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Honestly the thing that is most important to me is how low the turnout was compared to 08 and 12, in both columns. Fair or not, I don't think anyone in the DNC or campaign was honest with themselves about just how disliked Hillary is. The electorate hated her as much as they hated Trump. Given what they perceive as two poo poo choices, people are gonna either stay home, or give the edge to the bomb throwers and "change" candidate.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:56
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Augus posted:So will the 2020 dem primaries be done Republican style with 9 different candidates now or what? rofl how would they even get 9 candidates
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Nov 10, 2016 02:56
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Also lets accept the fact that PPACA failed. Yeah PPACA does a bunch of awesome poo poo that needed to happen and it'll suck real bad when those things are gone, but it's core goal - to make healthcare more affordable - failed. High deductible plans with double digit premium increases are a failure for everyone except insurance companies.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:56
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didn't read the thread but gently caress you venom snake
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Nov 10, 2016 02:57
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Venom Snake posted:It depends on how much progressives are willing to stomach if it gets economic progress. I mean, ideally the right amount of racism is 'none' but people seem to think focusing on class issues necessarily entails loving over minorities, while focusing on minority issues must necessarily entail loving over whites. its a drat shame we can only ever care about one thing at a time.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:56
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ThndrShk2k posted:Hot Autopsy Take: Hot Reflection Take: We are the reflection of the Media As the media is a reflection of ourselves Bouncing forever into the Post-Reality gaze of the Infinity Mirror plane. We are all holograms.  The Truthful One's Gaze Locks With The Untruthful One.  You can hear the whispers pick up and swirl around your ears as your eyes bleed upon this horror until finally a voice eeks out, as clear as the mirrors themselves "Bullsh*t!"
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Nov 10, 2016 02:57
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Thanks for the autopsy post. Confirms a lot of what I suspected. Seems like Robby Mook was worshipping at the feet of the supercomputer and its polling projections and ignoring the more nebulous warning signs. They were chasing rainbows like Arizona or white college voters or white women and they let black turnout in the Rust Belt cities crater. Total disaster. No message, completely rudderless.
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Nov 10, 2016 02:58
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Porpoise With A Purpose posted:Are we as a forum going to do anything? I know something awful has historically been a source for a lot of old memes and we still are from time to time, maybe its time we put that power to good use? I don't know. The biggest political movement this forum had lately was the Bernie thread and I dunno if those players are up for it again. Personally we should all do our best to volunteer and campaign. Tatsuta Age posted:didn't read the thread but gently caress you venom snake 
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Nov 10, 2016 03:00
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lol michael moore was insanely right about everything in this dumbass post http://michaelmoore.com/trumpwillwin/
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Nov 10, 2016 02:59
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Augus posted:So will the 2020 dem primaries be done Republican style with 9 different candidates now or what? I'd be surprised if more than 3 Dem candidates emerge. Whose gonna have the money? Someone needs to start now to groom donors and I just don't know who that's gonna be.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:00
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http://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/796482684629483520 isnt that literally exactly why they lost
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Nov 10, 2016 02:59
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realtalk: do not let the people who want to go in on racism win. you won't be able to out-racist the party of trump and you're telling your actual core (the expanding part of your coalition) to stay home as they have no place in america. plus you know, reinforcing white supremacy. people who want to do it will probably wrap it up with talk about how it's wrong to dismiss whites as 'just racist', but that's exactly what they'll be doing when saying that getting their vote relies on racism, however they choose to code it.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:01
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Not a Step posted:I mean, ideally the right amount of racism is 'none' but people seem to think focusing on class issues necessarily entails loving over minorities, while focusing on minority issues must necessarily entail loving over whites. its a drat shame we can only ever care about one thing at a time. Minorities don't have class status, silly. Their incomes are determined by background racism.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:02
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Jonny 290 posted:http://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/796482684629483520 what does a guy named alain de botton think of all of this guys
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Nov 10, 2016 03:01
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anime was right posted:she would have probably been a great president, but she is bombed the goddamn interview when asked about gasp on her resume. all while donald trump lied in big flashy bulletpoints. this is a rly good way of putting it i think i think you might even be downplaying the sexism angle. think about the way trump was able to bully and bluster his way through the entire election, flouting a different tradition every week- the first female presidential candidate couldn't possibly have done anything like that, no matter who it was. hillary spent the entire election playing by rules that her opponent didn't have to and sexism is undeniably one driver behind that. it doesnt help that hillary's formative years as a politician happened in a much more sexist era. the next woman who runs for president will have way more options for how to portray herself and handle scandals. A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Also lets accept the fact that PPACA failed. Yeah PPACA does a bunch of awesome poo poo that needed to happen and it'll suck real bad when those things are gone, but it's core goal - to make healthcare more affordable - failed. High deductible plans with double digit premium increases are a failure for everyone except insurance companies. IIRC with the subsidies, poor and middle-income people pay much less under PPACA than they would've beforehand, and that would still be true after the price hikes this year. it's just that it has a high sticker price.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:01
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Venom Snake posted:The biggest political movement this forum had lately was the Bernie thread and I dunno if those players are up for it again. Personally we should all do our best to volunteer and campaign. have somethingawful rally around tammy duckworth imo
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Nov 10, 2016 03:01
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Karl Barks posted:what does a guy named alain de botton think of all of this guys Alain de Botton is literally the worst populist philosopher. The United Kingdom apologises for him.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:02
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i didnt even click in butquote:Nothing is ever properly unbearable, not least because we always retain access to the best escape route. The Stoic philosophers of Ancient Rome, those poor souls agitated beyond compare by the antics of their hysterical, thin-skinned murderous Emperors, were known to calm themselves down by holding up their veins to the light and calling out “Freedom!” — knowing it could, if it came to that, all be over in minutes. socialism now
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Nov 10, 2016 03:03
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Peel posted:realtalk: do not let the people who want to go in on racism win. you won't be able to out-racist the party of trump and you're telling your actual core (the expanding part of your coalition) to stay home as they have no place in america. plus you know, reinforcing white supremacy. Nobody is seriously going to consider pursuing a racist platform, except the unprincipled wonk idiots who got us into this mess in the first place.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:03
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Not a Step posted:Is it gonna be against minorities or doubling down against whites is the real question The only democratic revival that would be worth anything would be one that rekindles class consciousness. On another note, why didn't she control outlets that were making GBS threads all over Sanders supporters or at least tell them they weren't helping? Did she think that letting them run the Bernie Bros meme would kill that movement faster while not saying anything herself would protect her from backlash? Or did she genuinely not have any control?
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Nov 10, 2016 03:04
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The fact that any polls had trump leading on "the economy" should be the focus You can't tell people who are pissed off about an issue that, actually, things are getting better (even if it's true). Pushing any sort of action plan other than continuing the same would have had a better effect. The lesson to take away from trump is, if people tell you they're worried about some specific topic, just tell them you're gonna do something about it, not that it's not an issue
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Nov 10, 2016 03:04
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Jonny 290 posted:http://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/796482684629483520 Whats important is that no one ever learn anything, and to remain unbearably smug even after its been made painfully apparent you've lost the narrative entirely
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Nov 10, 2016 03:05
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Cubey posted:rofl how would they even get 9 candidates I dunno, a narcoleptic brain surgeon who wrote a book about how he used to cut motherfuckers in the 5th grade emerged to run Republican this year, you never know who will catch the scent of political opportunity.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:07
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I think it's fair to say that the Secretary of State who got us into the worst Foreign Policy debacle of the Obama administration, and wanted to do even worse in Syria probably wouldn't have been a great president.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:07
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Thanks for your insight and honesty VS
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Nov 10, 2016 03:06
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Plank Walker posted:The fact that any polls had trump leading on "the economy" should be the focus but but...america is great because it's good!!!
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Nov 10, 2016 03:07
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also don't let the Serious people preen about the foolish poors and their ignorance. their bungling brought us the iraq war, then the great recession, then austerity, and ultimately trump. they told themselves self-serving myths while voting to gently caress people over with obvious drivel, exactly like the trumpists they deride. their policy expertise just means their drivel is presented in elaborate working papers that make them feel good rather than the incoherent rambling of a trump speech it deserves.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:06
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Also lets accept the fact that PPACA failed. Yeah PPACA does a bunch of awesome poo poo that needed to happen and it'll suck real bad when those things are gone, but it's core goal - to make healthcare more affordable - failed. High deductible plans with double digit premium increases are a failure for everyone except insurance companies. Actually the goal, as presented by a lot of folks here, was simply to up the number of people with insurance. That it remained unaffordable was irrelevant to them, because that number went up, and any negative experiences with it were to be not only ignored, but snidely derided and even questioned.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:08
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I know this is off-topic and probably inflammatory, but I think you have to give credit to Venom. He was around last night, through all that poo poo. Where is Epic High Five and A Winner Is Jew and about five other turd burglars that laughed down at anyone that called out Hillary as being a weak candidate? Rats off a sinking ship, gone before the waters had even gotten rough, and probably trying to duck their ban. poo poo on and ridicule anyone not in their group think bubble and when the poo poo hits the fan, poof. Gone.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:09
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Adventure Pigeon posted:The only democratic revival that would be worth anything would be one that rekindles class consciousness. Hillary is a vengeful soul who absolutely could not stand up to any criticism from the left. She pulled the same ObamaBros poo poo she pulled in 2008 to discredit Bernie's supporters as racist sexist white men (or poor misguided women who would soon burn in hell) then kept that fire stoked because gently caress Bernie for running against her and gently caress his supporters for not falling in line.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:10
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just ignore race. talk about class. talk about income brackets, shut up about 'poor whites' and 'poor blacks' because that is dogwhistling anyways trump's anti-hispanic bent was a cookie on top, meant to fill out the plate of "I'll Get Your Job At The Ball Bearing Factory Back From The Chinese" with a bit of "And If I Can't Do That, You Can Have His Job For Fuckin' Sure, You Start Monday". he had more of a contingency plan for poor people than hillary who said "Uh, i guess your kids can go to college cheaper"
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Nov 10, 2016 03:10
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Plank Walker posted:You can't tell people who are pissed off about an issue that, actually, things are getting better (even if it's true). It was absolutely not true. It was a recovery on paper, because the increased profit margins of corporate & finance capital don't actually affect the material conditions of the poor. In fact, it makes it worse when they have to accept work in a field where they earn less.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:09
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Flubby posted:I know this is off-topic and probably inflammatory, but I think you have to give credit to Venom. He was around last night, through all that poo poo. Where is Epic High Five and A Winner Is Jew and about five other turd burglars that laughed down at anyone that called out Hillary as being a weak candidate? Rats off a sinking ship, gone before the waters had even gotten rough, and probably trying to duck their ban. poo poo on and ridicule anyone not in their group think bubble and when the poo poo hits the fan, poof. Gone. epic high five was posting like yesterday dude
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Nov 10, 2016 03:11
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anime was right posted:i am not editing any of that because i am on three hours of sleep. i can't stand this loving thinking. i've heard it multiple times today. she lost b/c she's a terrible loving status quo warhawk candidate who is historically unlikeable and represents the worst aspects of american politics
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Nov 10, 2016 03:12
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present a unified populist vision to people moving forward. highlight that it is the forces of global capitalism that have failed them, that the jobs they want, high paying manufacturing jobs, are never coming back, that unless they accept a hellfucked environment and $1.00 a day wages they will never have a textile factory in south carolina again. highlight how Trump is a loving liar, how he promised them something he can't deliver, how he is NOT their voice, he just lies to them for power and prestige. hammer hard on how he and the republicans are failing them. use the mass support for minimum wage increases (an increase to $12 an hour passed in loving arizona, goddamn) to highlight how the republicans want to take that away from them, and they'll have to fight with vote and union to stop them. show them that Trump is the very jetsetting global elite that is loving them and that it is not the workers of the developing world who are ruining them, those are just poor souls even more hosed by the elite than they. give them data and info in a digestible form about the Koch brothers, the capitalists, the bankers and multinational global elites, who live in the united states, but are not their saviors or their allies. tell them that coal is dead globally, the price is never going to rise, that you may have work but it will be for below-poverty wages with little to no safety. offer them hope from that in government programs to retrain, and if they can't retrain, a GMI to let them live comfortably. sell it as coming from higher taxes on the us-based global capitalist that is ruining them. do that and you'll get back the people who split for Trump, you'll wide the wave and gently caress it, you will goddamn try. also, if they trot out protectionism, point to how protectionist loving Japan is, and how they've been hellfucked for decades now, with no end in sight. basically the democratic party is loving doomed because they will not do this. KiteAuraan has issued a correction as of 03:15 on Nov 10, 2016 |
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Nov 10, 2016 03:12
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Oh Snapple! posted:Actually the goal, as presented by a lot of folks here, was simply to up the number of people with insurance. That it remained unaffordable was irrelevant to them, because that number went up, and any negative experiences with it were to be not only ignored, but snidely derided and even questioned. To be fair, the ACA *did* help a lot of people. It did some good! But it was also horribly broken and caused a lot of harm at the same time. Hillary emphasized the former, Bernie emphasized the latter, and Hillary used the ACA to paint Bernie as either heartless or a befuddled old man who would take away health care and leave nothing but pixie dust in its wake. And people believed that, because they were not very smart (or just terrified about losing access to insurance they had no other means of getting). It was another case of Hillary being completely blind to the pain of rural white America and trying to assure everyone that the system that was devastating their income for no real benefit was, in fact, totally fine and good.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:15
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comedyblissoption posted:hillary didnt lose b/c of misogyny its part of the reason she lost and why she made some of the choices she did. and i think it affected her career much more than it did anyone at the voting booth imo. but it was still a handicap, and without it she probably coulda won. not because a bunch of dudes are voting against a woman, but because it informed and affected literally every decision she made in her entire life. she could have won by being a better candidate too, tho.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:16
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Guy DeBorgore posted:epic high five was posting like yesterday dude My bad. I shouldn't be calling names out like that anyway. It just gets my goat. Anyone with a different opinion had to endure that crap for months.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:17
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Oh Snapple! posted:Actually the goal, as presented by a lot of folks here, was simply to up the number of people with insurance. That it remained unaffordable was irrelevant to them, because that number went up, and any negative experiences with it were to be not only ignored, but snidely derided and even questioned. Dude when Obamacare is gone a lot of people are going to die straight up. One of my closest friends is only alive today because of it. Do not poo poo talk it. Flubby posted:I know this is off-topic and probably inflammatory, but I think you have to give credit to Venom. He was around last night, through all that poo poo. Where is Epic High Five and A Winner Is Jew and about five other turd burglars that laughed down at anyone that called out Hillary as being a weak candidate? Rats off a sinking ship, gone before the waters had even gotten rough, and probably trying to duck their ban. poo poo on and ridicule anyone not in their group think bubble and when the poo poo hits the fan, poof. Gone. All the work Iv done is nothing but piss in the wind If I give up.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:18
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obamacare is better than not obamacare, straight up.
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Nov 10, 2016 03:17
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