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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

quote:

⁃ Around 2185, at the height of galactic progress, unaware of the impending Reaper invasion, several species band together for the "Andromeda Initiative".
⁃ 4 Arks, each carrying a different race, are built, housing thousands of individuals to chart a course to Andromeda. The Heleus Cluster is noted as having a significant amount of "Golden Worlds", or planets ripe for life. Each ark is led by a "Pathfinder".

both of these decisions seem really weird.

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Zore posted:

I'm guess ship 4 is Turians, or something off the wall like Hanar, and then there are Krogan hangers on because having an ark ship of Krogan would make zero loving sense.

It also gives them an easy way not to have to model Geth, Quarians, Hanar, Elcor, Volus etc.

Can you really imagine Bioware having the balls/brazen stupidity to not include some of their more interesting and unique species?

"Hey guys, it's Mass Effect but not including half the poo poo you like!"

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Rookersh posted:

Hello, and yes.

The lead writer for this game is the same person that wrote Halo 4. Several key writers that worked on goon favorite parts of ME2 and ME3 quit the company while he was lead, and mentioned it was due to creative differences with him. He also left midway through writing the story, which is never good for story based games because well, jumping writers/plotlines isn't like jumping technical or gameplay directors.

The initial rough drafts of this game were of you being an almost Columbus figure invading the lands of a new species because the Citadel Races wanted more lands. They are presented as sentient/sapient, but just technologically inferior, so it's fair to steal their lands. At one point they were also redskinned, though that seems to have changed thankfully. On the bright side, this seems to have changed to "whoops this galaxy was inhabited! can't go back though!" which.....isn't overtly racist at least?

There has been massive, massive turnover at Bioware since ME2. Almost everyone that has worked on ME2 is gone. Most of the people that worked on ME3 are gone. This game has likely seen multiple revisions as word on the street is it's had a very, very rough time in the oven. This is also not counting the massive turnover on major development staff/project leads this game has seen in that time, which likely isn't good for the project. At one point they lost so many people they had to introduce the DA:I team into the fold to finish the game ( and it sounds like the DA:I guys basically said "Let's make space DA:I, you build forts on every planet and get quests from planet zones." which also might not bode well for the story. ).

This isn't to say this game can't be great ( I'm expecting it to be great gameplaywise, and further flesh out the stronghold/keeps system of DA:I in some neat ways, which'll make it worth the price off that alone. ). But yes, I could 100% see the man who took the Halo lore and said "HUMANS ARE ACTUALLY A GOD SPECIES THAT OWNED ALL OF THE GALAXY IN THE OLD TIMES, AND FOUGHT THE ANCIENT SPECIES AND FORCED THEM TO CREATE THE FLOOD TO STOP THEM." completely not giving a poo poo about the rest of the lore/setting might in fact not give a poo poo about previously established Mass Effect lore. I could see a game that was forced to be rewritten/remade multiple times perhaps having to cut out a lot of extraneous stuff like extra races. I could see a team that had no real connection to ME2/ME3, largely being built from the ground up to make this game because EA knows the property still makes money might not having the same reverence the old team/fans do.

This has also been pushed back from Q1 2016 to Q4 2016 ( with literally no info for either outside of the N7 video last year which was supposed to lead up to the March 2016 release. ), and then finally to Q1 2017. A full years jump from it's initial planned release is uh.

I ain't saying don't get excited here people. I'm excited because I liked 100%ing DA:I even though I didn't like much else, and this'll probably at least scratch that itch. I'm saying maybe temper your expectations a bit, and let the more foolhardy goons preorder this poo poo and fully beat it/give confirmation they pulled it off before jumping fully on the train.

Good Lord, this is really bad news. I liked how Halo 4 resolved the Chief and Cortana story (until Halo 5 ruined it) but the Forerunner stuff was complete dogshit that I found so terrible I actually completely forgot it was in the game. If that's really the case, this does not bode well for ME:A.

I was already on the 'wait' train for Andromeda and this has definitely solidified it.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I still don't understand why everyone would band together for a six-hundred year colonization mission. It seems like a stupid waste of time and money, especially given that the Council didn't give a gently caress about the Reapers.

You'd think they could use the technology from the Andromeda ships to explore and colonise the systems not covered by relays in their own galaxy.

There's no way they weren't originally supposed to launch as a last-ditch doomsday plan. Nothing else makes sense.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
i can't believe her name is loving peebee

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Trast posted:

Pretty sure it's a nickname. :v:

marshmallow creep posted:

Technically, it's not, since that's just her nickname, but I have yet to see anything that clarifies what her actual name is.

Filling out the application for the multiplayer beta forced me to look up my N7 rating, which suggested that I'm... in the top 13% of multiplayer players for ME3? I always though I was solidly middling.

Probably going to be the name on her character sheet and poo poo, though.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Neon Knight posted:

Pretty much. It might not be hard to create a cover reasoning without telling people about the Reapers. Humans are influential now and this initiative is a by-product of their pioneering spirit. If some races need a threat to motivate them just remind them that poo poo like the Geth, Rachni and the Krogan Rebellions happen. Citadel Space is a powder keg and we should put some eggs in a different basket.

And then ship that basket to Antarctica on a one-way trip where you have no way of telling if the eggs even arrive there, and no chance of getting them back fresh if they do.

Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Nov 8, 2016

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Skippy McPants posted:

DA:I felt like the first Mass Effect in a lot of ways, in that it was cool but had a lot of rough edges that needed rounding off.

The NPCs were, for the most part, one of the high points.


Every Bioware RPG has at least one total dub of an NPCs. Ever game gotta have its Jacob.

Jacob was just bland. Sera was really bad.


Megazver posted:

I must admit, the trailer didn't do much for me. I can't quite pin down why, but I suppose it's just... lacking in personality?

Partially that and I also don't think it tells us or shows us anything we don't already know.

When you compare it to the first few ME2 trailers, which showed all sorts of things - the Normandy attack, the Shepard was dead thing, the guy going out the window, heavy weapons, the derelict reaper, and even some stuff like Tali being a party member that they tried to keep secret...

This is just imagery we've already seen (ship explodes, guy breathing), a villain that feels like Saren, an Asari squad member, and a whole bunch of lines that feel like typical trailer talk.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Torrannor posted:

Comparing it to the ME2 trailers that built on the very solid foundation and the mystery of the Reapers is hardly fair. Due to the "reset", there are no real unresolved mysteries that they can hint at being covered in Andromeda.

I think it's pretty fair to compare the first major trailer of the second game in the series to the first major trailer of the fourth (I'm not talking about ME2's phenominal Launch trailer, which would be unfair). They shouldn't need to delve into any unresolved mysteries - indeed, the first ME2 E3 trailer didn't even mention the Reapers! - but it should show us more than what we already know about Andromeda. There was nothing in the Andromeda trailer that made me sit up and take notice because it felt like a mash-up of things that have come before.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Moola posted:

I also prefer Mass Effect 2 EDI

much more interesting than sexy Data

i like how ME3 cheapened the relationship between joker and EDI by making her a sexy robot

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

marshmallow creep posted:

Should have had edi climb into a geth platform and gone from there.

would've made more sense than introducing a hitherto unknown brand of humanoid robot

i'd also ramble about how dumb it is that sci-fi does the whole 'aliens/robots are just people' thing when they also do the 'but you can only really love them if they're sexy' thing

but ultimately, edi and joker as portrayed in ME2 just worked a lot better than ME3. same as the geth. it's no surprise that they were both done by l'etoile because he seemed to really want to approach the idea of synthetic life from a more nuanced perspective than doing a pair of pinocchio stories.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Moola posted:

totally, the way their relationship grew over ME2 was subtle and interesting

Then they gave her massive robo-tits and ughhhh

bingo. it was a neat way of demonstrating that edi was basically a person but could also be counted on to work as a loyal member of the crew, just like everyone else. i think it was neat that she was the ship and joker had always been attached to the normandy to the extent that he was prepared to die with it in the intro sequence. and i think when one of the people in the relationship has a crippling case of boneitis, you really don't need to have a sexy physical aspect to it. the pair of them obviously deeply care for and respect each other, which is more than enough. it'd be like if the ai in her, samantha, got a sexy robot body. it's just cheap and it shunts love into lust.

when people said that edi was going to get a cerberus body, i assumed it was going to be like the robots we had seen. like, edi in a YMIR mech or something. something that gave her a bit of physicality but still maintained the weirdness of EDI being a computer program.

but then she got this one-off robot body design that is so incredibly boring and fan-servicey that they even left on the modelled cameltoe of the miranda model they based the robot design off.

they could have at least fully committed to the terminator idea and made her more obviously mechanical and industrial given that they basically borrowed the classic 'explosion burns all the flesh off the robot' scene during the climax of the mars chase

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

quote:

At the same time, because this is the fresh start for the series, I don't think the team wants to overwhelm players with a bunch of weirdo aliens

THE CYCLE REPEATS ITSELF MORE TIMES THAN YOU CAN FATHOM

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Trast posted:

I'm guessing the writers are going into this with the assumption there will be sequels. That is one thing that really seemed to gently caress up the first three games. Mass Effect One is a big sensation and the writers can't come up with anything so they squat over a galaxy map and out plops Cerberus and Jesus Shepard.

I think it's pretty clear that EA basically slapped Bioware around and told them to resuscitate the franchise by any means necessary after the debacle of ME3.

It's how we end up with such a weird idea for a sequel that invites questions like:

Arcsquad12 posted:

So when the Reapers invade the Milky Way and steal the plans for the Andromeda Initiative, will they send a ship to pursue them to another Galaxy? They've already established that the Reapers are extremely fast moving through Dark Space, so they could probably catch up in the 600 year time span.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Trast posted:

Sending an massive exhibition to another galaxy isn't that unusual a story in sci-fi. They've even had a few Star Trek pilots written with that in mind. If you look at the Mass Effect universe as being pretty much explored and populated trying to find a new place to fill up makes sense. Story wise it lets them make up a lot of new stuff while bringing enough familiar elements to keep people comfortable.

But the Mass Effect galaxy isn't. There are inactive Relays, whole sections of space that can't be reached because there's no way to get there.

But let's just do a massive construction project and fire it off on a six-hundred year journey, because...

EA is just trying to keep Mass Effect alive and as far away from The End as possible. I am not convinced that setting this in a galaxy completely removed from the normal one, which will either have nothing in common or strange palette swaps of things we already know, is the best idea. However, I'm also not sure what idea they could go with given the sheer insanity of ME3's ending and the response to it.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Jeza posted:

the storm over ME3's ending was ridiculous and overblown, and was essentially fine. especially compared to something like say, deus ex: hr. and skyrim is a dull reskin of oblivion full of weird potato face people and horrible gamebryo everything. people who like it a lot have terrible opinions on games, and life.

real adult opinions. :can:

:sad:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
The best part of the ending was how Mac Walters said the galaxy was supposed to be a wasteland post ME3.

What a weird thing to do.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Khanstant posted:

I avoided spoilers before I started playing but I couldn't help but hear people freaking out about the ending. I definitely expected the ending to coming down to picking a button for the ending scene you wanted, because that's how it works in every videogame which choices. So I figured it was something else wrong, like, you're the reapers the whole time or I don't know, I just figured it must be something truly offensively bad or something. When I got to the end, I was really excited that there wasn't really any choice for my Shephard staying in character, it felt like the logical solution and conclusion to what I'd worked for thus far. I never even save-reloaded to see the other endings, gently caress em, wouldn't make sense or be good anyway. I was genuinely surprised and excited to see that was an option, I hadn't considered it or thought it was on the table, because I was expecting something terrible to match the intensity of the online anger about it.

I guess some people wanted more in-depth conclusion to every character or something but I felt like I got a ton of great closure throughout the rest of the game. After I bless the galaxy with a new level of existence-

A new level of existence: putting green circuitry overlay over people.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Khanstant posted:

Where did you get this from? That's actually something I really like conceptually. I love when evil acts turn out to be benevolent acts that you're just inconvenienced yb and/or are part of the problem.

I believe it came out of Weekes' posts after ME3, or maybe Karpyshyn between ME2 and ME3.

It's what Gianna Parasini's meeting in ME2 was related to, as well as Veetor's comments about dark energy and such, even Harbinger's perspective on Reapering as a form of religious transcendence.

It's an interesting idea, even if it is not wholly original (The Shivans from Freespace do the whole 'to destroy is to preserve' thing) but it is definitely cool.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Eej posted:

Still cooler than the Reaper story we got which was basically the same thing as Star Control 3, itself not a very good game.

Oh, gently caress me, it really is. Uggggggh!

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Levantine posted:

I've been playing the trilogy recently and I made it up to ME3 yesterday. The game feels really good to play at a mechanical level, but everything else feels like a huge step down from ME2. The writing out of the gate is just so hackneyed and overdramatic. ME2 in comparison felt like events had gravity, people didn't spend too much time talking about everything and moping and being dramtic, even though everyone knew they might die. ME3 is just so... maudlin I guess? Holy poo poo the dreams! I forgot about the dreams! Everyone talks way too much. I find conversations go on too long without my input and Shepherd just kind of is who he is without my input. ME2 handled the talk/gameplay ratio really well. Missions didn't go on too long and everything was just really snappy.

At least the gameplay really shines in Multiplayer!

Yeah. There are a whole lot of places in ME3 where the earlier games would have a choice, even just a fake dialogue choice, but ME3 just has Shepard say a thing. There's a few awkward points where it feels like conversations were cut down, too, and fairly late in the development process.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Zzulu posted:

ME2 is far from perfect

I felt like the collectors came outta nowhere and I would have preferred more reaper stuff to set everything up for ME3. The terminator baby was shiiiiiiit

Collecting the team and the suicide mission was cool and good though, but at the end of ME2 it felt like you had just been on a side adventure because the great big looming doomsday fuckery of the reapers you learned of in ME1 is still there at the end of ME2 with not much having changed

You ruined their last chance backup plan and destroyed the agents in the galaxy they had been trying to hide.

This forced them to slowboat from the galactic void and, assuming some basic things like 'they actually needed their plan in the first place', it allowed the player to think that there was a narrative reason to confronting them head on and winning.

But then ME3 said that they could have just not bothered with any of that.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

OtherworldlyInvader posted:

*concepts dozens of unique and appropriately alien looking heads, while maintaining readability for human emotions*

"That's cool and all but how about we instead we do like a pretty basic human face with idk spooky white eyes or something and maybe some bone bits sticking out??? drat, looks great! We fuckin' nailed this whole design processes thing."

My exact thought.

"We wanted to make some really unique aliens, like nothing you could see in the other galaxy."

Then that.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
It is important to consider the empathy of the giant space robots who grafted a human onto a batarian to serve as a gun-arm.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

FronzelNeekburm posted:

I think that GameInformer article stumbles by:
1. Saying "here's the new alien race in Andromeda!" and implying there aren't a half dozen other weird new aliens
2. Showing off a bunch of crazy designs and then saying, "Oh, but actually it is Rock Head Man."

Just do neither of those, show off the final version of the alien, and leave the rest for the art book. Maybe show off those flying bug aliens from the trailer or something.

Two hours into ME1, you could meet elcor, volus, hanar, asari, salarians, turians, quarians, maybe krogan? Oh, and the Keepers. If ME:A has the same depth, it'll be fine, but they keep talking about how you're a human on the human ship going to human world, and also there's a spunky asari sidekick. If it's an exploration game about the unknown, sell people on all the mysterious new stuff they'll find, not on the old stuff from three games ago.

Problem is, I think ME:A is like The Force Awakens where a significant fraction of it is basically quelling the terrors of a fanbase who got burnt hard by the previous entry in the series.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Poops Mcgoots posted:

Never. Colonist/ruthless Shep 4 lyfe

Colonist/Sole Survivor/LI dies with the bomb on Virmire.

:smith:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
can someone tali me what you're all quarian about :shepface:

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Trast posted:

"Initiate docking maneuvers."

CMON TARS

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'
I have no doubt that you were originally supposed to meet Legion at the Normandy crash site or something like it.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Kibayasu posted:

Wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason was falling victim to the Xbox 360 needing to swap to a second disc.

That's a lot of the reason why ME2 turned out the way it did, actually. IIRC, you were supposed to get all the dossiers to start with then, after you did any three, it went to Horizon. Almost all the party members have lines for the Omega missions (Mordin, Garrus) and for Horizon.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Lt. Danger posted:

The geth were originally going to resurrect Shepard in ME2.

I think the idea kinda breaks down when you start to think of the actual details. Cerberus was the better choice.

I'd like to hear your thoughts. My initial thinking on is is that the Geth make more sense.

I mean, one, they've had direct exposure to the Reapers, so, they can understand the magnitude of the threat and I can see 'Rebuild Shepard-Commander' working in their minds. Two, their technology potentially fits a Project Lazarus analog in there a bit easier than Cerberus.

I just don't know how you'd, well, implement it because Geth don't really have personalities and I can't imagine an action-packed opening sequence where you meet your first two squad members working with a Geth facility as a basis.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

DancingShade posted:

Probably. That does sound interesting as hell though.

Would also explain why you're so unique instead of the eventual ME:3 answer of "just a corpse reanimated with reaper cybernetics and a VI brain". I mean you basically assumed that anyway but it was such a narrative flat note when you find out because it gets nothing more than a couple brief lines of dialogue after you interact with a computer terminal during a mission.

I was surprised when they didn't go with 'Reaper tech was involved with bringing Shepard back to life'. But, poo poo, if we're going to mention narrative flat notes in ME3 then we'd be here for a long, long time.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Dan Didio posted:

Alpha Protocol's dialogue system was cool because literally the first or second conversation you have, your boss explains that Thorton will want to cloak his true intentions and only say what he thinks someone will want to hear in his role as a superspy and yet people still complained about how their Thorton wasn't 'consistent' and seemed like a self-interested sociopath.

I really liked the Recruit/Veteran options you'd get on your first and repeat playthroughs respectively.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Beefstew posted:

Witcher 3 was an okay game that had a lot of flaws that I've kinda come to hate due to the weird cult that blossomed around it. See also: Undertale.

I think I cut myself on this post.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Lt. Danger posted:

Witcher 3 is good but I think I like Witcher 2 better. Both beat all of the Dragon Ages.


I haven't read the books but I understand this was sort of the original intention with Geralt - a send-up of Elric-alike moody broody anti-heroes with special snowflake hair and special snowflake fighting styles.

He is. He's moody, grumpy and no one really likes him. The only reason he has so much sex is because he's disease-free and infertile. In the games, though, you don't really get his kind of hyperbolic, holier-than-thou, angsty inner monologue though.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

exquisite tea posted:

The armor is its own dialogue wheel option that pops up at the same point that the Paragon/Renegade speech checks do. I think besides convincing Saren to kill himself, it's the highest persuasion check in the game.

I'm not sure. I think the most difficult check was on Feros, the guy who takes hostages. I think you need the full 12 points in either one, as opposed to Wrex and Saren where I think you only need 10. I don't think you can do the guy on Feros without starting a new game plus.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Hedrigall posted:

Never played a Witcher game, can I start with #3?

I did and it's fine.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

I just really want something to come out that excites me for this game.

Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Goddamn, the picture they went with.

#8 :chloe:

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Milkfred E. Moore
Aug 27, 2006

'It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism.'

Zzulu posted:

There was nothing wrong with the dream sequences

it was the choice to make some random child the focus of them

Why not make old dead crewmembers the focus instead? That might have made more sense

It would. You would even have the Virmire casualty for the first dream, Mordin for the second (and I think Wrex, if Mordin didn't do it?) and Legion for the third (unless Legion lived, in which case you'd have Tali).

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