Search Amazon.com:
Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«5 »
  • Locked thread
thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

I was a Windows guy (Win XP!) until roughly 2006 when I switched over to Mac because I loved OS X for software development in general. I still love OS X but is has been progressively shittier ever since they stopped doing the big cat codenames and switched over to calling the versions such incredibly retarded names as "El Capitan" and "Mavericks"

Anyway I think the time has come to call it quits with Apple. I am thinking of building a mid-tier gaming PC that I can also use for software development. I am wondering what is the best version of Windows to get for gaming (should I just go with Win 10?). For development, I really like that OS X is based on Unix (Darwin) and has a full fledged terminal. I'm thinking I might dual boot with some flavor of Linux and just use that for all my development (probably Ubuntu so I can keep using Sublime Text easily) because I've never been a big fan of Cygwin

Anybody in a similar predicament that can give me any tips on making the transition back? I'll still have my work-issue Macbook Pro retina until they force me to get one of the new Macbook Pro abominations.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Windows 10 has bash shell now.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

Don Lapre posted:

Windows 10 has bash shell now.

that's pretty cool maybe I'll give that a shot before I explore a Linux dual boot

Lord Windy
Mar 26, 2010


Just go Linux? Solus is the prettiest thing I've seen for awhile, made me wish I could use it for Mac instead.

eames
May 9, 2009



I'm in a similar situation.

If you're going to build a mid-tier desktop PC then you might want to consider using hackintosh-compatible parts. It won't cost much more and gives you the option of triple-booting macOS in addition to Win10 and Linux if that's your thing.

Other than that I don't have much to add to the discussion yet. I've stopped using their cloud services in an effort to take one step out of the ecosystem but still use macOS for as long as my 15" retina marches on.

Windows 10 is nowhere near as bad as 8.0 was and Surface hardware is nice, but I'm not looking forward to lose the unix base and go back to antivirus programs, corrupted registries and DLL-hell. I do like that Windows is going to support bromium-like microvirtualisation and Microsoft is definitely improving in my eyes.
Linux would be my top choice on paper but the desktop user experience is so extremely inconsistent compared to all other operating systems.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

is hackintosh actually viable these days or is it still a massive pain to keep working through updates? if i could run macos on my own hardware i would. it is just a shame apple's new macbooks are so loving poo poo.

milk milk lemonade
Jul 29, 2016


DLL hell? When was the last time you used Windows lmao

And what kind of scrub tier SH/SC poster needs AV? I have literally never installed it and it's never been an issue.

Don Lapre
Mar 28, 2001

If you're having problems you're either holding the phone wrong or you have tiny girl hands.


Just run windows 10, it works perfectly fine and is reliable. You live in chrome anyway.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

Don Lapre posted:

Just run windows 10, it works perfectly fine and is reliable. You live in chrome anyway.

I don't live in chrome though i rely on tons of *nix tools for work. Is bash fully functional in win10?

BATH TUB
Jun 26, 2003


Windows BASH shell is good if you want is a BASH shell. It's not full-fledged "Linux on Windows" yet. You can kinda get a window manager working, but it's still pretty hinky.

thathonkey posted:

I don't live in chrome though i rely on tons of *nix tools for work. Is bash fully functional in win10?

Yes

BATH TUB fucked around with this message at Nov 5, 2016 around 13:42

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


Don Lapre posted:

Just run windows 10, it works perfectly fine and is reliable. You live in chrome anyway.

If that was the actual case, you'd use a Linux distro and save your money.

Phoenixan
Jan 16, 2010

Just Keep Cool-idge


Just build your desktop & experiment with Windows & various linux distros while holding onto your current Mac. There's nothing wrong with using more than one type of platform.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009



College Slice

thathonkey posted:

I don't live in chrome though i rely on tons of *nix tools for work. Is bash fully functional in win10?

Yes, and you get much more than Bash. MS implemented a Linux subsystem on top of Windows that runs unmodified ELF binaries natively, and provide an Ubuntu 14.04 userspace with apt-get hooked up to the official repos.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-gb/commandline/wsl/about

Guerrand
Mar 12, 2006

RING RING RING RING RING RING

I also "rely on tons of *nix tools for work" but I just run Ubuntu on a VM with a Windows 10 host. Often just run it headless and SSH in.

penus penus penus
Nov 8, 2014

by piss__donald


eames posted:

I'm in a similar situation.

If you're going to build a mid-tier desktop PC then you might want to consider using hackintosh-compatible parts. It won't cost much more and gives you the option of triple-booting macOS in addition to Win10 and Linux if that's your thing.

Other than that I don't have much to add to the discussion yet. I've stopped using their cloud services in an effort to take one step out of the ecosystem but still use macOS for as long as my 15" retina marches on.

Windows 10 is nowhere near as bad as 8.0 was and Surface hardware is nice, but I'm not looking forward to lose the unix base and go back to antivirus programs, corrupted registries and DLL-hell. I do like that Windows is going to support bromium-like microvirtualisation and Microsoft is definitely improving in my eyes.
Linux would be my top choice on paper but the desktop user experience is so extremely inconsistent compared to all other operating systems.

Yeah I'm not saying windows is great (more in the sense of unrealized potential of OS's in general at this point), but DLL hell? Corrupted registries? Anti virus programs and you aren't a senior citizen at the geek squad counter ?

You're in for a pleasant surprise if that's where your bar is at

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Guerrand posted:

I also "rely on tons of *nix tools for work" but I just run Ubuntu on a VM with a Windows 10 host. Often just run it headless and SSH in.

Is there anything this offers that the new built-in Bash for windows doesn't?

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Judge Schnoopy posted:

Is there anything this offers that the new built-in Bash for windows doesn't?

It's an actual Linux install

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

sounds like windows has really come a long way since i made the switch. looking forward to giving it a shot.

it's pretty funny that windows runs bash and has the real sed awk etc programs that come with it. funny in a kinda great way

Judge Schnoopy
Nov 2, 2005

dont even TRY it, pal

Bob Morales posted:

It's an actual Linux install

I set it up last night. It's an Ubuntu install with a Windows mount. There are a lot of limitations with /proc (ifconfig didn't get me anywhere) but apt-get works for mostly everything. Didn't get a lot of time to mess with it but it's interesting.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Judge Schnoopy posted:

I set it up last night. It's an Ubuntu install with a Windows mount. There are a lot of limitations with /proc (ifconfig didn't get me anywhere) but apt-get works for mostly everything. Didn't get a lot of time to mess with it but it's interesting.

No, I was saying an Ubuntu install in a VM is an actual Linux installation

sethsez
Jul 13, 2006

He's soooo
dreamy...


eames posted:

antivirus programs, corrupted registries and DLL-hell

Windows 10 is not a pirated, unpatched copy of Windows XP.

This is a bit like saying "I want to switch to Mac but I'm not looking forward to using that perfectly round one-button mouse."

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Windows is still full of driver weirdness, scaling oddities, hardware functions that don't work after upgrading...

I use 7 every day at work and have personal laptops running 10, installing the latest Mac OS on a 3-5 year old Mac Laptop isn't really any different than on a brand new one. Windows hardware that old can be a lottery even with the well-supported common stuff.

Siochain
May 24, 2005

"can they get rid of any humans who are fans of shitheads like Kanye West, 50 Cent, or any other piece of crap "artist" who thinks they're all that?

And also get rid of anyone who has posted retarded shit on the internet."




Bob Morales posted:

Windows is still full of driver weirdness, scaling oddities, hardware functions that don't work after upgrading...

I use 7 every day at work and have personal laptops running 10, installing the latest Mac OS on a 3-5 year old Mac Laptop isn't really any different than on a brand new one. Windows hardware that old can be a lottery even with the well-supported common stuff.

I'd argue that (anecdotally, of course). I've been testing 10 on a bunch of 6-7 year old PC's at work, and even ones that Dell says "no promise it'll work on 10" are working fine. I've honestly never had issues with anything other than cheapo-as-poo poo stuff, which is the entirety of what people ever really have issues with. But if you bought a $200 Walmart special in 2010, it's probably a PC from 2005, so in 2016 its over 10 years old.

sports
Sep 1, 2012


win10 bash shell is awful.

macos is still usable but im quickly moving to opensuse tumbleweed

HalloKitty
Sep 30, 2005

Adjust the bass and let the Alpine blast


If you grab some specially modified files for vmware, one can run macOS mostly fine (some 3D acceleration issues) on anything. Even updates nicely. Against the terms of service, though.

RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS
Dec 21, 2010


Visual Studio is really good. I kind of wonder if I should go back to developing in .NET.

thathonkey
Jul 17, 2012
Probation
Can't post for 3970 days!


Shredded Hen

Visual Studio is one of the better pieces of software Microsoft has ever made. It's up there with Excel.

RICHUNCLEPENNYBAGS
Dec 21, 2010


thathonkey posted:

Visual Studio is one of the better pieces of software Microsoft has ever made. It's up there with Excel.

It's much easier to appreciate how much rear end it kicks now that I have a job working on a Ruby app where visual debugging is impossible, it's configured for breakpoints but not steps, and it randomly stops running locally every few weeks.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


System76 published this kind of useless blog post about migrating to Ubuntu from the Mac

http://support.system76.com/articles/switch/

SplitScreenGamer
Feb 15, 2017

Bringing back the fun of local multiplayer gaming!


I was an Apple user from the early 90s through the early 2000s, but it made a lot more sense to move to PC. More bang for the buck and the ability to customize my machine exactly how I need it. Haven't missed Macs much.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

SplitScreenGamer posted:

I was an Apple user from the early 90s through the early 2000s, but it made a lot more sense to move to PC. More bang for the buck and the ability to customize my machine exactly how I need it. Haven't missed Macs much.

Same, I was full apple forever excepting my gaming PC. When I switched from iOS to Android it was rough for like a week (honestly, just the move from iMessage to other services was the hard part). Then I switched from a Macbook and iPad to a Surface Pro 4 and love it. Just 3 devices nowadays, a Home PC, a work PC, and a phone, and they can all talk to each other just as much as the Apple side, with the exception of iMessage. I get a lot more capabilities, I spend less on poo poo, and if things get hosed up I can fix it myself.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


You're from the US right? In Europe iMessage could as well be non-existent, WhatsApp is the standard over here.

kujeger
Feb 19, 2004

OH YES HA HA

Fun Shoe

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

You're from the US right? In Europe iMessage could as well be non-existent, WhatsApp is the standard over here.

Probably quite regional. E.g., the only people I know about that use WhatsApp are my American relatives. Everybody else is using facebook or skype.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Just enter your Apple ID to continue.

Just enter your Apple ID to continue.

Just enter your Apple ID to continue.
etc

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

You're from the US right? In Europe iMessage could as well be non-existent, WhatsApp is the standard over here.

Yeah, my family and work relationships are all very much married to the apple line of products so the concept of NOT using iMessage blows their minds. Why is America so specifically weirdly locked into Apple stuff?

Aunt Beth
Feb 23, 2006

Baby, you're ready!

Grimey Drawer

jokes posted:

Why is America so specifically weirdly locked into Apple stuff?
Because Apple marketing did a phenomenal job of presenting their products as a status symbol for creative geniuses, and so everyone wants to appear like a creative genius with their iPhone and Apple Watch and iMac and iPad and EarPods and

...as I post this from my iPhone BECAUSE I AM SPECIAL AND WEALTHY, DAMNIT.

Secht
Oct 5, 2012


jokes posted:

Same, I was full apple forever excepting my gaming PC. When I switched from iOS to Android it was rough for like a week (honestly, just the move from iMessage to other services was the hard part). Then I switched from a Macbook and iPad to a Surface Pro 4 and love it. Just 3 devices nowadays, a Home PC, a work PC, and a phone, and they can all talk to each other just as much as the Apple side, with the exception of iMessage. I get a lot more capabilities, I spend less on poo poo, and if things get hosed up I can fix it myself.

Yeah this was me, except I kept the iPhone. The transition at first felt like meeting an old friend and discovering his sister was pretty hot (Windows 10 / Surface 4). I am enjoying having flexibility in what tools I work with and how they work. A few frustrations along the way, but I really don't miss Mac's much at all. poo poo is absolutely cheaper and quality in PC hardware has come a long way. Competition does that, and my thanks to Apple for kicking the rear end of Microsoft / PC manufactures to get us here.

This thread is like finding out I wasn't alone.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


I never do anything with my iPhone and my Mac except copy videos over and do the backup device to iTunes when I get a new one.

Cakebaker
Jul 23, 2007
Wanna buy some cake?

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

You're from the US right? In Europe iMessage could as well be non-existent, WhatsApp is the standard over here.

Weird statement. I haven't even had whatsapp installed since like 2013. Where I'm at most are on iOS, there was never any sort of mass adaption of an extra app just for texting, and most didn't seem to think too hard about the fact that messages would occasionally be green instead of blue.
Then FB messenger came along, has been steadily taking over more and more each year, and is now definitely the default for regular communication. Especially now that it does everything, including video. It's probably been years since the last time I exchanged phone numbers with someone.

Of course I wouldn't randomly extrapolate that to the entire continent because that would be... weird.
But it strikes me as against the laws of physics that iMessage could be close to non-existent _anywhere_, since if your boss, grampa or whoever else sends you a regular text and you both happen to have iPhones they'll be using iMessage whether they know it or not.

Anyways, hackintoshing is cool and good and everyone should do it. Mine was a PITA to set up because every single part of my setup is unsupported, but I haven't had to fiddle with it in like a year.
It just works, which ironically is more than I can say about my past couple macbooks.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

InfrastructureWeek
Oct 16, 2008

time is a flat circle


Nap Ghost

thathonkey posted:

I don't live in chrome though i rely on tons of *nix tools for work. Is bash fully functional in win10?

I'm the guy that 'relies on tons *nix tools' but installs Windows instead.

You can even play games on Linux these days, sheesh.

  • Locked thread
«5 »