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NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Cakebaker posted:

But it strikes me as against the laws of physics that iMessage could be close to non-existent _anywhere_, since if your boss, grampa or whoever else sends you a regular text and you both happen to have iPhones they'll be using iMessage whether they know it or not.

Sending a text is literally called "sending a app" here now. They would be using whatsapp.
I don't think anyone has sent a regular text message in years.

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Pryor on Fire
May 14, 2013


Goddamn brits need to learn english, you're not sending an executable application. Preposterous!

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


NihilismNow posted:

Sending a text is literally called "sending a app" here now. They would be using whatsapp.
I don't think anyone has sent a regular text message in years.

Where is "here"?

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Bob Morales posted:

Where is "here"?

Netherlands. Not sure how it is for the rest of Europe.
Most neighbourhood watches are now called "whatsapp neighbourhood watch".

Cakebaker
Jul 23, 2007
Wanna buy some cake?

Interesting! Funny how it differs so much between regions.

Can't really wrap my head around what need whatsapp actually fills in this day and age. Considering the amount of ground covered by messenger, when it comes to the rest (as in the boss/grampa example) why doesn't SMS suffice?
Is tons of free/included texts not standard or something? Only reason I can think of.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


Cakebaker posted:

Interesting! Funny how it differs so much between regions.

Can't really wrap my head around what need whatsapp actually fills in this day and age. Considering the amount of ground covered by messenger, when it comes to the rest (as in the boss/grampa example) why doesn't SMS suffice?
Is tons of free/included texts not standard or something? Only reason I can think of.

Never used it myself but this is what I've read

To elaborate, there are many reasons 1. They have a no ads policy which is a really godsend thing when other messengers had stickers, games and just plain annoying ads. 2. The ones that did not, for ex Google etc were not really made for phones. They understood the importance of using your contacts as social graph really really well. Whatsapp is avaiable native for almost every phone even the cheapest ones 3. They almost never experienced outages. 4. Had sensible defaults. 5. Their apps are lightweight (memory and cpu wise) compared to amount of time one spends on it. 6. Had no api and generally very low spam compared to sms. SMS has really high spam in the developing world. 7. Rich media compared to SMS and no character restrictions

I think west really hates it as most of the people there have iphone and they had this $1 signup which made it unpopular there. They never had that on android which made it a darling of non-west

Confusion
Apr 3, 2009


Cakebaker posted:

Interesting! Funny how it differs so much between regions.

Can't really wrap my head around what need whatsapp actually fills in this day and age. Considering the amount of ground covered by messenger, when it comes to the rest (as in the boss/grampa example) why doesn't SMS suffice?
Is tons of free/included texts not standard or something? Only reason I can think of.

The reason why WhatsApp is so popular in the Netherlands is quite funny as well.

A couple of years ago (before free/unlimited texts was common) telcos saw their revenue from text messages beginning to drop because of services like WhatsApp and came up with the brilliant idea of charging money for WhatsApp messages (through inspection of tcp packets). This caused a big fuss in the media which gave WhatsApp a ton of free press and almost instant marketshare really early. It remains big now now mostly because of market inertia.
(The media fuss over this idea als had the added effect of waking politicians up and getting them to put net neutrality into law, so the telcos actually hosed themselves over double with it.)

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

It's a great service. The name is terrible, FB still tracks who you talk to and in what manner etc., though doesn't read the content, it's an ugly default wallpaper and has poo poo for theme capabilities but it's free and it works, so.

e: I wonder if Apple is really banking on iMessage being a strong enough reason to stick with iOS. For me, and most people who switched to Android, it's the only thing that makes them want to stay with/go back to iOS. (I'm in the US).

Google is really dumb for having never come up with a sufficient replacement.

jokes fucked around with this message at Mar 3, 2017 around 21:04

Comatoast
Aug 1, 2003


The Awful app keeps me on iOS. The android version doesn't compare.

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

Comatoast posted:

The Awful app keeps me on iOS. The android version doesn't compare.

The website itself is pretty mobile friendly.

Ethereal
Mar 8, 2003


I'm in the process of migrating my music collection to google play music. Apple music has been a clusterfuck that has mismatched far too much stuff. Google photos is better than iCloud photos too.

Once I'm done migrating to those services, then I'll be ready for the next pixel.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


I really want a phone that has a touchscreen, a camera but no ios or android.

I am starting to dislike Google a whole lot and Apple can get stuffed after their "courage" bullshit.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Mr Shiny Pants posted:

I really want a phone that has a touchscreen, a camera but no ios or android.

I am starting to dislike Google a whole lot and Apple can get stuffed after their "courage" bullshit.

Like a feature phone or do you want a smartphone, you just hate both major OSes?

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Platystemon posted:

Like a feature phone or do you want a smartphone, you just hate both major OSes?

SmartPhone maybe, does not have to be, I use my phone first and foremost as a phone and the extra functionality is nice to have but not necessary. A good camera is though, I find it very handy to keep around. And something like Whatsapp would be cool.

IOs's flat look sucks compared to how it was in my opinion, it was really easy to figure out before. Now you can't even tell if something is a button or not. It looks nice though. I guess that is something.

Google are just evil, they have a for too wide a reach in peoples lives in my opinion, so no Android no.

Siochain
May 24, 2005

"can they get rid of any humans who are fans of shitheads like Kanye West, 50 Cent, or any other piece of crap "artist" who thinks they're all that?

And also get rid of anyone who has posted retarded shit on the internet."




Comatoast posted:

The Awful app keeps me on iOS. The android version doesn't compare.

Really? I use both and the Android version is so much better, at least for me.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



Awfull.app freezes whenever I rotate the phone, which is pretty terrible.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Mr Shiny Pants posted:

I really want a phone that has a touchscreen, a camera but no ios or android.

I am starting to dislike Google a whole lot and Apple can get stuffed after their "courage" bullshit.

Windows phone exists (for now). Yes i know it is easy to forget. Also questionable if it is really all that different to have microsoft harvest your personal data over google.
You could also find a phone that runs AOSP without google services. But android without google services isn't very useful.
Firefox OS is dead and Sailfish seems to exist only theoretically.

Col.Kiwi
Dec 28, 2004
And the grave digger puts on the forceps...

If the primary concern about Google is data collection I personally would get a rootable android phone, root it and do as you please with it. Root and install Orbot if you're hardcore. You don't have to log into a google account or use google services, you can just use whatsapp or whatever you want a smartphone for. Google doesn't get licensing fees for Android so if you don't get a Nexus phone you're not giving them any money.

If I knew of a real alternative that offers a real smartphone experience I'd say go for it, but I don't. As far as I know your options are an OS from one of the big evil corps, whether its Apple/Google/Microsoft, or getting a dumbphone.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Mr Shiny Pants posted:

SmartPhone maybe, does not have to be, I use my phone first and foremost as a phone and the extra functionality is nice to have but not necessary. A good camera is though, I find it very handy to keep around. And something like Whatsapp would be cool.

IOs's flat look sucks compared to how it was in my opinion, it was really easy to figure out before. Now you can't even tell if something is a button or not. It looks nice though. I guess that is something.

Google are just evil, they have a for too wide a reach in peoples lives in my opinion, so no Android no.

This won't happen, but I would find it interesting if someone started buying up iPhones 4S in good condition, downgrading them back down to IOS6.x whatever was the latest, and selling them to people sick of "modern" bullshit.

Ethereal
Mar 8, 2003


Finished migrating my music to google play music. Turns out iTunes has silently lost a couple of albums over the years despite the entry existing in the library.

So far I like the generated playlists better and ad free YouTube on top is just icing.

R3DW0LF
Apr 4, 2016


I used to have a macbook for work and it was really great for development. But now I just put linux in a VM and installed xming on windows and its just as good now, maybe even better since its actually linux now and not apples unix knockoff.

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


~Coxy posted:

This won't happen, but I would find it interesting if someone started buying up iPhones 4S in good condition, downgrading them back down to IOS6.x whatever was the latest, and selling them to people sick of "modern" bullshit.

You know how it works: I am over 35 so anything new is automatically sucky.

Quoting Douglas Adams:

quote:

I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

Mr Shiny Pants fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2017 around 08:29

ChocNitty
Aug 3, 2011


Im an IT guy, and used to build a new gaming PC every 3 years or so.

One day I got a free iMac, decided to use it, learn it, and expand my technical knowledge.

After using it for a few weeks, macs became my tool of choice for everything except gaming.

It's still that way now, even though Apple is declining without jobs, because Windows 10 sucks, but most importantly, there's just not a killer app on PC. For me at least. For people who like strategy games and flight sims, PC is the way to go. There's no MMO thats dominating like WoW was 10 years ago. And so many developers that used to cater to PC, like Crytek, are focused on consoles because of piracy. Most all of the cream of the crop games are on console now. And it's surprising what some developers can do with them. Titanfall 2 is beautiful and runs at 60fps on the XB1. Horizon on the PS4, not even the pro on a 4k screen, but a slim model on a 1080p TV, looks like its coming from a new $2,000 gaming tower.

There's just no incentive for me to go back to PC right now.

Arzachel
May 12, 2012


ChocNitty posted:

Im an IT guy, and used to build a new gaming PC every 3 years or so.

One day I got a free iMac, decided to use it, learn it, and expand my technical knowledge.

After using it for a few weeks, macs became my tool of choice for everything except gaming.

It's still that way now, even though Apple is declining without jobs, because Windows 10 sucks, but most importantly, there's just not a killer app on PC. For me at least. For people who like strategy games and flight sims, PC is the way to go. There's no MMO thats dominating like WoW was 10 years ago. And so many developers that used to cater to PC, like Crytek, are focused on consoles because of piracy. Most all of the cream of the crop games are on console now. And it's surprising what some developers can do with them. Titanfall 2 is beautiful and runs at 60fps on the XB1. Horizon on the PS4, not even the pro on a 4k screen, but a slim model on a 1080p TV, looks like its coming from a new $2,000 gaming tower.

There's just no incentive for me to go back to PC right now.

Whoa there time traveling gamer dude, mixing early 2000s arguments with present day games in a single post will cause a time paradox!

redeyes
Sep 14, 2002
I LOVE THE WHITE STRIPES!

ChocNitty posted:

Im an IT guy, and used to build a new gaming PC every 3 years or so.

One day I got a free iMac, decided to use it, learn it, and expand my technical knowledge.

After using it for a few weeks, macs became my tool of choice for everything except gaming.

It's still that way now, even though Apple is declining without jobs, because Windows 10 sucks, but most importantly, there's just not a killer app on PC. For me at least. For people who like strategy games and flight sims, PC is the way to go. There's no MMO thats dominating like WoW was 10 years ago. And so many developers that used to cater to PC, like Crytek, are focused on consoles because of piracy. Most all of the cream of the crop games are on console now. And it's surprising what some developers can do with them. Titanfall 2 is beautiful and runs at 60fps on the XB1. Horizon on the PS4, not even the pro on a 4k screen, but a slim model on a 1080p TV, looks like its coming from a new $2,000 gaming tower.

There's just no incentive for me to go back to PC right now.

It's great an Apple appliance works for you instead of a PC. Its awesome relying on a company to make sure your computer works. I mean what kind of nerd wants to actually open their PC and do things to the components?! Insanity.

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

He has a point, though. Apple makes poo poo work. That amount of poo poo is just very small, and very expensive. If you're only going to be using that small amount of poo poo, why not buy an apple product? At least with the laptops and such, the battery is always "fine" and they can do basic poo poo and certain apps without any problem. Almost everyone just does basic tasks on their computer anyways, and old people are VERY bad with money and VERY bad with technology, so Apple products just make sense to them.

My parents are happy pretending iPhones are the out-and-out superior phone, they are for rich people and as such are status symbols and they only use iMessage and safari and e-mail. They're happy dropping $800 for every new iPhone and every new iPad because they honestly feel like other people would look down on them if they don't have the latest greatest phone. I tried to explain they could simply not buy a new phone and new iPad for a year and instead buy a T bracelet from Tiffany's or something but somehow when they watch an ad/new article for the new iPhone their old phone starts acting up and they just can't get it to work again, etc. Granted, I use a Google Pixel, but that's more for the fact that I don't upgrade my devices that much and I got it for $10/mo from Verizon for 2 years.

Magwai
Aug 16, 2002
Snail Priest

redeyes posted:

It's great an Apple appliance works for you instead of a PC. Its awesome relying on a company to make sure your computer works. I mean what kind of nerd wants to actually open their PC and do things to the components?! Insanity.

I can't speak for the Trash can's, but I've had to do just as much stuff inside my 2012 Mac Pro as I've had to do on any of my other PC's after I've built them. Upgrade CPU to 6 core xeon, RAM, Add PCIE SSD card and USB 3.1, Really the only thing I haven't done with it is replace the CPU Board with a Dual CPU board because that's just too much money to spend on a dumpster find.

As far as laptops go, Yeah, not much you can do with them now, it sucks. But that also seems to be the way of other notebook manufacturers.

I use Apple for IT work too. Mostly because at least for me, it's nice to have a unix environment, and a workable desktop OS in the same machine. I am curious to give bash on windows another look after the next update to see if I can use more network tools under it. I'm not super crazy about Windows 10, but I don't really get a lot of the hate for it either. I like it better than 8/8.1, and I respect the fact that at least Microsoft is actually trying to think about how we will use PC's and laptops going forward. I don't think they've hit the mark, but I appreciate the thought.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

I TOO AM A CYBER SECURITY HACKING DIVINING ROD EXPERT

0-DAYS DO NOT AFFECT USERS AT ALL. WHAT DO YOU MEAN ANGLER? NEVER HEARD OF IT. IT PROBABLY DID NOT DO ANYTHING SUPER SERIOUS

PLEASE TAKE MY FACTUALLY WRONG OPINIONS AS FACTS


I'm quite familiar with Macs and PCs, and have been for many years, but have usually been a PC guy. I switched over to an iPhone 7 after having a Android phone for the longest time, mostly out of curiosity. I knew it was a solid phone, and I wanted to try out the interconnected platform. Certainly some elements of it are nice, the hardware is solid, and I like that it all seems to have good design. But frankly I haven't really found it to be all that much simpler to use, because I'm not content with just using Apple services for everything, particularly when there's superior or less expensive alternatives. I still have to put in time to troubleshoot software and apps, or figure out connectivity issues, only the reason is typically trying to find a way to circumvent Apple's content blocks. rather than taming disparate software. And even when I'm helping friends who only use Apple products and don't have out-sized expectations, there's still mysterious problems that routinely crop up and require a lot of time to resolve. My girlfriend's phone, for example, has a variety of issues that seem to stem from an unsuccessful system restore after upgrading her phone, and the only solution appears to be completely wiping her account and starting over (which she of course doesn't want to do). And so while it has been interesting checking out the phone, and I'm fairly happy with it, I don't think that I'll be getting another Apple product any time soon.

Apple has tried to present itself as being this beautiful walled garden, where everything within works beautifully and so you just never need to leave. But to my mind there's just too many good alternatives out there, and for the most part they seem to work together better and are easier to use. I was hoping to find some sort of compromise where I could have an Apple phone or laptop without embracing the entire product line, but frankly it just hasn't worked out that way. It's just been compromises the entire way: Either I purchase an expensive Apple device/app/service that typically has its own performance drawbacks, or I continue using my existing alternative but lose access to fundamental features due to Apple's restrictions.

Apple's best product quality, to my mind, is in reducing complexity for the end-user. Customers don't really need to inform themselves about Apple products; they're all version-numbered, have acceptable performance, are generally expensive, and are compatible with other Apple products. This is great for someone that doesn't want to look at reviews, is able to pay a premium so that all of their devices are from Apple, and is willing to settle for whatever seems to work. But it doesn't seem like a very good fit for me. I'd been seriously considering both a Mac laptop and an iPad, but after my experience with my iPhone, I don't think that I will continue investing in Apple's ecosystem.

Cakebaker posted:

Interesting! Funny how it differs so much between regions.

Can't really wrap my head around what need whatsapp actually fills in this day and age. Considering the amount of ground covered by messenger, when it comes to the rest (as in the boss/grampa example) why doesn't SMS suffice?
Is tons of free/included texts not standard or something? Only reason I can think of.

When I was living in Spain, essentially everyone used Whatsapp, and part of the reason was that SMS and voice minutes were not free. Most people I knew were using cheap data plans where you could get maybe one or two gigs of data, perhaps thirty minutes of calling, and a couple hundred text messages, for about $10-$15/month. Whatsapp has all the features that anyone could want, is service/hardware agnostic, is non-bloated and fairly secure, and lets you separate your contact groups so you can talk to your boss without bringing them into your Facebook network or whatever.

Kaal fucked around with this message at Mar 8, 2017 around 21:58

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

I divorced them last year after 12 years. Indeed, back when I got my first Mac, a Powerbook 12", they were leaps and bounds ahead of PC. Vista was just around the corner, PC laptops were big and clunky and wouldn't sleep reliably, and here was this sleek machine, much better portability and build quality, no CD trays or other things sticking out, amazing OS, etc.

For me I'd say Snow Leopard was about the peak. They'd gone Intel, I had my MacBook Pro, all the features of the OS were fleshed out etc. Since then they just kind of stagnated as attention shifted towards iPads, and they've shown less and less interest in macOS despite their occasional reassurances of "we're still totally committed!"
Last year was when, just like seemingly everything else in the western world, it all went to total poo poo and I decided enough was enough. Sidegraded / slight-upgraded from 2011 MacBook Air to 2012 Thinkpad X220 and got used to running Windows full time again, I love Windows 10 it's such a vast improvement, and am now in the market for something more current.

In the latter years the only thing really keeping me to macOS was Aperture, and they've abandoned that. It was a pain moving everything to Lightroom, but I have no regrets now and without Aperture macOS had literally no benefit over Windows 10 to me. Conversely, 10 has done a good job (after the shitshow of 8) in marrying touchscreen to traditional desktop.

Can't see myself going back any time soon, particularly at the eye-watering prices they charge right now and the frankly embarrassing museum pieces that are everything in their Mac lineup except the new MBPs. Besides, I'd forgotten how nice the PC's system of home/end/pgup/pgdn behaviour is

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Mar 20, 2017 around 15:39

Craptacular!
Jul 9, 2001

Fuck the DH


I'm absolutely fine with Apple, but I've never owned a legitimate Mac since the original Mac Mini.

I'm the total reverse of this thread on mobile equipment. So long as Android allows open hardware profiles supported by driver blobs provided by the manufacturer, I'm out. I used it for five years (technically six) and every Android device I owned had at LEAST a year where I ran Cyanogen or something on it to use an OS on a device that the manufacturer ended support for. It often came down to nothing more complicated than wanting to sell you a new phone, though other reasons included carriers and "Google can't get Samsung to update the Exynos blobs" (hi, Nexus 10).

I owned one carrier branded device (GS2 i777 AT&T) and four Nexus devices (Nexus 1/4/5/10) and while the N1 had critical hardware nearsightedness, everything else was discarded on the trash heap of progress before it's time. And along the way I experienced batteries that drained super fast, a phone I had to reboot every time I turned on the camera because the camera wouldn't turn off and would devour the battery in an hour, a tablet that would randomly BRRRRRZT and reboot when playing YouTube, encryption so bad that users revolted when it was enabled, etc.

Apple doesn't have enough hardware engineers to keep all of the products up to date, and I wish there was a modular Mac with state of the art components, or a MacBook with a touch screen, as much as anyone else does. But I can't kiss the iPhone's rear end enough.

Tablets will be a more interesting story. Android tablets are hindered by the lovely Chrome for Android, and a world of software that is either dodgy or designed entire for phones. Google's tablets will get much more interesting when they're running Chrome OS with an Android app engine that's actually stable. If I can run a desktop class browser with uBlock Origin and occasionally open Android-based utilities and games as I want, that's a much bigger deal.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

I'm really coming around to Windows on tablets TBH. They don't seem as dependent on having a custom mobile OS as phones are, now there's Windows 10 - you get all the flexibility but can easily use them in tablet mode most of the time for the usual casual tablet browsing/watching.

iPads are nice, but silly money, especially if you want a GPS in it.

Lum
Aug 13, 2003



Wouldn't say bash on Windows is 100% functional yet.

For example the ionice command doesn't work, so you have to install a lovely wrapper script to attempt to compile Android, and even then it fails on something else, at which point you give up and install a Debian VM.

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

I've been wanting to ditch Apple for awhile now as well, at least from the hardware side. Problem is I still like mac OS. The solution I've come up with is to get a high end chromebook. Then I will see if I can get mac OS running in Virtual Box. Alternately I may be able to host a mac OS VM on my Synology NAS in the near future as they are updating their virtual machine manager package. If all else fails I will suck it up and really learn Linux.

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



macOS sucks but going to Windows seems like the wrong direction lol

Smashing Link posted:

I've been wanting to ditch Apple for awhile now as well, at least from the hardware side. Problem is I still like mac OS. The solution I've come up with is to get a high end chromebook. Then I will see if I can get mac OS running in Virtual Box. Alternately I may be able to host a mac OS VM on my Synology NAS in the near future as they are updating their virtual machine manager package. If all else fails I will suck it up and really learn Linux.

elementary.io

Turdsdown Tom
Dec 16, 2011

NEVER count me out!


ChocNitty posted:

Im an IT guy, and used to build a new gaming PC every 3 years or so.

One day I got a free iMac, decided to use it, learn it, and expand my technical knowledge.

After using it for a few weeks, macs became my tool of choice for everything except gaming.


There's just no incentive for me to go back to PC right now.

You're either not an IT guy (most likely) or your "experience" in IT involves installing software off of a CD-ROM.

I think the use of the phrase "I'm an IT guy" makes it obvious which one it is.

skull mask mcgee
Nov 14, 2016


Could y'all source your quotes in this thread?

xtal
Jan 9, 2011



Turdsdown Tom posted:

You're either not an IT guy (most likely) or your "experience" in IT involves installing software off of a CD-ROM.

I think the use of the phrase "I'm an IT guy" makes it obvious which one it is.

IT means they set up the wifi right?

Bill Barber
Aug 26, 2015

ask me about my worthless white noise posting in games


Hot Rope Guy

e; this thread is a billion years old. disregard.

64bit_Dophins
Jan 2, 2014


Mr Shiny Pants posted:

You know how it works: I am over 35 so anything new is automatically sucky.


I'm 22 and I'm already starting to feel this way.

My desktop is still running Windows 7 and the poly-carb white macbook that I barely use anymore is still running Snow Leopard.

Snow Leopard was the last good Mac OS imo. From what I've seen online the new OSs don't seem to provide any new features that I would care about and just seem like a general headache.

I don't really know what market these tech companies are going for anymore.

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Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



64bit_Dophins posted:

Snow Leopard was the last good Mac OS imo. From what I've seen online the new OSs don't seem to provide any new features that I would care about and just seem like a general headache.

Security updates.

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