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Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


64bit_Dophins posted:

I'm 22 and I'm already starting to feel this way.

Ain't it grand? I would have paid MS over a 100 bucks for something like Windows 10 without the telemetry, Cortana, forced updates including drivers, the store, ads on the desktop, startmenu and now even explorer. Then we have OSX which seems to have jumped the shark in recent times with Siri, network speeds that are half of what I get on my NAS using Windows, problems with display port video cards ( I am not the only one, I checked even the laptops exhibit problems when I last checked) and hardware that is irrelevant for three years now (Mac Pro ). iOS is getting worse with all the baggage they are stuffing into it and the flat shaded stuff is truly terrible IMO. That is not even getting into the headphone jack retardedness.

It seems like a couple of years ago these software companies got to a point where they thought they would never be: stuff was finished, the OS was good enough. But instead of polishing it and removing the rough edges ( Windows: dialog boxes from NT4? The look and feel could be more consistent, kernel can be made better etc. etc.) they started stuffing extraneous bullshit in the OS.

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Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


Windows 10 forced updates are sort of a blessing in disguise. My maternal grandmother for example won't have to worry about ransomware when she's continually updated (I assume, I know very little of ransomware and grandmothers).

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Boiled Water posted:

Windows 10 forced updates are sort of a blessing in disguise. My maternal grandmother for example won't have to worry about ransomware when she's continually updated (I assume, I know very little of ransomware and grandmothers).

Probably, if they could have kept the Pro version the Pro version it would be alright. Enterprise is where its at, but you can't really buy it as a consumer.

Kaal
May 22, 2002

I TOO AM A CYBER SECURITY HACKING DIVINING ROD EXPERT

0-DAYS DO NOT AFFECT USERS AT ALL. WHAT DO YOU MEAN ANGLER? NEVER HEARD OF IT. IT PROBABLY DID NOT DO ANYTHING SUPER SERIOUS

PLEASE TAKE MY FACTUALLY WRONG OPINIONS AS FACTS


Boiled Water posted:

Windows 10 forced updates are sort of a blessing in disguise. My maternal grandmother for example won't have to worry about ransomware when she's continually updated (I assume, I know very little of ransomware and grandmothers).

Yeah forced updates are a good thing. They allow users to opt out, but intentionally make it more difficult to do that then to just let the updates go forward. You should have a good reason to not update, not just a feeling of not wanting to be bothered.

Double Punctuation
Dec 30, 2009

Ships were made for sinking;
Whiskey made for drinking;
If we were made of cellophane
We'd all get stinking drunk much faster!


Mr Shiny Pants posted:

Probably, if they could have kept the Pro version the Pro version it would be alright. Enterprise is where its at, but you can't really buy it as a consumer.

How do you go about getting it, anyway? Can you just call up a partner and tell them you need one SA license, or is it more complicated?

Boris Galerkin
Dec 17, 2011


Kaal posted:

Yeah forced updates are a good thing. They allow users to opt out, but intentionally make it more difficult to do that then to just let the updates go forward. You should have a good reason to not update, not just a feeling of not wanting to be bothered.

This weekend the loving blue box that pops up askingtelling you to get new updates popped up and took over my entire monitor during a gaming session. I mean on the grand scheme of things it's no big deal because I'm not a ~streamer~ or anything but what the gently caress dude there's no way to justify that poo poo taking over my entire screen. The only way to get out of it is to hit "ok" which brings up another stupid windows 10 metro whatever style box telling me about updates, which does let you just close it by hitting "x" in the corner.

All I'm saying is this is loving stupid and I loving hate that god drat pop up.

I'm not against updating but either make it 100% transparent to me and never bother me with that poo poo or let me disable it once and for all and do it manually. I have no idea what setting it's in cause I get the idea that it should be automatic but I've probably messed up some settings just by googling for random poo poo like "how do I uninstall candy crush" and "why the gently caress does candy crush keep reinstalling" and then just pasting whatever the hell the websites tell me to paste into powershell.

Boris Galerkin fucked around with this message at Mar 27, 2017 around 17:56

megalodong
Mar 11, 2008



My experience with android was the "flagship" galaxy s, which had the worst gps ever, didn't get updated past i think 2 versions of android (the first of which was already old by the time the phone launched), and was then replaced by the next "flagship" in short time.
It also had samsung's utterly terrible "Robust File System" which slowed the entire phone to a halt if you installed something, or eventually after enough general use would just run like dogshit anyway

quote:

Before you go congratulating them on a great job, remember this is the second time they did this. The original attempt was called Robust File System. It was an abortion based on FAT16/32 with a duplicated file allocation table and some sort of journalling hacked on top.

It was claimed to be optimised for NAND devices and all that other good stuff, but the community quickly came to rename it Really loving Slow.

This file system was so slow that on the original Galaxy S the kernel would think software locked up while writing to the disk and prompt the user to force close the device. Search for "lagfix" if you're interested in what a disaster this was. There were users world wide trying to find fixes for the slow system performance, and the fix was often in the form of a kernel which supported ext4 or yaffs and a utility which converted the entire /system and /data partitions in the phone to the more common file systems.

I'm hopeful things aren't so bad now, haven't seen any phone with a feature point of "HAS A BAROMETER" lately, but that phone made me run to the iphone and never look back. Is android not a shitshow any more?

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


Kaal posted:

Yeah forced updates are a good thing. They allow users to opt out, but intentionally make it more difficult to do that then to just let the updates go forward. You should have a good reason to not update, not just a feeling of not wanting to be bothered.

No they are not, the OS serves you not the other way around. Windows has a long history of always nagging you for poo poo. I'll update when I want to, don't presume to know better. For example: http://www.digitaltrends.com/comput...asketball-game/

metallicaeg
Nov 28, 2005

Evil Red Wings Owner Wario Lemieux Steals Stanley Cup


megalodong posted:

My experience with android was the "flagship" galaxy s, which had the worst gps ever, didn't get updated past i think 2 versions of android (the first of which was already old by the time the phone launched), and was then replaced by the next "flagship" in short time.
It also had samsung's utterly terrible "Robust File System" which slowed the entire phone to a halt if you installed something, or eventually after enough general use would just run like dogshit anyway


I'm hopeful things aren't so bad now, haven't seen any phone with a feature point of "HAS A BAROMETER" lately, but that phone made me run to the iphone and never look back. Is android not a shitshow any more?

Android is great. Don't let your experiences of Android version 2 on a Galaxy S that launched 7 years ago dissuade you from excluding it from the rest of your life.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

Kaal posted:

Yeah forced updates are a good thing. They allow users to opt out, but intentionally make it more difficult to do that then to just let the updates go forward. You should have a good reason to not update, not just a feeling of not wanting to be bothered.

Haha gently caress that you people are loving retarded. The fact that they stopped releasing patch notes is good enough reason not to trust them. I will admit though, it was amusing watching my coworker burn an hour in the middle of the workday last week while his win10 install decided to update with no opt out. As for me I will stick with my macs. For gaming I'm doing a win10 pc on its own firewalled vlan with steam remote play. If you dumbasses want to trust a company that puts ads on solitaire and file explorer and overrides hosts file entries so they can have enable unfettered control over your PC, be my guest.

~Coxy
Dec 9, 2003

R.I.P. Inter-OS Sass - b.2000AD d.2003AD

Boris Galerkin posted:

This weekend the loving blue box that pops up askingtelling you to get new updates popped up and took over my entire monitor during a gaming session. I mean on the grand scheme of things it's no big deal because I'm not a ~streamer~ or anything but what the gently caress dude there's no way to justify that poo poo taking over my entire screen. The only way to get out of it is to hit "ok" which brings up another stupid windows 10 metro whatever style box telling me about updates, which does let you just close it by hitting "x" in the corner.

All I'm saying is this is loving stupid and I loving hate that god drat pop up.

I'm not against updating but either make it 100% transparent to me and never bother me with that poo poo or let me disable it once and for all and do it manually. I have no idea what setting it's in cause I get the idea that it should be automatic but I've probably messed up some settings just by googling for random poo poo like "how do I uninstall candy crush" and "why the gently caress does candy crush keep reinstalling" and then just pasting whatever the hell the websites tell me to paste into powershell.

Got a massive popup that wouldn't go away until dismissed while watching something in Kodi (presumably because my DPI setting is set for TV) telling me all about how Windows Defender was working perfectly and didn't find any threats the other night.

This is the old systray poo poo that they cleaned up (mostly) with Win7, back to haunt us again.

Three-Phase
Aug 5, 2006

Turbine trip
Reactor trip

As far as forced updates go: security, yes. Everything else a choice and explanations of what the updates do would be nice. Microsoft pulled some really shady crap and that's a permaneant trust-breaker. The little cash grabs (spying and advertisements, advertisements, advertisements!) are also sleazy as hell. Some of it even looks/behaves like malware.

Can you even use Windows 10 without setting up a Microsoft account or whatever?

Regarding the barometer: it makes it easy to accurately track flights of stairs climbed during the day.

Three-Phase fucked around with this message at Mar 28, 2017 around 02:48

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

It's gonna be hilarious when it turns out that running the bulk of the computers on Earth on the exact same monoculture O/S written by a company famous for poor security practices turns out to be a bigger security problem than just having a million different O/S and version combinations. Have we learned nothing from the Cavendish bannana? (No; the answer is no we haven't)

Boiled Water
Apr 5, 2006

YOU ARE A BRAIN
IN A BUNKER


I think linux when not on desktops is cool and good but ok.

Bob Morales
Aug 18, 2006

HYPER-THREADING


revmoo posted:

It's gonna be hilarious when it turns out that running the bulk of the computers on Earth on the exact same monoculture O/S written by a company famous for poor security practices turns out to be a bigger security problem than just having a million different O/S and version combinations. Have we learned nothing from the Cavendish bannana? (No; the answer is no we haven't)

Mac guys have been waiting for a supervirus to shutdown every Windows desktop one dark day, but it's never happened.

Platystemon
Feb 13, 2012



revmoo posted:

It's gonna be hilarious when it turns out that running the bulk of the computers on Earth on the exact same monoculture O/S written by a company famous for poor security practices turns out to be a bigger security problem than just having a million different O/S and version combinations. Have we learned nothing from the Cavendish bannana? (No; the answer is no we haven't)

You mean the Gros Michel banana.

Cavendish hasnít fallen yet.

NihilismNow
Aug 31, 2003


Three-Phase posted:

Can you even use Windows 10 without setting up a Microsoft account or whatever?

Yes you can click "skip this step". It won't stop Microsoft from assigning you a unique advertising ID though

ArgumentatumE.C.T.
Nov 5, 2016


What ads are you guys talking about?

Mr Shiny Pants
Nov 12, 2012


This takes the cake: https://www.tekrevue.com/tip/onedri...-file-explorer/

Heavy Hands
Jan 1, 2006

Helmut
the
Mysterion


~Coxy posted:

Got a massive popup that wouldn't go away until dismissed while watching something in Kodi (presumably because my DPI setting is set for TV) telling me all about how Windows Defender was working perfectly and didn't find any threats the other night.

This is the old systray poo poo that they cleaned up (mostly) with Win7, back to haunt us again.

You can turn those notifications off under Windows Defender settings, just fyi.

Smashing Link
Jul 8, 2003

I'll keep chucking bombs at you til you fall off that ledge!

Trip report: I tried to divorce Apple but my work's IT department wouldn't let me get a Chromebook. "We don't support them because we can't install Antivirus." Went with a MacBook.

eames
May 9, 2009



You should install Ubuntu on it.

metallicaeg
Nov 28, 2005

Evil Red Wings Owner Wario Lemieux Steals Stanley Cup


ArgumentatumE.C.T. posted:

What ads are you guys talking about?

That's what I'm wondering as well. I have two Win10 installs at home and haven't seen any of this nonsense. Couple clicks to get Cortana out of the taskbar and clear out all the goofy tiles in the start menu and it's pretty clean.

Seamonster
Apr 30, 2007

IMMER SIEGREICH


Or gently caress even clicking and just classicshell

jokes
Dec 20, 2012
jokes

metallicaeg posted:

That's what I'm wondering as well. I have two Win10 installs at home and haven't seen any of this nonsense. Couple clicks to get Cortana out of the taskbar and clear out all the goofy tiles in the start menu and it's pretty clean.

You can take like 5, maybe 10 minutes to make it not look like complete poo poo. I hate that Microsoft made their start screen on a clean install look like complete dirt like that. All my clean installs have had a bunch of random candy crush things and minecraft random things added to it, it's very obnoxious.

But then you just uninstall them and delete them and you're good to go.

e: I'll give you this: the Edge and Onedrive "suggestions" are poo poo. I've deleted Onedrive from my everything but it's still not 100% cleared off my computer. It's one of those things they should just ask: "Do you want to use OneDrive?" and if you say no, it doesn't keep trying to get you to use it.

jokes fucked around with this message at Mar 29, 2017 around 22:53

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo


Sometimes when I feel like being a dick I break down a bad design for someone by putting a screenshot into Photoshop, and drawing big red translucent rectangles over top of the areas that actually contain content. It would not look good for the current version of file explorer.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

It seems like 99% of what people complain about in Win10 is because they're too big babies to just turn them off or use some utility to block them. We seem to live in a world now where people assume that the default settings are some kind of dictatorship and not something that can changed.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

GargleBlaster posted:

It seems like 99% of what people complain about in Win10 is because they're too big babies to just turn them off or use some utility to block them. We seem to live in a world now where people assume that the default settings are some kind of dictatorship and not something that can changed.

It's me. I'm the baby that thinks it is absurd that even hosts files entries, manually configured, are not adequate to take control over the property that you have bought and paid for.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

GargleBlaster posted:

It seems like 99% of what people complain about in Win10 is because they're too big babies to just turn them off or use some utility to block them.

Reminder that this person is defending a corporation that recently placeds ads on SOLITAIRE and now charges a monthly fee to have them removed.

nexxai
Jul 17, 2002

quack quack bjork

Fun Shoe

revmoo posted:

Reminder that this person is defending a corporation that recently placeds ads on SOLITAIRE and now charges a monthly fee to have them removed.

How much loving solitaire do you play that ads in the game bother you to the point where you have to post about it?

skull mask mcgee
Nov 14, 2016


GargleBlaster posted:

It seems like 99% of what people complain about in Win10 is because they're too big babies to just turn them off or use some utility to block them. We seem to live in a world now where people assume that the default settings are some kind of dictatorship and not something that can changed.

Wanting sensible defaults is not some some new thing.

revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

nexxai posted:

How much loving solitaire do you play that ads in the game bother you to the point where you have to post about it?

How much $MSFT do you own that it drives you to the point where you have to post about it?

Wrath of the Bitch King
May 11, 2005

Research confirms that black is a color like silver is a color, and that beyond black is clarity.


nexxai posted:

How much loving solitaire do you play that ads in the game bother you to the point where you have to post about it?

lol, have we really reached the point where ~marketing~ needs to be in every aspect of a product? has it become that normalized and acceptable?

I look forward to the day when my car starts up and the central dash unit flashes poo poo about the Taco Bell Doritos tacos.

Wrath of the Bitch King
May 11, 2005

Research confirms that black is a color like silver is a color, and that beyond black is clarity.


it's me, I'm the guy that thinks Candy Crush Saga being a default in an Enterprise product is cool and good

system protocol
Jul 23, 2012



Just hopped in here to tell everyone I was finally able to afford my first Apple product. A brand new iPhone 5s for 150 bucks.

GargleBlaster
Mar 17, 2008

Stupid Narutard

My Android phone shat itself today and needed a factory reset, in a grim reminder of why people pay more for iPhones. I still don't really want to spend twice as much for a device that dictates what I can and cannot do with it though.

revmoo posted:

Reminder that this person is defending a corporation that recently placeds ads on SOLITAIRE and now charges a monthly fee to have them removed.

It took me 10 seconds to google how to get the old Solitaire back: https://windows.gadgethacks.com/how...r-free-0166605/

I'm sorry, but if that's too hard for someone who posts on SH/SC, they deserve to be paying the monthly fee. Or if you feel it justifies installing a server OS on your desktop or spending 4x as much for Apple gear then... have fun I guess?

I'm not defending them as such, but people really make such a fuss over things they can easily change, and if they put 1/100th of the time they spend complaining on an internet message board about the defaults, into flicking a few switches to "off" and running a couple of tools, I just think they'd have a much better, more constructive time of it.

GargleBlaster fucked around with this message at Mar 30, 2017 around 19:55

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

a whole new doctrine

Why the gently caress would you put all this visible janky junk crap in an operating system at all?! Like in what world is that defensible at all, when Samsung adds 1/10 the bloat in their Android versions they get skewered for it. If you buy an OS from anyone else who sells them, Apple, Google, any nix, you don't get a hint of that hot garbage.

shovelbum
Oct 21, 2010

a whole new doctrine

Like solitaire is basically the equivalent of the running error screen T-Rex from chrome, imagine if he tried to sell me Doritos

metallicaeg
Nov 28, 2005

Evil Red Wings Owner Wario Lemieux Steals Stanley Cup


I'm not saying it's ideal, but I'm also not going to go in a fit of neckbeard rage like my fedora is cutting off circulation to my head, when we're talking about a stable and capable operating system given to me by means of a free upgrade.

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revmoo
May 25, 2006

Reverend Moo

GargleBlaster posted:

if they put 1/100th of the time they spend complaining on an internet message board about the defaults, into flicking a few switches to "off" and running a couple of tools, I just think they'd have a much better, more constructive time of it.

Or.... just use an OS that doesnt have those switches that need to be flipped to begin with. Your OS is a piece of poo poo.

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