant to poisons.
You are resistant to electric shocks.
You can spit weak poison.

So that's Clarity, rF++, rElec, and rPois (plus rC++ and rN+++ from the axe) all without having to consume gear slots. And I had the amulet that let you wear an extra ring. And I never found anything of Slaying despite having a setup where I could have rocked probably at least 4 +Slay items.

On the plus side, a Battle Axe is still more than "good enough" to do extended, so if any formicid dudes are worried about being stuck with one it can likely work out.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2017 06:26

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

vOv posted:

I like using them in case I run into Grinder on a melee dude.

They're good for early rPois too for the lvl 1 Viper encounters.

# ¿ May 13, 2017 23:34

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Funny bitchiness part of my current game on local tiles. I have 14 runes, going for 15, but in all that (Plus 2 Zigs to lvl 20, and probably about 50 pan levels) I have not found a single piece of rCorr gear. Not even on a marginal weapon, or on a bad ring, and obviously not the amulet. I burned 5 scrolls of acquisition on jewelry. The last rune is Slime obviously. At this point the character is so overpowered (VsFi) that I probably don't need it but I bet it's going to end ugly in there.

# ¿ May 24, 2017 06:02

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Araganzar posted:

You should have at least a dozen potions of resistance by now and you probably won't need more than 3-4 of them. Phantom mirror + immolation is the classy way to take out TRJ at this point anyway.

Oh yeah, I know I got options. I just started down this road thinking "hmm, better not try Slime until I can get rCorr" and then never really stopped to question it until it was the last thing to do!

# ¿ May 24, 2017 07:07

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

the Orb of Zot posted:

He can actually spawn in Crypt rarely as well, which if that happens makes him pretty much the absolute scariest thing you can see in a 3-rune game (especially given the pack he spawns with).

Still easier to find than Murray or Tiamat!

Yeah Khufu gave me a scare once in Crypt 3, that relatively wide open cemetary layout with the dead plants. He got unbottled and then super mummies everywhere, I had to leave and come back several times. Only time I saw him use his wall building spell.

I've only seen Murray in Sprint, though I find Tiamat fairly common.

# ¿ May 28, 2017 00:11

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I love the macabre finger necklace. Wish there was a macabre hand necklace.

# ¿ May 31, 2017 20:01

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

LordSloth posted:

The answer is always immolation, except when it isn't. Sometimes it is even two or more immolations!

The above may get you dead if you're not wearing heavy armor. rF+++ is actually helpful.

Seconding bigass crossbows or extreme evocations. They've got Hydra levels of MR (60) which is either extremely hard or very easy to overcome. Once everybody else has been exploded, it's much easier to bring the xxxbow or wands to bear. poo poo Evo, then a beam damage wand. As awful as lightning is, it doesn't lose range to intermediate assholes.

Cheibriados has two options, neither of which are slouch. Zin has sanctuary, but your results may vary. Makhleb has executioner's, etc.

Spells always good, from shatter to ignite poison + otr, maybe fire or ice magic if you've deviated from the true paths. If you have enough stealth, and monsters aren't stepping in it, passage of golubria still works, as do a few god abilities and boots of running. My bizzaro shadow dragon scale formicids did manage to lose the remnants after some immolation.

Really, just immolation. That is everything you need to know.

Stop by the discord when playing online, or toss a paste in of your dump when playing locally

Generally with Fo I do V5 by just being such a murder-tank that you can take on all comers. Zin recite can be handy as well.

# ¿ Jun 16, 2017 03:10

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Screw you Crawl: Maurice, Harold, Nergalle, Erolcha, and Fannar all on the same level in sight of the stairwell.

# ¿ Jun 17, 2017 08:24

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Yah I learned that the hard way from the tickle bird.

# ¿ Jun 19, 2017 21:53

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

I've been trying some Op too in light of recent discussion. To me it seems like OpMo gets farther than anything else; push unarmed, go Oka to get a good hat or Gozag for the stores, and you can actually hit things and kill them! One guy I got the tentacle-claw mutation and he was doing pretty good. That said, I've only gotten 2 runes max on any Op so maybe I'm just talking out my rear end.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2017 03:16

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

vulturesrow posted:

I think that Crawl god have forgiven me for screwing up a really good FoFi run I had going earlier this week. My current run I've just finished Lair and Ok has gifted me Trog's Wrath and a +9 CPA with +9 MP(lol) and +5 Dex. I also got a flaming +6 war axe randart before lair with some stats on it as well which made my hydra problems non-existent (which is good because there were a ton of hydras in lair). I also have boots of running which is really nice. Havent found a large shield yet though and I really need some MR. Rings and amulets have been very sparse.

I had a FoFi who found the dead finger necklace cheap in a shop on d4. "Sweet three ring time!" I didn't find a ring until end of Lair.

It was See Invisible

# ¿ Jun 27, 2017 23:02

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Indecisive posted:

Lesson learned, don't go to Pan without rElec (I should have swapped some gear for it, but so few things use elec I thought it'd be ok til I hit Lom). Random Pan lord zapped the gently caress outta me.

Also been trying to do an Ogre Necromancer since it seems like it'd be strong but drat its hard to get going. Got one to lair several times but it always starts running short on killing power even if I'm focusing the gently caress out of my combat skills.

I'm kind of wondering the same thing except with rCorr right now.

The way I've been playing lately is I'll just splat Op and Fe over and over and over because they are sub-optimal and bad and only bad people play them, and then for a break I'll do a murder-kill easy melee like Fo/Gr/Mi/Vs. I've been messing with Hill orcs and they are pretty murder machiney as well. I've never played them much because it always seemed like you had to take Beogh and I didn't want to bother the summon shepherding that entails. So instead I just didn't use Beogh, did an Oka start, and this guy is killing it. Face tanked V5 without having to heal, go upstairs, or even move really. Weird item distribution though, have done everything but Hell + Pan and still haven't found a wand of disintegration.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2017 07:03

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Speaking of that, I've been doing DsFi lately for funzies. I don't have much experience with lvl3 mutations, and I've just gotten "Your demonic blood runs hot!" which has the cool effect of lighting guys on fire if you make them bleed. I've got rF++ on the character currently, am I in danger of burning myself to death? Also this mutation loadout is pretty sweet, though not as overpowered as that augmentation/claws guy earlier: rF+, Blue Scales rC+ AC+4, Robust+30%,talons(boo),night stalker (eh)

EDIT-Whoops, I'm a moron. The second step of the Ignite Blood mutation is immunity from flame clouds. Sorry, I thought it'd be a very roguelike thing to do to give you an ability that's also dangerous to yourself.

In related news, what's a good DsFi god for extended? I've got Invo 18, currently on Oka, normally I'd go TSO/Zin but obviously can't for Ds reasons. I've heard Yred/Kiku but I've got 0 in spellcasting, though a bunch of Necro books have dropped.

Scaramouche fucked around with this message at 05:59 on Jul 2, 2017

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 05:40

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Old Dun Cow posted:

Let me tell you very loudly about Qazlal...

Funny you should say that since Ignite blood is kind of like mini-Qazlal without the noise/other cloud types.

Pros:
- Interaction between Ignite Blood and Flayed Ghosts and Jory is hilarious

Cons:
- Spiders don't have blood? C'mon devs

Have all runes except Hell + Pan but since the guy is a Ds I'm really scared of drawing the Angel level in Pan. As for God, I'm thinking maybe Chei? This char has Talons so can't get Boots of Running at all; either that or Oka, but I haven't done Hell in so long without Zin protection that I'm not looking forward to having to deal with Hell Effects again.

As an aside, I poo-pood Night Stalker for a fighter earlier, but that decreased LOS sure made Tomb a bit easier. Thinking of ditching my Gold Dragon scales and putting on the Shadow Dragon since I've got Night Stalker 3, the Ring of Shadows, and my other arti-ring (rPois +MR) is also +Stealth. Maybe be a flame spewing stealth fighter.

# ¿ Jul 2, 2017 21:56

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

Is there a point of diminishing returns on stacking regen? I've got a VsFi who's level 17, so already at full regen race ability. I also have a Cloak of Regen (and +MR and Slay +4 so possibly one of the best cloaks for a fighter ever), a Hat of Regen, and an Amulet of Regen. I don't have much else to wear in those slots, but I will down the road. Is it worth trying to "max" regen with a low-hp Vs?

# ¿ Jul 9, 2017 01:38

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# ¿ Apr 25, 2024 07:12

Scaramouche: Mar 26, 2001; SPACE FACE! SPACE FACE!

The 10/10/10 idea was exactly what I was going to suggest

# ¿ Jul 20, 2017 17:53

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Crawl .20: Home of the Frog Dog

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