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Thoguh posted:Allow me to put on my best neoliberal voice. Destructive Creativity is actually good for the long run! If those insurance people hadn't had such high cost services then they wouldn't be out of the job!
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May 31, 2017 03:16
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the alternative to single payer/uhc being "iunno, poors just eat eachother in a modern survival of the fittest i guess?? idrk"
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May 31, 2017 03:19
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The Jacobin piece is good and it explicitly argues for single payer as a moral necessity.
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May 31, 2017 03:19
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wait, no, ill just forego buying an s8, there we go, healthcare paid for, whats the issue, libs
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May 31, 2017 03:20
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the suck zone
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May 31, 2017 03:23
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rather than just posting "the suck zone" and grinning to myself I'm going to post a critique: I think people ITT are too quick to turn on each other and say harsh/mean things guys
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May 31, 2017 03:25
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Here's the new Democratic platformquote:IT'S TOTAL loving BULLSHIT.
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May 31, 2017 03:27
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Against the spirit of the Suck Zone I'll be sincere. Here is a useful post on Ken Ward Jr's excellent blog, "Coal Tattoo," lamenting that Obama announced the Power Plus Plan so late in his presidency. The plan was, according to Ward, a detailed and credible policy mix for reinvestment in Appalachian communities hurt by coal's decline. Unfortunately it went nowhere. Anyway I think it would be a good place to start to look for policy prescriptions that might aid communities that will be crushed by the collapse of health insurance rackets. I seem to recall reading that North Carolina implemented a successful program to assist tobacco workers hurt by the policy-induced decline of their trade but it was years and years ago and I don't have a link on hand, perhaps someone with knowledge of the subject would be kind enough to share their thoughts and information.
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May 31, 2017 03:40
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GalacticAcid posted:I seem to recall reading that North Carolina implemented a successful program to assist tobacco workers hurt by the policy-induced decline of their trade but it was years and years ago and I don't have a link on hand, perhaps someone with knowledge of the subject would be kind enough to share their thoughts and information. you talking about the golden leaf foundation, because lol no the decline of the tobacco industry basically destroyed the eastern half of the state and it's never really recovered
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May 31, 2017 04:31
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Word. Well, like I said, it was years ago that I read it. Still, assessing the failures of a program like that would be necessary to formulate a better one to replace insurance-dependent communities.
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May 31, 2017 04:40
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lmao "we cant do the right thing because we might lose votes" been the (losing) dem mantra for decades peak WJ post
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May 31, 2017 04:48
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got any sevens posted:lmao it's really amazing how dedicated some posters itt are to not reading article: medicare for all is a moral imperative and we have to make sure there are jobs for those negatively impacted by new efficiencies extremely bad suck zone poster: lmao looks like yet another anti-singlepayer hit job
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May 31, 2017 04:51
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bad dems have a bad habit of posting poo poo as part of their bad faith arguments you say? well i never
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May 31, 2017 05:06
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*sucking in the deepest breath of all time* the suck zone
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May 31, 2017 05:12
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Concerned Citizen posted:it's really amazing how dedicated some posters itt are to not reading tbh i think the article is overstating the jobs impact, insurance companies will continue to exist (in a much reduced fashion) and the government is probably going to need to hire a decent chunk of those laid off to manage the new system. but yeah we'll need programs to focus on those that are effected like maybe putting the new government centers that run the system into these towns that are heavily insurance employees
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May 31, 2017 05:16
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pretty sure that giving healthcare to the people who dont have it now will also create more doctor and nursing jobs which are much better jobs than makework medical billing jobs its a good article though and i think whiskeyjuvenile posted it in good faith
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May 31, 2017 05:59
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GalacticAcid posted:*sucking in the deepest breath of all time*
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May 31, 2017 05:59
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Shear Modulus posted:pretty sure that giving healthcare to the people who dont have it now will also create more doctor and nursing jobs which are much better jobs than makework medical billing jobs It's supposed to have a huge spillover effect into other industries which would experience booms as well due to more people getting quality healthcare, the reduction in costs, people quitting their job to go freelance, etc.
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May 31, 2017 06:20
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The other huge boon of single payer is that the number one expense of the vaunted ~Small Businesses~, employees, would basically be cut in half. If you take any business and you cut their number one expense in half, you are going to have a shitload of growth. A lot of that will be able to absorb the glorified data-entry jobs of the current insurance industry.
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May 31, 2017 06:57
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The other huge boon of single payer is that the number one expense of the vaunted ~Small Businesses~, employees, would basically be cut in half. If you take any business and you cut their number one expense in half, you are going to have a shitload of growth. A lot of that will be able to absorb the glorified data-entry jobs of the current insurance industry. well that assumes the vaunted small businesses face no additional taxes - something that isn't true in bernie's proposal.
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May 31, 2017 07:14
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GalacticAcid posted:The Jacobin piece is good Lol
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May 31, 2017 07:17
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:The other huge boon of single payer is that the number one expense of the vaunted ~Small Businesses~, employees, would basically be cut in half. If you take any business and you cut their number one expense in half, you are going to have a shitload of growth. A lot of that will be able to absorb the glorified data-entry jobs of the current insurance industry. Small business owners care more about owning people than making money
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May 31, 2017 07:18
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zegermans posted:Small business owners care more about owning people than making money I would argue all business owners feel that way, not just the small ones.
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May 31, 2017 08:43
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GalacticAcid posted:*sucking in the deepest breath of all time*
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May 31, 2017 08:50
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whiskey juvenile in another world posted:don't you realize how many people the payday loan industry employs? we can't get rid of payday loans!!
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May 31, 2017 09:01
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Welcome to.... the Suck Zone heres your complementary democrat sponsored crazy straw glasses for you to succ out of as you chill in Cedar Rapids!
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May 31, 2017 09:32
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i want some pizza
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May 31, 2017 12:07
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If we run away from something good like single payer because poo poo's complicated then we don't deserve good things. If we gently caress up doing something good because we like to pretend poo poo's not complicated, same thing.
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May 31, 2017 12:37
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Concerned Citizen posted:it's really amazing how dedicated some posters itt are to not reading no, any discussion at all about potential practical difficulties or problems of any single-payer implementation is just neoliberal scum trying to come up with excuses for opposing single-payer and protecting the health insurance industry that's what life is like...in the Suck Zone...zone...zone *creepy music plays* ate poo poo on live tv posted:The other huge boon of single payer is that the number one expense of the vaunted ~Small Businesses~, employees, would basically be cut in half. If you take any business and you cut their number one expense in half, you are going to have a shitload of growth. A lot of that will be able to absorb the glorified data-entry jobs of the current insurance industry. do you realize this is the exact same argument businesses use to argue for tax cuts, low minimum wages, and so on? it's also horseshit. supply-side economics don't have any effect when the demand side is this hosed
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May 31, 2017 13:08
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Concerned Citizen posted:well that assumes the vaunted small businesses face no additional taxes - something that isn't true in bernie's proposal. even with taxes, their labor/healthcare expenses would go down significantly.
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May 31, 2017 13:39
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For Vox Dot Com Founder, a Politics of Rhetoric Over Policy https://twitter.com/voxdotcom/status/869859756021661702
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May 31, 2017 13:41
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Main Paineframe posted:
tax cuts aren't comparable to single-payer anymore then means-tested deferred loan tax credits for entrepreneurs is comparable to free college.
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May 31, 2017 13:47
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ate poo poo on live tv posted:tax cuts aren't comparable to single-payer anymore then means-tested deferred loan tax credits for entrepreneurs is comparable to free college. the core argument of "it reduces expenses for business, therefore business will have more money which creates more economic growth and helps everyone" is the same old neoliberal supply-side trickle-down garbage, even if you try to frame it in support of single-payer
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May 31, 2017 14:00
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Main Paineframe posted:the core argument of "it reduces expenses for business, therefore business will have more money which creates more economic growth and helps everyone" is the same old neoliberal supply-side trickle-down garbage, even if you try to frame it in support of single-payer Even if this is true there's no downside using slashing major business expenses as a selling point when selling single payer to the general populace
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May 31, 2017 14:09
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Business Gorillas posted:Even if this is true there's no downside using slashing major business expenses as a selling point when selling single payer to the general populace 
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May 31, 2017 14:23
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loquacius posted:rather than just posting "the suck zone" and grinning to myself I'm going to post a critique: I think people ITT are too quick to turn on each other and say harsh/mean things also i dont get why they keep talking about narwhals
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May 31, 2017 14:38
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Joementum posted:For Vox Dot Com Founder, a Politics of Rhetoric Over Policy quote:Cory Booker and the politics of love i'm sorry if it sounds corncobby
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May 31, 2017 14:45
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love hasn't accomplished half of what hate has over the millenia
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May 31, 2017 14:50
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Main Paineframe posted:the core argument of "it reduces expenses for business, therefore business will have more money which creates more economic growth and helps everyone" is the same old neoliberal supply-side trickle-down garbage, even if you try to frame it in support of single-payer its true enough in small business edge cases that those who worship the platonic ideal of a small business owner / entrepreneur and like to put themselves in the shoes of such a powerful business mogul can recognize how much easier things will be for them. never underestimate the willingness of temporarily embarrassed millionaires to grease their path 'back' to greatness but it would actually help in the actual real world. the company i work for is a small business and wants to provide good coverage to the employees and the only way they can really do that in the dumpster fire of todays markets is a significant subsidy to every employee that gets health insurance through the company. makes my health insurance free to me which owns but the company could really use the five figgies a month on poo poo we need. and since we're constantly shorthanded, we would almost certainly create An Whole Job (or maybe two!) out of just that money as well as spending it on poo poo we need but haven't been able to afford ~assuming nothing else in the world changes~
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May 31, 2017 14:57
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May 31, 2017 15:09
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