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There's been a ton of racial politics chat in the USPOL thread recently - some of it more heated than others - particularly concerning the white understanding and approach to marijuana Prohibition and how that unjustly leaves oppressed minorities in the cold, politically-speaking. That and other criticisms of Bernie Sanders seemingly pandering to the 'black vote' (future edit: why don't we ever talk about the 'white vote' in America? Weird.  ) as well as Trump's rhetorical division between white America and black communities in the Presidential debates got me thinking about the issue even more.So, simply put: how can white politicians reach out to black and other minority voters in a genuine and authentic way to work on real solutions and not just pander to them, the latter superficially at best and offensive/demeaning at worst? Moreover, do white politicians and people even have a say in the issues concerning black/minority communities? Or does White Privilege simply disqualify said white people from being impartial? Another related question: should white politicians offer reparations to compensate the current generation of black people and other minorities for the horrible crimes and oppression inflicted by white aristocrats of the past? I'm genuinely curious about everybody's thoughts on this, but I *especially* want to hear from the black/minority posters of DnD since, as a white guy myself, I think their perspective on this issue is the most valuable and important of all. The worst possible outcome is just for me or other white people to "whitesplain" away all the issues still facing the black/etc community and to simply not get it because of our Eurocentric predisposition. So, that being said, please feel free to Debate and Discuss. 
Teriyaki Koinku fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 4, 2016 15:29
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Nov 4, 2016 17:28
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They don't need to. Black Lives Matter have been doing all the outreach, but it turns out nobody's really listening. Maybe try working on that? Could be a start. If politicians genuinely want to build bridges they need not wonder how to do that, since people have been openly telling them for quite a while. It sort of makes me doubt their sincerity or their intentions that they are seemingly dumbfounded.
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Nov 4, 2016 17:48
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What they first need to do is to tell all minority political and protest groups they're too extreme and demonize them, then create a narrative that the only "valid" form of protest isn't just totally peaceful but also doesn't bother or inconvenience anyone. Then if minority issues still some how make it through those gates, ask "what about poor white people? What about unrelated issue X? Don't all Y's matter?" and shift the attention back to white people. Then when things continue to not improve for minorities, shift the blame onto them for not building bridges. Or I guess stop doing that and do the opposite?
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Nov 4, 2016 17:52
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:Moreover, do white politicians and people even have a say in the issues concerning black/minority communities? I guess it depends on what you mean? When it comes time to make policy or pass laws then yeah, probably, because those things impact a wider polity than just a minority community even if they are principally targeted at addressing the issues of that community.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:03
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1: Don't be in the Republican Party.
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Nov 4, 2016 18:13
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What about ignoring the anti-intellectualism of the fringe left and building your solutions on facts?
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Nov 4, 2016 22:49
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Mercrom posted:What about ignoring the anti-intellectualism of the fringe left and building your solutions on facts? Oh please elaborate
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Nov 4, 2016 22:53
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botany posted:Oh please elaborate Fringe left candidate Jill Stein thinks wifi is bad for health and carries water for the antivax set.
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Nov 4, 2016 22:55
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Yup. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/01/05/the-new-congress-is-80-percent-white-80-percent-male-and-92-percent-christian/
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Nov 4, 2016 23:04
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Spend a bunch of time listening to people of color. Advocate for policies they support. Talk about systemic racism. Admit white privilege and implicit bias exist and affect you. Basically act like Hillary Clinton.
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Nov 4, 2016 23:46
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:Fringe left candidate Jill Stein thinks wifi is bad for health and carries water for the antivax set. How is that relevant to the discussion at hand?
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Nov 4, 2016 23:48
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botany posted:Oh please elaborate Also don't ignore biases because of virtue. And don't confuse victimhood with virtue. It's easy to believe a good person or a person part of your group is telling the truth. It's very hard to believe an evil person or a person outside of your group is telling the truth.
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Nov 5, 2016 00:33
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Teriyaki Koinku posted:
What do all white politicians look and think like? Don't leave us hanging here, I want to know how to know how to talk to "the minorities".
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Nov 5, 2016 01:13
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JeffersonClay posted:Spend a bunch of time listening to people of color. This is a popular opinion these days and it is rather facile. Its like the cut/paste version of a politically correct answer instead of an answer that is accurate but without any inherent prejudice. The real answer is that you can often find out what people like or want by talking to them. So that should not be hard to find out. Typical stuff that people like is good schools for their kids. You can basically rob people blind but if their schools are good they can live with it. Other than that you could try dealing with the employment situation since people like not dying in the streets penniless. Also not getting victimized by crime is a big plus. These are not all of the things, but they are the biggest. People talk about privilege and bias and poo poo, but everything basically just boils down to jobs, schools and safety. The reasons there are no jobs, schools or safety in minority areas should be pretty obvious since OP is asking about minority outreach. You could do studies and read internet forums and twitter posts and social science stuff, but the answer is going to be lack of money and the lack of access to capital. Merely "advocate for policies they support" is a great way to look like you are pandering and not taking people's actual concerns seriously. In short is a great way to lose credibility since "they" are not a monolith and probably dont agree on all things. I know this because minorities are not members of a hive-mind. In any case, there should be some kind of principled underpinning to your proposals, such as you want your constituents to have good schools, jobs, and be safe. A great way to sound sincere and be authentic is to actually give a poo poo. Systemic racism is a great way to talk about jobs, schools and safety and why there is none. Consequently you could just not since a white politician talking about his or her knowledge of racism might sound hollow, you could try just talking to the people and addressing their concerns. Put simply you could just try to find policies that make the schools better, make more jobs, and make the communities safer, that might work. You could also talk about white privilege and implicit bias but that would be kind of odd since a white politician asking a minority constituency 'what are their local concerns' and 'what are the things that they need' would be an odd time to discuss privilege and bias and a great way to refocus the issue back to yourself instead of the concerns of your constituents. I feel like D&D is a throwback to early days of E/N where people gave good advice instead of just saying, "maybe not be an rear end in a top hat and talk to people". Torpor fucked around with this message at 02:43 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 01:40
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Alright, then at that rate there's quite literally nothing that can be done to prove that a white politician is really going to stand up for minority interests. To be less pithy, it's pretty much what Clinton has been doing - listening, acknowledgement that the system is biased against them, and advocating for practices that would help alleviate those issues. Perhaps her issue is a matter of boldness and scope - she's not advocating for everyone with a low-level drug offense to have their records purged, or anything "crazy" like that. I feel that the best way to make progress for minority communities is to open up more welcoming avenues towards recourse with the justice system, increase labor protections on the low end of the spectrum (minimum wage increases, benefit increases with more progressive means-testing phaseouts, etc), and maybe start a hardcore life skills program aimed at black kids in public schools. Something like, every step of the way in the education process, give kids a choice - do you want to continue with academia, or would you like to start looking into a trade? Give kids guaranteed scholarships/placement into community colleges or vocational programs. Give them laptops and phones with unlimited data plans through mobile tethering. Just... try to alleviate the material inequalities present in our society, while treating them how they want to be treated; that is to say, like white folks. Thoughts? e: I actually feel compelled to continue - mostly along the lines of the free laptops/phones/internet access idea. The social welfare system in many countries is so often focused on the very base human necessities - namely, food. We're obviously not doing enough by providing access to food and affordable housing and free public schools - so as a society, we clearly need to up our ante. Computers and phones could just be the beginning of it - what about incentivizing school attendance? Come to school, get some essential poo poo. Maybe a cash-value voucher for clothing, or shoes, that a kid could spend however they please. It would allow kids to escape the aesthetic trap of poverty, while pumping funny money into the local economy. We live in a country of tremendous abstract wealth, it would be trivial to scrounge up these funds on a federal level. Or how about something like, kid does their homework, they get some bullshit point accrual that they can go use at their school store for whathaveyou. Positive reinforcement!!! It could be the biggest positive grassroots involvement for the feds since the New Deal kept orphans from starving. I really feel like we need more positive reinforcement for good behavior on a broad, societal level. There's no better time to do that than when people are kids. If you establish a positive connection between schooling and personal well-being, you build good habits. MODS CURE JOKES fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 5, 2016 |
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Nov 5, 2016 01:57
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MODS CURE JOKES posted:Something like, every step of the way in the education process, give kids a choice - do you want to continue with academia, or would you like to start looking into a trade? Hmm yes, instead of doing anything to fix the inequalities of the current public school system lets instead reserve a free basic education to whites and cut everyone else loose. However I imagine that after a year or two the demand for millions of plumbers with 4th grade educations might be filled so they might have to move to some other careers. House servant and share cropper sound like potential good options.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:37
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Vocational courses are not a bad thing, the world needs people who actually know how to do useful things more than it does people with qualifications in english lit, not everyone is going to be taken with academic subjects and churning out piles of people with academic qualifications doesn't guarantee them work either, it just means you have a lot of unemployed graduates.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:40
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I think minorities can and should trust all politicians as far as politicians can be trusted. Obviously as always they need to have a clue what they are talking about. The rest is about holding them to their promise and crossing your fingers. If systematic racism isn't talked about by white politicians it can never get solved, just as global warming can never be prevented if politicians in the nations contributing the most it and are the least affected by it don't talk about it. And they will not talk about it if no one even takes their opinion seriously.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:42
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Torpor posted:This is a popular opinion these days and it is rather facile. Its like the cut/paste version of a politically correct answer instead of an answer that is accurate but without any inherent prejudice. Hillary won the large majority of the nonwhite vote in the primary and is going to win an even larger share in the general, despite the fact that she wasn't an exemplar of a white ally 20 years ago. She's winning the POC vote for a reason.
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Nov 5, 2016 02:55
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Mercrom posted:I think minorities can and should trust all politicians as far as politicians can be trusted. Obviously as always they need to have a clue what they are talking about. The rest is about holding them to their promise and crossing your fingers. "Minorities should trust the people upholding systemic racism so those people know they can finally stop upholding systemic racism" seems like a bit of a flawed plan, if you ask me. By which I mean that's ridiculous, minorities would just get ignored like they usually are; the politicians need to make the first move, or at least acknowledge it when asked about it and earn the trust you're saying they deserve by default. Your proposal is like "well if conversations about racism were more polite maybe we'd convert more racists", and we should all know how well that works out in practice.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:10
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Roland Jones posted:"Minorities should trust the people upholding systemic racism so those people know they can finally stop upholding systemic racism" seems like a bit of a flawed plan, if you ask me. It pains me to even point this out but generalizing about individuals because the history of their race is bad. The way you end a conflict isn't by equalizing the prejudice and hatred between the sides.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:27
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OwlFancier posted:Vocational courses are not a bad thing, the world needs people who actually know how to do useful things more than it does people with qualifications in english lit, not everyone is going to be taken with academic subjects and churning out piles of people with academic qualifications doesn't guarantee them work either, it just means you have a lot of unemployed graduates. Surely you see why giving them a meaningless low quality "vocational" education and denying them a real education is a bad thing. You say you wouldn't give them a low quality vocational education? You have some special trick to make sure they get a high quality education? Why not apply that to regular old education first then?
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Nov 5, 2016 03:29
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Mercrom posted:When you write "earn the trust" are you talking about individual politicians or white politicians collectively? Your first sentence makes it sound like that. Trust is earned, not given. And frankly trust isn't earned often enough to be a base for blind optimism.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:35
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Something something actions louder than words And thats pretty much it. Stop paying lip service and do things.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:40
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JeffersonClay posted:Hillary won the large majority of the nonwhite vote in the primary and is going to win an even larger share in the general, despite the fact that she wasn't an exemplar of a white ally 20 years ago. She's winning the POC vote for a reason. It's pretty much a given that black folks will vote for the popular Democrat but signs are pointing to turnout being low this year.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:42
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gohmak posted:It's pretty much a given that black folks will vote for the popular Democrat but signs are pointing to turnout being low this year. No they aren't.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:43
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computer parts posted:No they aren't. http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-african-american-voters-election-2016-ohio-florida-515993
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Nov 5, 2016 03:44
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gohmak posted:http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-african-american-voters-election-2016-ohio-florida-515993 The only statistic in that article says they make up a lower share of the voters, which makes sense if overall turnout is up. Which it is, because Hispanics are breaking records for turnout this year.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:46
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computer parts posted:The only statistic in that article says they make up a lower share of the voters, which makes sense if overall turnout is up. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/us/politics/black-turnout-falls-in-early-voting-boding-ill-for-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0 I hope you are correct and these headlines are deceiving.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:48
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gohmak posted:http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/us/politics/black-turnout-falls-in-early-voting-boding-ill-for-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0 Again, that article is citing percentages. You are literally not reading the articles.
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Nov 5, 2016 03:50
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I'm glad the idea that African American turnout being low is being called out, they're not disinterested at all. It's merely lower than Hispanic rate this year, which is very very good, because Hispanic vote turnout has been shameful (since always).
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Nov 5, 2016 04:41
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Also comparisons to Hispanic turnout is missing that the last two elections had absolutely amazing turnout from African Americans.
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Nov 5, 2016 04:45
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Torpor posted:What do all white politicians look and think like? Don't leave us hanging here, I want to know how to know how to talk to "the minorities". Think of a sliding scale between Atwater/Nixon/Reagan and Trump and you're most of the way there.
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Nov 5, 2016 05:11
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Mercrom posted:Well to answer the OPs question try to judge people on their track record instead of on perceived biases. Realize that everyone has biases and that you can't know them all, and that the safest assumption is that every politician is a selfish psycho and shouldn't be taken for their word but only on the things they can demonstrate. This is why I laughed at Libertarian people in the tank for RON PAUL!!! back in 2008 who were convinced that he was a good upstanding man with principles. Just look at his voting record, that's all you need to know for that guy's hypocrisy.
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Nov 5, 2016 05:14
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gohmak posted:It's pretty much a given that black folks will vote for the popular Democrat but signs are pointing to turnout being low this year. It's not a coincidence that black folks became reliable democratic voters after the political realignment precipitated by LBJ and the civil rights act. They vote for people who they believe will represent their interests, like every other group of people.
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Nov 5, 2016 05:38
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Rigged Death Trap posted:Something something actions louder than words
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Nov 5, 2016 05:52
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gohmak posted:It's pretty much a given that black folks will vote for the popular Democrat but signs are pointing to turnout being low this year. Except African-Americans flocked to her in the primaries. Meanwhile, Bernie was still somewhat struggling in how to talk to people. Like that one story where someone got upset because everything he said had to be couched in generalist terms instead of actually talking directly to black people.
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Nov 5, 2016 06:47
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blackguy32 posted:Except African-Americans flocked to her in the primaries. You realize that Hillary getting more black votes than Bernie in the primaries has nothing to do with the number of black voters that will turn out on election day, right Do you think the black community is going to enthusiastically wait in long lines and stand in the rain for Hillary Clinton
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Nov 5, 2016 07:27
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This, unironically The truth is after 400 years of white ethno-nationalist politics nobody a few shades darker than translucent will ever trust a white politician. Even very guilty, very liberal whites are lovely people behind closed doors.
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Nov 5, 2016 07:34
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