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Dejan Bimble
Mar 24, 2008

we're all black friends
Plaster Town Cop

Jota posted:

Pretty crazy that it's likely that #1 pick two years in a row will be a college player from a team that missed the tournament. I watched UCLA-Washington tonight just to see Ball and Fultz. Now I haven't watched Washington a ton, but that team around Fultz is an absolute tire fire. Should lead to some interesting takes about him not being a winner but he's so nice.

It makes me really want to know what college basketball recruiting is like. The guys are going to get millions soon anyway, so even if payoffs are involved there has to be something more. Callipari has the easy "all the best players will be here so scouts will watch every game" and Duke has "hey you can play on the various non team USA international teams and practice against NBA players"

What does Lorenzo Romar do at UW. He seems great at getting local Washington players but he's recruited top out of state guys too. All I see is that he's a charismatic guy that players like.

We know that Ben Simmons people had a prior relationship with LSU.

How did Dennis Smith jr pick NC state over the other NC colleges or other big programs?

quote:

On the first day they were permitted to, Gottfried and Wolfpack assistant Orlando Early visited Smith on the grounds of his high school, where a chartered helicopter delivered the coaches from out of a clear blue sky. More important than the attention the gesture garnered was its outcome: two months later, Smith committed to play for Gottfried.
So did the whirlybird seal the deal?

Jonathan Isaac went to the weird IMG academy in florida and is from florida, so I assume their assistant coaches had a lot of chances to talk to him.

Is it just about being a good salesman and selling yourself to some teenage boy and his parents?

Illegal gifts just can't be that meaningful for the top recruits, because they're on the cusp of millions.

If I was a basketball prospect I'd go soemwhere where I'd be featured but my flaws would be covered up, and my high school and aau coaches might be able to steer me to places with rosters like that. Although AAU coaches are pretty easy to bribe anecdotally.

Tom Izzo seems to recruit tweeners with tough upbringings as all his key players, I see a recruiting philosophy. Although they do their best to go for the top guys, a lot of whom are born in michigan but serve out 2 or 3 years of prep school in wva or virginia. I don't really blame those guys for getting the gently caress away from the places they grew up.

Dejan Bimble fucked around with this message at 06:39 on Feb 5, 2017

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Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

Jota posted:

Pretty crazy that it's likely that #1 pick two years in a row will be a college player from a team that missed the tournament. I watched UCLA-Washington tonight just to see Ball and Fultz. Now I haven't watched Washington a ton, but that team around Fultz is an absolute tire fire. Should lead to some interesting takes about him not being a winner but he's so nice.

I really wanted to see him go against Ball but it wasn't on here )=

He's definitely getting some of this flack but if anything it seems more criticism is going towards the coaching at Washington. Which is interesting because I thought LSU last year had much worse coaching and people just blamed Simmons. Although maybe it's easier to point at the coaching at Washington when they have all these NBA players going through their program but they never do anything.

Of what I've seen, though, he really is the best prospect of the draft. On top of all the highlights I've seen, I'm glad I was able to see the Arizona-Washington game because he frankly had a pretty bad game by his standards there, and yet I still feel comfortable saying he's #1. Even when he's off, and well defended, he finds a way to score and impact the game.

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

Dejan Bimble posted:


Illegal gifts just can't be that meaningful for the top recruits, because they're on the cusp of millions.


Not so sure I agree with this. A year+ from when a guy starts getting promises from scouts to when he'd get his first NBA paycheck is a long time. By this point those guys are also starting to get pressure from family and friends about providing. It's hard to pass up cash or even just favorable treatment when you have your uncle who raised you talking about how tough it is to make ends meet.

I'd also imagine most of these guys are being (correctly) coached not to assume a top pick or even a pick in the NBA draft. There are plenty of guys who were top recruits who flamed out in college and dropped position/out of the first round.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Lockback posted:

Not so sure I agree with this. A year+ from when a guy starts getting promises from scouts to when he'd get his first NBA paycheck is a long time. By this point those guys are also starting to get pressure from family and friends about providing. It's hard to pass up cash or even just favorable treatment when you have your uncle who raised you talking about how tough it is to make ends meet.

I'd also imagine most of these guys are being (correctly) coached not to assume a top pick or even a pick in the NBA draft. There are plenty of guys who were top recruits who flamed out in college and dropped position/out of the first round.

At one point Isaiah Austin was considered a potential #1 draft pick, and Andrew Harrison was considered the top PG prospect for 2014 and a probable top 3 pick. There really isn't any way to tell

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Declan MacManus posted:

At one point Isaiah Austin was considered a potential #1 draft pick, and Andrew Harrison was considered the top PG prospect for 2014 and a probable top 3 pick. There really isn't any way to tell
Every crazy wingspan guy is just one Marfan's diagnosis away from being out of the league.

Metapod
Mar 18, 2012
Lamelo Ball scored 92 points today goddamn this family can hoop

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

straight up brolic posted:

Every crazy wingspan guy is just one Marfan's diagnosis away from being out of the league.

Rudy Gobert is another guy who dropped after being projected real high

But yeah he and Walter Tavares probably have their hearts working overtime just to get blood into their fingers

Khagan
Aug 8, 2012

Words cannot describe just how terrible Vietnamese are.

Metapod posted:

Lamelo Ball scored 92 points today goddamn this family can hoop

The highlights of that game were mostly him standing inside the opposition half for easy layups.

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011

Khagan posted:

The highlights of that game were mostly him standing inside the opposition half for easy layups.

A future Sacramento King.

DeimosRising
Oct 17, 2005

¡Hola SEA!


Declan MacManus posted:

At one point Isaiah Austin was considered a potential #1 draft pick, and Andrew Harrison was considered the top PG prospect for 2014 and a probable top 3 pick. There really isn't any way to tell

I distinctly remember years early jokes about the Shabazz Muhammad Sweepstakes, Ricky Rubio Sweepstakes, Harrison Barnes Sweepstakes, and Nerlens Noel Sweepstakes. I wonder how many of those kind of guys really would go #1 if high school guys could still declare (obviously not the situation with Rubio)

Henchman of Santa
Aug 21, 2010
Nerlens might have gone #1 if he hadn't gotten hurt. Although the Cavs were picking so who knows.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Noel and Barnes for sure would have gone #1 out of high school.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Then again James McAdoo would also likely have gone top 3 and that would have been awful for whoever picked him

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?

Henchman of Santa posted:

Nerlens might have gone #1 if he hadn't gotten hurt. Although the Cavs were picking so who knows.

He probably would have but no one was especially thrilled with it. Everyone hated that draft.

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011

MourningView posted:

He probably would have but no one was especially thrilled with it. Everyone hated that draft.

Mason Plumlee is the 3rd best player in that draft by winshare.

The Glumslinger
Sep 24, 2008

Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?


Hair Elf
I still can't believe the Cavs took Anthony Bennet #1. I mean, its not like the expected #1 Oladipo has turned into a superstar, but man, they were like the only people on earth who saw something in Bennett

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

I think eventually he can get his rebounding and space defense to net neutral. Maybe . Not impossible. It would take a lot of development time . He's already average at rim protection last I checked the numbers.

Spring Break My Heart
Feb 15, 2012

The Glumslinger posted:

I still can't believe the Cavs took Anthony Bennet #1. I mean, its not like the expected #1 Oladipo has turned into a superstar, but man, they were like the only people on earth who saw something in Bennett
Hasn't dokmo said the opposite?

Paul Zuvella
Dec 7, 2011

Spring Break My Heart posted:

Hasn't dokmo said the opposite?

If I remember correctly, Mocks at the time had him all over the place, anywhere from top 3 to in the low 10s.

Ty1990
Apr 22, 2011

Dennis Smith vs Jonathan Isaac tonight. 7pm EST ESPN2.

NickRoweFillea
Sep 27, 2012

doin thangs
Anthony Bennett is a bigger bust, player-wise, than Greg Oden ever was

Doltos
Dec 28, 2005

🤌🤌🤌
Anthony Bennett's rookie campaign was one of the most insulting pieces of poo poo a player getting paid by a NBA team ever put together. He just didn't even try. At all. He was somehow out of shape. He wouldn't go for rebounds, wouldn't set picks, wouldn't try driving with the ball at all.

Apparently he had a bad shoulder injury in college that's still bothering him but everyone says the same poo poo no matter where he goes: he just doesn't give a gently caress.

wandler20
Nov 13, 2002

How many Championships?

Ty1990 posted:

Dennis Smith vs Jonathan Isaac tonight. 7pm EST ESPN2.

I'm hyped. Go Noles.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

I remember seeing Bennett play hard for like 4 minutes in summer league once and he looked good . Then he started walking down the court.

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Jonathan Isaac seems like a guy that's not good that people will talk themselves into and Dennis Smith Jr. seems like he's the opposite

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Although I'm not sure about Smith's speed. He's being successfully pressed at the college level which I always think is a red flag

Ty1990
Apr 22, 2011

Smith is insanely athletic but we've only seen glimpses of it so far. People speculate it might be because of his ACL tear last year and he's just not all the way back yet, which seems really plausible.

I love me some Jonathan Isaac though.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.

straight up brolic posted:

Jonathan Isaac seems like a guy that's not good that people will talk themselves into and Dennis Smith Jr. seems like he's the opposite

I haven't watched tonight's game yet (although it's on my DVR hopefully) but this was my exact opinion on Isaac the first two times I saw him. There's so much hype for him though I decided to go for a third dip.

MourningView
Sep 2, 2006


Is this Heaven?

euphronius posted:

I remember seeing Bennett play hard for like 4 minutes in summer league once and he looked good . Then he started walking down the court.

I was at that game, he had like two dunks and a three and he Internet inexplicably decided that he was good, it was really weird.

I think Issac is fine, but I LOVE Smith

Lockback
Sep 3, 2006

All days are nights to see till I see thee; and nights bright days when dreams do show me thee.

The Glumslinger posted:

I still can't believe the Cavs took Anthony Bennet #1. I mean, its not like the expected #1 Oladipo has turned into a superstar, but man, they were like the only people on earth who saw something in Bennett

If you subscribe to tiers, Bennett was in the same tier as the rest of the top guys, the problem was that tier was like the 3rd tier in a normal draft, there were 0 top-flight prospects. I think most people liked Noel, Porter and Oladipo generally better, but it really wasn't a shocking pick, just an unusual one.

I mean, a big strong low-block guy who can stretch his shot out to the 3 point line sure as hell seems like a valuable guy, even if he has some red flags. There ended up being some nice value later on in that draft, but that was an awful draft at the top, for sure. There was sorta no good #1 pick.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
Yeah, actually I see what the hype on Issac is about after tonight's game. What really does it for me is that quick release, I don't care about the post moves and he's not shooting from NBA three range but man the ball gets out of his hand quick with whatever he does. I"m not really ready to move him top 3 which I swear to you I have seen people do, but, I get a little more what people are talking about.

Dennis Smith . . . well, the positive of tonight was that despite the fact he was mostly shut down, he still was really smart with the ball, got it up the court, and didn't panic and really only took one bad shot against the coverage. But, while I'm not ready to talk myself out of him yet (still haven't seen anything from anyone else that pushes him below third PG which is where I had him when I was just seeing highlights), and I still think he's probably the best real "playmaker" in the draft, I am concerned. He ate Fox and Monk's lunch in single coverage a couple weeks ago, but when Duke responded with the double when he put the ball down around the perimeter, he just wasn't able to do anything. Tonight against a Florida State team that's all length and strength (shout out to Michael Ojo) and made it their mission to take him out of the game, well the stat line about says it.

---

I'm starting to really believe in Jarret Allen. I do feel at times he is trying to "showcase his game," doing things he has no business doing. But man, this guy really can rebound and his shot form is promising, and he just in general looks like a better basketball player every time I see him. I want to see what an NBA team really good at developing players can do with him.

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

What college point guards do well against a double from a strong team.
Not snark .

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

euphronius posted:

What college point guards do well against a double from a strong team.
Not snark .
Fultz does it every game

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Any other of the top ones? That does seems like a good casual metric.

Rick
Feb 23, 2004
When I was 17, my father was so stupid, I didn't want to be seen with him in public. When I was 24, I was amazed at how much the old man had learned in just 7 years.
You don't really see it a lot with anyone other than Fultz this season because most teams have other weapons and defenses can't count on rim protection and defense to rotate fast enough to stop the second attack. Washington is bad and in my opinion NC State is worse (although scouts seem to peg their bigs as second round prospects . . . I don't see it at all).

Just about every NBA team is going to use some form of double team during a game. Like the plus for Smith is that he'll probably get drafted on to a team with a better offensive weapon (not because Smith is bad just because the other guy will have more experience) and will be very unlikely to be the focus of defenses. He's still going to have guys cutting off his drives though so it's at least worth considering.

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Anthony Bennett was really really athletic in college and looked like he could hit threes and rebound. He was a talented college player and while it was a reach, it wasn't LaRue Martin

e: he put up 16/8 in less than 30 minutes a game and hit 38% of his threes

Declan MacManus
Sep 1, 2011

damn i'm really in this bitch

Also Smith owns you can't tell me nothin

straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

Lonzo Ball has started off this game looking Michael Carter Williams with shooting (albeit weird shooting)-esque

euphronius
Feb 18, 2009

Mcw who can shoot is good

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straight up brolic
Jan 31, 2007

After all, I was nice in ball,
Came to practice weed scented
Report card like the speed limit

:homebrew::homebrew::homebrew:

euphronius posted:

Mcw who can shoot is good
I wouldn't use a top 5 pick on him. MCW isn't a reliable shot away from being a good NBA player.

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