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mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

I haven't really seen any debate anywhere for a while now. It's pretty clear to everyone across the board that Fultz is #1, then its unclear on the order that follows with Jackson, Smith, Ball, etc.

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straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



Someone irl was aggressively arguing with me that Ball was better than Fultz because Fultz's TS% was 56.5% which is "below average for an NBA of prospect" (which is not true).

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011


Slow work day so I'm reading about some of the late-draft international talent and came across this guy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/michael-fusek

7'5" and 220lbs.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



Paul Zuvella posted:

Slow work day so I'm reading about some of the late-draft international talent and came across this guy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/michael-fusek

7'5" and 220lbs.
lollll that guy is a foot taller than me and fifteen pounds heavier Jesus Christ

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


At least he's heavier than that Romanian kid with the worm neck

Spacebump
Dec 23, 2003

Nowitzness

People that pay attention to CBB. What is wrong with Tacko Fall? I would think a 7 foot 6' tall man would at least be in the 2nd round of mock drafts.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...-road-relevancy

Spacebump fucked around with this message at Jan 18, 2017 around 20:56

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011


Spacebump posted:

People that pay attention to CFB. What is wrong with Tacko Fall? I would think a 7 foot 6' tall man would at least be in the 2nd round of mock drafts.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...-road-relevancy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAsvdxLvk0g

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



lmao that still

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

straight up brolic posted:

Someone irl was aggressively arguing with me that Ball was better than Fultz because Fultz's TS% was 56.5% which is "below average for an NBA of prospect" (which is not true).

I think the only college stats hill I'm prepared to die on is pg/non scoring wing steals/rebounds/wingspan coefficient

Anyway, I've been watching MSU because the Pistons make me sick. Miles Bridges seems to be moving up mocks, as yet another undersized MSU player who's really good. He kind ofmakes me think of a much more explosive Jae Crowder, they have very similar body tpyes, but without the super intense defensive instincts. He knocks down threes like nothing, he finishes with ease. He could have trouble with NBA length at sf, but he's such a good shooter that he should have space. There are a lot of holes in his game and he isn't really a tenacious defender, assuming so is just MSU magical thinking. He has Potential baby and he grew up in FFFFFflint Town so I assume he's mentally tough, even if he went to basketball prep school in West Virginia for 2 years

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at Jan 18, 2017 around 21:18

paternity suitor
Aug 2, 2016



Paul Zuvella posted:

Slow work day so I'm reading about some of the late-draft international talent and came across this guy:

http://www.nbadraft.net/players/michael-fusek

7'5" and 220lbs.

That dude needs to put on, like 50 pounds, but Kristaps was 7'3" 230 when he came out

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010


Spacebump posted:

People that pay attention to CBB. What is wrong with Tacko Fall? I would think a 7 foot 6' tall man would at least be in the 2nd round of mock drafts.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...-road-relevancy

Most insanely tall dudes are as slow as they are large and don't really have any basketball skills beyond "stand in the paint and stick your arms up on defense." There's a reason Sim Bhullar and Mamadou N'Diaye are D-Leaguers who went undrafted.

Spacebump
Dec 23, 2003

Nowitzness

Henchman of Santa posted:

Most insanely tall dudes are as slow as they are large and don't really have any basketball skills beyond "stand in the paint and stick your arms up on defense." There's a reason Sim Bhullar and Mamadou N'Diaye are D-Leaguers who went undrafted.

I get that but sometimes it doesn't stop teams from drafting those guys. (Like Satnam Singh) Him being slow and not having many skills makes sense. That espn article overhyped him. After I made the post I checked his stats.

It made this quote hilarious.
"He's the most dominant player in college basketball, point blank, period," UCF assistant coach Jamill Jones said. "Whoever the best center is, if you put him in front of Tacko, he won't be the best center. If they had to play against one another, they can't physically stop Tacko from doing what he wants to do right now."

I should have just looked at what he did vs Tulane.

french toast
Jul 21, 2001
I EAT 3 CANADIAN CHILDREN EACH DAY!

I watched Villanova play them earlier this year. UCF had to play zone with him planted directly under the basket. The Villanova guards would just penetrate and shoot a little jumper or floater at the top of the paint over him repeatedly because he couldn't get out to contest the shot.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Read my lips:
No new tortoises




Grimey Drawer

Spacebump posted:

I get that but sometimes it doesn't stop teams from drafting those guys. (Like Satnam Singh) Him being slow and not having many skills makes sense. That espn article overhyped him. After I made the post I checked his stats.

It made this quote hilarious.
"He's the most dominant player in college basketball, point blank, period," UCF assistant coach Jamill Jones said. "Whoever the best center is, if you put him in front of Tacko, he won't be the best center. If they had to play against one another, they can't physically stop Tacko from doing what he wants to do right now."

I should have just looked at what he did vs Tulane.

13, 10 and 2.4 on 80% shooting (what) isn't too bad

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



Fultz is absurd

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



Dwyane Wade





Markelle Fultz



DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!

How can he shoot 42% on 4 and half threes a game, but only shoot 67% from the line? That's either really weird or really troubling inasmuch as it makes me wonder if that long range shooting is repeatable.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Josh Hart plays really big for 6'5". He has decent form on his shot. He looked good in the break and when he attacked the basket, and had a couple crisp passes but he seemed to absolutely refuse to orchestrate the offense or be involved in any two man basketball which is a problem if he ends up somewhere that wants to play him at point. Strong on the ball defense was interesting to see in a college guard.

Tyler Lyndon has an amazing shot with a high release. He's not just a jump shooter either, he has a lot of nifty moves and a very nice touch around the hoop. drat he has awful footwork with the ball in his hand, though. He dribbles like pre-steroids Ryan Kelly. Doesn't seem to understand the concept of rebounding. The announcers said he plays three positions but he really only looked comfortable defensively guarding the three (which probably would be his position in the NBA if he wasn't such a bad dribbler); there is some potential maybe as a rim protector but he is missing fundamentals such as "raising your hands above your head." The announcers harping on him needing another year in college had a point due to so many awful fundamentals, but that shot might be pretty tempting to NBA teams.

There was an hour of Kansas on my DVR after the Syracuse/UNC game so I got a preview of Josh Jackson and man that guy is so athletic and makes some pretty passes off of drives. He got pulled twice in that hour for mistakes, and while I don't like that style of coaching for young guys they were pretty boneheaded plays.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



DeimosRising posted:

How can he shoot 42% on 4 and half threes a game, but only shoot 67% from the line? That's either really weird or really troubling inasmuch as it makes me wonder if that long range shooting is repeatable.
shot 65.5% before conference play, shooting 72.3% since conference play started on an almost equal sample. I think it was just jitters or something

Rick posted:

Josh Hart plays really big for 6'5". He has decent form on his shot. He looked good in the break and when he attacked the basket, and had a couple crisp passes but he seemed to absolutely refuse to orchestrate the offense or be involved in any two man basketball which is a problem if he ends up somewhere that wants to play him at point. Strong on the ball defense was interesting to see in a college guard.
he's going to be a really good role player in the NBA

straight up brolic fucked around with this message at Jan 19, 2017 around 14:18

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

It's this one thing

DeimosRising posted:

How can he shoot 42% on 4 and half threes a game, but only shoot 67% from the line? That's either really weird or really troubling inasmuch as it makes me wonder if that long range shooting is repeatable.

Free throw shooting form tends to be totally separate from a jump shot form, so besides jitters, if he's still working out kinks on one, it might not show up on the other.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Declan MacManus posted:

Free throw shooting form tends to be totally separate from a jump shot form, so besides jitters, if he's still working out kinks on one, it might not show up on the other.

They tend to correlate really well outside of very rare cases like Bruce Bowen. Low FT% but high 3 pt% is a pretty good sign that someone's 3 pt% might be a sample size fluke that won't carry over (good recent example is Justise Winslow). I think college FT% actually has a higher corellation with NBA 3 pt% just because the sample is larger

E: the best formula people have found for projecting NBA shooting is some combination of college FT% and 3 point attempts as far I know, but maybe there's been a recent breakthrough there I missed

MourningView fucked around with this message at Jan 20, 2017 around 18:23

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

Also? Amplitude.


MourningView posted:

They tend to correlate really well outside of very rare cases like Bruce Bowen. Low FT% but high 3 pt% is a pretty good sign that someone's 3 pt% might be a sample size fluke that won't carry over (good recent example is Justise Winslow). I think college FT% actually has a higher corellation with NBA 3 pt% just because the sample is higher.

I hope you appreciate how much more of a nerd you sound like these days.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


Lockback posted:

I hope you appreciate how much more of a nerd you sound like these days.

I willing served as a unpaid internet janitor for an increasingly obscure website for like almost a decade I was never very cool

Redgrendel2001
Sep 1, 2006
you literally think a person saying their NBA team of choice being better than the fucking 76ers is a 'schtick'

a literal thing you think.


OG Anuoby will have knee surgery and is out for the season.

Nissin Cup Nudist
Sep 3, 2011


Someone tell me about Lauri Markkanen

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



He's incredibly skilled and does a little bit of everything, but he's kind of stiff and looks vaguely like a smaller Brook lopez.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Nissin Cup Nudist posted:

Someone tell me about Lauri Markkanen

He's a really tall shooter who has been impressive internationally for a while despite being only 19, he's agile and plays defense well even against smaller guards. He looks competent when he attacks the basket, has a way of scoring on drives that look like they're going to be goofy, but I'm not sure that will work in the NBA. Close-in-size or more muscular centers really toss him around, although that's less of a negative in the modern NBA where everyone's going small or stretch.

I'm pretty sure he'd be a top ten prospect most years anyway, but the fact that this is such a PG/wing draft may mean he'll go generally higher than he might most years.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

I'm watching this Arizona/UCLA game right now and honestly I just don't see how Ball gets a shot off in the NBA. The release is so awkward, slow and low that he's going to get non-stop blocked by NBA athletes closing out, let alone guys that are actually guarding him. That shot seems like such an incredible risk for a guy you're taking 3-4.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?


The thing is he's really really good at everything else, so even if he has to rework his shot you can still get value out of him. He's super athletic and by far the best passer in the draft.

IcePhoenix
Sep 18, 2005

You're tense, I'm calm. You apply excessive force, I
*snap*
OHHHH HECKUMS


MourningView posted:

The thing is he's really really good at everything else, so even if he has to rework his shot you can still get value out of him. He's super athletic and by far the best passer in the draft.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



MourningView posted:

The thing is he's really really good at everything else, so even if he has to rework his shot you can still get value out of him. He's super athletic and by far the best passer in the draft.
That's why the bigger red flag for me is that he already tried to fix his shot and it didn't take. He'll be really good either way. Seems like Jason Kidd 2.0

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

MourningView posted:

The thing is he's really really good at everything else, so even if he has to rework his shot you can still get value out of him. He's super athletic and by far the best passer in the draft.

I'm not saying you can't get value out of him, I'm saying he seems to be projected too high to me for someone who looks like they may have serious problems shooting at the NBA level, especially given the premium placed on shooting and spacing in the current NBA.

I guess I may be underrating his other tools but that shot is so loving ugly.

Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

Verhy old and rocky thoughts


Plaster Town Cop

I really like Hartenstein more than Markannen if we're talking nordic euros in the draft. He really does have a dirk esque fadeway jumper and scoop/flip that I don't think NBA players will be able to bother, he's really big, much bigger than MArkannen, and he can handle the ball a bit. He's not as good a shooter as Markannen at this level, but I think he'll have a much easier time getting clean looks in the NBA.

How's TJ Leaf matching up with Markannen? If they are matching up at all.

I'm changing my mind a bit about Miles Bridges. He might be a 6'6 power forward unless he improves his handle and finds a way to move faster with the ball in his hands. His 3p shooting numbers are good but when I watch college teams defend the three point line, the contests are often just pathetic. His .625 ft% makes me worry since he mainly gets to the rim by bashing guys out of the way with his shoulders, and he doesn't get up high once he's there, he's got about Jae Crowder strength and athleticism but without the nimble feet. He really needs to polish his game if he wants to be more than a role player in the NBA.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

Dejan Bimble posted:

I really like Hartenstein more than Markannen if we're talking nordic euros in the draft. He really does have a dirk esque fadeway jumper and scoop/flip that I don't think NBA players will be able to bother, he's really big, much bigger than MArkannen, and he can handle the ball a bit. He's not as good a shooter as Markannen at this level, but I think he'll have a much easier time getting clean looks in the NBA.

How's TJ Leaf matching up with Markannen? If they are matching up at all.

I'm changing my mind a bit about Miles Bridges. He might be a 6'6 power forward unless he improves his handle and finds a way to move faster with the ball in his hands. His 3p shooting numbers are good but when I watch college teams defend the three point line, the contests are often just pathetic. His .625 ft% makes me worry since he mainly gets to the rim by bashing guys out of the way with his shoulders, and he doesn't get up high once he's there, he's got about Jae Crowder strength and athleticism but without the nimble feet. He really needs to polish his game if he wants to be more than a role player in the NBA.

Markannen at times beat Leaf the way that good offense almost always beats good defense, but I thought Leaf was defensively competitive in the matchup. Another possible issue of concern for Markannen is that when the game was fast-paced he might as well not have been out there, although he was super valuable in the halfcourt, of course.

Defending Markannen ate up a lot of Leaf's attention, but I was impressed with his rim protection when Markannen was off the floor. Of course I've learned that this is something that doesn't always transfer to the NBA but he was really good at altering shots, and his positioning was mostly good and he recovered well often when it wasn't. They didn't really go to him a ton on offense this game, but Arizona is really big. What little they showed looked positive to me.

Ball's speed and skill is great, and man, weaving passes through traffic 40 feet away is fun. Obviously the form of the shot is a problem but it's effective enough that I almost wonder if you have to see him against NBA competition first to see if he can get it off against NBA talent (which is a fair point Mikeraskol raises).

Rick fucked around with this message at Jan 22, 2017 around 02:42

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011


MourningView posted:

The thing is he's really really good at everything else, so even if he has to rework his shot you can still get value out of him. He's super athletic and by far the best passer in the draft.

He can still hit shots if he is not guarded. That's the reason why people like Rubio and MCW are bad. Ball will hit shots you leave him open for.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012



honest lonzo can flat out ball imo

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit



Markkanen was like perfect in that game

Lockback
Sep 2, 2006

Also? Amplitude.


Paul Zuvella posted:

He can still hit shots if he is not guarded. That's the reason why people like Rubio and MCW are bad. Ball will hit shots you leave him open for.

Rubio hits open shots too. Rubio is bad at finishing at the rim if there is a hint of defense. If Ball can finish then he's already ahead of guys like MCW and Rubio at that.

mikeraskol
May 3, 2006

Oh yeah. I was killing you.

Ball can absolutely finish. It's just the shooting motion, all the other aspects of his offensive game are pretty great.

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Rick
Feb 23, 2004
And now the whole nation - pulpit and all - will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open.

I was a bit confused as to why Johnathan Motley was ranked so low, and I think one thing I have finally accepted is the red flag of age. He had a monster all around game and knocked Texas's bigs off the floor, including Jarret Allen. Is that because he's a 21 year old who has had three years to work on his body? Like he's bigger than most college guys, but he's not NBA big. All things I guess draft watchers have to consider while watching a guy who just was absolutely dominant.

Jarrett Allen…I just didn't see 'it' but I guess in a game where someone is in constant foul trouble is useless so I'll try and find another.

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